Could Haye ever Win?

Haye got well beat by Vlad Klit's efficient safety first boxing style.

The toe excuse was a bit pathetic but no doubt meant he couldn't be 100% especially with his explosive style (then again what boxer is 100% when they enter the ring?)

Lets say Booth negotiates a rematch. Haye at 100% - could he beat Vlad? Or do you think Vlad would steam roller him knowing he's already beaten him?

No, assuming you mean Wlad. Cue derogatory banter from Trussman

Can only see an even more convincing win for Wladimir if a rematch ever happened, getting Haye out of there inside the distance this time. Injured toe or no injured toe, I think Wladimir will be feeling one hundred percent confident that Haye has nothing to seriously trouble him, and I'd expect a less cautious showing from the Ukranian, particularly as the fight went on. Think he'd be letting that right cross go a lot more often.

I think it was clear to see that Haye doesn't fancy taking all that many risks when faced with genuine Heavyweight punching power, either. Wladimir's simply too good from a technical aspect to fall for the same 'in and out' tactic which Valuev fell for, so I honestly don't see any way that Haye could reverse the result. I doubt it will ever happen (why should it?) but if it did, Klitschko by stoppage after nine or ten fairly comfortable rounds.

I struggle to see a scenario where he wins. End of the day with a vulnerable havy there is always the hail mary shot landing but saw nothing in the first fight to suggest Haye really knows how to manoevure himself into position to have a chance of landing the big shot. Add into this the obvious difference each will bring into a rematch ring Chris has already alluded to and have to feel were the undeserved or unwarranted rematch to happen Haye loses easily as comfortably, the only question mark is if he makes it to the final bell.

Like the others at this moment I cant see how Haye would win.

I was one who thought Haye would win their first fight based on him making Wlad miss all night, combined with him keeping busy and trying to impose himself on Wlad.

Haye was making Wlad miss a lot but wasn't doing anything to push him back apart from the odd pot shot in between rounds. He would have to up his work rate 2/3 times to stand a chance of beating him. Can he do it? I'm not sure, plus the few times he did attack Wlad did back off nicely before coming back in to apply his jab.

I still believe have has the speed and power to trouble him. Just dont think he's big enough at the weight, and more importantly, have to workrate to follow it though.

Would love him to prove me wrong.

Haye knocks him out within 12, easily. Klitschko was wobbled in the 12th round by a shot that he couldnt get leverage on because of his toe. Grabbed on for life. Let alone the fact he grabbed every two minutes of the fight. Haye at 100% KO's him in style

d260005p wrote:Haye knocks him out within 12, easily. Klitschko was wobbled in the 12th round by a shot that he couldnt get leverage on because of his toe. Grabbed on for life. Let alone the fact he grabbed every two minutes of the fight. Haye at 100% KO's him in style

The toe injury obviously didn't make things any easier for Haye, but if you truly believe that a broken little toe was enough to account for the massive difference between your fantasy scenario and the one we actually saw when they fought, then you're severely deluded.

I fly against the general consesus that the last fight was boring and Haye didn't fight the right fight or wasn't brave enough.

Thought it was an entertaining bout to be honest with Haye doing everything in his power to win the fight (the toe excuse was lame though).

Trouble is, I think Haye has found his level in terms of ability and can only see a rematch being a replay of the first fight, for a lot less money. Wlad has pretty much ruled this out as a possibility anyway so reckon Haye should stick to his plan to retire with his millions before 31.

Haye would fight the same fight, with the same tactics with exactly the same result, unless Wlad knocks him out first. Fight will never happen. There is nothing in it from Wlad and he gets more satisfaction from ignoring Haye as being insignificant. Haye's only route back is to fight three other notable heavy weights including Povetkin and to win them all in style.

bhb001 wrote:Haye would fight the same fight, with the same tactics with exactly the same result, unless Wlad knocks him out first. Fight will never happen. There is nothing in it from Wlad and he gets more satisfaction from ignoring Haye as being insignificant. Haye's only route back is to fight three other notable heavy weights including Povetkin and to win them all in style.

Haye is a chancer who goes for the jackpot every time so can't see him wanting to take the long hard road back. BTW, I thought he was supposed to make a decision on whether he would retire after three weeks after the Wlad fight???? Haven't heard anything yet????

Got to agree bnb, think with his poor one sided showing in the first Haye has removed both of his negotiating tools, the belt and the PPV revenue, struggle to imagine without a few wins against decent contenders under his belts Haye will persuade quite so many to shell out for the PPV second time round.

From what I have read, the older Klitschko seems pretty happy to entertain defending his WBC title against Haye. Haye would potentially only need a keep busy fight and a willingness to take a pay cut.

Wlad will also be without a live opponent now as by all accounts he had the winner of Fury v Chisora set in his sights. Fury however has ruled out fighting Wlad in the near future and with Hellenius, Dimitrenko, Povetkin, Adamek and Chagaev all with fights lined up, and Solis injured then its hard to see many viable candidates.

Haye could potentially find himself a candidate again by default.

Haye has already pants it from a Vitali fight with his 'I aint got no beef with Vitali' line.
Wlad and his team seemed very disappointed with the points victory, if (and he hasn't got the right to even ask after his disgraceful performance) Wlad and Haye fight again, Wlad stops him.

Colonial Lion wrote:From what I have read, the older Klitschko seems pretty happy to entertain defending his WBC title against Haye. Haye would potentially only need a keep busy fight and a willingness to take a pay cut.

Vitali is only playing with him. He has no interest in picking over his brother's left overs. Cue comments about Wlad's ex-girlfriend

bhb001 wrote:

Colonial Lion wrote:From what I have read, the older Klitschko seems pretty happy to entertain defending his WBC title against Haye. Haye would potentially only need a keep busy fight and a willingness to take a pay cut.

Vitali is only playing with him. He has no interest in picking over his brother's left overs. Cue comments about Wlad's ex-girlfriend

I wouldnt neccessarily say so. I think Vitali would like to fight him on a personal basis.

If the division was packed with contenders it may be a different story, but what few challengers were in there have been unceremoniously dealt with and The fact that both brothers operate as a single entity means the division is cleared out almost twice as quickly.

Think Vitali is just taunting Haye to be honest. It's a nothing fight for him. Imagaine losing to your kid brother's sloppy seconds!

Vitali I think takes care of Adamek (hopefully cos I can't stand Adamek, find him to be highly overrated!) and then retires.

alma wrote:

Super D Boon wrote:Think Vitali is just taunting Haye to be honest. It's a nothing fight for him. Imagaine losing to your kid brother's sloppy seconds!

Vitali I think takes care of Adamek (hopefully cos I can't stand Adamek, find him to be highly overrated!) and then retires.

If that's the case, what price Haye talking his way into a WBC contest so he can then claim to be a two time Heavweight champion?

Well to do say that he'd actually have to win the fight, which could be a spanner in the works.

Is it me or am I the only one a bit unsure about Vitali v Adamek?? I think Vitali is getting old and why the hell is the fight in Poland??! If Adamek is still vertical after the 12 could a robbery be on the cards??

Super D Boon wrote:Is it me or am I the only one a bit unsure about Vitali v Adamek?? I think Vitali is getting old and why the hell is the fight in Poland??! If Adamek is still vertical after the 12 could a robbery be on the cards??

Stranger things have happened, but it probably is just you in this case. Another case of a good biggun beating a good smallun, in my opinion. easy fight for Vitali

bhb001 wrote:

Super D Boon wrote:Is it me or am I the only one a bit unsure about Vitali v Adamek?? I think Vitali is getting old and why the hell is the fight in Poland??! If Adamek is still vertical after the 12 could a robbery be on the cards??

Stranger things have happened, but it probably is just you in this case. Another case of a good biggun beating a good smallun, in my opinion. easy fight for Vitali

Thanks bhb I feel a bit more reassured now.

Super D Boon wrote:Is it me or am I the only one a bit unsure about Vitali v Adamek?? I think Vitali is getting old and why the hell is the fight in Poland??! If Adamek is still vertical after the 12 could a robbery be on the cards??

Both Haye and Adamek are not heavyweights. The old adage, a good big man beats a good small man. Hayes looses everytime to Wlad IMO, toe or no toe.

adamek has a much better workrate than haye but less power, he has a decent chin but imo vitali would be too much for any heavyweight in the world right now, and i think cruiserweights who step up are already at a distinct disadvantage

88Chris05 wrote:

d260005p wrote:Haye knocks him out within 12, easily. Klitschko was wobbled in the 12th round by a shot that he couldnt get leverage on because of his toe. Grabbed on for life. Let alone the fact he grabbed every two minutes of the fight. Haye at 100% KO's him in style

The toe injury obviously didn't make things any easier for Haye, but if you truly believe that a broken little toe was enough to account for the massive difference between your fantasy scenario and the one we actually saw when they fought, then you're severely deluded.

No way, no how that conclusion is a sound one. Wlad was not in trouble in the 12th. Indeed - he probably won the round with the better, harder punches.

Haye's style - essentially wait, wait some more, then throw a furious flurry of punches will not win fights against boxer-punchers like Wlad and Vitali. His workrate is just too low to change the outcome. Now if he went away and became more of a Arreola style fighter - someone who swarmed over opponents inside - landing heavy bombs - that'd be a different story. However, he seemed happy to fight at range - which is a really stupid thing to do.

oxring wrote:

88Chris05 wrote:

d260005p wrote:Haye knocks him out within 12, easily. Klitschko was wobbled in the 12th round by a shot that he couldnt get leverage on because of his toe. Grabbed on for life. Let alone the fact he grabbed every two minutes of the fight. Haye at 100% KO's him in style

The toe injury obviously didn't make things any easier for Haye, but if you truly believe that a broken little toe was enough to account for the massive difference between your fantasy scenario and the one we actually saw when they fought, then you're severely deluded.

No way, no how that conclusion is a sound one. Wlad was not in trouble in the 12th. Indeed - he probably won the round with the better, harder punches.

Haye's style - essentially wait, wait some more, then throw a furious flurry of punches will not win fights against boxer-punchers like Wlad and Vitali. His workrate is just too low to change the outcome. Now if he went away and became more of a Arreola style fighter - someone who swarmed over opponents inside - landing heavy bombs - that'd be a different story. However, he seemed happy to fight at range - which is a really stupid thing to do.

Oh yeah fight like Arreola face first is not the stupid thing to do...Dont think you understand Haye's style oxy...Arreola is a accident waiting to happen a boxer with no skills who got shown up by Adamek.

Wlad was hurt in that round which is why held on for longer than before.

So if Wlad got shaken a bit, hardly anything to brag about when Haye lost practically all the rounds before.

One thing I don't think we really saw was Haye catching him cleanly, so we don't know how he would cope with a flush shot. Of course this would be dependent on if Haye could get a clean shot through. I still think Haye could win however he would have to be a lot busier and actually commit to a punch.

MickeyGoldmill wrote:Haye got well beat by Vlad Klit's efficient safety first boxing style.

The toe excuse was a bit pathetic but no doubt meant he couldn't be 100% especially with his explosive style (then again what boxer is 100% when they enter the ring?)

Lets say Booth negotiates a rematch. Haye at 100% - could he beat Vlad? Or do you think Vlad would steam roller him knowing he's already beaten him?

i belive haye can win he really was nt at his best on the night and wlad was fantastic , plus i think haye and booth would have lernt alot from being in the ring with wlad , i just hope he has the heart to come back stronger ,

d260005p wrote:Haye knocks him out within 12, easily. Klitschko was wobbled in the 12th round by a shot that he couldnt get leverage on because of his toe. Grabbed on for life. Let alone the fact he grabbed every two minutes of the fight. Haye at 100% KO's him in style

kinda agree , i dont think haye was as bad the press made out and his trash talking before wouldent of helped , but how wlad was allowed to lean on haye is byond me , at one point he had both fore arms round hayes neck and was pulling down , dont understand how it went unnoticed after the fight ,

I think Haye would only have one chance and go all out for the first 6 to take him out, if he boxes on the outside and wastes time dodging the jab then he has no chance David most certainly has the tools i.e: The speed and the power, but cannot waste time walking around on the outsidehe has to bang that chin as fast as he can.

The genius of PBF wrote:

oxring wrote:

88Chris05 wrote:

d260005p wrote:Haye knocks him out within 12, easily. Klitschko was wobbled in the 12th round by a shot that he couldnt get leverage on because of his toe. Grabbed on for life. Let alone the fact he grabbed every two minutes of the fight. Haye at 100% KO's him in style

The toe injury obviously didn't make things any easier for Haye, but if you truly believe that a broken little toe was enough to account for the massive difference between your fantasy scenario and the one we actually saw when they fought, then you're severely deluded.

No way, no how that conclusion is a sound one. Wlad was not in trouble in the 12th. Indeed - he probably won the round with the better, harder punches.

Haye's style - essentially wait, wait some more, then throw a furious flurry of punches will not win fights against boxer-punchers like Wlad and Vitali. His workrate is just too low to change the outcome. Now if he went away and became more of a Arreola style fighter - someone who swarmed over opponents inside - landing heavy bombs - that'd be a different story. However, he seemed happy to fight at range - which is a really stupid thing to do.

Oh yeah fight like Arreola face first is not the stupid thing to do...Dont think you understand Haye's style oxy...Arreola is a accident waiting to happen a boxer with no skills who got shown up by Adamek.

Wlad was hurt in that round which is why held on for longer than before.

Wlad was hurt and Haye couldn't capitalise because of his poor little toe. Hmmm.

Wlad wasn't particularly hurt - and landed the better shots and won the round on most people's cards. As for Haye's style - it consists of not using the jab to get on the inside, but instead leading with the hook, which is so telegraphed that he may as well have sent Wlad an email saying when he was going to throw the punch beforehand. No hard body shots - just the occasional jab to the body.

To my knowledge, I don't recall anyone being seriously inconvenienced from a jab to the body.

What was the plan then pbf?

Can't comment on the fight as I didn't see it, but as lame an excuse it might sound, but a broken toe really would effect the throwing of the right hand-everything in boxing comes from your feet and pushing off a broken would hurt a lot once the initial adrenalin rush wore off. Could Haye win? Yes, Is it likely?No

Stylistically, I never really thought that Haye had the beating of Wlad.

He has the physical tools, just not the style.

Ambush fighters can be comfortably nullified by an opponent with a great jab and good footwork, two qualities that Wlad has in abundence.

All this talk about Haye getting on the "inside" was nonsense.
Haye isn’t and never will be an inside fighter. Instead, he relies on raid attacks from a distance.

I don't see why the outcome would be any different if they fought again.

If Haye fights defensively, he loses a wide UD (as he did this time).

If he fights more offensively, he'll get knocked out.

J.Benson II wrote:Stylistically, I never really thought that Haye had the beating of Wlad.

He has the physical tools, just not the style.

Ambush fighters can be comfortably nullified by an opponent with a great jab and good footwork, two qualities that Wlad has in abundence.

All this talk about Haye getting on the "inside" was nonsense.
Haye isn’t and never will be an inside fighter. Instead, he relies on raid attacks from a distance.

I don't see why the outcome would be any different if they fought again.

If Haye fights defensively, he loses a wide UD (as he did this time).

If he fights more offensively, he'll get knocked out.

Agreed. Every word.

He absolutely looks the part - big muscled and we can point to loads of footage of him knocking people into next year. Yet who has he fought at HW who has a good jab and good footwork? Valuev had a jab of sorts but no footwork, Ruiz had a chin to withstand 8 rounds of brutality but not much more, Harrison had "feints" (genuinely, read Harrison's blog) and Klitschko offered power, a jab and footwork as well as a big size advantage. Funnily enough, he lost that last one.

Yes, Haye can win.

As I guy who thought he'd win last time and was utterly disappointed, I think he can win. Whether I think he would win is a different animal.

I'm hoping that in a rematch, he'd take on board the criticism of the last fight and actually take risks to step close and let his hands go.

If he adopted anything like the last approach then he should retire.

The last fight taught me, as many of you guys pointed out before, to stick to logic, Haye is a counter puncher at heart and no matter the talk beforehand, a counter puncher is not going to beat Wlad. It needs to be an aggressive fighter willing to take the risks and put the pressure on.

MickeyGoldmill wrote:Haye got well beat by Vlad Klit's efficient safety first boxing style.

The toe excuse was a bit pathetic but no doubt meant he couldn't be 100% especially with his explosive style (then again what boxer is 100% when they enter the ring?)

Lets say Booth negotiates a rematch. Haye at 100% - could he beat Vlad? Or do you think Vlad would steam roller him knowing he's already beaten him?

I dont think it was Wlad use particularly used the safety first... I thought Haye was far more cautious... Wlad was coming forward and trying to attack Haye but Haye just moved back and tried not to get hit..

Hope so, but I doubt it.