are Groves people unsure who to put him in with?

Perhaps this is why Groves has not had a date fixed. He is in an odd position really, has only 14 fights so no where near ready for the wrold scene. Has looked good and bad n differing fights but has also headlined a big bill in his fight with Degale and won a pretty meaningful victory in doing so. What standard should he be fighting at?

Degale has gone after the EBU, i have seen Magee touted but he is fighting elsewhere

What about Robin Reid. I dont think Reid should be fighting but it would be a good name on Groves record and a tough veteran to fight

Problem with Groves is he doesnt want to go backwards in standard after Degale, but is he ready to go forward from that?


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Groves' people is essentially Haye. Haye is pretty bad at putting-his-boxers-in-with people. Look at Price for instance. Of our current crop of HWs - Price has had 7 fights whilst Fury and Chisora have had 15 and they turned pro at similar times.

true Oxring, i thought Booth had mroe say in groves opponents but either way hayemaker have been poor at amtching there fighters. Say what you want about frog eyes but he has a plan for his fighters, even if it is basically just to buy the WBO and get all his fighters ranked number 1 with them after half a fight.

I think they're finding it hard to assess where Groves is in his development. You could view the Degale win as being somewhat 'unique' given the fact that both men knew eachother and eachothers styles very well. This makes it difficult to ascertain whether Groves performance against Degale is indicative of massive progress, or just a very sound plan that came off (and just barely remember) against a very familiar opponent.

Groves needs to remember he's still learning and he won't do that fighting twice a year, i thought Degale was always the one who looked ready to step up but Groves won the fight and should be fighting somebody decent, it's tricky matchmaking but he should forget about Degale and concentrate on his own career, even if that means he stays at the same level just now, he needs to get fighting though.

i think it is the latter sittingringside and well put btw. Groves is still developing, i honestly think he may as well be thrown in with the like of Reid or even a Jean Paul Mendy type, both he would beat IMO.

oxring wrote:Groves' people is essentially Haye. Haye is pretty bad at putting-his-boxers-in-with people. Look at Price for instance. Of our current crop of HWs - Price has had 7 fights whilst Fury and Chisora have had 15 and they turned pro at similar times.

Price promoter is Frank Maloney...all good fighting 15 fights but if your fighting bums then your not going to learn anything...The Haye camp do it the right way they go out and test their fighters against good opponents.

I think you will find Haye is very good at making the right fights for his boxers.

I wouldnt say Groves has been poorly matched at all. He has already been matched reasonably tough for a prospect these days and is the British and Commonwealth champion beating his main rival.

However I think the feeling is that hes not ready for world level and I think his team are looking for the right kind of fight rather than just feeding him some journeymen for the sake of keeping busy.

I would have suggested matching him with the likes of Enrique Ornelas, Alejandro Berrio or even someone like Anthony Mundine or Librande Andrade who are short of world title level but experienced enough to offer a step up in class and a good test.

Domestically Magee or possibly even Rocky Fielding could be options.

Straight after the Degale fight in an interview with skysports news he said he would probably fighting in October, so it seems he or his team were never in a rush to get him back in the ring.

Picking an opponent that isn't a backwards step after Degale without moving him on too quickly may be tricky, but as someone said if he is still learning he needs to stay active.

I like the sound of a fight with Magee, which could feasibly be made for later in the year. It would be a big test for Groves at the right stage of his career, but whether it will be made is another matter.

andrade might be too mich for groves this early, reid, mendy he would beat comfortably

maybe they are struggling to find opponents for him, but he could at least take on a mandatory challenge for either of his belts in the mean time, i dont think fighting twice a year will do him any favours, he put on a great performance, but i feel he will struggle later on is his career.

The genius of PBF wrote:

oxring wrote:Groves' people is essentially Haye. Haye is pretty bad at putting-his-boxers-in-with people. Look at Price for instance. Of our current crop of HWs - Price has had 7 fights whilst Fury and Chisora have had 15 and they turned pro at similar times.

Price promoter is Frank Maloney...all good fighting 15 fights but if your fighting bums then your not going to learn anything...The Haye camp do it the right way they go out and test their fighters against good opponents.

I think you will find Haye is very good at making the right fights for his boxers.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/boxing/7854118.stm

It not being 2012 - what do you know new? I believe Maloney is involved with him - but Hayemaker still has options.

And in terms of right fights for his boxers - Anderson Groves? Was that the right fight? Groves very nearly lost it - and deserved to be stopped more than Anderson did.

oxring wrote:

The genius of PBF wrote:

oxring wrote:Groves' people is essentially Haye. Haye is pretty bad at putting-his-boxers-in-with people. Look at Price for instance. Of our current crop of HWs - Price has had 7 fights whilst Fury and Chisora have had 15 and they turned pro at similar times.

Price promoter is Frank Maloney...all good fighting 15 fights but if your fighting bums then your not going to learn anything...The Haye camp do it the right way they go out and test their fighters against good opponents.

I think you will find Haye is very good at making the right fights for his boxers.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/boxing/7854118.stm

It not being 2012 - what do you know new? I believe Maloney is involved with him - but Hayemaker still has options.

And in terms of right fights for his boxers - Anderson Groves? Was that the right fight? Groves very nearly lost it - and deserved to be stopped more than Anderson did.

Anderson was a bloody tough fight for a relative novice like Groves, he was close to the edge in that one and it could be pointed to as poor matchmaking. However, the counter-argument is that the maturity that he gained in that fight helped him enormously, and could be seen as key in his performance against Degale i.e keeping his cool and sticking to his gameplan. It also got him to seriously tighten up his defence which can't have hurt.

Anderson was unbeaten and a tough SOB a tough nights work for any newcomer! Anderson also had a very good amateur career he had skills and Groves came through you all talk about being matched in difficult well he most certainly was matched in difficult! The guy before that he fought on the Haye - Ruiz card was a good fight for him also, then Degale? He has fought very tough fights so far in reference to where his career is at, been in with a few guys that have never been stopped aswell, so has been matched in with durable opposition! I don't see how you can even begin to say that Hayemakerpromotions haven't matched him in well, a far more tougher route than any Warren fighter I can ever think of! This will help him no end when he really steps up to the world class scene!

I would say that Hayemaker promotions seem to be more focused upon the main charge, than the young proteges.

Anderson Groves was a thoroughly exciting fight. I enjoyed it immensely. Groves was 1 punch from being stopped - and was in far more trouble when he was allowed to see out the round than Anderson was when he WAS stopped. This is luck, not brilliant matchmaking (and a ref who knows where the commission's bread is buttered.

For all the dross about him being more experienced than DeGale - DeGale stopped Paul Smith - who has been around the block and is a more proven fighter than Groves. Furthermore - the fight seems to have come off as some masterpiece from Hayemaker and Booth. 1 point. 1 point in it.

Price is 28. He's had 7 pro fights. He's fighting every 4 months or so. He should be fighting more, as often as possible and living in the gym - he needs to get the rounds under his belt now as he will not have time to do so later. Hence Fury's approach of touring the world for a fight is the better one. It is the more traditional approach and the more proven approach.

I can certainly see reasons to question Hayemaker's matchmaking, at least.

oxring wrote:Groves' people is essentially Haye. Haye is pretty bad at putting-his-boxers-in-with people. Look at Price for instance. Of our current crop of HWs - Price has had 7 fights whilst Fury and Chisora have had 15 and they turned pro at similar times.

I think you'll find 11 is nearer the mark

http://boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=483755&cat=boxer

Questioning Hayemaker's matchmaking is silly. Groves clearly learnt lessons from the Anderson fight which he employed in the De Gale fight. In beating De Gale he became British Champion. 1 fight a lesson learnt, the next he reaps his rewards. Not sure how you can get better than that?

Groves is probably struggling to find an opponent. I would have thought the original plan was to throw him in with someone on the undercard of what 'could have been Haye's first defence. A homecoming for both fighters. Unfortunately Haye lost so Groves will be the headliner. Not too many options for headliners out there. Groves doesn't bring a massive draw as yet so would struggle to bring over opponents as he is high risk low reward.

oxring wrote:Groves' people is essentially Haye. Haye is pretty bad at putting-his-boxers-in-with people. Look at Price for instance. Of our current crop of HWs - Price has had 7 fights whilst Fury and Chisora have had 15 and they turned pro at similar times.

? Price is with Maloney.

Edit: Didn't read the rest of the thread.

I'm not sure who the matchmaker is with Hayemaker? I'd assume Coldwell does that?

None of them are particularly experienced in making matchups, and probably don't have the contacts other promoters do.

Have thought something similar Scott. You can always see what Warren is trying to do - heading down a Commonwealth route and then leaping onto a WBO title shot. You can sort of see what Hennessy likes to do, with a European shot important pre-title - and terrestrial exposure if he can.

Perhaps I'm being too harsh. Hayemaker haven't been around that long with a stable of fighters to match. Maybe they are just developing their contacts.