O'Driscoll declares himself fit to play against France

http://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/2011/0808/ireland_odriscollb.html

Full link above. Basically BOD is saying that he rarely goes into matches fully fit these days and is up for playing whenever he's needed.

Must win game.

He didn't declare himself fit. The headline said that, he said "When I get onto the pitch I'll be ready for it" and "I'm feeling pretty fit at the moment."

I'm sure he's willing to go onto the field and play, but it seems the Irish management want to hold him back an extra week fit or not.

I surmise he will be held back an extra week. BOD would declare himself fit to play if he was on one leg. The coaches will be more prudent. I doubt we'll see him in the starting XV at the weekend.

But it's encouraging to know his ailment is nothing major and he will be fit and ready very soon.

The manangement have already said he won't be back until the game against France on the 20th.

leinsterbaby wrote:Must win game.

No it's not. You are putting too much emphasis and pressure on these games. It's just about game time and looking at players. The next 'must win' game on the horizon is USA on the 11th September in NZ. A loss will not worry me until that point.

Thats when it matters.

clivemcl wrote:

leinsterbaby wrote:Must win game.

No it's not. You are putting too much emphasis and pressure on these games. It's just about game time and looking at players. The next 'must win' game on the horizon is USA on the 11th September in NZ. A loss will not worry me until that point.

Thats when it matters.

No actually these games are quite important. If not for momentum, cohesion and confidence it is important that we maintain a high world ranking for the seeding of the next WC. By losing to Scotland we slip to 6th in the rankings. Can't afford to slip much more especially if we have a disastrous WC again.

leinsterbaby wrote:

clivemcl wrote:

leinsterbaby wrote:Must win game.

No it's not. You are putting too much emphasis and pressure on these games. It's just about game time and looking at players. The next 'must win' game on the horizon is USA on the 11th September in NZ. A loss will not worry me until that point.

Thats when it matters.

No actually these games are quite important. If not for momentum, cohesion and confidence it is important that we maintain a high world ranking for the seeding of the next WC. By losing to Scotland we slip to 6th in the rankings. Can't afford to slip much more especially if we have a disastrous WC again.

That really should not be what is on our mind.

Well surely good news for the Irish, and wise from management to give him more time to recover, I think he will be crucial for the match vs SA, should keep the Irish loss to respectable figures.

leinsterbaby wrote:
No actually these games are quite important. If not for momentum, cohesion and confidence it is important that we maintain a high world ranking for the seeding of the next WC. By losing to Scotland we slip to 6th in the rankings. Can't afford to slip much more especially if we have a disastrous WC again.

Yes all of that is true but if we don't try all our options in these games then we are more likely to have a disasterous WC. The ranking and result is secondary to getting the right 30 players on the plane to NZ.

That game against Scotland probably showed us that if we went with the same combinations against Italy then there's a fair chance we would lose so it was a valuable excercise for us as we now have a few games to try and improve on the areas were we struggled.

Playing the 1st XV in every game and winning will tell us nothing as we can't play the same team in every game and hope to go a long way in the WC.

clivemcl wrote:

leinsterbaby wrote:Must win game.

No it's not. You are putting too much emphasis and pressure on these games. It's just about game time and looking at players. The next 'must win' game on the horizon is USA on the 11th September in NZ. A loss will not worry me until that point.

Thats when it matters.

100% agree
Now is the time (and really is the last chance before the RWC the connacht game aside) to try things. We need to see combinations and test abilities

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:

clivemcl wrote:

leinsterbaby wrote:Must win game.

No it's not. You are putting too much emphasis and pressure on these games. It's just about game time and looking at players. The next 'must win' game on the horizon is USA on the 11th September in NZ. A loss will not worry me until that point.

Thats when it matters.

100% agree
Now is the time (and really is the last chance before the RWC the connacht game aside) to try things. We need to see combinations and test abilities

0% agree. The experimenting should have been done over the last two years. It wasn't and we still achieved average results. The Scotland game was a game for giving back up players game time, that's fine. Anyone on the plane should have game time prior to NZ. However, picking guys that won't travel is ridiculous.

Secondly I would much prefer to win the first test v France than the second as the first test is often a harder test for many reasons. Ireland need to beat the French prior to NZ. The boost in confidence would be invaluable.

"The experimenting should have been done over the last two years."

I agree but that hasn't happened, I think certain players need to be tried out in certain positions. 13 being the main one, who is the actuall back up for BOD?? Earls? McF? Bowe? Positions like that.

Can Earls play 15 when high balls are raining down on him???

Can SOB be used as a 7?

Is Ferris able to play at the moment?

Is Buckley a good bet off the bench??

Does Fla have 80mins left him?

Can kearney replicate the Scottish performance??

Is Fitzgerald getting back to form??

Can Sexton and Wallace forge an effective partnership???

Can TOL supply quick ball?

We have lots of questions that need answering before the squad is selected

100% agree Pete. Many those could have been answered in the 6N and AI's though but Kidney chose to stick with the tried and tested.

Now we have a few injury problems like D'arcy and we're frantically trying to asses our options.

roddersm wrote:100% agree Pete. Many those could have been answered in the 6N and AI's though but Kidney chose to stick with the tried and tested.

Did he? I'd argue we have options in a good number of positions. To me we have had ample rotation at loosehead, prop, tighthead, backrow, scrumhalf, flyhalf, winger and fullback.

red_stag wrote:

roddersm wrote:100% agree Pete. Many those could have been answered in the 6N and AI's though but Kidney chose to stick with the tried and tested.

Did he? I'd argue we have options in a good number of positions. To me we have had ample rotation at loosehead, prop, tighthead, backrow, scrumhalf, flyhalf, winger and fullback.

So why the need to continue experimenting in the warm up games? Yeah there are some unanswered questions but realistically the only unanswered questions should be are the injured guys fit again. Is now the time to be finding out if anyone can replace Drico at 13? Of course not. I called for Earls to start the first 6N game at 13 but heavily criticised. Now is the time for the dead Certs to be getting games and results under their belts not messing around.

Leinster, for me we have created a lot of depth in some positions. Thats what that experimentation was about - creating depth where none existed previously. I would see it as long term experimentation.

Now we need short term experimentation. What combos are working best and which will take us forward. Ideally we'll find out feet at just the right time.

leinsterBaby answered it already for me Stag but we shouldn't be in this position now with the centres. Kidney had ample time over the course of the season to test the different combinations of Wallace, McFadden, Earls, Bowe etc. to ensure we knew and were happy with our options if there were problems with either BOD or D'arcy.or both

I also think the failure to give gametime to anyone other than Sexton and ROG at 10 could come back to bite us if an injury occured to either or both.

In most positions we are ok but there really should n't be so many question marks about our midfield options at this stage.

IMO McFadden was not ready for international rugby until he got it. As I see it Earls, Wallace, O'Driscoll and Darcy have all got several games at centre for Ireland.

biltongbek wrote:Well surely good news for the Irish, and wise from management to give him more time to recover, I think he will be crucial for the match vs SA, should keep the Irish loss to respectable figures.

So you expect yourselves to come 2nd in your group???? Thought you of all people would have more faith in your team!!

leinsterbaby wrote:

red_stag wrote:

roddersm wrote:100% agree Pete. Many those could have been answered in the 6N and AI's though but Kidney chose to stick with the tried and tested.

Did he? I'd argue we have options in a good number of positions. To me we have had ample rotation at loosehead, prop, tighthead, backrow, scrumhalf, flyhalf, winger and fullback.

So why the need to continue experimenting in the warm up games? Yeah there are some unanswered questions but realistically the only unanswered questions should be are the injured guys fit again. Is now the time to be finding out if anyone can replace Drico at 13? Of course not. I called for Earls to start the first 6N game at 13 but heavily criticised. Now is the time for the dead Certs to be getting games and results under their belts not messing around.

Hardly surprising you got criticism - Bowe, Horgan, Trimble, Murphy & Kearney all injured and Earls coming back from injury. McFaddan was picking up his first cap.

the-goon wrote:
So you expect yourselves to come 2nd in your group???? Thought you of all people would have more faith in your team!!

Goon, I think Biltong is talking about when we play SA in the final

Saying we should have done this or we should have done that is not the kinda thing that Kidney can say though. saying that isn't going to change anything or get us results.

leinsterbaby wrote:

red_stag wrote:

roddersm wrote:100% agree Pete. Many those could have been answered in the 6N and AI's though but Kidney chose to stick with the tried and tested.

Did he? I'd argue we have options in a good number of positions. To me we have had ample rotation at loosehead, prop, tighthead, backrow, scrumhalf, flyhalf, winger and fullback.

So why the need to continue experimenting in the warm up games? Yeah there are some unanswered questions but realistically the only unanswered questions should be are the injured guys fit again. Is now the time to be finding out if anyone can replace Drico at 13? Of course not. I called for Earls to start the first 6N game at 13 but heavily criticized. Now is the time for the dead Certs to be getting games and results under their belts not messing around.

I agree with Leinsterbaby.

The ideal would have been for the 1st team to trot out against France twice and England. But Kidney didnt want to experiment in the 6 nations, so we are where we are.

Boyne wrote:

leinsterbaby wrote:

red_stag wrote:

roddersm wrote:100% agree Pete. Many those could have been answered in the 6N and AI's though but Kidney chose to stick with the tried and tested.

Did he? I'd argue we have options in a good number of positions. To me we have had ample rotation at loosehead, prop, tighthead, backrow, scrumhalf, flyhalf, winger and fullback.

So why the need to continue experimenting in the warm up games? Yeah there are some unanswered questions but realistically the only unanswered questions should be are the injured guys fit again. Is now the time to be finding out if anyone can replace Drico at 13? Of course not. I called for Earls to start the first 6N game at 13 but heavily criticized. Now is the time for the dead Certs to be getting games and results under their belts not messing around.

I agree with Leinsterbaby.

The ideal would have been for the 1st team to trot out against France twice and England. But Kidney didnt want to experiment in the 6 nations, so we are where we are.

Why did Kidney not want to experiment?

Could it be that he couldn't? The 6ns would have been the perfect time to try and develop a new style of play without the team captain and most the backs injured or coming back from injury and the vice-captain coming back from an injury which has kept him out for nearly a year!

leinsterbaby wrote:No actually these games are quite important. If not for momentum, cohesion and confidence it is important that we maintain a high world ranking for the seeding of the next WC. By losing to Scotland we slip to 6th in the rankings. Can't afford to slip much more especially if we have a disastrous WC again.

Since Ireland are below France and England then losing to them won't damage their ranking. These games are typical pre-season with nothing to be learned about players. They are designed to prepare the players for the games that matter and the results are incidental. World cup games count double in terms of ranking points as well.

It would be the height of foolishness to harm the preparation process for a world cup that is only a month away, chasing ranking points for the event in 2015!

Sin é wrote:

Boyne wrote:

leinsterbaby wrote:

red_stag wrote:

roddersm wrote:100% agree Pete. Many those could have been answered in the 6N and AI's though but Kidney chose to stick with the tried and tested.

Did he? I'd argue we have options in a good number of positions. To me we have had ample rotation at loosehead, prop, tighthead, backrow, scrumhalf, flyhalf, winger and fullback.

So why the need to continue experimenting in the warm up games? Yeah there are some unanswered questions but realistically the only unanswered questions should be are the injured guys fit again. Is now the time to be finding out if anyone can replace Drico at 13? Of course not. I called for Earls to start the first 6N game at 13 but heavily criticized. Now is the time for the dead Certs to be getting games and results under their belts not messing around.

I agree with Leinsterbaby.

The ideal would have been for the 1st team to trot out against France twice and England. But Kidney didnt want to experiment in the 6 nations, so we are where we are.

Why did Kidney not want to experiment?

Could it be that he couldn't? The 6ns would have been the perfect time to try and develop a new style of play without the team captain and most the backs injured or coming back from injury and the vice-captain coming back from an injury which has kept him out for nearly a year!

Don't be ridiculous. He has had two years to experiment post grand slam. He has been quite conservative and yet we still have achieved quite average results.

leinsterbaby wrote:Don't be ridiculous. He has had two years to experiment post grand slam. He has been quite conservative and yet we still have achieved quite average results.

Looshead - Court, Healy, Horan have all got good game time.

Hooker - Cronin, Best and Flannery all got good game time.

Tighthead - Hayes, Buckley, Ross, Court all got good game time.

Lock - not enough done

Backrow - Leamy, Ferris, Wallace, Heaslip, O'Brien all got good game time.

Scrumhalf - Reddan, Stringer, O'Leary all got good game time.

Flyhalf - Sexton and O'Gara all got good game time.

Centre - Wallace, Darcy, O'Driscoll, Earls all got good game time.

Winger - Trimble, Bowe, Earls, Fitzgerald all got good game time.

Fullback - Fitzgerald, Murphy, Kearney, Earls all got good game time.

O'Connell, O'Callaghan, Cullen, Ryan, O'Driscoll and Tuohy have all seen gametime under Kidney. I think thats fair enough.

Actually yes come to think of it.

I think the idea that he picks the same 15 every week is laughable.

red_stag wrote:

leinsterbaby wrote:Don't be ridiculous. He has had two years to experiment post grand slam. He has been quite conservative and yet we still have achieved quite average results.

Looshead - Court, Healy, Horan have all got good game time.

Hooker - Cronin, Best and Flannery all got good game time.

Tighthead - Hayes, Buckley, Ross, Court all got good game time.

Lock - not enough done

Backrow - Leamy, Ferris, Wallace, Heaslip, O'Brien all got good game time.

Scrumhalf - Reddan, Stringer, O'Leary all got good game time.

Flyhalf - Sexton and O'Gara all got good game time.

Centre - Wallace, Darcy, O'Driscoll, Earls all got good game time.

Winger - Trimble, Bowe, Earls, Fitzgerald all got good game time.

Fullback - Fitzgerald, Murphy, Kearney, Earls all got good game time.

But it's not enough!!!!!!!!!!! McFadden should have been made captain and O'Leary deregistered as a rugby player.

Notch wrote:O'Connell, O'Callaghan, Cullen, Ryan, O'Driscoll and Tuohy have all seen gametime under Kidney. I think thats fair enough.

Notch most of those guys have only seen gametime though injury otherwise it's been O'Connell and O'Callaghan for 80 min of every game. The same applies to the centre.

You can't credit Kidney for playing players because he has no one else available.

Actually just seen Cronin has 13 caps to his name. Thats quite a lot for a 3rd choice player who has been at Connacht up to now.

roddersm wrote:You can't credit Kidney for playing players because he has no one else available.

Neither can you make up stories that injured players have got gametime.

red_stag wrote:Actually just seen Cronin has 13 caps to his name. Thats quite a lot for a 3rd choice player who has been at Connacht up to now.

Stag most of those caps have probably been for less than 10 mins.

The only rotation Kidney does voluntarily is giving ROG a start every 3 games. Presumably he feels a player with 100 odd caps is in more need of gametime and experience than a player with 1 or 2.

roddersm wrote:

red_stag wrote:Actually just seen Cronin has 13 caps to his name. Thats quite a lot for a 3rd choice player who has been at Connacht up to now.

Stag most of those caps have probably been for less than 10 mins.

The only rotation Kidney does voluntarily is giving ROG a start every 3 games. Presumably he feels a player with 100 odd caps is in more need of gametime and experience than a player with 1 or 2.

Ah of course and hes biased against everyone from Munster and has a vendetta agaisnt Paddy Wallace too.

roddersm wrote:

Notch wrote:O'Connell, O'Callaghan, Cullen, Ryan, O'Driscoll and Tuohy have all seen gametime under Kidney. I think thats fair enough.

Notch most of those guys have only seen gametime though injury otherwise it's been O'Connell and O'Callaghan for 80 min of every game. The same applies to the centre.

You can't credit Kidney for playing players because he has no one else available.

The hell you can't. The objective is to get a 30-man squad together, all experienced and all match fit. We're very much on track to do just that. He's done this while generally picking his strongest available team at all times.

His management of the squad has been absolutely immaculate.

The only thing i think we havent seen is a back up 13. Earls had almost a full game against wales in 2010 but BOD has imo been slightly too everpresent. Hardly a crime to keep picking your captain though

Notch wrote:
His management of the squad has been absolutely immaculate.

B*lls it has. We have no back up 13 (despite having a Lions test 13 in the squad) and only two capped fly halves one of which is 34. We have two 30 something 12's neither of whom have set the world alight in the past season.

It took Kidney 6 months longer than everyone else to realise O'Brien was the best ball carrier in europe and that Ross was the best tighthead in the country. It took him 4 games to work out that Luke Fitzgerald couldn't catch a highball.

The good work being done by the provincial coaches, particulary Schmidt, in terms of developing players is the only thing keeping the Irish side a float. Kidney is so far out of his depth it is almost cringeworthy. Les Kiss brilliant defensive work also has masked the inadequacies of the rest of the coaching team.

If we go well at this WC it will be in spite of Kidney and not because of him.

roddersm wrote:
The good work being done by the provincial coaches, particulary Schmidt, in terms of developing players is the only thing keeping the Irish side a float.

Oh lovely another person who thinks Leinster only became a good thing this year.

roddersm wrote:If we go well at this WC it will be in spite of Kidney and not because of him.

Nonsense. He's managed to put out his strongest team in practically every game and build a squad of 30 players who can all sot in when necessary.

It would be nice if Kidnety tried his experimenting against England for once *humpf*

I won't even bother with the negative post above about Kidney.

red_stag wrote:

roddersm wrote:
The good work being done by the provincial coaches, particulary Schmidt, in terms of developing players is the only thing keeping the Irish side a float.

Oh lovely another person who thinks Leinster only became a good thing this year.

Eh, how do you work that out? I meant all of the provincial coaches but singled out schmidt because Leinster are supplying most of the squad right now. They've all done a great job.

I'll be very happy if Kidney proves me wrong but I honestly think he has been a total shambles as Ireland coach.

I suspect you are on the wind up Rodders. If you are well done. If you aren't then I am just astounded and I despair for the type of fans we have.

Either way - not gonna get into it.

red_stag wrote:I suspect you are on the wind up Rodders. If you are well done. If you aren't then I am just astounded and I despair for the type of fans we have.

No stag I'm serious. I have plenty of faith in our players and our infrastructure but I am not at all happy with Kidney so far, or the other coaches, with the exception of Les Kiss, who is a genious.

I have nothing against Kidney and if he proves me wrong I'll be very happy and if I'm wrong on any points above then I'll have no problem admitting it.

roddersm wrote:

red_stag wrote:I suspect you are on the wind up Rodders. If you are well done. If you aren't then I am just astounded and I despair for the type of fans we have.

No stag I'm serious. I have plenty of faith in our players and our infrastructure but I am not at all happy with Kidney so far, or the other coaches, with the exception of Les Kiss, who is a genious.

I have nothing against Kidney and if he proves me wrong I'll be very happy and if I'm wrong on any points above then I'll have no problem admitting it.

How will he prove you wrong if you think that we will only do well in spite of him?

Rodders

So basically if we make a semi final/final he gets no credit but if we crash and burn he gets the blame. It cant work like that

Standulstermen wrote:Rodders

So basically if we make a semi final/final he gets no credit but if we crash and burn he gets the blame. It cant work like that

No you are twisting my words guys. If we see a steady improvement in the side from the mediocre and headless chicken stuff we've seen for a lot of the past 18 months then of course I'll give him credit.

I think he has done some good things, his man management is much better than EOS but I think selection and tactics are not his strong point, nor is forward planning.

If we go well at this WC it will be in spite of Kidney and not because of him.

What other way can we interpret these words?

MBTGOG wrote:

If we go well at this WC it will be in spite of Kidney and not because of him.

What other way can we interpret these words?

That I don't trust kidney to get the selection and tactics right for a given game and our players our going to have to front up and pull it out of the bag regardless of what Kidney does.

If we reach the SF or better then I'll attribute the reasons after the event not now. If it's down to Kidneys descisions then I'll give credit where it's due.

Incidently not many give Brian Ashton much credit for England reaching the final last time. A team can still do well in spite of their coach.