England vs India 3rd Test Debate

This is the official thread to discuss the 3rd Test between England and India to be played at Edgbaston.

Toss:England won the toss and chose to field first

Indian line up

Virender Sehwag
Gautam Gambhir
Rahul Dravid
Sachin Tendulkar
VVS Laxman
Suresh Raina
MS Dhoni(c & wk)
Amit Mishra
Praveen Kumar
Ishant Sharma
S Sreesanth

England Line up

Andrew Strauss(c)
Alastair Cook
Ian Bell
Kevin Pietersen
Eoin Morgan
Ravi Bopara
Matt Prior(wk)
Tim Bresnan
Stuart Broad
Graeme Swann
James Anderson


All the best to both the teams

Cheers

Sorry lads but living here in Holland i am not up to date with the events fully. I know that the football match has been called off but will the cricket also be called off??

Doesn't seem like it, there has been riots etc. in and around Birmingham but Edgbaston seems to be far enough out of the way and obviously it will be finished by 6pm so I don't think any sort of cancellation is expected.

Aggers said the pitch looks a bit green which is probably better for our bowlers than India although our batting looks a bit weak for this match, I could see us being 5 down for under 100 with Bell and Prior having to start a rescue mission. Hopefully not though!

Sainty
I will post the line ups.You dont need to do so.:thumbsup

Weather's good here in Brum, bit of a breeze, bit overcast and cool - definitely a win the toss and bowl first day.

shankythebiggestengfan wrote:I have posted the probable line ups.Once they are confirmed,I will delete the word "probable" and make necessary changes to the line ups (if any).I will also post the result of the Toss in the space provided.

Red pen is for the mods, Shanky, black will suffice for your posts

Fists
Done in Dark Blue

Just use the normal font mate, remember we need to keep this forum as 'work safe' as possible, so it is only when trying to calm down a cyber riot that the mods should use their red pen. Cheers

Fists of Fury wrote:Weather's good here in Brum, bit of a breeze, bit overcast and cool - definitely a win the toss and bowl first day.

Yeah you think India would do that AGAIN?

Are India really likely to rely on Raina as their front line spinner?
Its a juicy looking tail if the front five dont do the business.

Theres fragility in Englands top 6 though, they could be relying on their tail to bail them out again. But if India dont have a proper slow bowler they could be quids in overs 60-90.

Hmm there is an air of fragility, though I am confident enough that there is enough quality for at least one or two of them to make a significant contribution.

India need to hope they lose this toss, because they will be loathe to elect to bowl again, though that would be the sensible option in these conditions. I predict some serious swing, based on the conditions here today.

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:

Fists of Fury wrote:Weather's good here in Brum, bit of a breeze, bit overcast and cool - definitely a win the toss and bowl first day.

Yeah you think India would do that AGAIN?

Are India really likely to rely on Raina as their front line spinner?
Its a juicy looking tail if the front five dont do the business.

Theres fragility in Englands top 5 though, they could be relying on their tail to bail them out again. But if India dont have a proper slow bowler they could be quids in overs 60-90.

Doesn't Sehwag bowl a bit of off-break as well? With the pitch being as green as it is it, and the weather not being great over the next few days spin is hardly going to play a big part. Picking 4 seamers may end up by the right plan.

Morning all.

Looking forward to this.

Morning Sainty, me too mate, can see a fair few wickets falling today.

Yeah, I'm not too far from Birmingham and it's overcast, but bright, so can see the ball swinging around a bit.

liverbnz wrote:

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:

Fists of Fury wrote:Weather's good here in Brum, bit of a breeze, bit overcast and cool - definitely a win the toss and bowl first day.

Yeah you think India would do that AGAIN?

Are India really likely to rely on Raina as their front line spinner?
Its a juicy looking tail if the front five dont do the business.

Theres fragility in Englands top 5 though, they could be relying on their tail to bail them out again. But if India dont have a proper slow bowler they could be quids in overs 60-90.

Doesn't Sehwag bowl a bit of off-break as well?

Thats a bit like saying its OK for England to leave out Swann because they have Pietersen and Bell. But yeah I was forgetting him, I guess he would be the spinner even so ... It strikes me as odd to see a team like India who are traditionaly famed for their spinners not field a proper one.

I think they will field a proper spinner, although Sehwag has got a good number of wickets at an average of around 40. KP and Bell have what? 5 between them, if even?

I think Mishra will play and bat at 8, although I don't think going with 4 front line seamers would be a bad choice for India.

So, England win the toss and elect to bowl. I sense wickets!

First wicket prediction:

Sehwag 4 c Swann b Anderson

Sehwag 22 c Strauss b Broad

Sehwag more than worth the wait.

Sehwag going for a golden!!!

Get in!!

Steve Davis as an umpire makes the TMS commentary very confussing, I thought Prioir had been injured for a minute!

Well done Broad

Ha, so much for the Indian saviour! Great stuff Broady.

Fists of Fury wrote:Ha, so much for the Indian saviour! Great stuff Broady.

To be fair most people did think Gambhir was the bigger miss. And hes killing Anderson!

I don't mind him hitting these 4's...the ball is hooping round corners, let's hope he keeps playing shots and he won't last long.

Couple of slices of luck for Gambir, 2 edges falling short.

Wondering when the last time in a test series the toss winners chose to put the opposition in 3 times in a row?

Well that was an anti-climax. Would love to have seen Sehwag last a bit.

I wouldn't...however these two are scoring at a fair old lick. Strange really, as it'd seem to be difficult batting conditions. They've rode their luck but also cashed in. Good Test cricket.

Gambhir settling in nicely

We need a wicket desperately

Cant see the match lads as i am at work.. How has it been so far?

Desperately? I wouldn't quite go that far, shanky! 42-1 isn't too bad, and another couple will make it look horrendous.

No desperately about it, England are causing some trouble with the ball, Dravid and Gambhir are having to work really hard and stay on their toes. Promising start to the test!

We do need to make them play more, though. Our lines have been a little wide this morning.

I can't help but feel some people are thinking this is a fore gone conclusion. I expect England to win in so much as they are favourites but there seems far too much talk in the press of "is this the best England side ever?". To me we are only the best ever once we have beaten South Africa in South Africa and India in India.

Not really, screaming, as there is no precedent set by previous England teams which we need to surpass. If others had achieved all of those feats then sure, but they haven't. We have won away in Australia, a mega feat in itself. If we were to add away wins in India and SA to that, we would be talked about amongst THE greatest teams ever, let alone the greatest English one.

People (not mentioning any names, shanky) are getting ahead of themselves though, and expecting us to roll over this Indian batting lineup, and we should maybe take a check and remember that this is an incredible batting lineup, who won't be easily rolled in every innings we play against them.

screamingaddabs wrote:I can't help but feel some people are thinking this is a fore gone conclusion. I expect England to win in so much as they are favourites but there seems far too much talk in the press of "is this the best England side ever?". To me we are only the best ever once we have beaten South Africa in South Africa and India in India.

I never understand this logic. It annoys me as much as measuring a spinner's ability by how he bowls in India.

Why does the best team in the world have to beat everyone else away from home? Do Manchester United have to beat Chelsea every year at Stamford Bridge to be know as the best team in England? Did Federer have to beat Nadal on Clay before being recognised as one of the best ever?

If England win this series by 2 clear Tests then they will rightly be crowned world number 1 and their form in the last 2 years warrants that. No use making up new criteria as we go along.

screamingaddabs wrote:I can't help but feel some people are thinking this is a fore gone conclusion. I expect England to win in so much as they are favourites but there seems far too much talk in the press of "is this the best England side ever?". To me we are only the best ever once we have beaten South Africa in South Africa and India in India.

I suppose it's just the years of being a running joke (i.e. losing more often than the England cricket team like jokes) in the 90s has left me a little unwilling to suddenly declare us the best. I still see a batting collapse about to happen whenever we bat. I'm scarred for life, the horror, the horror......

So there was no Sehwag heroics, and he doesn't play great in the 2nd innings often. Dravid and Gambhir have held on alright so far.

But what is this? It seems Tim Bresnan has so far been the fastest bowler on action? Not bad for a County Trundler!!!!

liverbnz wrote:

screamingaddabs wrote:I can't help but feel some people are thinking this is a fore gone conclusion. I expect England to win in so much as they are favourites but there seems far too much talk in the press of "is this the best England side ever?". To me we are only the best ever once we have beaten South Africa in South Africa and India in India.

I never understand this logic. It annoys me as much as measuring a spinner's ability by how he bowls in India.

Why does the best team in the world have to beat everyone else away from home? Do Manchester United have to beat Chelsea every year at Stamford Bridge to be know as the best team in England? Did Federer have to beat Nadal on Clay before being recognised as one of the best ever?

If England win this series by 2 clear Tests then they will rightly be crowned world number 1 and their form in the last 2 years warrants that. No use making up new criteria as we go along.

A perfect riposte, hats off to you, sir.

msp83 wrote:So there was no Sehwag heroics, and he doesn't play great in the 2nd innings often. Dravid and Gambhir have held on alright so far.

But what is this? It seems Tim Bresnan has so far been the fastest bowler on action? Not bad for a County Trundler!!!!

I told you msp.Sehwag cant play the moving ball.

Fists of Fury wrote:

liverbnz wrote:

screamingaddabs wrote:I can't help but feel some people are thinking this is a fore gone conclusion. I expect England to win in so much as they are favourites but there seems far too much talk in the press of "is this the best England side ever?". To me we are only the best ever once we have beaten South Africa in South Africa and India in India.

I never understand this logic. It annoys me as much as measuring a spinner's ability by how he bowls in India.

Why does the best team in the world have to beat everyone else away from home? Do Manchester United have to beat Chelsea every year at Stamford Bridge to be know as the best team in England? Did Federer have to beat Nadal on Clay before being recognised as one of the best ever?

If England win this series by 2 clear Tests then they will rightly be crowned world number 1 and their form in the last 2 years warrants that. No use making up new criteria as we go along.

A perfect riposte, hats off to you, sir.

It's a fair point (yes, I said that on a message board!)

Dravid and Gambhir going along nicely now, England have bowled well though without much luck, Gambhir could easily have edged a couple straight to the slips and Dravid has had a couple of very close play and misses. Could definitely do with another one out before lunch.

liverbnz wrote:

screamingaddabs wrote:I can't help but feel some people are thinking this is a bbBfore gone conclusion. I expect England to win in so much as they are favourites but there seems far too much talk in the press of "is this the best England side ever?". To me we are only the best ever once we have beaten South Africa in South Africa and India in India.

I never understand this logic. It annoys me as much as measuring a spinner's ability by how he bowls in India.

Why does the best team in the world have to beat everyone else away from home? Do Manchester United have to beat Chelsea every year at Stamford Bridge to be know as the best team in England? Did Federer have to beat Nadal on Clay before being recognised as one of the best ever?

If England win this series by 2 clear Tests then they will rightly be crowned world number 1 and their form in the last 2 years warrants that. No use making up new criteria as we go along.

England will of course be rightly ranked number 1 if they win the series by 2 tests.
However, there is a larger point. Some people seem to jump ahead and declare this side among the best ever international sides. That is a touch too far fetched.
To be recognized like that, the team has to perform consistently well in all kinds of conditions.
India has been the rightful number 1 over the last 2 years, but they came unstuck in tough batting conditions against a quality bowling unit. Also they haven't won a series in SA or Australia. Therefore they due to a string of consistent performance managed to become the number one side in the world in a particular time period, but are not considered as one of the best ever sides

shankythebiggestengfan wrote:

msp83 wrote:So there was no Sehwag heroics, and he doesn't play great in the 2nd innings often. Dravid and Gambhir have held on alright so far.

But what is this? It seems Tim Bresnan has so far been the fastest bowler on action? Not bad for a County Trundler!!!!

I told you msp.Sehwag cant play the moving ball.

I remember that and I remember my response as well. Sehwag is a player who makes conditions irrelevant. He has scored runs in England in the past, he scored runs, I mean big runs in Australia, runs in SA as well.
And today he got out to a sharp short ball from Broad, a good ball first up, anyone could have got out on that.