England vs India 1st test debate

why did u lock other thread mate?

Read what i put on it.

I was just about to create one but nevermind.. :P

ah right ok didnt see that

Wow, did we really nearly hit 1000posts... Thats impressive

its not just on the field, but off it also, the match has lived up to its billing. The new thread proves that beyond any doubt.

Man this guy Dravid loves batting. 293 balls faced so far in this match. I knew there was a reason why he has faced the most balls in Test history.

i still think we are ahead in this game, but we need early wickets tomorrow morning

I think Tremlett and Broad should open the bowling tomorrow, England need early wickets and these 2 are the most likely to get them.

India where never gonna go for the win in this Test, they have a rookie in for the Zen Master(Sehwag) and everyone knows that no one bats like Sehwag - Man I wish I could!!!

jimmy has been ineffective so far, bowled too wide, and on occasions too short, i think swanny will play a key role as usual

He's had a quiet game so far but I want to see him get into the wickets tomorrow and make this a last day with a lot of action.

With the ticket prices down to reasonable for monday , a big pro england crowd will make a positive difference too.

india have serious worries in their squad

umpires have done very well in this test as well

cricketfan90 wrote:umpires have done very well in this test as well

Agreed. Everyone is quick to slate them when they do badly, but I can't think of one decision they've got wrong in this test.

Just seen today's highlights, here in Singapore and I've been left slightly confused. Why did England bat on and on and on? India have injury issues with Gambhir, Tendulkar and Khan, with the Gambhir and Tendulkar unable to bat in their regular positions. Playing for hundreds, as Strauss did with Prior, shows personal landmarks are too important for England. When Australia where the Kings, Ponting wouldn't think twice about declaring early, to heap more pressure on an injury ravaged Indian side.

However Tendulkar and Gambhir can both bat, so England don't want to go 1 down after the first test, this way India will have to bat agressively near enough from the get go, likely giving England chances

Good Morning all:)

Biggest successful 4th innings run chases:

Team Target Overs Versus Venue Date
West Indies 418/7 128.5 Australia Antigua May 2003
South Africa 414/4 119.2 Australia Perth Dec 2008
India 406/4 147.0 West Indies Trinidad Apr 1976
Australia 404/3 114.1 England Leeds Jul 1948
India 387/4 98.3 England Chennai Dec 2008

So while the weight of history is against India they do already have two of the top five spots, the last being a mere three years ago.

So I suspect I'm not the only England supporter with a slightly nervous feeling. It seems the queues for seats at Lords today began forming at 3am!

I read the cricinfo's day 4 report this morning and whoever wrote it seems to think it's a foregone conclusion, almost. He certainlly doesn't give India a hope which is foolhardy in my view. Dravid, Tendulkar and Laxman could bat to Christmas if they wanted to, and the rest aren't too shabby either.

longhopmerchant wrote:Just seen today's highlights, here in Singapore and I've been left slightly confused. Why did England bat on and on and on? India have injury issues with Gambhir, Tendulkar and Khan, with the Gambhir and Tendulkar unable to bat in their regular positions. Playing for hundreds, as Strauss did with Prior, shows personal landmarks are too important for England. When Australia where the Kings, Ponting wouldn't think twice about declaring early, to heap more pressure on an injury ravaged Indian side.

Scoreboard pressure and psychology. Its teh way they have operated, succesfuly, in recent series.

Build up an imposing total, crush and tire out the opposition, keep pouring on the misery, and end your innings on a high.
Had they bailed out feeling theyd done just enough to scrape a lead India would have been on the mental high. As it was England had turned around a potentialy dangerous situation into one of real strength where runs werre flowing freely. Prior has often been asked to sacrifice his wicket cheaply chasing these fast runs, this time he made his century. It can be very deflating for a team to have those individual targets (which lift the whole group) denied.
We are really only talking about a few overs difference here, they were never going to declare with a total that India could possibly reach. You have to back your bowlers to get out any opposition in the 4th innings with 120+ overs to bowl at. If you dont beleibve they can do that then an extra 10 wont make much difference.
We've seen this position several times from England before , including when they were down to 3 fit bowlers in Australia and they still ran through the opposition. Its not fair to say that they arent going for the juggular, they were standing on Indias throat and kicking them repeatedly in the head yesterday afternoon to firmly establish who is the dominant force in this test.

India will pull off something quite special if they survive this today. With several palyers injured even more so.
Tremlett doesnt look like hes been quite right for the whole test, and was slow yesterday, swanns not getting a lot of spin, andersons looking like a county trundler and Broad should bnever have been picked. Imagine how much England would be winning by if the bowling unit were at full strength. That is Indias main hope now, Englands bowlers failing to produce anyway near their best.

Matt Prior ..what a player hes turned into. Without a doubt hes firmly established as the best test batsman who keep wicket now. Dhoni and Mccullum may have far better limited overs records, but in tests Prior is king and now a now a genuine keeper to boot.

Good post Mr Wheeler.

I particularly agree that "crushing and tiring out" the opposition has become the main approach. We did it particularly effectively against the Aussies in Aus, and making the Indians (who are perhaps the least fit of the major sides) toil in the field for days on end is likely to be particularly effective.

It's what the great Windy and Aus sides did to us for decades: Put us in the field to roast for two days to build a huge total, then when we were knackered and their bowlers were fresh they'd knock us over in a session and a half and we'd be back in the field for another day and a half. Utterly soul destroying.

The Indiaan batters will have to bat out of their skins today if they have to save this one. for me Gautam Gambhir is the key, along with support from the rest. But Gautam may be feeling the aftereffects of that hit, and will have to bat with a lot of discomfort. The longer VVS and Dravid stay out there, the better for India.
Without Sehwag, they won't even think of going for the win. even when India chased down 387 against KP's England 3 years ago, it was Sehwag who set the trend by blasting a firey 68 which was backed up by a match-winning unbeaten hundred from Tendulkar, and good contributions from Yuvraj Singh and Gautam Gambhir. Sehwag isn't playing, Tendulkar and Gambhir are not fully fit. so I say no chance of them going for the win. from ball one India will look to survive

msp: I think if India bat in a purely defensive frame of mind they are more likely to lose than if they approach the situation positively and see how things are going at lunch. If they have not lost many wickets - no more than one or perhaps two at most - they can mount a serious assault on the total. There's no doubt in my mind the talent and experience is there for the Indians to win.

Still, from an England point of view, we must be hoping to win from here. I certainly am! What are the chances of a Swanny five for? Pretty good, I'd say!

What a fantastic game this is.

When India played here the last time around, it was a painstaking uncharacteristic knock from Mahendra Singh Dhoni and his last wicket partnership with the mavrick pacer Shanthakumaran Sreesanth that saved the day for India. Dhoni has had a rather poor match with the gloves, and he didn't convert the start with the bat in the first innings. Will he redeem himself at the home of cricket?

Cowshot wrote:msp: I think if India bat in a purely defensive frame of mind they are more likely to lose than if they approach the situation positively and see how things are going at lunch. If they have not lost many wickets - no more than one or perhaps two at most - they can mount a serious assault on the total. There's no doubt in my mind the talent and experience is there for the Indians to win.

Still, from an England point of view, we must be hoping to win from here. I certainly am! What are the chances of a Swanny five for? Pretty good, I'd say!

What a fantastic game this is.

Hi there cowsshot.
well, do you remember what they did in the West Indies in the last test of the series? I agree with your point that over defens will create additional pressure, and if they take that path, there is very little chance of India coming away with anythig from this match. VVS Laxman is the kind of batsman who would play his shots more often than not, but I don't know what approach the wall and Sachin are going to take. They have tried to bat out time without bothering about the runs in the past, and often that backfired. you just keep defending all day, and the close in fielders will always be there to take the first chance you offer.

Remember when I said yesterday that this test was like Edgbaston 2005? It's not, it's Old Trafford 2005.

"The queues outside Lord's this morning? Extraordinary. The 20,000 tickets went on sale at 0830 this morning, and by 1000 they were turning them away at St John's Wood Tube station. The queue is four deep and stretches from the North Gate all the way up the Wellington Road, past the hospital, along the side of the garage, past the newsagents...

hugely intresting day of test cricket today...

cant wait

msp: Agree. That's why I think India have to bat positively.

Was just agreeing with Tufnell on the radio that all three results were still possible when it occurred to me: Anyone seen what the odds are for a tie?

magnifcent start from tremlett just 1 from the first over

Anderson struggling to find his length in the first few deliverys.

needed a 3rd slip, then laxman would have gone!

Not thinking of doing a trebs, but I honestly wouldn't be surprised if VVS is still there at the close.

I do wish Strauss would start with a third slip more often.

Tremlett bowling superb here, unlucky not to take a wicket.

Did Laxman offer his bat knowing there was no 3rd slip though? He does seem to go through that area quite a bit.

inside edge missed at short leg :/

England with a chance hard catch for Bell though.

tremlett finding his rhythym

dravids gone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

COME ON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

2 down Anderson gets Dravid!

Pressure and psychology

HUGE wicket. Huge.

Very well done Tremlett. He's bowling the occasional absolute jaffa.

The wall has been worn down. Get in Jimmy!

Oops! Was it Jimmy? It was. My mistake.

YES

That's the key guy gone - for all the greatness of the other Indian batsmen, Dravid was the one with the technical correctness to play the match-saving rearguard innings. Definitely advantage England now, as even if Tendulkar plays well we can keep chipping them out at the other end.

Dravid goes early, Saving this test seems more and more dificult by the minute. Anderson among the wickets, and Chris Tremlett is giving a tough time to the batsman. Stuart Broad and Graeme Swann haven't even taken the ball. will someone stand up and be counted? I believe Ishant Sharma will be the one to save this one for India.

msp83 wrote: I believe Ishant Sharma will be the one to save this one for India.

dummy_half wrote:YES

That's the key guy gone - for all the greatness of the other Indian batsmen, Dravid was the one with the technical correctness to play the match-saving rearguard innings. Definitely advantage England now, as even if Tendulkar plays well we can keep chipping them out at the other end.

Laxman is also notoriously difficult to shift in situations like today.

Gambhir doesnt look comfortable, Laxman the key atm.

Sachin hundred later?

Sachin Tendulkar can bat in another 45 mins. hopes he gets some more time.