Most unpopular boxers?

Throughout history boxing has always had its major draws, from Jack Dempsey in the earlier part of the 20th century, to Muhammad Ali in the 1970's, through to 'Iron' Mike Tyson and Floyd 'Money' Mayweather of the current era - boxers with appeal to the masses and the casual fan.

The one constant between the above fighters is that they operated at the pinnacle of the sport, blessed with attributes that their peers could only dream of, yet it hasn't always been the case that incredible skill brings instant fame and appeal. Lennox Lewis, for example, an undisputed Heavyweight champion of the world, with the attributes and skill to give any Heavyweight in history a hard time, had a well documented struggle to gain recognition in his native country (which, for the purposes of this article, is Great Britain), let alone the world. Charisma does of course play a huge part in becoming a draw in the sport of boxing, and that may be something that Lennox lacked slightly in comparison the the aforementioned fighters.

So, my question is, which boxers that have been blessed with great ability, have failed to 'draw flies', for one reason or another?

Ronald "Winky" Wright. Blessed with an awful lot of talent but never the most popular of fighters. Ended up in some big fights in big venues, but I would think mainly due to the opposition. Perhaps his jab, jab and more jab style allied to the fact he was a lefty was part of the problem. Never the most charismatic guy either. Great fighter though.

Part of Lewis's problem was the confusion about his nationality. Certainly at the beginning of his career and early part of his title reign, he always struggled to shake of the Canadian tag, understandably so considering he won olympic gold under the Maple Leaf, but it hampered his popularity for sure. He was/is a relatively charisma-free zone as well which obviously doesn't help, and I say this as an unashamedly huge fan of Lennox as a fighter. He was the first guy I ever went to see live, but he rarely enthralled me when he opened his mouth. Beating Bruno didn't help his popularity over here either. Although I, for one, was delighted he did.

Winky Wright is a very good example, Tino. If he was fighting in your back garden you would have got up and closed the curtains, despite his obvious boxing talent.

I think you have hit the nail on the head with the nationality comment regarding Lewis, it did appear that he was much harder to warm to rather than our very own Frank, despite being lightyears ahead of Frank in terms of potential and ability.

Think another thing with Lennox is the point the Captain makes fairly reasonable that there was an element of Wlad about him, although obviously not to such an extreme where there were occasions he was in with opponents either overmatched or who he had figured out where you got the impression had he stepped on the gas he could have got them out of there in more impressive fashion and for whatever reason he sometimes did not do this. Don't know why but he is a guy i never massively warmed to, just seemed a little aloof and someone easier to respect than love.

Controverisal one but Roy Jones perhaps never had the massive appeal to match his talent, think it was the gap in talent between him and those he fought but he apparently rarely did massive PPV numbers and never acheieved the cross over appeal his talent should have justified.

What is interesting is in the case of Ali and Dempsey they both had periods in their career where they were wildly unpopular, Dempsey for the alleged draft dodging and Ali for his Nation of Islam and refusal to go to Vietnam, which kind of suggests there may be a way back for Anthony Smalls, or maybe not.

Fists of Fury wrote:Winky Wright is a very good example, Tino. If he was fighting in your back garden you would have got up and closed the curtains, despite his obvious boxing talent.

I think you have hit the nail on the head with the nationality comment regarding Lewis, it did appear that he was much harder to warm to rather than our very own Frank, despite being lightyears ahead of Frank in terms of potential and ability.

I remember watching Winky against Steve Foster in Manchester back in the late 90's. Foster was the local hero and when Winky was announced, there was an collective "who" from the casuals in attendence. Wright then put on a masterclass and stopped Foster in about 5 rounds from memory.

I think and hope Lennox will be able to console himself with being so highly rated as a fighter, regardless of how he is perceived as a man. I think people are now beginning to realise just what a great example of a dedicated heavyweight he was and what a terrific fighter.

Joe Bugner was a another one. Never really appreciated and loved that much, partly due to the Cooper match and his style I guess.

Purist boxers, someone like Calderon only really grabbed any attention right towards the end of his career. And that was mainly down to him ageing and being forced into Segura's kinda fight, which did admittedly finally warm him to the fans who saw a fantastic scrap first time round.

And Rowley, RJJ didn't do big numbers because he kept repeatedly fighting sodding patseys. How many superfights did he have?

rowley wrote:Think another thing with Lennox is the point the Captain makes fairly reasonable that there was an element of Wlad about him, although obviously not to such an extreme where there were occasions he was in with opponents either overmatched or who he had figured out where you got the impression had he stepped on the gas he could have got them out of there in more impressive fashion and for whatever reason he sometimes did not do this. Don't know why but he is a guy i never massively warmed to, just seemed a little aloof and someone easier to respect than love.

Controverisal one but Roy Jones perhaps never had the massive appeal to match his talent, think it was the gap in talent between him and those he fought but he apparently rarely did massive PPV numbers and never acheieved the cross over appeal his talent should have justified.

What is interesting is in the case of Ali and Dempsey they both had periods in their career where they were wildly unpopular, Dempsey for the alleged draft dodging and Ali for his Nation of Islam and refusal to go to Vietnam, which kind of suggests there may be a way back for Anthony Smalls, or maybe not.

If Anthony Small wants to work his way back into public acceptance, then there's a bacon sarnie here waiting for him.

rowley wrote: someone easier to respect than love.

Spot on Jeff. You have said in 6 words exactly what I was rambling on about. Bruno was/is probably more the other way round.

Ha, firstly Jeff, I am starting to worry for you. It would appear that you have caught what I now refer to as the 's' syndrome, whereby fighters names suddenly change to David Hayes, Anthony Smalls etc. It was rife on the old 606, and appears to be a contagious one!

That is a great point you make about the periods of unpopularity, bordering on hate, during the reigns of Dempsey and Ali. Despite both of them winning the majority over eventually, it does go to show that 'all publicity is good publicity' rings true to an extent, and that fans will always tune in to watch those characters, regardless of whether they're in support or hoping to see them get their block knocked off.

Must admit I am surprised about Jones not doing huge PPV, I had never looked into it, and I suppose I just presumed that he would have been a huge draw in the States due to his incredible style and superhuman ability.

How about Bernard Hopkins? Not sure what his popularity was like in the States, though obviously he is very popular at this moment in time, most likely due to his incredible feat of still boxing, and winning, at the highest level whilst collecting his free bus pass simultaneously.

Sorry fists, in my defence I really can't be bothered to even try and learn Anthony Small/Smalls correct name. Do get ridiculously annoyed with the Eubanks - Hayes thing though.

coxy0001 wrote:Purist boxers, someone like Calderon only really grabbed any attention right towards the end of his career. And that was mainly down to him ageing and being forced into Segura's kinda fight, which did admittedly finally warm him to the fans who saw a fantastic scrap first time round.

And Rowley, RJJ didn't do big numbers because he kept repeatedly fighting sodding patseys. How many superfights did he have?

Calderon is a good hit Coxy. My old favourite, Ricardo Lopez was similar. He was reasonably popular in Mexico, but nothing like the adulation Chavez and others received. Probably due to his size and weight division, but boy did he have the skills to match up to any Mexican in history. I remember watching those old Don King shows in the 90's when there would be about 4 world title fights on the bill. Lopez would always be the first one up and the fight that my mates would have no interest in. I used to sit there and be amazed at how good the guy was. A true great who didn't get the recognition he deserved.

He wasn't unpopular so to speak, but for such an outrageous talent, Pernell Whitaker never drew huge crowds or attention; that unusual back foot style of his, the lack of a killer punch and the fact that he was with Main Events rather than King or Arum all contributed to it, I reckon.

If we go more down the truly unpopular route, rather than just fighters who weren't big draws, then how about Jake La Motta in Europe? He was positively detested by the French, who never forgave him for dethroning Cerdan, particularly as they felt that their hero had been hard done by due to that shoulder injury. When La Motta snatched a title victory from under the nose of another Frenchman in Dauthuille in 1950 (again, in slightly controversial circumstances) it only made things worse.

How about Manny Pacquaio, I presume he is despised in Mexico?

Cracking example of LaMotta, and with a nice twist to it, too, in that he wasn't unpopular for his style, just unpopular in France for beating their main boys!

Neither Tunney nor Charles were fully appreciated when they were active, though the passing of time has been kinder to them and they now receive their dues.

Fighting Harada is another one who rarely gets a mention, these days, and probably never truly set the world on fire, despite his having been a wonderful little fighter.

It really is quite surprising, especially in the case of Tunney and Charles, that they weren't huge draws during their time, considering that we now rate the both of them well within our top 10 fighters of all time. Were there any other factors at work, do you know, or was it simply a case of not knowing what you've got 'til it's gone?

HumanWindmill wrote:Fighting Harada is another one who rarely gets a mention, these days, and probably never truly set the world on fire, despite his having been a wonderful little fighter.

Interesting shout there, Windy. Obviously I'm too young to have known whether or not he was fully appreciated in his time, but these days I do find his lack of recognition quite surprising. Just about a top ten Bantamweight of all time for me, a damn good Flyweight too, and would have been Featherweight champion had it not been for that rank injustice (and shocking refereeing performance by Willie Pep) first time out against Famechon.

Cracking little fighter.

Fists of Fury wrote:It really is quite surprising, especially in the case of Tunney and Charles, that they weren't huge draws during their time, considering that we now rate the both of them well within our top 10 fighters of all time. Were there any other factors at work, do you know, or was it simply a case of not knowing what you've got 'til it's gone?

I'd say that in both cases they suffered ' Larry Holmes ' syndrome, Fists.

Tunney followed Dempsey and Charles followed Louis. Additionally, neither of them held a title in his best weight division.

To top it off, Tunney's friendships with George Bernard Shaw and Hemingway inspired ridicule, one eminent writer of the day scathingly commenting : " We need heavyweights with more wallop and less Shakespeare. "

Sonny Liston off the top of my head would be one. Largely unpopular throughout his career despite being very talented. His first fight with Ali distinctly failed to capture the hearts of the public despite the historical significance it holds now in the sport.

Theres the well known story about Liston arriving home after winning the title and little more than a handful of people to greet him at the airport.

The reading thing was a massive black mark against Tunney in the eyes of many journalists Windy, have to remember many of the journalists who had covered Tunney had covered the sport way back to the days of Sullivan and so were used to fighters of slightly less refined tastes, to put it delicately.

Also some questioned how much of it with Tunney was an affectation, read a story from one who interviewed Tunney and he had a fairly hefty Shakespeare tome with a bookmark near the front of the book, only to arrive a few days later to see him with a different book with a book mark near the end of the book, the inference being Tunney was either not reading the books and carried them to suggest a level of erudition that perhaps was not deserved. Not sure how true this was or whether it was just a reaction to being confronted with a heavyweight who did not fit the stereotype but does suggest the cynicism his intellect and reading inspired.

What about George Foreman as a guy who changed opinions. The brooding and surly first incarnation wasn't fantastically popular but second time around was everybodies favourite grandfather.

Not short on talent either.

rowley wrote:The reading thing was a massive black mark against Tunney in the eyes of many journalists Windy, have to remember many of the journalists who had covered Tunney had covered the sport way back to the days of Sullivan and so were used to fighters of slightly less refined tastes, to put it delicately.

Also some questioned how much of it with Tunney was an affectation, read a story from one who interviewed Tunney and he had a fairly hefty Shakespeare tome with a bookmark near the front of the book, only to arrive a few days later to see him with a different book with a book mark near the end of the book, the inference being Tunney was either not reading the books and carried them to suggest a level of erudition that perhaps was not deserved. Not sure how true this was or whether it was just a reaction to being confronted with a heavyweight who did not fit the stereotype but does suggest the cynicism his intellect and reading inspired.

Perhaps he had several books on the go at the same time. I've done that before. Short attention span.

88Chris05 wrote:

HumanWindmill wrote:Fighting Harada is another one who rarely gets a mention, these days, and probably never truly set the world on fire, despite his having been a wonderful little fighter.

Interesting shout there, Windy. Obviously I'm too young to have known whether or not he was fully appreciated in his time, but these days I do find his lack of recognition quite surprising. Just about a top ten Bantamweight of all time for me, a damn good Flyweight too, and would have been Featherweight champion had it not been for that rank injustice (and shocking refereeing performance by Willie Pep) first time out against Famechon.

Cracking little fighter.

My memory is a bit too hazy for me to remember how he was perceived at the time, Chris, my having been a very young fan when he beat the immortal Jofre, but I'm guessing that the very fact that I can't remember would suggest that he didn't make a great splash at the time.

Harada was a big star in Asia, but his lack of travelling meant he was less well known elsewhere. His second bout with Jofre and fight with Rose received decent attention worldwide from what I remember but I would liken him to the modern day Chris John or Wonjongkam.

Prior to the Jofre fights he had not really done much to be in the spotlight but post Jofre he was a huge star in Japan.

I would go for Juan Manual Marquez for this one.

Although his stock is at a respectable level now, due to the Barrera & Morales era he unfortunately was shunned to the side while the two rockstars got all the credit.

BALTIMORA wrote:

rowley wrote:The reading thing was a massive black mark against Tunney in the eyes of many journalists Windy, have to remember many of the journalists who had covered Tunney had covered the sport way back to the days of Sullivan and so were used to fighters of slightly less refined tastes, to put it delicately.

Also some questioned how much of it with Tunney was an affectation, read a story from one who interviewed Tunney and he had a fairly hefty Shakespeare tome with a bookmark near the front of the book, only to arrive a few days later to see him with a different book with a book mark near the end of the book, the inference being Tunney was either not reading the books and carried them to suggest a level of erudition that perhaps was not deserved. Not sure how true this was or whether it was just a reaction to being confronted with a heavyweight who did not fit the stereotype but does suggest the cynicism his intellect and reading inspired.

Perhaps he had several books on the go at the same time. I've done that before. Short attention span.

Bit easier to do with the Little Hungry Caterpillar rather than the Bard Balti.

The robots have ruled with an iron fist for a long time now & though they get their dues i'm sure as world HW champs for so long they dont seem like a massive draw really. Could be due to styles or lack of travel?

prince naz was hated by a fair few people, but that was his brash style. think the more he proved himself the less people hated him, but there still is a fair few people who cant stand him.

i think 99% of the heavyweights at the moment are quite unpopular, seems nobody is really interested in the division, even wlad could be called unpopular everywhere but german/ukraine.

i actually think lennox has a great personality, i like the fact that a boxer that skilled and dominant is kind worded, reflective and chilled out- makes a change from the usual.

rowley wrote:Sorry fists, in my defence I really can't be bothered to even try and learn Anthony Small/Smalls correct name. Do get ridiculously annoyed with the Eubanks - Hayes thing though.

Arthur Abrahams must be another?

Difficult to assess the Klitschkos. In the U.S and over here they are not particularly popular at all and would struggle to sell unless against a domestic fighter. But on mainland Europe they are enormously popular and regularly sell out large venues even against very average and outmatched opposition.

Lumbering_Jack wrote:

rowley wrote:Sorry fists, in my defence I really can't be bothered to even try and learn Anthony Small/Smalls correct name. Do get ridiculously annoyed with the Eubanks - Hayes thing though.

Arthur Abrahams must be another?

The worst surely has to be Amir "Kahn"!!!

Not so much ' unpopular ' as hugely under appreciated, Mike McCallum might be one who belongs in this company.

Miguel Canto. A light punching Mexican Flyweight is not really a recipe for soaring popularity, despite a tremendous amount of skill.

Someone on a thread in the distant past (may have been Colonial Lion or the Captain but I can't be certain) mentioned that they had been in Mexico and Canto was hardly a revered figure despite his skill and title reign.

I'd said Wlad's popularity has taken a boost in the UK since the Haye fight. I was always indifferent to him, but the build up really made me like him.

tim bradley, unified champion and people only recognise the name from "ducking" khan

Andre Ward - Thought to be the top Super Middle, has no marketability outside of his local playground. And still cries like a bitch over how "People aren't giving me enough respect

Carl Froch

jay-z wrote:Carl Froch

I wouldn't say Froch is unpopular, just hasn't had the mainstream coverage. That should change now he is with Hearn and Sky.

I would say, apart from with Steffan, he is a relatively popular fighter.

I'd give the unpopular tag to Junior Witter. Unlucky to have been around at the same time as Footie Fans' favourite Ricky Hatton, he had great slippery skills but the public just didn't warm to him.

Lost his WBC title to Bradley because he looked like he couldn't be bothered, which didn't help his popularity...

Mind the windows Tino. wrote:

jay-z wrote:Carl Froch

I wouldn't say Froch is unpopular, just hasn't had the mainstream coverage. That should change now he is with Hearn and Sky.

I would say, apart from with Steffan, he is a relatively popular fighter.

Yeah, that was the angle I was looking at it from, not that people view him as a pr**k but just generally isn't popular as in well known my many. And good on sky for finally getting onto him, though why has it taken this long?????


p.s any1 have the latest on Bradley/Khan situation, this fight must happen, I actually rate Bradley (unlike some on here) and should Khan beat him he will have my full support and belief in him as a fighter.

Mr Bounce wrote:I'd give the unpopular tag to Junior Witter. Unlucky to have been around at the same time as Footie Fans' favourite Ricky Hatton, he had great slippery skills but the public just didn't warm to him.

Lost his WBC title to Bradley because he looked like he couldn't be bothered, which didn't help his popularity...

He's not exactly the easiest to warm to - must admit i did have a bit of a giggle when he fell out the ring in the Prizefighter final...

In fairness to Lennox he tried to shrug the Canadian thing by fighting for British, Commenwealth and European titles before his assault on the World scene, something Bruno didn't entertain.

Perhaps people didn't like him because he was a boxer first and foremost and wasn't interested in being a celebrity.

Stylistically Lewis was much more entertaining before he teamed up with Steward too, by which time he was a major name on the world scene.

jay-z wrote:Carl Froch

Maybe at first, until he started backing it up with his fists.

Mind the windows Tino. wrote:

jay-z wrote:Carl Froch

I wouldn't say Froch is unpopular, just hasn't had the mainstream coverage. That should change now he is with Hearn and Sky.

I would say, apart from with Steffan, he is a relatively popular fighter.

Dunno what your on about I love the guy. Best thing since Sugar Ray Robinson if you ask me


Regards

Steffan