Ireland Team for 1st France Test

Let me be first to say that I'll be disappointed if we don't name a strong looking team for this one.

I'm not saying we should name the same team that played England in the 6 Nations, more that we should give any new combinations a chance by being surrounded by first teamers.

What time is named?

Anyone know who is ruled out? I don't think BOD, ROG, D'arcy or Ferris are available. Anyone else definitely out?

Court, horan, Stringer, BOD, Ferris and Darcy are definitely ruled out.

Maybe Murphy and ROG???

I want a strong side but also with some experimentation (mainly positional)

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Court, horan, Stringer, BOD, Ferris and Darcy are definitely ruled out.

Maybe Murphy and ROG???

I want a strong side but also with some experimentation (mainly positional)

Well if BOD is definitely out then it might be no harm to give the same centre pairing a run out in front of a better pack, as Notch was saying during the week.

Personally, I'd like to see Wallace paired with Earls.

Is that definitive Pete?

i know Court, Horan and stringer are with the provinces and the noises have suggested that certainly BOD wont play. Could we see something from left field and Ferris perhaps benching? I dont think so but are we certain?

I don't know about that Stand.

From what Paul McN was saying a few weeks ago it sounds like Ferris is unlikely to feature until the last 2 warm ups, if at all.

It's a bit contradictory to what Ferris is saying on Twitter but a player is always going to be overstating their fitness as opposed to understating it.

I reckon a backrow of Leamy-SOB-Heaslip with Wallace or even McCarthy benching is more likely.

Stand I'm pretty sure Ferris and BOD are pencilled in for next week. Murphy too and I'm presuming ROG.

Is Bowe available?

I'd like to see Earls at 13 alongside Wallace and then maybe McFadden brought off the bench at 12.

I have a sinking feeling we might see the same centre partnership start again.

Wasn't it fairly definite that he wouldn't make this game?

MMC-
It is fairer to give McF a shot again but with Earls and Bowe back I'd prefer to try one of them. Do want to give earls a shot at 15 too.

I think I'd want Bowe at 13 instead of Earls anyways.

I dont know any more than you guys. Hope it is a strong team mind you

It will be a strong team I'd say but don't be surprised if you see someone like Ryan in the 22 or Hayes or McFadden or Jones.

It will be a strong team thouh.
Selection at 13 is going to be very, very interesting. I'm betting on Earls.

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Do want to give earls a shot at 15 too.

I'm not sure we really need to do this. At least not until the England game maybe, and even then I'm not so sure. I'd rather look at getting Kearney back to match fitness and seeing what Jones can do against top class opposition. Earls to fullback would be good against someone like Australia and I'd be confident that he could slot in there without too much game time in that position in the warm ups.

I'd rather him tried at 13. Which brings me to your next point.

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:I think I'd want Bowe at 13 instead of Earls anyways.

I have to say, I really don't see why we should play Bowe at 13. Every time I've seen him there I've been underwhelmed. Whereas when we plays on the wing he's phenomenal. What makes Bowe so great is that he times his runs inside to perfection. When he hits a line through the centres it's at a time that's most surprising to the opposition. I firmly believe that he'd be far less effective at this if he was playing at centre for the whole game.

Earls is a better than Bowe at 13 IMO. And Bowe is a better winger than Earls. I don't see why we should move one of the best wingers in the world from his preferred position. Especially when we have a guy with loads of Heineken Cup experience playing there in the squad.

I think people are putting far far too much emphasis on the games that Earls played there while completely unfit.

I'm also hoping for a very strong side. The most important thing for me is that we pick our first choice tight five for this match.

I don't really care if Earls or McFadden starts at 13. They both have quite similar styles anyway.

MMC wrote:I have to say, I really don't see why we should play Bowe at 13. Every time I've seen him there I've been underwhelmed. Whereas when we plays on the wing he's phenomenal. What makes Bowe so great is that he times his runs inside to perfection. When he hits a line through the centres it's at a time that's most surprising to the opposition. I firmly believe that he'd be far less effective at this if he was playing at centre for the whole game.

Precisely. The exact same thing is true of Trimble.

It has to be O'Driscoll, Earls or McFadden at 13. Those are our options there.

I think earls needs some time at 15 just to gauge our options.
Not sure how much of a chance Murphy is going to get at this stage due to kearney doing so well last week.
I think Kearney will probably play the England game and the next French one.

They don't want him playing more game than that (or maybe they do ebcause he hasn't played in so long)

Notch wrote:I'm also hoping for a very strong side. The most important thing for me is that we pick our first choice tight five for this match.

I don't really care if Earls or McFadden starts at 13. They both have quite similar styles anyway.

I wouldn't agree on them having similar styles actually. Quite different to be honest.

MMC wrote:
I have to say, I really don't see why we should play Bowe at 13. Every time I've seen him there I've been underwhelmed. Whereas when we plays on the wing he's phenomenal. What makes Bowe so great is that he times his runs inside to perfection. When he hits a line through the centres it's at a time that's most surprising to the opposition. I firmly believe that he'd be far less effective at this if he was playing at centre for the whole game.

Earls is a better than Bowe at 13 IMO. And Bowe is a better winger than Earls. I don't see why we should move one of the best wingers in the world from his preferred position. Especially when we have a guy with loads of Heineken Cup experience playing there in the squad.

I think people are putting far far too much emphasis on the games that Earls played there while completely unfit.

MMC I agree with that but there's no harm in looking at all our available options and that includes Bowe and Trimble as well as Earls.

Sometimes different combinations click better than others. For example Earls looked the part alongside JDV but was pretty poor alongside Mafi. Wallace and McFadden lacked penetration for me.

It's horses for courses too. Bowe and Trimble will bring different attributes to the table than Earls. Earls is a better footballer and phenomenal in broken play but does tend to struggle when shackled against an organised defence, whereas Trimble can really burst through tacklers and attack the gainline. Bowe sees gaps better than both.

I don't think we should rule anyone out without looking at them.

MBTGOG wrote:
I wouldn't agree on them having similar styles actually. Quite different to be honest.

Me neither. I see very little in common between the two.

Markage

MBTGOG wrote:

Notch wrote:I'm also hoping for a very strong side. The most important thing for me is that we pick our first choice tight five for this match.

I don't really care if Earls or McFadden starts at 13. They both have quite similar styles anyway.

I wouldn't agree on them having similar styles actually. Quite different to be honest.

In what sense MBT? I'm not disagreeing with you, I'm just interested to know what you think those styles are exactly.

I think Earls is more of a footballer than McFadden. I also think that Earls is far more likely to take the ball on himself instead of passing to those outside.

I think the jury is still out on whether McFadden has the same eye for an outside break as Earls does, though he certainly has the pace for it.

I see him as more creative than Earls really. But not necessarily as effective. But that's an unfair statement in itself as we haven't seen enough of him there yet.

The biggest danger they pose from centre is in their outside break, their pace- and when they make that linebreak they have a fine eye for the line. They are both quite capable of really hurting teams in broken play, offloading the ball, bringing in the players around them.

McFadden is a more heads-up kind of rugby player, I'd be comfortable with him playing at 12 in a way I wouldn't with Earls. Earls is more of a strike runner. But they are as close as like to like as any of the other players being discussed for the role.

roddersm wrote:MMC I agree with that but there's no harm in looking at all our available options and that includes Bowe and Trimble as well as Earls.

Sometimes different combinations click better than others. For example Earls looked the part alongside JDV but was pretty poor alongside Mafi. Wallace and McFadden lacked penetration for me.

It's horses for courses too. Bowe and Trimble will bring different attributes to the table than Earls. Earls is a better footballer and phenomenal in broken play but does tend to struggle when shackled against an organised defence, whereas Trimble can really burst through tacklers and attack the gainline. Bowe sees gaps better than both.

I don't think we should rule anyone out without looking at them.

I'm not saying we should rule anyone out per se. What I am saying though is that we don't have the luxury of an entire season of games to decide who is best suited to replace BOD should the unthinkable happen. Of course the lack of experimentation up until now is best left to another thread.

What I'm saying is that since BOD is likely to be back for the last 2 warm up games it's best to make sure that we play the player who's most likely to replace him there during the world cup. And the most qualified player in terms of experience to do that is Earls.

I'd love to be able to give Bowe a few games in a row at 13, then likewise for Trimble, and McFadden and Earls but we have 3 tests left, 2 of which BOD will be playing in. That's the stark reality of the situation.

I do agree with you on principle rodders, I'm not just being an argumentative so-and-so. Even if it might seem like it.

MMC wrote:

MBTGOG wrote:

Notch wrote:I'm also hoping for a very strong side. The most important thing for me is that we pick our first choice tight five for this match.

I don't really care if Earls or McFadden starts at 13. They both have quite similar styles anyway.

I wouldn't agree on them having similar styles actually. Quite different to be honest.

In what sense MBT? I'm not disagreeing with you, I'm just interested to know what you think those styles are exactly.

I think Earls is more of a footballer than McFadden. I also think that Earls is far more likely to take the ball on himself instead of passing to those outside.

I think the jury is still out on whether McFadden has the same eye for an outside break as Earls does, though he certainly has the pace for it.

I see him as more creative than Earls really. But not necessarily as effective. But that's an unfair statement in itself as we haven't seen enough of him there yet.

I'd agree with most of this. I'd also add that McFadden's lower point of gravity makes him a better ball carrier into contact which is something Earls has really had to work hard on. Their kick styles differ in that Earls is quite big on the grubbers through for himself to chase while McFadden's attempts are much more cultured and shall we say, team orientated.

MBTGOG wrote:I'd agree with most of this. I'd also add that McFadden's lower point of gravity makes him a better ball carrier into contact which is something Earls has really had to work hard on. Their kick styles differ in that Earls is quite big on the grubbers through for himself to chase while McFadden's attempts are much more cultured and shall we say, team orientated.

Yeah, I pretty much agree with all of that.

Notch wrote:

MBTGOG wrote:I'd agree with most of this. I'd also add that McFadden's lower point of gravity makes him a better ball carrier into contact which is something Earls has really had to work hard on. Their kick styles differ in that Earls is quite big on the grubbers through for himself to chase while McFadden's attempts are much more cultured and shall we say, team orientated.

Yeah, I pretty much agree with all of that.

Me too.

Excellent point on the contrasting kicking styles.

MBTGOG wrote:I'd agree with most of this. I'd also add that McFadden's lower point of gravity makes him a better ball carrier into contact which is something Earls has really had to work hard on. Their kick styles differ in that Earls is quite big on the grubbers through for himself to chase while McFadden's attempts are much more cultured and shall we say, team orientated.

Nicely put. I'd buy all of that.

"Earls is a better footballer and phenomenal in broken play but does tend to struggle when shackled against an organised defence"

I don't think I could agree with this anymore.
It is the rason why I think he can but should not play centre.

MMC wrote:I'd love to be able to give Bowe a few games in a row at 13, then likewise for Trimble, and McFadden and Earls but we have 3 tests left, 2 of which BOD will be playing in. That's the stark reality of the situation.

I do agree with you on principle rodders, I'm not just being an argumentative so-and-so. Even if it might seem like it.

No you're quite right but I think we have enough gametime left to look at a couple of options. BOD is out on saturday and I see no point in looking at McFadden again in the 13 jersey. If that combo couldn't make any headway against a weakened scottish side then it won't take us far in the WC. I really hope we'll see someone else, preferably Earls.

It's been clear for some time that we've been lacking penetration in midfield so we need to start putting square pegs into square holes. Even with BOD back the option of slotting a more dangerous strike runner in there needs to be explored.

Before this becomes the "i like your use of metaphor and literatry timbre" thread I'd just like to say you're a jerk.

Mickado wrote:Before this becomes the "i like your use of metaphor and literatry timbre" thread I'd just like to say you're a jerk.

Couldn't disagree more you berk.

Mickado wrote:Before this becomes the "i like your use of metaphor and literatry timbre" thread I'd just like to say you're a jerk.

+1

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:"Earls is a better footballer and phenomenal in broken play but does tend to struggle when shackled against an organised defence"

I don't think I could agree with this anymore.
It is the rason why I think he can but should not play centre.

Yeah I'm contradicting myself aren't I? Earls is the most viable option.

I actually think the solution to our midfield is one of Trimble, Horgan, Downey or Spence at 12 or Bowe at 13 but I'll be heckled out of 606v2 so I won't mention it...

Although when the penny does finally drop I'll be popping up to say I told you so....

And rightly so. We want penetration, but we also want the ball to get beyond anyone wearing the number 12 jersey.

None of those players has the full skillset to play 12 at test level. Hell, I'm not comfortable seeing Spence or Whitten line up at 12 for Ulster.

I just prefer having strike runners at 13, 11 or 14 because I think they are much harder to mark or anticipate than at 12.

Berk? You’ve been living in England too long buddy!

Trimble and Horgan at center? Good god no. Trimble has a future on the wing for Ireland and as much as I love the guy, Horgan won’t play for Ireland again, and if he does It’ll be on the wing, not in the center.

I still have nightmares about that centre partnership you know. Trimble and Horgan in the centre for Ireland. Aw man, that is frightening stuff if I recollect correctly.

Mickado wrote:Berk? You’ve been living in England too long buddy!

Trimble and Horgan at center? Good god no. Trimble has a future on the wing for Ireland and as much as I love the guy, Horgan won’t play for Ireland again, and if he does It’ll be on the wing, not in the center.

Rhyming insults. It's the way forward, you gherk....... in (a bit harder that one).

Notch wrote:I still have nightmares about that centre partnership you know. Trimble and Horgan in the centre for Ireland. Aw man, that is frightening stuff if I recollect correctly.

That was the 2008 hiding by England wasn't it? <sideshow bob shudder>

Trimble's finest hour (internationally) came against SA in 06, he was on the wing that day though.

Hopefully Darcy stays injured for the Fremch matches i really dont want to see him being ran over by Roughire(Sp) again

Mickado wrote:
Trimble and Horgan at center?

Trimble or horgan. I told you I'd be heckled. Yee of little faith, sometimes the solutions are outside of the box and if you don't look then you won't find them .

If we are staying with in the box then Earls at 13 is a progression to what we currently have. I think he could potentially work well there with D'arcy, Wallace or BOD.

However if BOD is to continue at 13 then to get the best out of him you need a big guy beside him to break the line and offload and in SBW and Nonu's absence our best available options are the guys mentioned above.

McFadden and Wallace making no headway had a lot to do with the quality of ball they got and even the quantity of ball they got

C'mon You Irish wrote:Hopefully Darcy stays injured for the Fremch matches i really dont want to see him being ran over by Roughire(Sp) again

We'll just see Paddy Wallace get run over by him so.

Trimble is a winger,his best Irish performances have been on the wing and he had a good season there. Keep him on the wing.

No encouragement guys and you know what I'm referring to.

Trimble alongside BOD would be Orgasmic

Thomond wrote: Trimble is a winger,his best Irish performances have been on the wing and he had a good season there. Keep him on the wing.

I could say the same thing about Earls but then we'd be back to square one...

Mickado wrote:

Notch wrote:I still have nightmares about that centre partnership you know. Trimble and Horgan in the centre for Ireland. Aw man, that is frightening stuff if I recollect correctly.

That was the 2008 hiding by England wasn't it? <sideshow bob shudder>

Trimble's finest hour (internationally) came against SA in 06, he was on the wing that day though.

Yeah, I agree.

Best performance of the irish center’s (as a combo) over the last few years has been BOD@12 and Earls@13 (positionally if not in jersey number).

Lets see that again please and thanks Dekkie.

You get pleased easily,Irish. Rodders,no point in moving Trimble over now. Earls maybe as he has been moved around the backline for most of his career but Trimble has established some stability on the wing.

C'mon You Irish wrote:Trimble alongside BOD would be Orgasmic

Great minds think alike....oh wait