Ireland vs New Zealand 2nd Test: Team announcements and matchday thread.

[Biltong]

Sorry boys new thread other one is full.


Venue for the 2nd test: AMI Stadium (Addington) - formerly Rugby League Park Christchurch
Capacity: 26,000 incl. temporary seating
Weather http://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/2192362 (current forecast for Saturday evening is around 3 degrees C and light rain. But last week's snow has melted at least)


courtesy of Taylorman:

NZ team named- only one change- Thompson for Vito (injured) with Sam Cane on the bench...

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/7098902/Thomson-in-for-Vito-Cane-on-All-Blacks-bench

All Blacks: Israel Dagg, Zac Guildford, Conrad Smith, Sonny Bill Williams, Julian Savea, Dan Carter, Aaron Smith, Kieran Read, Richie McCaw (c), Adam Thomson, Sam Whitelock, Brodie Retallick, Owen Franks, Andrew Hore, Tony Woodcock.

Reserves: Hika Elliot, Ben Franks, Sam Cane, Ali Williams, Piri Weepu, Aaron Cruden, Ben Smith

Irish team:
15 - Rob Kearney (UCD/Leinster)
14 - Fergus McFadden (Old Belvedere/Leinster)
13 - Brian O'Driscoll (UCD/Leinster) (capt)
12 - Gordon D'Arcy (Lansdowne/Leinster)
11 - Andrew Trimble (Ballymena/Ulster)
10 - Jonathan Sexton (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
9 - Conor Murray (Garryowen/Munster)
1 - Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster
2 - Rory Best (Banbridge/Ulster)
3 - Mike Ross (Clontarf/Leinster)
4 - Dan Tuohy (Ballymena/Ulster)
5 - Donnacha Ryan (Shannon/Munster)
6 - Kevin McLaughlin (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
7 - Sean O'Brien (Clontarf/Leinster)
8 - Jamie Heaslip (Naas/Leinster)

Replacements:

16 - Sean Cronin (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
17 - Declan Fitzpatrick (Dungannon/Ulster)
18 - Donncha O'Callaghan (Cork Constitution/Munster)
19 - Peter O'Mahony (Cork Constitution/Munster)
20 - Eoin Reddan (Lansdowne/Leinster)
21 - Ronan O'Gara (Cork Constitution/Munster)
22 - Simon Zebo (Cork Constitution/Munster)


Tour Previews
http://www.v2journal.com/new-zealands-june-tests-preview.html
http://www.v2journal.com/irelands-summer-tour.html

[BoyneRFC]

Why was Gavin Duffy called up?

Why wasn't Dave Kearney given a go?

Why does Kidney always pick the wrong scrum half?

Why did O Gara get on? I am convinced Kidney has a bet going in relation to the amount of CHEAP CAPS O Gara gets....

Here's a thought... why not play centers in the center and wingers on the wing?

Kidney, get your coat.

[Artful_Dodger]

Duffy called up??

Ridiculous, absolutely ridiculous.

[rodders]

Looks like Duffys probably on the bench on Saturday.....

You don't think the tour is going well so far lads?

[Sin é]

Why was Gavin Duffy called up?

Because a centre/fullback got injured perhaps!

Why wasn't Dave Kearney given a go?

He doesn't cover centre perhaps? (and I might add, like his older brother, he doesn't have the nous to organise his wingers).

Why does Kidney look for in a scrum half?

Someone capable of defending a scrum - essential when your no. 8 is still pushing in the scrum while Kieran Read has the ball under his arm heading heading for the Ireland tryline.

Why did O Gara get on? I am convinced Kidney has a bet going in relation to the amount of CHEAP CAPS O Gara gets....

Contest over. Keep Sexton fresh for next week. No harm him having a sideline view in preparation for next week either.

Here's a thought... why not play centers in the center and wingers on the wing?

Bowe & Fitz are injured. Zebo & McFadden have been starting as wingers for their clubs, so I guess they are wingers. (For the record, Earls has been starting at centre for his club, as has BOD, and Kearney has been starting at fullback).

[BoyneRFC]

It's just a slap in the face really.

He had the audacity to suggest that it's the provinces fault that we are not doing well in New Zealand.

He has just joined Sean Fitz, Michael Lowry and Mick Wallace on my most wanted list...

[BoyneRFC]

Why was Gavin Duffy called up?

Because a centre/fullback got injured perhaps!

Why wasn't Dave Kearney given a go?

He doesn't cover centre perhaps? (and I might add, like his older brother, he doesn't have the nous to organise his wingers).

Why does Kidney look for in a scrum half?

Someone capable of defending a scrum - essential when your no. 8 is still pushing in the scrum while Kieran Read has the ball under his arm heading heading for the Ireland tryline.

Why did O Gara get on? I am convinced Kidney has a bet going in relation to the amount of CHEAP CAPS O Gara gets....

Contest over. Keep Sexton fresh for next week. No harm him having a sideline view in preparation for next week either.

Here's a thought... why not play centers in the center and wingers on the wing?

Bowe & Fitz are injured. Zebo & McFadden have been starting as wingers for their clubs, so I guess they are wingers. (For the record, Earls has been starting at centre for his club, as has BOD, and Kearney has been starting at fullback).

OK Smartarse, if you are going to quote me, try to use MY words???

Are you trying to say that Duffy covers center???? Nonesense. We have McF and Cave with Darce and BOD. Do we need another??

Read what I said again re: scrumhalf, halfwit.

Want to keep Sexton fresh?? Why didn't he bring Madigan?? Coaches error. Again.

OH, contest over boy.

[munster23]

To be fair of Dave Kearney,Craig gilroy and gavin Duffy only Duffy has played fullback regularly for his province. Jones would have been his replacement if he wasn't injured

[red_stag]

You know what we have the worst fans in the whole bloody world at international level.

[BoyneRFC]

Thjere is something really doggy going on with O Gara. Something really fishy.

I really hope DK is not caught with his pants down in Paddy Power....

[Thomond]

You know what we have the worst fans in the whole bloody world at international level.

Yes we do, we're so pessimistic and critical, at times it's warrented but I don't think I have ever seen anyone say good things about the team!

[BoyneRFC]

You know what we have the worst fans in the whole bloody world at international level.

If that was directed at me, back in your box, Stag.

I HATE what DK has done to Irish rugby and as a paid up member I have EVERY right to voice my discern.

[BoyneRFC]

Ah but sure t'will be grand.

[BoyneRFC]

Thomand, this time it's warranted. He has made too many mistakes that a school kid could have called.

And now, he basically has a cowardly swipe at the provinces??

If I made so many mistakes in my job, I'd be lambasted. Nay. I'd be CANNED !!!!

[red_stag]

Boyne, of course it was directed at you. If you have EVERY right to voice your concern I have every right to also.

[BoyneRFC]

Go for it.

Big dif bud: I am not running the team.

[pete (buachaill on eirne)]

Sin-

Just on the scrum issue. Heaslip obviously has to push in a scrum, that much is obvious. That means he can't see. I would have thought it the entire fault of Murray and POM for not calling Heaslip out. Murray didn't defend that scrum very well, where as Reddan seemed to do ok.

We also don't need centre cover we have ample centre cover we did need 15 cover. In a straight shoot out I'd choose Kearney Jr.

Point me to a better 15 in the NH than Kearney, the guys is pretty damn good, didn't have a great day but lay off him and what evidence do you have of Kearney Jr defending badly?

Sideline view for Sexton? He's going to be watching the video all week FFS. Idiotic point.

Do you really want Gavin Duffy coming on rather than Dave Kearney in a test match we don't look like winning anyways?

There was some good play from Ireland on Saturday, not all good by any stretch of the immagination but Earls' line off BOD was pretty tasty. Sexton put in some great linekicks. SOB had a whopper of a game. Fitzpatrick scrummaged really well on his first cap. Our lineout stood up really well with 3 jumpers who aren't very experienced. Kidney went experimental, not exactly what all of us wanted but he tried something.

It's not all doom and gloom. It's not positive and Kidney needs to really revamp our attack as we have to move faster or put on a stone of muscle in each backline position!

[Sin é]

OK Smartarse, if you are going to quote me, try to use MY words???

I didn't agree with the way the questions were phrased.

Are you trying to say that Duffy covers center???? Nonesense. We have McF and Cave with Darce and BOD. Do we need another?

?

50% of his starting caps for Ireland have been at centre. And as I've already pointed out, we lost a starting centre, not a starting wing or fullback.

Want to keep Sexton fresh?? Why didn't he bring Madigan?? Coaches error. Again.

OH, contest over boy.

Why didn't Madigan get any gametime in the Magners Final or the Heineken Cup final?
Has he learned to kick at club level yet?

[Thomond]

I'm not completely onboard with bringing Duffy but sure any time we bring in a new young guy he gets lambasted for feic sake look at all the shoite Zebo's taken this weekend. It's his first cap. Gilroy/Kearney would get the same backlash if they underperformed. I can see logic in taking Sexton off but O'Gara should not be on the tour. Murray and Reddan are both vital same way that Boss and Reddan are vital to Leinster. You need both on the pitch at different times of the game.

[BoyneRFC]

pete- its tough. They are better than us.

BUT, the coach could mitigate our shortcomings instead of exacerbating them !!!

[BoyneRFC]

Madigan can kick fine.

If you dont agree with the way I phrase my questions, you dont have the right to quote them. Its a nonsense.

50% of how many now???

[BoyneRFC]

Why didn't Madigan get any gametime in the Magners Final or the Heineken Cup final?

Because the coach (Schmidt) actually does something really radical compared to Kidney.

He picks the best team available for big games.

How many games for Leinster would O Gara get?

I'd have Leo the fekkin' Lion line out before him.

[Notch]

Paid up member of... the Irish Rugby Supporters Club is it? That things a scam. Can understand your frustration.

I agree with Stag. But here's the thing; the IRFU is a commercial organisation. It's very much tried to maximise profit from it's supporter base. To have a chance to buy tickets if you aren't involved in grassroots rugby you have to pay 50 euros to join a Supporters Club. Then you're looking at more for matchday tickets. They've had to drop the price on tickets- basically to stay competitive with provincial rugby- but remember when they were looking at 100 euros across the board for tickets to the new Lansdowne Road?

They are a commercial organisation and they treat fans as consumers. I mean, let's not get romantic here, we live in a capitalist system and we follow professional sport. Thats how it is. But one thing I've noticed in higher education as well is that if you treat people like consumers they will act like consumers. I.e. they will not tolerate being sold a defective product. And if the experience of watching the Irish side live in the flesh is a product that the IRFU deemed worth 100 euros per head as recently as a few years ago, then people are going to demand the equivalent level of excellence. Indeed as the Kidney era trundles on prices have gone down since their peak for those two test matches because the quality of the product isn't there.

So complain about the fans if you wish; I agree, and it makes me sad. But the IRFU contributed towards this change of attitudes when they embraced the most aggressive form of commercialism.

[asoreleftshoulder]

Madigan did play in the HC final,started the move for the fourth try with a beautiful pass if my memory serves me.

[pete (buachaill on eirne)]

I honestly believe if we get quicker service to Sexton we could trouble them a fair bit, well i did with earls in there not sure anymore now.

Zebo did somethings well and some things not so well, that's just how his game went, Fitzpatrick had his first cap too and no one has anything but praise for the guy.

Yeah Madigan did play the HCup final he got about 15minutes and he got about 10minutes the year before. I think he also put in the pass for VDM's try too.

[rodders]

You know what we have the worst fans in the whole bloody world at international level.

I disagree stag...that sin e bloke is ok......

[Sin é]

Sin-

Just on the scrum issue. Heaslip obviously has to push in a scrum, that much is obvious. That means he can't see. I would have thought it the entire fault of Murray and POM for not calling Heaslip out. Murray didn't defend that scrum very well, where as Reddan seemed to do ok.

Most 8s are able to lift their heads and see what is going on. Its not as if the Ireland scrum was in serious trouble or anything! I've seen lots of 8 getting pinged for losing the binding too quick, but I've never seen the opposite No. 8 tearing down the wing with the other 8 still pushing in the scrum before Saturday.

We also don't need centre cover we have ample centre cover we did need 15 cover. In a straight shoot out I'd choose Kearney Jr.

We don't have ample cover. The bench option needs to be able to cover centre and fullback.

Point me to a better 15 in the NH than Kearney, the guys is pretty damn good, didn't have a great day but lay off him and what evidence do you have of Kearney Jr defending badly?

Kearney maybe the best fullback in the world, but his defence (and the orgainsation of it) is still suspect. I'm not criticising Kearney Jr - he just hasn't got the experience to organise a fairly inexperienced back 3.

Sideline view for Sexton? He's going to be watching the video all week FFS. Idiotic point.

Trappatoni is slated for not attending premiership matches - he watches a lot of videos.

Do you really want Gavin Duffy coming on rather than Dave Kearney in a test match we don't look like winning anyways?

There was some good play from Ireland on Saturday, not all good by any stretch of the immagination but Earls' line off BOD was pretty tasty. Sexton put in some great linekicks. SOB had a whopper of a game. Fitzpatrick scrummaged really well on his first cap. Our lineout stood up really well with 3 jumpers who aren't very experienced. Kidney went experimental, not exactly what all of us wanted but he tried something.

It's not all doom and gloom. It's not positive and Kidney needs to really revamp our attack as we have to move faster or put on a stone of muscle in each backline position!

Gavin Duffy might be the only one available for all you know. I think there is no harm having a bit of experience in the backs either, bearing in mind that Earls is one of our more experienced internationals out there.

[rodders]

Lads have on me this one could get messy.....laters....

[Sin é]

Madigan did play in the HC final,started the move for the fourth try with a beautiful pass if my memory serves me.

He got 6 minutes (when Ulster were well beaten).

He got no time against the Ospreys (a tight game).

[Notch]

I'm so fatigued from the discussion of the Duffy call on the previous thread I can't even comment. Jaded after a long season!

[asoreleftshoulder]

We don't have ample cover. The bench option needs to be able to cover centre and fullback.

That totally depends on the team that is picked,the bench option last week could only cover 13 but Earls covered wing and FB.If Duffy is on the bench then McFadden has to start or we have no cover for the wing and we're twice as likely to get an injury at wing as full back.

[Sin é]

We don't have ample cover. The bench option needs to be able to cover centre and fullback.

That totally depends on the team that is picked,the bench option last week could only cover 13 but Earls covered wing and FB.If Duffy is on the bench then McFadden has to start or we have no cover for the wing and we're twice as likely to get an injury at wing as full back.

Gavin Duffy Caps are:
Starting: FB x 3; Centre x 4.
Benching: FB x 1; Wing x 2.

The fullback needs to be on top of their game.

[asoreleftshoulder]

We don't have ample cover. The bench option needs to be able to cover centre and fullback.

That totally depends on the team that is picked,the bench option last week could only cover 13 but Earls covered wing and FB.If Duffy is on the bench then McFadden has to start or we have no cover for the wing and we're twice as likely to get an injury at wing as full back.

Gavin Duffy Caps are:
Starting: FB x 3; Centre x 4.
Benching: FB x 1; Wing x 2.

The fullback needs to be on top of their game.

What's your point?

[Sin é]

Boyne wanted to know how many starts Duffy had as a centre.

I'm also including the information that he has benched as a wing (twice) before.

Much easier for a fullback to cover for an inexperienced wing than an inexperienced fullback cover for an inexperienced wing.

[Biltong]

Boyne perhaps a chill pill would be in order mate.

[asoreleftshoulder]

Ah right you quoted me when you were replying to Boyne,that's why I was confused.

[GunsGerms]

Why was Gavin Duffy called up?

Why wasn't Dave Kearney given a go?

Why does Kidney always pick the wrong scrum half?

Why did O Gara get on? I am convinced Kidney has a bet going in relation to the amount of CHEAP CAPS O Gara gets....

Here's a thought... why not play centers in the center and wingers on the wing?

Kidney, get your coat.

100% agree with all that.

[asoreleftshoulder]

Madigan did play in the HC final,started the move for the fourth try with a beautiful pass if my memory serves me.

He got 6 minutes (when Ulster were well beaten).

He got no time against the Ospreys (a tight game).

Only just saw this post,yeah he got 6 minutes and played some lovely stuff,he didn't go into his shell and just close the game down he helped the team really hammer the nails in.You said he got no game time.Were you making the game time argument against Conor Murray starting the WC quarter final?If not then how can you justify it as an argument against Madigan going on the tour to sit on the bench?

You've also said he can't kick at club level which is clearly wrong as he has done it and done it well a few times now.Just because there are other top class kickers ahead of him in the pecking order does not mean he isn't able to kick.

[Rory_Gallagher]

Usual irish topic - Sin defends Kidney/Munster players with the worst excuses, blaming all other provinces. The cycle continues.

[Rory_Gallagher]

You know what we have the worst fans in the whole bloody world at international level.

Yes we do, we're so pessimistic and critical, at times it's warrented but I don't think I have ever seen anyone say good things about the team!

Would you not say this is one of those times? If not one of the worst..

[Sin é]

Madigan did play in the HC final,started the move for the fourth try with a beautiful pass if my memory serves me.

He got 6 minutes (when Ulster were well beaten).

He got no time against the Ospreys (a tight game).

Only just saw this post,yeah he got 6 minutes and played some lovely stuff,he didn't go into his shell and just close the game down he helped the team really hammer the nails in.You said he got no game time.Were you making the game time argument against Conor Murray starting the WC quarter final?If not then how can you justify it as an argument against Madigan going on the tour to sit on the bench?

You've also said he can't kick at club level which is clearly wrong as he has done it and done it well a few times now.Just because there are other top class kickers ahead of him in the pecking order does not mean he isn't able to kick.

The only time we see Madigan play is when the game is over as a contest. No need to go into your shell in the last 6 minutes when your team are 30+ points ahead. A different matter entirely if you are on the back foot.

I do think Madigan is a class act, but I can't understand why he isn't taking the kicks if he has the ability to. He is never going to be good at it (which he will have to be if playing for Ireland) if he doesn't take them in the less pressurised games. And I don't see the benefit of McFadden taking a conversion at the end of a match that is well and truly won by Leinster. It wouldn't have mattered if he missed it.

As for Conor Murray - he had been starting SH for Munster since Jan/Feb. He at least started the Magners Final against Leinster, so I don't know why you bring that situation up as he had also benched for Ireland a few times as well.

[Rory_Gallagher]

What about all the games Madigan has actually started in, Sin?

[Rory_Gallagher]

Sin, speaking of Murray, how can you defend him after that performance at the weekend? He couldn't have asked for a better platform to play from, and he STILL took ages getting the ball out. What is the excuse for that? It was woeful, he needs to speed up.

[LeinsterFan4life]

Sin do you watch rugby? Madigan has played 21 games for leinster this season and started 15 of them scoring 86 points including 7 tries...How does he only come on when the game is over?

[asoreleftshoulder]

Madigan did play in the HC final,started the move for the fourth try with a beautiful pass if my memory serves me.

He got 6 minutes (when Ulster were well beaten).

He got no time against the Ospreys (a tight game).

Only just saw this post,yeah he got 6 minutes and played some lovely stuff,he didn't go into his shell and just close the game down he helped the team really hammer the nails in.You said he got no game time.Were you making the game time argument against Conor Murray starting the WC quarter final?If not then how can you justify it as an argument against Madigan going on the tour to sit on the bench?

You've also said he can't kick at club level which is clearly wrong as he has done it and done it well a few times now.Just because there are other top class kickers ahead of him in the pecking order does not mean he isn't able to kick.

The only time we see Madigan play is when the game is over as a contest. No need to go into your shell in the last 6 minutes when your team are 30+ points ahead. A different matter entirely if you are on the back foot.

I do think Madigan is a class act, but I can't understand why he isn't taking the kicks if he has the ability to. He is never going to be good at it (which he will have to be if playing for Ireland) if he doesn't take them in the less pressurised games. And I don't see the benefit of McFadden taking a conversion at the end of a match that is well and truly won by Leinster. It wouldn't have mattered if he missed it.

As for Conor Murray - he had been starting SH for Munster since Jan/Feb. He at least started the Magners Final against Leinster, so I don't know why you bring that situation up as he had also benched for Ireland a few times as well.

Leinster were 30 + points ahead I think you must have been watching a different game.

I don't know exactly why he isn't taking the kicks either but when called on he has done and done it well,I suppose Leinster have a pecking order and being the youngest player he's at the bottom of it,I fully expect that to change but as I said before just because he isn't taking the kicks that doesn't mean he can't.

Had Murray even played HC rugby when he was called on to start the biggest game in Ireland rugby history?You don't see why I bring that situation up when you object to Madigan sitting on the bench for an end of year tour because of lack of gametime,yet he has played a decent amount of HC rugby this year.

[asoreleftshoulder]

Had Murray even played HC rugby when he was called on to start the biggest game in Ireland rugby history?You don't see why I bring that situation up when you object to Madigan sitting on the bench for an end of year tour because of lack of gametime,yet he has played a decent amount of HC rugby this year.

Just looked it up and Murray started the WC quarter final with a grand total of 8 starts and 6 sub appearances for Munster none of which were in the HC.Madigan has 24 starts and 25 sub appearances 1 + 6 in the HC and Sin thinks that's an argument against him being on the bench for an end of year tour.

[Notch]

Usual irish topic - Sin defends Kidney/Munster players with the worst excuses, blaming all other provinces. The cycle continues.

Just like The Matrix really. I wish we could have slow motion kung-fu sometimes to liven things up

[Rory_Gallagher]

Just watch Murray playing at scrum half. I often think he is playing in slow motion.

[rodders]

Anyone else like to see Paul Marshall start the next test?

[LeinsterFan4life]

Anyone else like to see Paul Marshall start the next test?

God no

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