Your Ireland team to play the All Blacks in the 1st test

There is always a lot of discussion from Irish posters, which is good, but sometimes things tend to go off in a tangent so, tout simplement, I wanted to ask you your opinion of who should start the first test v New Zealand. Note, this is YOUR team and not what you think Kidney will pick.

Full squad:
Ireland Squad (New Zealand tour 2012 with Test matches on 9, 16 and 23 June)

Forwards (17):
Rory Best (Banbridge/Ulster)
Sean Cronin (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
Declan Fitzpatrick (Dungannon /Ulster)*
Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster)
Jamie Heaslip (Naas/Leinster)
Chris Henry (Ballymena/Ulster)
Ronan Loughney (Galwegians/Connacht)*
Kevin McLaughlin (St.Mary's College/Leinster)
Mike McCarthy (Buccaneers/Connacht)
Sean O'Brien (Clontarf/Leinster)
Donncha O'Callaghan (Cork Constitution/Munster)
Peter O’Mahony (Cork Constitution/Munster)
Mike Ross (Clontarf/Leinster)
Donnacha Ryan (Shannon/Munster)
Mike Sherry (Garryowen/Munster)*
Dan Tuohy (Ballymena /Ulster)
Brett Wilkinson (Galwegians/Connacht)*

Backs (13):
Darren Cave (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster)
Gordon D'Arcy (Lansdowne/Leinster)
Keith Earls (Young Munster/Munster)
Rob Kearney (UCD/Leinster)
Paul Marshall (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster)*
Fergus McFadden (Old Belvedere/Leinster)
Conor Murray (Garryowen/Munster)
Brian O’Driscoll (UCD/Leinster)
Ronan O'Gara (Cork Constitution/Munster)
Eoin Reddan (Lansdowne/Leinster)
Jonathan Sexton (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
Andrew Trimble (Ballymena/Ulster)
Simon Zebo (Cork Constitution/Munster)*
*Denotes Uncapped Player

NB Paul O'Connell is not included in the listed squad until a decision is made regarding his fitness on Friday.

My pick:

1. Healy
2. Best.
3. Ross.
4. POC
5. Ryan
6. O'Brien
7. O’Mahony
8. Heaslip
9. Reddan
10. Sexton
11. Earls
12. D'Arcy
13. O’Driscoll
14. Trimble
15. Kearney

16. Cronin
17. Fitzpatrick
18. Tuohy
19. McLaughlin
20. Murray
21 AN Other
21. Zebo

If all those are fit then no complaints. Do you hit ROG that much that you wouldn't even put him on the bench?

I don't think my team would be any different than yours to be honest.

1. Healy
2. Best.
3. Ross.
4. POC
5. Ryan
6. McLaughlin
7. O'Brien
8. Heaslip
9. Reddan
10. Sexton
11. Zebo
12. Cave
13. O’Driscoll
14. Earls
15. Kearney

16. Cronin
17. Fitzpatrick
18. Tuohy
19. O'Mahoney
20. Murray
21. ROG
22. McFadden

Piclk it without Ross and POC who are both unlikely to be fit

01 Cian Healy
02 Rory Best
03 Declan Fitzpatrick
04 Donnacha Ryan
05 Paul O'Connell
06 Kevin McLaughlin
07 Sean O'Brien
08 Jamie Heaslip
09 Eoin Reddan
10 Jonathan Sexton
11 Simon Zebo
12 Brian O'Driscoll (c)
13 Darren Cave
14 Keith Earls
15 Rob Kearney

16 Sean Cronin
17 Mike Ross
18 Dan Tuohy
19 Peter O'Mahony
20 Conor Murray
21 Ronan O'Gara
22 Fergus McFadden

If Ross isn't fit then Loughney on the bench instead.

If O'Connell isn't fit, Tuohy replaces him in starting team with O'Callaghan on the bench.

Fitzpatrick to start and Tuohy in for POC with DOC on the bench then Geoff.

Stag you stole my team and switched the centres round .... but I like it!

Rodders - I think whether Ross is fit or not we start Deccie Fitz.

rodders wrote:Stag you stole my team and switched the centres round .... but I like it!

No you started Mike Ross. I started Fitzpatrick.

Stag you maverick sir!

Thomond wrote:If all those are fit then no complaints. Do you hit ROG that much that you wouldn't even put him on the bench?

I don't think my team would be any different than yours to be honest.

Fixed that. Sorry.

Boyne you WUM!

Outside of the scrum I don't especially rate Ross.
Outside of the scrum I don't especially rate Fitzpatrick.

I genuinely don't think that Ross is all that much better. However I think that Fitzpatrick has the potential to emerge as a viable player for Ireland who can plug a gap until something better comes along.

I think that he should be looking to model himself on Adam Jones. However the Irish management need to be saying to him "Declan, if you shed weight and up your work load there are Irish caps available to you and possibly a place in the 2015 RWC. It is upto you".

Healy, Best, Fitz, Touhy, Ryan, SOB, Henry, Heaslip, Reddan, Sexton, Earls, BOD, Cave, Trimble, Kearney

Cronin, Loughney, McCarthy, POM, Murray, ROG, McFadden

I struggle to pick a backrow. I would have POM in there at 6 or 8 but not 7 (he wont be playing there for Munster i believe). Any of the following permutations would be fine

SOB,Henry, Heaslip
POM, SOB, Heaslip
Mclaughlin, SOB, Heaslip

POM definitely in the squad though

Fair points Stag, I have concerns about Ross, he's not a great athlete and think he might be starting the downward spiral.

I have bigger concerns about Fitzpatrick, he seems to be constantly injured and/or out of shape. What he has on his side is his age but the root cause of his injuries and lack of fitness needs to be identified and addressed asap.

I don't think either are fit enough but Ross is closer to the level needed but some strategic rotation may get the best out of both.

Regarding the backrow, with Ferris out I like the look of the Leinster backrow. McLaughlin has really impressed me this year and either O'Mahoney or Henry can cover all the backrow positions from the bench or allow SOB to switch flanks.

Unfortunately Deccie and the team don't do rotation well.......

We will not have a 100% Leinster back row because the coach will not allow it.

Probably why we never see Sexton and Reddan (one of Kidneys great mysteries) play together much.

I also like the Leinster backrow. I think its a unit that will work well.

Rodders I think fitness can be worked upon. Give the man a personal traning regime. Invest time in him. He may flop but he may not.

I agree rotation is the best way to go. I think initially Kidney did an excellent job rotating Sexton and O'Gara. The only issue was he kept on rotating for far too long.

Boyne, afraid without Wallace, Madigan or anyone else ROG has to go!

For me; I have to assume that O'Connell and Ross are doubts. That's why I'm putting Ross/Fitzpatrick and O'Connell/Tuohy

1. Cian Healy
2. Rory Best
3. Mike Ross/Declan Fitzpatrick
4. Donnacha Ryan
5. Paul O'Connell/Dan Tuohy
6. Sean O'Brien
7. Peter O'Mahony
8. Jamie Heaslip
9. Eoin Reddan
10. Jonathon Sexton
11. Keith Earls
12. Brian O'Driscoll (c)
13. Darren Cave
14. Andrew Trimble
15. Rob Kearney

16. Sean Cronin 17. Declan Fitzpatrick/Ronan Loughney 18. Dan Tuohy/Donncha O'Callaghan 19. Chris Hnery 20. Conor Murray 21. Ronan O'Gara 22. Simon Zebo

BoyneRFC wrote:We will not have a 100% Leinster back row because the coach will not allow it.

Kidney does enough wrong without people having to make up stuff about him.

Notch - Trimble really? Will be a backup player for Ulster next season. Should be nowhere near this squad.

I am not making up anything. I genuinely believe that mixing up the combos is a strategy of him and he will not play an all Leinster back row.

How do you explain his not wanting to ever play Irelands best OH and SH together??

If Strauss gets a look in in October, he will not be picked if Ross is in there.

ROG has to be on the bench, we didn't pick Madigan (should be going without a doubt) and I do nnot want Wallace as our OH cover.

Bottom line for me is; linebreak conceded, kick over the top, high ball- who do I trust more to make the right decision or do the right thing under pressure? Zebo or Trimble? Zebo has looked good in attack but not convinced he's ready to start on this tour in the first test. Could come in in later tests.

I also doubt Trimble will be a back-up player, he's on a central contract and on the plane ahead of Gilroy. I rate Gilroy higher right now and if he was on the plane he'd be in my team but Kidney can get on the phone and make sure Trimble gets picked ahead of him for Ulster quite easily

Evcen if that doesn't happen, in all honesty, Bowe and Trimble will both be rotated next season due to the IRFU player management programme and Gilroy will be partnering them on alternate weeks. And Trimble was the form Irish winger in the first half of the season. Seems foolish to dismiss him out of hand, though I wouldn't have him near this 22 if not for injuries.

01 Cian Healy
02 Sean Cronin
03 Declan Fitzpatrick
04 Donnacha Ryan
05 Dan Tuohy
06 Kevin McLaughlin
07 Sean O'Brien
08 Jamie Heaslip
09 Eoin Reddan
10 Jonathan Sexton
11 Andrew Trimble
12 Brian O'Driscoll (c)
13 Darren Cave
14 Keith Earls
15 Rob Kearney

16 Rory Best
17 Mike Ross
18 Mike McCarthy
19 Chris Henry
20 Conor Murray
21 Ronan O'Gara
22 Fergus McFadden

I think we need to have a look properly at the front row. Fitzpatrick should get a run out for maybe 50 minutes and see how he goes. We all know what Rory Best brings and if this was a competitive match then I would start him, but in a 'friendly' I would like to see Cronin get a real runout. Trimble may not be at his best at the moment, but he is not being used effectively by Ulster which is half the problem- I am certainly not as certain as some others who claim Trimble will be a backup player next season. Gilroy has a long way to go in my eyes. Zebo's defence fills me with absolutely zero confidence. I really hope to see BOD at 12 but I honestly see Kidney going with the usual Leinster pairing here but I can dream.

BoyneRFC wrote:I am not making up anything. I genuinely believe that mixing up the combos is a strategy of him and he will not play an all Leinster back row.

How do you explain his not wanting to ever play Irelands best OH and SH together??

If Strauss gets a look in in October, he will not be picked if Ross is in there.

He picks an all Leinster centre and an all Munster second row despite calls for him not to do so.

He seems to consider Murray and Sexton the best halfbacks and Reddan and O'Gara the backups. I really don't think there is any further than that really. Plus he did start Reddan-Sexton together against Scotland (I remember as I won big money betting in that match )

We will not have an all leinster backrow because two of the three travelling got bossed by the Ospreys last weekend or did anyone notice. Mclaughlin had a poor game and in fact Jennings was the best of the three.

POM, SOB, Heaslip to start with Henry on the bench as he covers a number of options.

People look for new talent and yet from the comments we have POM (and Henry) being looked over. In fact I would be happier with SOB, HENRY, POM as Heaslip is still a lard at the moment.

Redden and Sexton...heres a good one. Against certain teams (usually non-Irish) they are easily managed as the O's showed agains last weekend. Sexton can be read like a ladybird book for 4 year olds and clearly the Welsh have him sussed. Redden doesnt offer enough inside and with the same old boys outside Sexton there wont be much in the line of creativity going on against the better teams (that would be New Zealand or Wales for example).

What I would like to see.
Healy
Cronin
Ross
POC
Ryan
SOB
Henry
POM

9Murray
10Madigan (I know)
11 Gilroy (I know #2)
12 BOD
13 Earls
14 Zebo
15 Kearney

What it will be.
Healy
Best
Ross
POC
Ryan
POM
SOB
Heaslip

Murray
Sexton
Earls
Darcy
BOD
Trimble
Kearney

Cronin is a VERY interesting call DOD. I was considering him myself. I think he has had a very good season.

The other thing with Kidney is with Earls for example.

Earls states he wants to play OC. Munster have played him there all season and he played well in the 6ns when deputising for BOD.

What does Kidney do...clearly picks him as a wing..................

Or a fullback! I would bet Earls plays three positions on this tour. Already been played at fullback...

With Trimble coming on in the forwards last night...maybe he will try him at hooker or something

DOD wrote:The other thing with Kidney is with Earls for example.

Earls states he wants to play OC. Munster have played him there all season and he played well in the 6ns when deputising for BOD.

What does Kidney do...clearly picks him as a wing..................

I dont see him playing much at 13 next season. I think that we will see him at fullback for the Heino matches. I would be surprised if we deviated from:

09 Murray
10 O'Gara
11 Zebo
12 Downey
13 Laulala
14 Howlett
15 Earls

from our starting Euro team.

red_stag wrote:

DOD wrote:The other thing with Kidney is with Earls for example.

Earls states he wants to play OC. Munster have played him there all season and he played well in the 6ns when deputising for BOD.

What does Kidney do...clearly picks him as a wing..................

I dont see him playing much at 13 next season. I think that we will see him at fullback for the Heino matches. I would be surprised if we deviated from:

09 Murray
10 O'Gara
11 Zebo
12 Downey
13 Laulala
14 Howlett
15 Earls

from our starting Euro team.

Makes complete sense...just when he is beginning to get a run of form as OC....

DOD wrote:With Trimble coming on in the forwards last night...maybe he will try him at hooker or something

Don't be silly. He's our long-term replacement for Ferris

Trimble could have been a pretty good 7 in another life, bit late to start now though I would think

Earls will end up like Luke Fitzgerald and be a jack of all trades and a master of none. In regards that Munster back line Stag, I wouldn't be so sure of Earls at 15. If Felix Jones can stay fit (which seems to be a huge 'if') then Earls may end up playing elsewhere. I just don't think he has the brain and distribution to be a 13. He is extremely fast, strong and a great finisher. I still think his best position is as wing.

DOD, I don't think Munster will be spending a decent amount of cash on Laulala to sit on the bench for HCs. Can he play inside? Might be a better option than Downey, Jones has not been great since he has com back but he will get chances come September anyway.

DOD wrote:

red_stag wrote:

DOD wrote:The other thing with Kidney is with Earls for example.

Earls states he wants to play OC. Munster have played him there all season and he played well in the 6ns when deputising for BOD.

What does Kidney do...clearly picks him as a wing..................

I dont see him playing much at 13 next season. I think that we will see him at fullback for the Heino matches. I would be surprised if we deviated from:

09 Murray
10 O'Gara
11 Zebo
12 Downey
13 Laulala
14 Howlett
15 Earls

from our starting Euro team.

Makes complete sense...just when he is beginning to get a run of form as OC....

I know its bizarre isn't it. However we could and should keep him at 15 now that we have started going down this road.

1 - We have better first team options at centre and wing than at fullback.

2 - Kearney is the only other option internationally.

3 - I don't have much hope for Felix Jones in the long run.

4 - Earls has rarely ever played badly at 15.

oh jebus the distribution arguement????

its been fine this season and he has created well ...apparently he created a try for Gilroy with some fine DISTRIBUTION (a pass) last night

Earls needs to do what Ruan Pienaar did; identify a club that will allow him to play in his favoured position and move there. He may lose out on international honours but he'll enjoy his rugby more in the long run.

I have no concerns regarding Earls distribution. It amazes me that this is such a concern for some people.

I think he has proven his ability with regards distribution this season and I suggest that those who think otherwise aren't watching enough rugby.

You're right stag he does play well at FB...in fact he plays "well" in any position he is asked to play.

Notch - you are completely correct...he should feck off and make a ton in France. they would love him

Earls has the distribution, he is developing the brain. I really don't know where he will end up but he rarely disappoints for Munster.

Yes, one decent pass DOD and it renders 3 or 4 seasons of poor to average distribution down the drain. His distribution is better than it was, but it is no better than average at provincial level and not good enough at international level. I truly believe Earls could be a world class winger. He has all the attributes to do it. Players aren't always the best judges of what their best positions is, just witness Luke Fitzgerlad at 15 for Ireland which was an utter fiasco on the pitch.

DOD wrote:You're right stag he does play well at FB...in fact he plays "well" in any position he is asked to play.

Notch - you are completely correct...he should feck off and make a ton in France. they would love him

He is a great rugby player just needs to make a position his own but needs help from coaches to do that.

Regarding France - I know that he was looking at it but he is married now with a child and once you leave the safety net of the IRFU it can be tough to get back in. The last thing he wants now is to move to France for 2 years and having to end up playing for a micky mouse team like Grenoble or La Rochelle down the line.

He is basically secure once he stays in Munster which can't help when it comes to motivation.

BoyneRFC wrote:I am not making up anything. I genuinely believe that mixing up the combos is a strategy of him and he will not play an all Leinster back row.

How do you explain his not wanting to ever play Irelands best OH and SH together??

If Strauss gets a look in in October, he will not be picked if Ross is in there.

I totally agree boyne, 100%. You're not paranoid buddy, I can see it too!

Hookisms and Hyperbole wrote:Yes, one decent pass DOD and it renders 3 or 4 seasons of poor to average distribution down the drain. His distribution is better than it was, but it is no better than average at provincial level and not good enough at international level. I truly believe Earls could be a world class winger. He has all the attributes to do it. Players aren't always the best judges of what their best positions is, just witness Luke Fitzgerlad at 15 for Ireland which was an utter fiasco on the pitch.

I refer you to stags post regarding people who havent watched him a lot this season...

At least he's better than Tindall. It was painful watching him try to play 'BaaBaas' rugby at 12 against England. So, so limited

I remember a few good assists from Earls this year from the centre. He's put guys away for a few tries, seems to be improving there.

Hooks - I get what your saying but your basing your info on old news. I have been extremely impressed with him on several occasions and I think had Cave or O'Driscoll done the exact same things people would have been very satisfied.

Do you really know what is annoying me a lot these days, not just with Kidney and the Irish set up its also the same with the provinces.....

This awful way of trying to create these hybrid players.......D Ryan is one Earls is another, Luke Fitz, McFadden, SOB, POM etc....

FFS get them to play in one position and thats it....we seem to be the only nation who does this regularly...the French used to do it but it backfired on them in the past.

DOD wrote:

Hookisms and Hyperbole wrote:Yes, one decent pass DOD and it renders 3 or 4 seasons of poor to average distribution down the drain. His distribution is better than it was, but it is no better than average at provincial level and not good enough at international level. I truly believe Earls could be a world class winger. He has all the attributes to do it. Players aren't always the best judges of what their best positions is, just witness Luke Fitzgerlad at 15 for Ireland which was an utter fiasco on the pitch.

I refer you to stags post regarding people who havent watched him a lot this season...

Thanks for that DOD. I've probably watched about two thirds of Munster matches this season. When we are giving advice to each other I'll just mention to you that taking off the Munster coloured glasses you are wearing, and putting down the official Munster knife you bought in the club gift shop that you plunge into your Leinster voodoo doll would be a super idea too.

Hookisms and Hyperbole wrote:

DOD wrote:

Hookisms and Hyperbole wrote:Yes, one decent pass DOD and it renders 3 or 4 seasons of poor to average distribution down the drain. His distribution is better than it was, but it is no better than average at provincial level and not good enough at international level. I truly believe Earls could be a world class winger. He has all the attributes to do it. Players aren't always the best judges of what their best positions is, just witness Luke Fitzgerlad at 15 for Ireland which was an utter fiasco on the pitch.

I refer you to stags post regarding people who havent watched him a lot this season...

Thanks for that DOD. I've probably watched about two thirds of Munster matches this season. When we are giving advice to each other I'll just mention to you that taking off the Munster coloured glasses you are wearing, and putting down the official Munster knife you bought in the club gift shop that you plunge into your Leinster voodoo doll would be a super idea too.

Get you!

Given you have seen two thirds of munsters games this season then its clear you havent a clue what you are talking about regarding Earls.