Your Ireland team to play the All Blacks in the 1st test

First topic message reminder :

There is always a lot of discussion from Irish posters, which is good, but sometimes things tend to go off in a tangent so, tout simplement, I wanted to ask you your opinion of who should start the first test v New Zealand. Note, this is YOUR team and not what you think Kidney will pick.

Full squad:
Ireland Squad (New Zealand tour 2012 with Test matches on 9, 16 and 23 June)

Forwards (17):
Rory Best (Banbridge/Ulster)
Sean Cronin (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
Declan Fitzpatrick (Dungannon /Ulster)*
Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster)
Jamie Heaslip (Naas/Leinster)
Chris Henry (Ballymena/Ulster)
Ronan Loughney (Galwegians/Connacht)*
Kevin McLaughlin (St.Mary's College/Leinster)
Mike McCarthy (Buccaneers/Connacht)
Sean O'Brien (Clontarf/Leinster)
Donncha O'Callaghan (Cork Constitution/Munster)
Peter O’Mahony (Cork Constitution/Munster)
Mike Ross (Clontarf/Leinster)
Donnacha Ryan (Shannon/Munster)
Mike Sherry (Garryowen/Munster)*
Dan Tuohy (Ballymena /Ulster)
Brett Wilkinson (Galwegians/Connacht)*

Backs (13):
Darren Cave (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster)
Gordon D'Arcy (Lansdowne/Leinster)
Keith Earls (Young Munster/Munster)
Rob Kearney (UCD/Leinster)
Paul Marshall (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster)*
Fergus McFadden (Old Belvedere/Leinster)
Conor Murray (Garryowen/Munster)
Brian O’Driscoll (UCD/Leinster)
Ronan O'Gara (Cork Constitution/Munster)
Eoin Reddan (Lansdowne/Leinster)
Jonathan Sexton (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
Andrew Trimble (Ballymena/Ulster)
Simon Zebo (Cork Constitution/Munster)*
*Denotes Uncapped Player

NB Paul O'Connell is not included in the listed squad until a decision is made regarding his fitness on Friday.

My pick:

1. Healy
2. Best.
3. Ross.
4. POC
5. Ryan
6. O'Brien
7. O’Mahony
8. Heaslip
9. Reddan
10. Sexton
11. Earls
12. D'Arcy
13. O’Driscoll
14. Trimble
15. Kearney

16. Cronin
17. Fitzpatrick
18. Tuohy
19. McLaughlin
20. Murray
21 AN Other
21. Zebo

What would be the general concensous if McFadden started at 14????

Pete don't think he's great there to be honest.... I mean he didn't do great for either of Shane Williams tries against the Ospreys.

I honestly think he has serious defensive frailties and the wider the channel he's defending in the more exposed he is.

Decent player, deserves to be in the squad but I don't thing he can play 13 and maybe not wing either at this level.

I know there's a thread elsewhere for it, but get well sound to EireBilly- a top bloke on here.

So just found out I'll be working when the 1st match is on.So what channels are showing it,I need to have a stream lined up.

That is a good point Rodders, didn't really think that one through fully!

Our right wing options aren't great are they? I'd be tempted with Gilroy...

It will be Trimble, I'm nearly certain. Zebo generally plays on the left doesn't he? So he or Earls will start over there.

So that leaves Trimble and McFadden. Trimble player is a good player who is in poor form. Wouldn't pick him if not for injuries and a guy who is in form being left out. But McFadden isn't really a winger.

Would Ireland have any better chance against the ABs without injuries? Ireland aren't playing good enough rugby to test NZ so the choice of team is almost irrelevant. Unless Kidney changes the game plan it won't matter who's in the backs.

The formation of the deck chairs on the Titanic is important to ensure our satisfaction right to the end...

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:What would be the general concensous if McFadden started at 14????

McFadden was touted as the next inside centre earlier in the season but he hasn't been able to shift D'Arcy from that position. He has a lot of experience but I don't think he is an International class winger.
Trimble has not had the greatest couple of months but just look back at his performances in the last three group matches in the HC when he was outstanding, particularly against Leicester. I think he is a better player in that position than McFadden so I would pick him ahead.

Notch wrote:The formation of the deck chairs on the Titanic is important to ensure our satisfaction right to the end...

'Knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit; wisdom is knowing not to put it in a fruit salad,'

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:What would be the general concensous if McFadden started at 14????

If McFadden starts at 14, a try will definitely be scored on his wing after he misses a tackle. Unfortunately Trimble hasn't
been playing great recently, Gilroy/Zebo aren't exactly solid in defence and Fitz/Bowe injured so our options are exactly
great.

On POM v McLaughlin in the lineout, they are both very good but I would say POM is better, he called the lineout when he
was captain of the u20s and they had a solid lineout despite having a desperate team. Rory I'm not sure what his ability in
the lineout has to do with which position he plays in the backrow? Pom will be ahead of McLaughlin and rightly so as although
they may be in similar enough form POM is the younger player and has much greater potential.

We all know what the team will be barring further injuries.

Healy Best Ross
Ryan Doc
Pom Sob Heaslip
Murray Sexton
Darcy Bod
Earls Kearney Trimble

Ideally you would hardly want your 7 to be a line-out specialist, as he isn't going to be able to get to the first breakdown obviously.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Ideally you would hardly want your 7 to be a line-out specialist, as he isn't going to be able to get to the first breakdown obviously.

Meh, wouldn't be the biggest consideration but a good point.

It wouldn't really matter if the back row shares the breakdown roles, but just as a generalisation, I wouldn't have the 7 as a line-out specialist.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:It wouldn't really matter if the back row shares the breakdown roles, but just as a generalisation, I wouldn't have the 7 as a line-out specialist.

Yeah I don't especially disagree with you. I think we've discussed the roles of backrows enough over the season. Personally I think POM is best at 8 but I think he could do a decent job at 6/7. I was talking to my friend who went to the Baa Baas game and he said that POM was very impressive at 8.

ASLS, no idea which one but it will be on Sky Sports. Sent you a PM, you will find it there.

valjester wrote:On POM v McLaughlin in the lineout, they are both very good but I would say POM is better, he called the lineout when he
was captain of the u20s and they had a solid lineout despite having a desperate team.

Considering who was available who's fault was it to make it a desperate team?

Paddy McAllister, Tom Sexton, Adam Macklin
Mark Flanagan, James Sandford
Rhys Ruddock, Dom Ryan, Peter O'Mahony
Conor Murray
Ian McKinley
Michael Keating, Noel Reid, Eamonn Sheridan, David Kearney
Ian Madigan
+ Jack McGrath, Jack O'Connell, Ciaran Ruddock, Andrew Burke, Shane Gahan, Ronan O'Mahony...

The Great Aukster wrote:

valjester wrote:On POM v McLaughlin in the lineout, they are both very good but I would say POM is better, he called the lineout when he
was captain of the u20s and they had a solid lineout despite having a desperate team.

Considering who was available who's fault was it to make it a desperate team?

Paddy McAllister, Tom Sexton, Adam Macklin
Mark Flanagan, James Sandford
Rhys Ruddock, Dom Ryan, Peter O'Mahony
Conor Murray
Ian McKinley
Michael Keating, Noel Reid, Eamonn Sheridan, David Kearney
Ian Madigan
+ Jack McGrath, Jack O'Connell, Ciaran Ruddock, Andrew Burke, Shane Gahan, Ronan O'Mahony...

Desperate is probably harsh, and I was more talking about how the pack was bullied around the place by most other teams.
Even though looking at the team there is is quite surprising how many off them have graduated to the pro game.

It's going to be very interesting seeing Fitzpatrick at tighthead.

He's a guy who I always have some concerns about when he plays for Ulster in the really big games, I never really rated him highly, but in the past he's pulled some big games out of seemingly nowhere. His scrummaging against Edinburgh was exemplary even if he clearly struggled to keep up with the pace of the game. The pace of this game will be even more brutal. He'll need to be twice the player he's ever been if we've to have a hope.

It's strange, because next season I'm hoping Adam Macklin can oust him as second choice tighthead at Ulster. I would see him as our (Ulsters) third choice tighthead a few months down the line, whilst the Irish media try to talk him up as Irelands scrum salvation

Yeah I am hoping for Macklin to overtake Fitzpatrick soon too.

Fitzpatrick is as good a scrummager as anyone eligable to play TH for Ireland.

He struggles with the physicality of the top level and is slow around the park.
When he gets to the breakdown he is actually capable of good work.
He is only 26 and if he can up his fitness he will be taking over from Ross who, for me, is on a downward spiral.

Ulster could very easily have Ireland's 1 and 2 at TH in a couple of years and that is why Afoa will not be replaced.

Fitzpatrick will remain in front of Macklin next year but you will see far more of Macklin this year than last.

With Afoa, Fitzpatrick and Macklin if Kidney insists on Tom Court playign a couple of games at TH I'll scream.

The sad thing is Geoff, if Court had been fit for the tour then Fitzpatrick might not have made it.

http://v2journal.com/irelands-summer-tour.html

My thoughts on the tour. It's not groin-grabbingly good but sure it's not awful

Thomond tell the truth now, if I read that will it make me smile or cry ?

Start BOD and Earls in the centre, sick of seeing D'arcy start every game despite doin nothing... give Zebo or Gilroy a go on the wing.

It actually is groin-grabbingly good Thomond. Nice job.

Unfortunately all the indicators are that we'll lose this tour 3-0. Just hope it's not too bad- groin-grabbingly bad.

Rodders, it will leave you somewhere in between. So maybe a frown?

One of the few things to give me hope about this tour is the prospect that we will play attacking rugby. We are unfortunately going to lose 3-0 but I honestly think we will attempt to have a cut off them and attempt to outscore them as opposed to our tactic in the Six Nations which appears to be to concede less points than the other team. Any time Kidney has come up against the All Blacks he has realised that we are going to concede scores and has attacked them. The problem is that our players are worse than their players and Kidney doesn't help him by not picking the strongest team possible. Injuries have already set us back a bit but playing Doc and Darcy or giving Rog any gametime will further handicap us.

Also this time we really need all our players to keep their heads. Last time although we gave a good account of ourselves the stupid mistakes really cost us dearly. Kearney not dealing with a simple ball and allowing a simple try, Heaslip being braindead and Rog screwing us over further left us in a position were we were playing to keep the score down. If we are even to nick one win, we will need every single one of our players to be at their best, a few All Blacks will have nightmares and to get a bit of luck.

Unfortunately the pictures emerging from the training seem to indicate that Doc will be starting and that Ross is out.

valjester wrote:One of the few things to give me hope about this tour is the prospect that we will play attacking rugby. We are unfortunately going to lose 3-0 but I honestly think we will attempt to have a cut off them and attempt to outscore them as opposed to our tactic in the Six Nations which appears to be to concede less points than the other team. Any time Kidney has come up against the All Blacks he has realised that we are going to concede scores and has attacked them. The problem is that our players are worse than their players and Kidney doesn't help him by not picking the strongest team possible. Injuries have already set us back a bit but playing Doc and Darcy or giving Rog any gametime will further handicap us.

Also this time we really need all our players to keep their heads. Last time although we gave a good account of ourselves the stupid mistakes really cost us dearly. Kearney not dealing with a simple ball and allowing a simple try, Heaslip being braindead and Rog screwing us over further left us in a position were we were playing to keep the score down. If we are even to nick one win, we will need every single one of our players to be at their best, a few All Blacks will have nightmares and to get a bit of luck.

Unfortunately the pictures emerging from the training seem to indicate that Doc will be starting and that Ross is out.

Now I am as pessimistic as it gets in terms of how this tour will go, but that is very defeatist.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

valjester wrote:One of the few things to give me hope about this tour is the prospect that we will play attacking rugby. We are unfortunately going to lose 3-0 but I honestly think we will attempt to have a cut off them and attempt to outscore them as opposed to our tactic in the Six Nations which appears to be to concede less points than the other team. Any time Kidney has come up against the All Blacks he has realised that we are going to concede scores and has attacked them. The problem is that our players are worse than their players and Kidney doesn't help him by not picking the strongest team possible. Injuries have already set us back a bit but playing Doc and Darcy or giving Rog any gametime will further handicap us.

Also this time we really need all our players to keep their heads. Last time although we gave a good account of ourselves the stupid mistakes really cost us dearly. Kearney not dealing with a simple ball and allowing a simple try, Heaslip being braindead and Rog screwing us over further left us in a position were we were playing to keep the score down. If we are even to nick one win, we will need every single one of our players to be at their best, a few All Blacks will have nightmares and to get a bit of luck.

Unfortunately the pictures emerging from the training seem to indicate that Doc will be starting and that Ross is out.

Now I am as pessimistic as it gets in terms of how this tour will go, but that is very defeatist.

We've never ever beaten them, and we are in poor form and missing some key players with some players who should be playing won't be picked.

Forget it lads we will win this series 2-1.

Believe

Sorry lads, but it's going to be a tour from hell for Ireland.

Mike Ross: Ireland are very reliant on the Cork native.

Thomond ya chancer!

rodders wrote:

Mike Ross: Ireland are very reliant on the Cork native.

Thomond ya chancer!

Why is he a chancer, Ross is from Cork,

valjester , what do you think the team should be...

DOD wrote:

rodders wrote:

Mike Ross: Ireland are very reliant on the Cork native.

Thomond ya chancer!

Why is he a chancer, Ross is from Cork,

valjester , what do you think the team should be...

Should be or would be?

Its limited by the squad that has been taken but I don't think Kidney is getting it too far wrong, its just he is making two huge mistakes at 4 and 12 with Doc and Darcy.


From the squad in New Zealand I would like;

Healy Best Ross
Ryan Tuohy
Pom Sob Heaslip
Murray Sexton
Bod Cave
Earls Kearney Trimble


If everyone was fully fit and available;

Healy Best Ross
Ryan Poc
Ferris Sob Heaslip
Murray Sexton
Bod Earls
Fitz Kearney Bowe.


The team isn't the problem, the tactics are.

Well, Thornley has spoken. We all know what his track record is like in the weeks leading up to matches when he names his 'possible' team.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2012/0606/1224317367150.html

IRELAND (possible): R Kearney; A Trimble, B O’Driscoll (capt), G D’Arcy, K Earls; J Sexton, C Murray; C Healy, R Best, M Ross or D Fitzpatrick, D O’Callaghan, D Ryan, S O’Brien, P O’Mahony, J Heaslip.

Replacements: S Cronin, D Fitzpatrick or R Loughney, D Tuohy, C Henry, E Reddan, R O’Gara, F McFadden

The only question is over the fitness of Mike Ross. If it is broken, why fix it?

There were some reports here in Auckland that Ross couldnt walk up some stairs in the hotel, I just presumed they were foxing.

aucklandlaurie wrote: There were some reports here in Auckland that Ross couldnt walk up some stairs in the hotel, I just presumed they were foxing.

Na I think he was just out late Laurie...

Just for the record. The long range forcast for Auckland is Thursday = rain, Friday = rain, Saturday should be clear. Obviously 3 days out the weather gods could change their mind.

Thanks for the updates Kiwi friends

Unfortunately I think Thornley won't be too far away with his predicted team.

Kidney has the imagination of a gnat.

I am sure Thornley is right.

I am close to giving up...

We will be slaughtered

aucklandlaurie wrote: There were some reports here in Auckland that Ross couldnt walk up some stairs in the hotel, I just presumed they were foxing.

That is shocking news laurie..... you mean there were no lifts in the team hotel? .... unbelievable .....

Notch wrote:Well, Thornley has spoken. We all know what his track record is like in the weeks leading up to matches when he names his 'possible' team.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2012/0606/1224317367150.html

IRELAND (possible): R Kearney; A Trimble, B O’Driscoll (capt), G D’Arcy, K Earls; J Sexton, C Murray; C Healy, R Best, M Ross or D Fitzpatrick, D O’Callaghan, D Ryan, S O’Brien, P O’Mahony, J Heaslip.

Replacements: S Cronin, D Fitzpatrick or R Loughney, D Tuohy, C Henry, E Reddan, R O’Gara, F McFadden

The only question is over the fitness of Mike Ross. If it is broken, why fix it?

I'm happy enough with that team, well from the point of view it was the team I expected. There's no reason why we can't win with that side.

The big achilles heel is Murray, if his service and combination with Sexton isn't markedly improved then we will be in big trouble. It suggests that we will be adopting a more conservative and defence orientated game plan.

Rodders if you think we can win with that side I think you need a lie down mate

rodders wrote:

Notch wrote:Well, Thornley has spoken. We all know what his track record is like in the weeks leading up to matches when he names his 'possible' team.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2012/0606/1224317367150.html

IRELAND (possible): R Kearney; A Trimble, B O’Driscoll (capt), G D’Arcy, K Earls; J Sexton, C Murray; C Healy, R Best, M Ross or D Fitzpatrick, D O’Callaghan, D Ryan, S O’Brien, P O’Mahony, J Heaslip.

Replacements: S Cronin, D Fitzpatrick or R Loughney, D Tuohy, C Henry, E Reddan, R O’Gara, F McFadden

The only question is over the fitness of Mike Ross. If it is broken, why fix it?

I'm happy enough with that team, well from the point of view it was the team I expected. There's no reason why we can't win with that side.

The big achilles heel is Murray, if his service and combination with Sexton isn't markedly improved then we will be in big trouble. It suggests that we will be adopting a more conservative and defence orientated game plan.

Darcy and Doc are far bigger problems than Murray. Doc had dropped to fourth choice for Munster and he is still starting for Ireland, that is just ridiculous.

No I don't think so Val, yes I agree the two boyo's are on the slide but provided they can do their bread and butter tasks then they shouldn't impact our ...cough, cough... gameplan too much....

I actually think D'arcy has been decent enough for Leinster and looks better alongside O'Driscoll...expect McFadden to come on to the wing and Earls to move to center at some point...

DOC will shore up the scrum and Tuohy can bring a bit more dynamism from the bench, and the option is there to move Ryan to 6 for an extra lineout option.

The big crux will be whether Fitzpatrick (or indeed Ross) can keep the scrum up and if Murray can give us decent service at 9.

I really think we will win here.......

BELIEVE

rodders wrote:No I don't think so Val, yes I agree the two boyo's are on the slide but provided they can do their bread and butter tasks then they shouldn't impact our ...cough, cough... gameplan too much....

I actually think D'arcy has been decent enough for Leinster and looks better alongside O'Driscoll...expect McFadden to come on to the wing and Earls to move to center at some point...

DOC will shore up the scrum and Tuohy can bring a bit more dynamism from the bench, and the option is there to move Ryan to 6 for an extra lineout option.

The big crux will be whether Fitzpatrick (or indeed Ross) can keep the scrum up and if Murray can give us decent service at 9.

I really think we will win here.......

BELIEVE

Leinster are so much better than everyone else that they can accommodate Darcy, we can't. The ball will just die with him every single time. His decision making has gone at this level and lack of a good 12 is one of the main reasons we've looked so devoid of ideas. Doc has fallen to fourth choice at Munster for a reason. He is no longer up to the demands of high intensity rugby, since the world cup his form has jumped off a cliff. The difference between Tuohy and Doc in the scrum is minimal, the difference elsewhere is already quite large and it is growing.

I will cry if Ryan is moved to 6 during the match. He is barely capable of playing there at Hec level. He is an extremely good lock and should be left there.

I hate criticising coaches, especially Irish ones, as they are doing what they honestly think is the best thing to win the game but Kidney's refusal to accept that the time has come for change is really beginning to annoy me. I won't be calling for his head as I think once they are representing Ireland they should have our full support but I sure as hell won't be calling for his continued employment next year.

valjester wrote: I sure as hell won't be calling for his continued employment next year.

Me neither and I hope he goes regardless of what happens over the next three weeks.....

I just happen to fundimentally believe that we can win this game, and subsequently the series, in spite of Kidney and smal.

Maybe I'm being delusional but we shall see.....

rodders wrote:

valjester wrote: I sure as hell won't be calling for his continued employment next year.

Me neither and I hope he goes regardless of what happens over the next three weeks.....

I just happen to fundimentally believe that we can win this game, and subsequently the series, in spite of Kidney and smal.

Maybe I'm being delusional but we shall see.....

If he wins a game, it is possible that the confidence gained could see us actually playing well next year and him keeping his job.

I think he has actually achieved all the targets set out for him when he was appointed but god the last year has been terrible.