Wales v England : game debate

First topic message reminder :

Both teams have announced their squads.

Let the game debate begin:

The side that we select to play against Argentina will be in my opinion something resembling our first XV.
I tend to think that Wales play better under a bit of pressure and when we get too confident we tend to take the foot off the pedal.

Apparently foden mite b injurd

All I can say say for Wales if the lose tomorrow, then to quote Elton John 'It's a sad. sad situation'.

Somehow, from somewhere Wales have got to produce a performance.

Unfortunately WG showed his best hand last week at HQ in order to avoid a trouncing and he has left himself exposed at home for a stuffing.

Wales really ought to learn from the Irish model (if they are committed Celtic League).

Portnoy
It's just a warm up game so are you telling me if England lose tomorrow it's the end of the world?

True. I remember being absolutley cyber castrated for creating a post on 606 being critical of the form of Deniol Jones, Dan Biggar and asking why they were picked.

*Reply to manofgwent.

Cymroglan wrote:Portnoy
It's just a warm up game so are you telling me if England lose tomorrow it's the end of the world?

Nope. That's da Dubs game.

But it would be a disaster for Wales if they lose with only Argentina to play.

Why would it be a disaster ? Please don't tell me that you were happy with England's performance last week ? Neither England or Wales would have come within twenty points to any of the big three if they played like they did last week.
If you are happy with last weeks performance so be it the only bit I was happy with was our fitness level and the fact we scored three tries away from home.

And Ashton i's facing a fitness test in the morning.

Nope I was very disappointed with England's performance.

I don't believe in that fitness nonsense.

If you hit your straps a month out then that's wrong.

Can you see a Welsh win tomorrow?

Are we starting to get WUMs on here now.Shame.It was going so well.

Nottins.
You too could see what was to happen. Deiniol and gough in the 2nd row. I nearly crashed the van when I heard the team announcement.
Good to see gatland learns his lessons though. Hook at 15!!!!

manofgwent wrote:And Ashton i's facing a fitness test in the morning.

As I said. It's the Dublin game that's important.

Ashton probably hurt his head diving into the mosh pit.

I can see it being anybodies game tomorrow that what happens during warm up matches due to substitutions being made and players being told to switch positions there will be experiments going on tomorrow that you and I will not be aware of.
I was at the game last weekend sat on the top tier and it was noticeable that Wales did appear to be the fitter side in the last quarter of the match but that debate has been done to death.
The score tomorrow may be important to most but to me it's the performance thats the most important thing and if Wales win by four points tomorrow great but it has to go hand in hand with a very good performance.

Cymroglan wrote:Why would it be a disaster ? Please don't tell me that you were happy with England's performance last week ? Neither England or Wales would have come within twenty points to any of the big three if they played like they did last week.
If you are happy with last weeks performance so be it the only bit I was happy with was our fitness level and the fact we scored three tries away from home.

I think both teams want/need to come out and play crisp, high pace rugby. Simply put, well played rugby, regardless of who is playing which position. Unless the match is an unmitigated loss for one team or the other, neither should be making too much out of it. It is a pre RWC warm-up.

Agreed.This is all about putting hands up for selection.If everyone plays at their tops we stand a good chance of winning.Really this game is about the individuals/units.The result is secondary-though a W would be nice.Let us just hope that no player from either side gets crocked.

It is about individual performances, but we so desperately need a win.

MOG

Bit hash there on Bishop and Biggar

Last season Bishop was the Os best centre by a country mile, and Biggar had MOM performances in a few games and was up to the last two months by far the best 10 option down at the Liberty

Gatlands issue is his unhealthy fascination with making sure Hook was in the team somewhere................ and it is still continuing, you could have had

FB - Barry Davies, Prydie, Dan Evans, Tovey, Priestland, even Stoddart,

Centre - Jon Davies, Scott Williams, Ashley Smith

Flyhalf - Tovey, Priestland, Biggar

All could have been blooded much earlier, and used more

Then of course you have the loosehead prop issue

No real cover for Gethin Jenks and yet you have the MLs loosehead of the year and arguably your best available loosehead, he destroyed the Wales front row 3 weeks ago when he played for the BaaBaas and was running like a 18 yr old great support play, and made the Baa Baas try................... Iestyn Thomas

Gatland generally has stuck with his tried and tested
Out of form - Byrne, Phillips,
Out of position - Hook at FB
Not good enough - Jon Thomas, Bennett (until last week)

etc etc etc

I think the game tomorrow is all about implementing a plan, last week England started off well playing to theirs, Wales not so well.

In the second half Wales changed their plan and implemented it very well whilst England apparently had no answer to it and just about scraped home.

Tomorrow, after having a good look at each other last week, the team that works to the best plan should win.

It's not about having the personnel, it's about executing the ideas of the team room out on the pitch.

I think one or the other will make hay tomorrow and by that mark the winners should be able to pitch their expectations of "success" come the WC.

Taffineastbourne wrote:Agreed.This is all about putting hands up for selection.If everyone plays at their tops we stand a good chance of winning.Really this game is about the individuals/units.The result is secondary-though a W would be nice.Let us just hope that no player from either side gets crocked.

I actually agree but Gats says this game is win at all costs, a win is everything & he has been reported as having made less changes than he originally intended in order to get this all important win.

There appears to be a big difference between the coach & welsh supporters expectations.

Contrast that with MJ saying 'it's all about performing at your best'.

Yours right fly half. I agree with all that. Even picking me up on biggar and bishop. It was just a rant. They looked to be the best options at the time. Whether he looked to develop biggar, Tovey or priestland at 10, I still think they should have had more game time.
I feel its too little too late from gatland and his selection looks like a man whos panicking just a bit.
Gatlands problem is that he hasn't developed a squad. He's got his first team and now he's having to give games to players that should have been given a go 18 months ago.

mog, I think we were both right about biggar in the first place. His attempted transition to international rugby has been a complete failure. He was showing lack of vision for his Region and would often just resort to booting the ball down the field. Not to mention his defence and big gob and Gatlands persistence with him despite his form would really get under my skin... There were actually outcries for an in-form Nicky Robinson at the time but now we'll never see him back in a Wales jersey I guess.

*Bearing in mind last season is referring to the season just gone by (where Biggar played himself even further out of contention) I was talking mostly about the season before.

As jonathon Davies said. He's bot sure if biggar's game i's being hindered by the ospreys tactics.
Personally, and I know I'm biased. Tovey has the most natural ability.
Post WC, I do think Wales will be in a good position in many areas. I know the regions do get criticised by some, but there i's a huge amount coming through. Whether it's gatland or somebody else. I hope these youngsters get their chance.

manofgwent wrote:As jonathon Davies said. He's bot sure if biggar's game i's being hindered by the ospreys tactics.
Personally, and I know I'm biased. Tovey has the most natural ability.
Post WC, I do think Wales will be in a good position in many areas. I know the regions do get criticised by some, but there i's a huge amount coming through. Whether it's gatland or somebody else. I hope these youngsters get their chance.

MOG, agree about Tovey , extremely under rated player and he's out-performed Biggar on a number of occasions without resorting to being gobby about it and I hope he gets a chance post WC to show what he can do.

Having said that I feel for Hook who again has to slot in to 15. Reminds of how Austin Healy was used by England - playing everywhere.

With regards to Hook, he's a hungry player, looks for ball and comes into the line. So really, as long as he's on the field does it really matter where he plays as he always has an influence.

He's also the next best option at 15 after Burne, who is out of touch but still defensively as solid a a rock. So why not play a 10 who's in form and can command a backline, and get our best players on the field.

Sorry don't agree at all. Hook playing 15 has never worked and he fails to bring anything creative from that position. With just two games before the world Cup I fear Gatland has learned nothing.

Hook is fast turnng into the welsh tait.
Gatland obviously wants him in his side, why not just play him at his preferred position and teh one gatland semingly wanted him at.

I guess Hook did ok after all

??Where on earth is the G ?? I was expecting some real taunts towards the English!! Has he been a naughty little again ??

welshjohn369 wrote:??Where on earth is the G ?? I was expecting some real taunts towards the English!! Has he been a naughty little again ??

Martin Johnson wasn't far away ready to be interviewed after Gatland. If Johnson was near me I'd behave too

TrailApe wrote:Don't worry - the Welsh are much fitter, they outscored the English by 3 tries to two, and those English tries were 'soft' ones.

Game in the bag lads, game in the bag!

You got that again Trailape - Nice forecast - Game in the bag and never in doubt eh!