Are Wales currently better than England?

by krusty Tue 23 Aug 2011, 5:33 pm

First topic message reminder :

If Nottins was a cat then this article would be the catnip,

Based on the warm up matches, would you say Wales are currently better than England or are England currently better than Wales?

TWICKENHAM:

England 23 - 19 Wales

England - 2 Tries
Wales - 3 Tries

CARDIFF:

Wales 19 - 9 England

Wales - 1 Try
England - 0 Tries

AGGREGATE:

Wales 38 - 32 England

Wales 4 Tries - England 2 Tries

by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Wed 24 Aug 2011, 2:12 pm

Right now two humpbacks would be a better and more mobile center pairing for England, so yes whales are better than England.

If the question is " were Wales better in the last game" then yes. If the question is w"were Wales better in the previous 2 games this year" then clearly no. If we then ask "have Wales suddenly become a really good side overnight" then the answer is of course no. If you were to ask "have England been playing well below themselves in the last few games" the answerr is a clear yes.

HammerofThunor wrote:Ireland have the "just as long as we beat every side other than France and New Zealand" disease

So how come they keep losing to pretty everyone except England then? They even did their level best to let Italy beat them this year.

by Comfort Wed 24 Aug 2011, 2:19 pm

Offload, as have I! although, we seem a lot better prepared for this World Cup than the last.

Seabisucit! I asuggested with the squad hes taken putting tindall at 12/tuilagi 13. Johnsons probably not going to drop tindall. Maybe they could work as a left/right centre combo. There needs to be some penetration from one of the centers if England are to persist with their boshers.

I think 60/40 to England if a fair split at the moment as I said earlier. England expected to win, not a surprise if Wales do.

by **Biltong** Wed 24 Aug 2011, 2:21 pm

ENGLAND IS BETTER THAN WALES!

There, i said it. Shocked

by Cymroglan Wed 24 Aug 2011, 2:33 pm

England should be far better than Wales our population is far smaller.
Considering how small the population of Wales is we are punching way above our weight.
We are ranked 6th in the world and there is no reason why we cant climb a bit higher thats brilliant for such a small nation.

by Great White Wed 24 Aug 2011, 2:37 pm

I can think of at least five reasons why Wales wont climb higher up the world rankings.

by Cymroglan Wed 24 Aug 2011, 2:38 pm

Great White wrote:I can think of at least five reasons why Wales wont climb higher up the world rankings.

Well done it's good to keep the mind active

by Great White Wed 24 Aug 2011, 2:41 pm

Its a pity then, that you havent taken your own advice ... Rolling Eyes

by Cymroglan Wed 24 Aug 2011, 2:47 pm

Great White wrote:Its a pity then, that you havent taken your own advice ...

I complimented you no need to be bashful, I think you are a extremely knowledgeable poster that adds a lot to threads.

by Great White Wed 24 Aug 2011, 2:51 pm

And I you, so the feeling is mutual.

by BATH_BTGOG Wed 24 Aug 2011, 2:52 pm

Cymroglan wrote:England should be far better than Wales our population is far smaller.
Considering how small the population of Wales is we are punching way above our weight.
We are ranked 6th in the world and there is no reason why we cant climb a bit higher thats brilliant for such a small nation.

Not that old chestnut again

Wake me up when you've moved on. zzz

by Great White Wed 24 Aug 2011, 2:53 pm

BATH_BTGOG wrote:
Cymroglan wrote:England should be far better than Wales our population is far smaller.
Considering how small the population of Wales is we are punching way above our weight.
We are ranked 6th in the world and there is no reason why we cant climb a bit higher thats brilliant for such a small nation.

Not that old chestnut again

Wake me up when you've moved on. zzz

Well precisely.

by Comfort Wed 24 Aug 2011, 2:54 pm

lets just get this nonsense out of the way so we can debate the really important battle between these 2 nations.

Who has the nicest alternative strip for the World Cup? boxing

by BATH_BTGOG Wed 24 Aug 2011, 2:55 pm

Englands kit won't date as quickly as the welsh one!

by Cymroglan Wed 24 Aug 2011, 2:56 pm

Hersh oops I mean BATH_BTGOG you don't believe population size has any relevance ?

by BATH_BTGOG Wed 24 Aug 2011, 2:58 pm

Hersh!!!

not me Doh

i don't think hersh moved to 606v2

by Comfort Wed 24 Aug 2011, 3:00 pm

Cymroglan wrote:Hersh oops I mean BATH_BTGOG you don't believe population size has any relevance ?

Cymro, I understand where you're coming from, but our population is similar to New Zealands so i dont think it washes down that well.

If anything, England should be absolutely disgusted that a small nation such as New Zealand has such an astonishing record against them in their own game. Run

by BATH_BTGOG Wed 24 Aug 2011, 3:08 pm

But guys most kids in state secondry schools have never even seen a rugby union ball.

so yes England is bigger but apart from the posh schools not many play rugby union for one reason or the other, things will change in Wales if Swansea/cardiff can stay/get to the premiership.

by Cymroglan Wed 24 Aug 2011, 3:10 pm

Comfort wrote...Cymro, I understand where you're coming from, but our population is similar to New Zealands so i dont think it washes down that well.

If anything, England should be absolutely disgusted that a small nation such as New Zealand has such an astonishing record against them in their own game.

The difference is they search far and wide we have only recently realised that a third of our population exists.

by Comfort Wed 24 Aug 2011, 3:14 pm

Cymroglan, you mean, theres more than just endless hills north of the Rhondda? Shocked

by Cymroglan Wed 24 Aug 2011, 3:15 pm

Yes

by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Wed 24 Aug 2011, 3:17 pm

Cymroglan wrote:
Comfort wrote...Cymro, I understand where you're coming from, but our population is similar to New Zealands so i dont think it washes down that well.

If anything, England should be absolutely disgusted that a small nation such as New Zealand has such an astonishing record against them in their own game.

Make sure they check their grandparents really exist too
The difference is they search far and wide we have only recently realised that a third of our population exists.

by Mr BDO The true darts. Wed 24 Aug 2011, 3:31 pm

by Guest Wed 24 Aug 2011, 6:14 pm

Cymroglan wrote:England should be far better than Wales our population is far smaller.
Considering how small the population of Wales is we are punching way above our weight.
We are ranked 6th in the world and there is no reason why we cant climb a bit higher thats brilliant for such a small nation.

Yet, we are led to believe it's your national sport (despite the fact that no-one goes to support your super-clubs and North Wales is pretty much a rugby-free zone) so why aren't you up there with NZ?

Using population size for this argument is a very, very simplistic way of looking at it.

by Gatts Wed 24 Aug 2011, 6:15 pm

Stats - 5 wins each since 2005

Defence - Wales

Strength in Depth - England

Setpiece - England

Fitness - Wales

Shirt - Wales

Backs - Wales

Anthem - Wales

Discipline - England

Capt- Wales

Injuries - England

Momentum - Wales

Confidence - Wales

RWC experience - England

Golf - Wales

by majesticimperialman Thu 25 Aug 2011, 5:49 am

Gatts

I do agree with you the Welsh antem is a lot better than ther English one.

by Great White Thu 25 Aug 2011, 8:43 am

SafeAsMilk wrote:
Cymroglan wrote:England should be far better than Wales our population is far smaller.
Considering how small the population of Wales is we are punching way above our weight.
We are ranked 6th in the world and there is no reason why we cant climb a bit higher thats brilliant for such a small nation.
Yet, we are led to believe it's your national sport (despite the fact that no-one goes to support your super-clubs and North Wales is pretty much a rugby-free zone) so why aren't you up there with NZ?

Using population size for this argument is a very, very simplistic way of looking at it.

And to think the guy accused me of bringing nothing to a debate. You've got to laugh.

by Guest Thu 25 Aug 2011, 9:34 am

"Golf - Wales"

Lee Westwood and Luke Donald (current and previous world number 1's) are both English.

by Great White Thu 25 Aug 2011, 9:36 am

I think he meant 'golf buggy'.

by Guest Thu 25 Aug 2011, 9:49 am

Great White wrote:I think he meant 'golf buggy'.

In that case, it's Wales.

by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Thu 25 Aug 2011, 10:00 am

Gatts wrote:Stats - 5 wins each since 2005

Defence - Wales

Strength in Depth - England

Setpiece - England

Fitness - Wales

Shirt - Wales

Backs - Wales

Anthem - Wales

Discipline - England

Capt- Wales

Injuries - England

Momentum - Wales

Confidence - Wales

RWC experience - England

Golf - Wales

Having a better, bigger, more successful rugby Union (at all levels) : England

Endlessly bleating and blaming sky coverage for this : Wales

To be fair for the ize of the population you guys do make a better job of filling the internet with pointless tripe than the English do, not to mention buying a hell of a lot of Liverpool FC t shirts.

by Great White Thu 25 Aug 2011, 10:10 am

Having a national rugby stadium with a pitch you're not ashamed of: England

by Turkster Thu 25 Aug 2011, 10:15 am

awww bless, the Saes are getting uppity. laughing

by mcrjfNo7 Thu 25 Aug 2011, 10:51 am

"England should be far better than Wales our population is far smaller."

So why do China and India not dominate all sports? This population rubbish has been doing the rounds for years and has no more relevance now than in the past. It is based on the (very wrong) assumption that it is the genetic variety (there is joke about Wales and genetic variety in there somewhere) within a population that ensures good players and then a good team. If it was simply a game of physicality with no training/coaching then yes the genetically predisposed stronger/faster people will win - this is never the case in sport and definitely not the case in a professional sport. Training, coaching, exposure to high levels of competition and support are the most important things when it comes to succeeding at sport; when players receive this maximum level of training then yes being bigger/stronger/faster will play its important part but without the training it is nothing. In England the basic coaching level at most amateur clubs is poor, the support system for players is poor and retention of players and then the identification of talent and its subsequent nursing are very poor. A smaller population is often conducive to a better system as players can be more easily identified, the general level of coaching can be increased more easily and less players "slip through the cracks". Some large countries have very good systems, for certain sports, and they therefore maximise their player resources (i.e. the USA).

The Rugby system in England is still very poor. Many on here will know firsthand how much of a dead end it is for most players at amateur clubs; (i.e. the good young players are going nowhere as they will not be identified and the level of coaching is poor - This is not a dig at the coaches as they are often adults giving up their free time to ensure the kids have at least some form of rugby coaching). The player numbers have little bearing when the quality of those players is not where it needs to be to compete on an international level. I have yet to find a better Rugby Union system than the one in NZ – it is exceptional and they maximise their potential. If all countries had the same qualities in terms of coaching etc then yes England should be way above smaller countries but this is simply not the case.

Please can we refrain from using this useless phrase of bigger population when discussing a game that is based on the quality of 22 men not a country’s population.

Ranting makes me happy.

by Great White Thu 25 Aug 2011, 10:56 am

So, what you're saying is that because Wales has a smaller population, actually, all things considered, then they ought to be better than they are, but aren't, so they're rubbish. Got ya Ok!

by welshy824 Thu 25 Aug 2011, 1:13 pm

jesus some people on here are getting so wound up, wales have a much smaller pool of players to select from due partly to population size and poor representation across the country (north has pretty much no representation, espicially regions wise)

but wales for its small pool of players to select from do play very well and secondly does this matter, england beat wales once this summer and vice versa. thats all we can compare, no point saying in 2011 6n, 2008 gs, 2005 gs, 2003 wc etc, all that matters is the last games played as that gives the best representation (and you cant blame injuries as it is unlikely you will always get your 1st squad)

by Great White Thu 25 Aug 2011, 1:16 pm

Can anyone remember when either team was able to select a 1st XV not affected by injury to 1st choice players?

by BATH_BTGOG Thu 25 Aug 2011, 1:22 pm

But injuries are part of the game, when was the last time anyteam put out their 1st choice team?

by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Thu 25 Aug 2011, 1:23 pm

welshy824 wrote: all that matters is the last games played as that gives the best representation (and you cant blame injuries as it is unlikely you will always get your 1st squad)

Youre right, Wales are nowhere near as good as the Pisland sides.

by Shifty Thu 25 Aug 2011, 1:41 pm

I would say which ever side is the home side would be the winner, the teams are about 55% to England and 45% to Wales.

by welshy824 Thu 25 Aug 2011, 10:16 pm

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:
welshy824 wrote: all that matters is the last games played as that gives the best representation (and you cant blame injuries as it is unlikely you will always get your 1st squad)

Youre right, Wales are nowhere near as good as the Pisland sides.

what has that got to do with wales' last match?

by Hound_of_Harrow Thu 25 Aug 2011, 10:45 pm

krusty, you kind of give the game away with the use of the word 'currently'. Obviously Wales won the last game between the two teams. Would you be inclined to ask the same question with regard to France, Australia, SA or NZ?

The IRB rankings kind of give an answer with the Tri-Nations going on plus other RWC warm up games; they are a reasonable guide at the moment.

I can't be @rsed to check who is ranked where atm, but anyone of the top half dozen or so should be fancying themselves at home against any of the other teams.

by nganboy Fri 26 Aug 2011, 3:41 am

Why would Ireland fancy themselves against NZ in Ireland?

by Luckless Pedestrian Fri 26 Aug 2011, 8:19 am

nganboy wrote:Why would Ireland fancy themselves against NZ in Ireland?

If they didn't fancy their chances, what would be the point of playing?

by Great White Fri 26 Aug 2011, 8:21 am

For the money, for the sponsors, to be able to exist as a team?

by nottins Fri 26 Aug 2011, 9:36 am

There you go Krusty, the people have voted.

by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Fri 26 Aug 2011, 9:39 am

I dont know why theres even a debate, you only have to listen to the Sky analysis team to know England are the best.

by **George Carlin** Fri 26 Aug 2011, 10:50 am

As a neutral I would say that on average Wales had the best of the recent 160 minutes these two teams had.

Or to put it another way, I would be happier to be Gatland than Johnson. If you're Gatland, you both know why you lost the first game and won the second.

If you're Johnson, then you've probably got no idea why in the second your pack dialled in their performance and your midfield looked slower than the proverbial snail with heavy shopping.

Inconsistency is a real danger for England, because whilst they may be confident of beating Scotland and Argentina when on form, if England have a collective brainfart of the type they managed to achieve in the second Welsh test then it is not outwith the realms of possibility to lose to both of those teams.

by Gatts Fri 26 Aug 2011, 6:50 pm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/rugby_union/welsh/14680895.stm

quite clearly they are Very Happy

by Taffineastbourne Fri 26 Aug 2011, 8:33 pm

Cymroglan wrote:Hersh oops I mean BATH_BTGOG you don't believe population size has any relevance ?

Not when you are picking Kiwis,Samoans and Saffers.The world is your oyster! Wink

by Taffineastbourne Fri 26 Aug 2011, 8:42 pm

SafeAsMilk wrote:
Cymroglan wrote:England should be far better than Wales our population is far smaller.
Considering how small the population of Wales is we are punching way above our weight.
We are ranked 6th in the world and there is no reason why we cant climb a bit higher thats brilliant for such a small nation.
Yet, we are led to believe it's your national sport (despite the fact that no-one goes to support your super-clubs and North Wales is pretty much a rugby-free zone) so why aren't you up there with NZ?

Using population size for this argument is a very, very simplistic way of looking at it.

North Wales is full of Scousers on the run from Merseyside police,allegedly.The population figures are consequently somewhat distorted.Only joking!There are no crims in Liverpool,this is a cliched stereotype that I did not witness when I worked there,honest! angel

by Sponsored content

Who out of the two nations is currently the best at rugby?