How difficult is an international coach's job?

I know that we all know a lot more about tactics and team selecetions than our respective national coaches but how hard a job do/don't they really have?
Leaving aside the boredom factor of probably not seeing the majority of their players together from one month to the next, they get players coming in from clubs/regions taht have different game plans and it must be difficult getting these players to perhaps have to change to the style of play to the one that the national coach wants. In addition, the likes of Andy Robinson would have to spend the first few hours of each session trying to unteach the Edinburgh players some of the guff that Rob Moffat "taught" them.
When it comes to team selections, it is easy for us to say that X is better than Y so why is Y playing but, again, coaches must look at the bigger picture and will have to consider combinations when picking a team e.g. in the centre, who ideally should have different strengths but who are good players not only in isolation but also with the right player next to them. i was thinking of Tindall and Bananaman - both good players with someone creative next to them but, together, a pretty tousy combo.
Are we too hard on coaches (although imagine what the French 606 must be like with some of the weird stiuff Lievremonth comes out with)?

Well it can't be very hard if PDV is doing it

I would think that he will be off unless SA reach semi, which bearing in mind is likely to be v Ireland should not be a problem. Losing to NZ in the semi seemed very much on the cards until last weekend but now I am not so sure

Gatland will have his bags packed too because if we don't get out of our Group he will be staying in NZ courtesy of the WRU

Gatts has already extended his contract though.
So easy job if you are Wales or Aus coach as they have job security despite RWC results.
It used to be tough to be a NZ coach as if you didn't win it (nothing less) then you were fired but since 2007 its gotten easier.

true but i believe WRU and WG have clauses written in to the contract which allow both to terminate prematurely.

That's what my wife complains about

nganboy wrote:That's what my wife complains about

Every job have different pressures.

Scotland, Andy Robinson simply has to beat Italy each season to keep his job, not much pressure to be honest. Talk your side up, say how close you are to being a World class side, then blame the players when they balls it up.

Wales, Gatland has to deal with an unrealistic amount of expectation from a rugby mad nation who don't have enough quality players to meet the countries expectations. Though a home win over England, or to avoid finishing last would be enough to keep him in the job.

England, Martin Johnson needs not to lose to France at home and to compete for a triple crown. Saying that would you pull Martin Johnson into an office and sack him?
Though the countries expectations have dropped a hell of a lot since Woodward left and mid table obscurity is excepted now.

It doesn't matter who you lose to, or by how much as France's coach, all you really need to do is play attacking rugby the French way. Even a loss to Italy or a 60 point home stuffing by Australia is fine provided your team chucks the ball about.

New Zealand have finally started to lower their expectations, I read once that in the amateur days a New Zealand coach actually got the sack because Japan scored a try in a game against them, and even then they scored 100 points when it was 3-4 points a try!
From what I can remember every coach has got the sack who didnt win a World Cup, yet Graham Henry kept his job after being knocked out in the quarters last time, which is abysmal by their standards. So you could argue they are either behaving realistically for a change or their happy now to accept above average not perfect.

South Africa, a coach from this country can be sacked at any time, there is little organisation and planning to their countries rugby and it's always in chaos for a variety of reasons. In northern hemisphere terms they seem to combine the Welsh need for infighting and self destruction with English arrogance which is a potent mix! South African rugby is a fun roller coaster! Dont get stuffed by New Zealand and beat Australia is good enough these days.

Alyn

Other than the dig at England, I think much of what you said above is reasonable.
I think Johnson was under some pressure a year or so ago - there was little sign of improvement and a perception of an excessively conservative selection policy. A win in Australia, a good win in the return fixture and taking the 6Ns title with a developing side have all enhanced his reputation a bit, although the failures against SA and Ireland indicate we are still a work in progress (the loss to the ABs was not such a big deal, in that we were reasonably competetive in the match and at least the effort couldn't be faulted). So he still needs a good RWC to secure his position (semi final or better would be considered a success, winning the group but losing the QF would be marginal and depend on performance, and failure to win the group considered a failure)

Welsh rugby is a bit like English football - we are forever talking our players up as being the equal of anyone, but when we come up aganst really class opponents this myth is shown up repeatedly. At least you have the fall back of being competetive in the 6Ns about every other year, whereas the England football team has to wait for the next opportunity to beat the Germans...

Alyn, isn't it better to expect mid-table obscurity and end up winning the Six Nations (England) than to expect to win every match you play and end up with 2 wins in a calender year (Wales in 2010)?

I dont really accept I was having a dig at England, all through the 90's a grand slam was expected. Even in the early 2000's England were always close to it, they just lost to Scotland, Ireland and Wales in successive years in the last game to blow it. After the 2003 World Cup when Andy Robinson took over is when English rugby went into a nose dive and expectation reduced a lot, it wasn't until Robinson got sacked and Johnson came in, (and even then it took a few years) that England become accepted as a dangerous team again.
From 2004 to 2009, Wales beat England 4 times out of 6.
Prior to that Wales only beat England once in 12 years!
England have improved recently and you can say their about 50/50 with Wales at the moment.

from a coaching perspective it must be tough to not have the players on a daily basis, especially from getting them up to the physical levels required (in the cases of the NH sides- as one might argue that the step up from british domestic competitions is a bigger jump than from the s15)

however i believe that the best coaches pick the best 15 players and then select a gameplan to suit those 15 players, if your dealing with a pool of talent like new zealand this must be easier (although the pressure must be unbearable) if your pool is smaller then it must be more difficult but then expectations are lower, overall a good question for debate really

Depends which country I suppose. I mean in NZ the job carries more scrutiny than the PM's job. In England you have to deal with sensationalist media like 'Pope rapes Queen. We have pictures.' headlines. Aussie you fight with other sports etc, I don't know coaching in different countries has things better and worse.

AlynDavies wrote:South Africa, a coach from this country can be sacked at any time, there is little organisation and planning to their countries rugby and it's always in chaos for a variety of reasons. In northern hemisphere terms they seem to combine the Welsh need for infighting and self destruction with English arrogance which is a potent mix! South African rugby is a fun roller coaster! Dont get stuffed by New Zealand and beat Australia is good enough these days.

You are not very informed are you?

SA 5 wins, NZ 6 wins since last world cup.

That's not really getting stuffed is it?

But I do agree with you our administration and politics suck.

InjuredYetAgain wrote:
Are we too hard on coaches (although imagine what the French 606 must be like with some of the weird stiuff Lievremonth comes out with)?

You mean the French discuss rugby? I thought they just spent four years refining taunts to wind up New Zealander's after they've knocked us out.