If The Floyd - Pac Fight Never Happens Who Will Come Out Looking Worse???

I would say Pac because let's face it apart from the diehard Pac nuthuggers there will always be the cloud over Pac of whether or not he is on drugs

People will blame Pac but truth is Floyd put up barrier after barrier and only talks about him when Pacquiao has a fight signed, and spends most his time retired.

Scott why wouldnt Pac get the blame all he had to do is give a table spoon of blood

Why should there be a 'cloud' over Pacquiao? Because Mayweather says there should be? He's doing nothing wrong by refusing to bow to the testing demands - and remember, he was at least willing to meet Mayweather half way on that front - and until there is some real evidence to suggest that there may be something fishy about him, I think we should all stick to the 'innocent until proven guilty' dictum.

If the fight never happens, Mayweather comes out looking worse, for me. Pacquiao has proved more in his career in my mind, and has made the most of what talent he has. Mayweather, I'm afraid, has not.

Floyd has always seemed like he is scared of fightiing Pacquiao. I don't know much about boxing so there's a good chance I'm wrong.

That was only a requirement after Pac agreed to other demands. Who knows what Floyd would ask for if he agreed to that. I don't think it would be a problem if they both wanted the fight.

I'm a bit split on this Floyd put up the barrier but it is good for the sport and would be nice to have the elite on side with it.

I'm not sure it will harm either of their legacies if they don't fight but it's not good for the sport. The more it goes on and the more opponents Floyd faces that takes the test it makes Pac look worse of the two imo.

prettyboykev wrote:I'm a bit split on this Floyd put up the barrier but it is good for the sport and would be nice to have the elite on side with it.

I'm not sure it will harm either of their legacies if they don't fight but it's not good for the sport. The more it goes on and the more opponents Floyd faces that takes the test it makes Pac look worse of the two imo.

Balance of power. Floyds other opponents would bark for 10%, they don't get to choose.

I like everyonelse really hopes the fight will happen but sadly if it does Floyd will again not the credit he deserves after he takes Pac out in a one sided fight

C'mon You Irish wrote:I like everyonelse really hopes the fight will happen but sadly if it does Floyd will again not the credit he deserves after he takes Pac out in a one sided fight

Of course he would. The only people that wouldn't give him credit are those that aren't worth listening to.

Scottrf wrote:

prettyboykev wrote:I'm a bit split on this Floyd put up the barrier but it is good for the sport and would be nice to have the elite on side with it.

I'm not sure it will harm either of their legacies if they don't fight but it's not good for the sport. The more it goes on and the more opponents Floyd faces that takes the test it makes Pac look worse of the two imo.

Balance of power. Floyds other opponents would bark for 10%, they don't get to choose.

You're right mate but with just about every boxer that gets a mic put in front of him saying drug testing should be stricter now it doesn't look good for Pac because people will put 2 and 2 together and come up with 5.

^^^ Nah there would defo be some sort of excuse just like every other time he owns an opponent. Mosely was too "Old" and past his best but before the fight many pundits were suggesting he would beat Floyd.

There are even some who try to claim he was luckt to get his victory against ODLH when lets face it that fight was no where near as close as the judges scored it

prettyboykev wrote:You're right mate but with just about every boxer that gets a mic put in front of him saying drug testing should be stricter now it doesn't look good for Pac because people will put 2 and 2 together and come up with 5.

True. Just a shame there is no overall commission to implement it.

Scottrf wrote:

prettyboykev wrote:You're right mate but with just about every boxer that gets a mic put in front of him saying drug testing should be stricter now it doesn't look good for Pac because people will put 2 and 2 together and come up with 5.

True. Just a shame there is no overall commission to implement it.

Read something similar the other day about Margarito and how banning him was pretty pointless because he went to Mexico and fought anyway. It may have been in boxing news. Same with this if the Nevada state commission for example took a stand on it cheats would fight in NY or Atlantic City.

pac for me would be to blame, take the test. You are the biggest name (1 of 2) in the sport. sets a great example because boxing needs to be cleaned up a bit.

C'mon You Irish wrote:^^^ Nah there would defo be some sort of excuse just like every other time he owns an opponent. Mosely was too "Old" and past his best but before the fight many pundits were suggesting he would beat Floyd.

There are even some who try to claim he was luckt to get his victory against ODLH when lets face it that fight was no where near as close as the judges scored it

You have to differentiate between neutral observers and Floyd haters. He got plenty of credit for beating Mosley.

Scottrf wrote:

C'mon You Irish wrote:^^^ Nah there would defo be some sort of excuse just like every other time he owns an opponent. Mosely was too "Old" and past his best but before the fight many pundits were suggesting he would beat Floyd.

There are even some who try to claim he was luckt to get his victory against ODLH when lets face it that fight was no where near as close as the judges scored it

You have to differentiate between neutral observers and Floyd haters. He got plenty of credit for beating Mosley.

Irish you need to stop listening to every opinion you hear and giving them the same credence a lot of people have agendas. To many nuthuggers around as well. You should only listen to the people who's opinion you respect that's why I always ignore Scott!!!

Panny Macquiao will look worse. He wouldnt take the test which gives people the impression he was guilty of taking PEDs. Plus half of the recent opponents Panny has beaten were Floyds hand-me-downs. Also, Floyd has the 0 on his record. Panny has 3 Ls on his. And dont forget that Floyd beat up the Big Show as well

I think Floyd would look worse in my opinion.

These mini retirements and the vile rant at Pac Man do not give him any high ground.

Whilst acknowledging the criticisms of Manny's recent opponents and his timing in fighting them, I think his career has better names and has left fans far more excited and engaged than Floyd.

I they do fight, I expect to Floyd to win though.

i think floyd looks worse, he wont take a fight on the same rules that every other boxer fights by, why should he be special and get to lay down demands to other fighter? pacquiao has proved a lot more than mayweather, and even though he is the more talented fighter he has not shown the heart and determination than manny has in his previous fights. his wars with morales, barrera and JMM are what mayweathers career lacks, those rare defining moments. dont know the the details of the drug allagations, but i know manny said he would be willing to give a blood sample immediatly after the fight- therefore i see no reason the fight could not happen if floyd wanted it to but has genuine concerns about pac man been on steriods. this fight needs to happen though and if it never does both fighters should be ashamed, as it would take no effort for manny to agree to the terms, its just a pride thing.

Lol at Manny fighting better opponents than Floyd.

He REFUSED to fight Mosely untill he was destroyed by Floyd he put a weight stipulation on both ODLH and Cotto and than finally grows a pair of balls to give Marquez the rematch he DESERVES when he is way past his best.

Let's not forget his joke of a fight against Clottey

Now look at Floyd after a break of 15 months he comes back and fights a Live and very dangerous opponent

TAKE THE TEST PAC

C'mon You Irish wrote:Lol at Manny fighting better opponents than Floyd.

Barrera, Morales, Cotto, SFW Marquez, lol.

Is that the Marquez who beat him defiently in one of there fights and could be argued beat him in the other aswell. Also correct me if i am wrong but hasnt Floyd already schooled him after being out for 2 years when he was rated pound for pound number 2

As for Cotto LOL Weight Stipulation SNM

Up your level and I'll consider ending this debate.

C'mon you irish - Floyd "schooled him" after making him weigh in at a catchweight - and then weighing in 4 pounds heavier than that catchweight.

You wish to question Manny for weight stipulation - he hasn't cheated like Floyd did with the weight stip for the Marquez fight. Justify that to us all please.

Furthermore - Barrera alone (let alone the fact Manny whupped him twice) is a better boxer than all of Floyd's first reign opponents at WW put together. Throw in LWW as well.

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For me - Floyd looks a bit worse - AS LONG as Manny keeps his opposition up. If the standard of opposition takes a marked dip - his legacy could with it. Lets face it - half of the more "transient" (read ignorant) and casual boxing fans believe Manny's first fight was ODLH and he'd done nothing before that. Frustrating, really.

C'mon You Irish wrote:I would say Pac because let's face it apart from the diehard Pac nuthuggers there will always be the cloud over Pac of whether or not he is on drugs

~ Why Mr. Irish sir, clouds of methane always follow around soft lads with jelly brains quoting nonsense.

Appears the world is agaga with diehards boxing insiders and fans who have hands down made Mr. Manny both the best and most popular fighter of the decade without question.

Mr. Money and all his boring shoulder roll fights will be buried under tons of accumulated dust only to be unearthed by boxing historians a century hence who will be most interested in the Senior Hernandez, Chavez, and Castillo fights. How are these little guys taking it hard to a big, strong, young superfeather and then a few years later Mr. Money is muscling up to Mr. Mosley like he's the Hulk?

Last I checked, it's the Mayweather family with a truck load of criminal history including drug dealing. Yes sir, that cloud of methane does become you and gives off a certain "aura" to your boxing meanderings.

I think it'll come down to the blood test. As I said on another thread; if Mayweather keeps fighting opponents who agree to his testing demands, and more high-profile boxers are vocal in their support for more stringent drug testing within the sport, Pacquiao is left with very little to hide behind.

I did originally think Pacquiao was right to refuse to bow to Mayweather's demand because Mayweather had no right to demand what the governing bodies were not. I still think Pacquiao was right to refuse on that basis, but his continued refusal in the face of growing support for higher standards is leaving me-and no doubt many others-to draw one simple, logical and increasingly undeniable conclusion.

As an aside; the fact that Pacquiao fought Margarito in Texas because California wouldn't grant him a license adds circumstancial weight to Mayweather's case. If Pacquiao and those around him are able to fly in the face of what one State Commission finds acceptable, why shouldn't Mayweather also be allowed the same freedom?

Put simply: Pacquiao will come off worse because he's not acting to dispel the rumours.

This is what people will remember about the last negotiation and the fact that it was Floyd who ran away:

“Both times, the fight was very close to being made. And, the second time around, all that I can say is that you would have to ask Floyd Mayweather, Jr. why the fight wasn’t made,” Greenburg tells, as quoted by Satterfield. To this day, I really don’t know why he decided that he didn’t want to fight anymore in the fall.”

The fact remains though that Pacquiao never agreed to be blood-tested under fully randomised conditions. They're both to blame, but this blood-testing, drug accusation situation will hang over Pacquiao like a dark cloud.

Agreed on the 2nd sentence.

As for your 1st sentence, apparently, drug testing was not an issue during the negotiation, otherwise the Mayweather camp would have made sure everyone knew about it. And used it as the reason why the negotiation fell through, but they didn't. Curious that they remained quiet about it.

Agree completely that the refusal by Pac will a black mark against his career after he has gone but I can completely understand why he refused.

It's a unique problem with boxing in that opponents can dictate to each other what rules they have to meet under, doesn't happen in any other sports as far as I know.

Difficult issue, the truth is as others have said Floyd does not set the rules for the sport so Manny is well within his rights to tell him to stick it and does not have any obligation to do anything above and beyond what is in the rules, particularly as Chris rightly says Manny has never been proven with anything beyond rumours and mindless speculation to have used anything illegal, so the line of innocent till proven guilty is one that is valid.

However whatever his reasons for asking which I don't think for a minute are based on altruism in asking for everyone in the sport to prove they are clean Floyd does kind of have the moral high ground as it is something every sportsman in every sport should be obliged to prove, and the testing in boxing currently is inadequate. Fence sitting a little but have to say if the fight does not happen it hurts both fighters a little, because who is the best should be proven in the ring and not in the court of public opinion.

I'm surprised to see you taking the "moral high ground line" rowley.

Burley had the moral high ground over the dealings with Sugar Ray - but that hasn't harmed Sugar's all time rep has it? As a Burley fan, I would think that you would appreciate that the moral high ground does not ensure a fighter is remembered in perpetua?

Rowley you must be in agony from all the splinters in your butt...

oxring wrote:I'm surprised to see you taking the "moral high ground line" rowley.

Burley had the moral high ground over the dealings with Sugar Ray - but that hasn't harmed Sugar's all time rep has it? As a Burley fan, I would think that you would appreciate that the moral high ground does not ensure a fighter is remembered in perpetua?

Too right, seems there is only me who remembers Robbo as the ducker he blatantly was, my point was more in 30 years or so I personally feel drug testing across all sports will be pretty much universal and rigourous and given that the why's and why nots of Floyd's request will be largely forgotten as it will be seen as he was only asking for something that was inevitable and necessary. I often compare this with John L Sullivan and the introduction of gloves, is often portrayed that Sully was a trailblazer backing the move to gloves due to the long term good and acceptance of the sport, when the reality is as a puncher wearing gloves hurt his hands less, the good of the sport probably didn't come into it, but this is largely forgotten by history as I feel Floyd's motives mat well be long term.

Floyd will come out better.......unbeaten, greater skill range, not a catchweight merchant, and generally a top 10/20 alltimer...

ten years time all this testing stuff will be old hat...

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:ten years time all this testing stuff will be old hat...

What makes you think that?

Well, on here I doubt either will get much credit!

Pacman was a catchweight fighter and Mayweather a ducker.

Personally feel that Mayweather will come off worse as it is him that is putting 'personal' barriers in the way.

Both will finish their careers being considered great fighters by most however.