A word on the All Blacks' play: Cheats

Interesting read.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/opinion/5535927/A-word-on-the-All-Blacks-play-Cheats

Geesh, harsh words..

I guess it all depends which side of the ditch you're from.. if it's cheating or skill..

LOL!!

For heavens sake dont let GreyGhost see this, He'll hav a coronary!!!

IF the man was honest he could write a similar article ON every country in the land.Starting how the great England side under Sir Clive Woodward,led
J Johnson ,Dallagio,and Back THEY wrote the Book.
First rule in Rugby play to the Referee,I absolutly love it because the All Blacks are the best team in the World[by results].
Ipso facto they are the best Cheats,in EVERY Breakdown the Ref could
penalize either side for a dozen different offences.
How many Refs know enough about the Scrum to pick constant infringements by both sides.
Forward passes,Rush defence that dos`nt work unless your offside.same with kick and chase.
Players pinned down by All Blacks,maybe,Australia on Saturday were doing it better and got away with it.
Nonu penalised for tackling the man without the ball,Conrad Smith,and McCaw had the same thing done to them no penalty.
Vito penalised for coming in the side of a ruck.Horwill at the same Ruck standing offside at All Black side of the ruck nothing.
In the Bok match at least two penalties for not releasing at the Breakdown
Heinrich Broussow was pinning the offending player down,he COULD`nt release.No one says he`s cheating ,listen to the one eyed commentators.
Brilliant play he WON[cheated!!!}a penalty for his side.What was said before the match,we will get physical and WIN penalties.ANOTHER Euphesim
for cheating.
IF are truthful,open both eyes EVERY team on the planet cheats,collapsing scrums,crooked scrum and lineout feeds are coached.
As long as the IRB allows such complex laws ,instead of simplifying them it
will go on.
Recent bitching about the TMO`s duties needs fixing let the TMO advise on cheating..YES there will be games ruined by penalties ,and cards.
BUT eventually instead of coaches condoning,and even teaching them eventually thelesson will be learned.
Ive never read such niave biased,one eyed, clap trap in my live,GROW UP cheating has been rife.
Since William Webb Ellis picked up the ball and ran ,and EVERY country worth there salt does it.The credo isn`t playup,playup,and play the game.
It`s what can I get away with to help my team,when your team wins it does`nt matter how.Every team has an ENFORCER what do you think his duties are?to give the other sides players a good talking too !!!.

Mark Reason is one of England's most experienced sports columnists, he migrated to New Zealand and now calls this country home.

And yet to this day, I meet English people who still ponder aloud why the rest of the world believe their comments border on ignorance.

I can see him now, sitting in one of those mock-English pubs on the North Shore watching Arsenal v Man U. on play back seething into his Boddingtons Pub Ale.

Mark Reason has "form" for these types of comments.

I do find it amusing how some migrants can form an irrational dislike for the locals in their adopted country and seize any opportunity to aggravate or put down their new compatriots

Sick of all this to be honest. Every team does and the hypocrisy staggers me. Since New Zealand are usually the benchmark they cop it more than anyone because everyone's trying to get a leg up over them. Just tall poppy syndrome.

I also think that bringing the Rainbow Warrior into it is getting low. People died, y'know.

Frankly if he'd posted that article here, I reckon he'd be serving a 24 hour ban. I got one, don't y'know for just pointing out that half the English team were not English.

Kiwireddevil wrote:Mark Reason has "form" for these types of comments.

I do find it amusing how some migrants can form an irrational dislike for the locals in their adopted country and seize any opportunity to aggravate or put down their new compatriots

Whatever do you mean KRD? Not suggesting a case of Pot/Kettle colour establishment are you?

Carpe Diem wrote:

Kiwireddevil wrote:Mark Reason has "form" for these types of comments.

I do find it amusing how some migrants can form an irrational dislike for the locals in their adopted country and seize any opportunity to aggravate or put down their new compatriots

Whatever do you mean KRD? Not suggesting a case of Pot/Kettle colour establishment are you?

Who me?

Good article and so true.

My favourite comment below the article was this one.

Aaron #638 03:15 pm Aug 31 2011
You're a cheat for making me read this article! I want my 10 minutes back!


10MINS to read that! ha ha ha

HERSH wrote:Good article and so true.

My favourite comment below the article was this one.

Aaron #638 03:15 pm Aug 31 2011
You're a cheat for making me read this article! I want my 10 minutes back!


10MINS to read that! ha ha ha

Hersh. Your comment borders on ignorance.

I think we can now close that "who is the bigger whinger" thread. Having found the winner.

I agree with Wayne Barnes.

Thought it was too good to be true, 606v2 had gone nearly 10 days without a New Zealanders cheat article. BORING.

Colin meads has announced the abs dont cheat but is prepared to discuss the matter personally with anyone with an issue with it. Openly and without bias.
For some reason the discussion needs to take place behind his no. 5 Shearing shed at his tekuiti home.

Hardly breaking news though. We've all known it for years.

aucklandlaurie wrote:
Thought it was too good to be true, 606v2 had gone nearly 10 days without a New Zealanders cheat article. BORING.

Yep. It seems that "New Zealand cheats" has usurped that "New Zealand poaches South Sea Islands" myth, now that some of the English fans have (a) realised it isn't true and (b) become a little embarrassed that their team is largely comprised of foreigners now.

I like the broad all-encompassing nature and utter lack of any specifics. It's just such utterly transparently sand-pit stuff "yeah, well you lot, CHEAT" and those great substantiating arguments "Just watch them play, it's all cheating, all of it.". Have to say, as far as uneducated and childish whining goes, this particular line of complaint just about takes the biscuit for all time barrel bottom scraping.

to be fair guys, how dare you score more points than the other team, its definitely cheating.

how dare you.

Change ' New Zealand' to any side with a reasonable amount of success and the article still reads relevant.

Its part of the game we love, the same as refereeing inrerpretations and the colours of alternative kits.

New Zealand cheats

New Zealand poaches South Sea Islands

Dr Kenneth Noisewater wrote:New Zealand poaches South Sea Islands

Wow, why would we boil books by RL Stevenson?

Geography lesson: The "South Seas" do not exist outside of historical pirate novels.

Now if you meant to suggest that New Zealand selects players of Pacific Island descent then what of it? So do Tonga, Samoa, Fiji, Australia, England, Wales, ...

Not selecting eligible players because of race counts as discrimination

KWD - Cool your jets. It was a p1ss-take of your man GG.

The sentence doesn't even make sense.

Dr Kenneth Noisewater wrote:KWD - Cool your jets. It was a p1ss-take of your man GG.

The sentence doesn't even make sense.

Sorry mate, the term "South Sea Islander" is a pet peeve - it's regarded as a racist term in parts of the Pacific.

Dr Kenneth Noisewater (Nottins), I refute your contention which I fear has crossed the border into ignorance.

I will now be blissfully unaware of any further of your attention seeking attempts. So knock yourself out.

KRD - no need to apologise.

TheGreyGhost wrote:Dr Kenneth Noisewater (Nottins), I refute your contention which I fear has crossed the border into ignorance.

I will now be blissfully unaware of any further of your attention seeking attempts. So knock yourself out.

Eh?

Look. New Zealand do cheat. It's just a fact. There are countless examples. They cheat in every game they play. Denying it is laughable.

But EVERY rugby team cheats. If there is a rugby team somewhere that never bends the rules then I'd say they're not very successful.

The thing that annoys the opposition is that New Zealand are much cleverer at it and seem to get away with more.

Oh stop whining.

I give up.


Only New Zealand cheat.

Wales have no chance of beating S.Africa and shouldnt bother turning up at all, looks like we'll be lucky to scrape past namibia according to some people.

England are full of mercenarys and not a single member of their team grew up dreaming of playing for England.

Wayne Barnes has an agenda against the All Blacks, he doesnt just make mistakes.

The mullet is a good hairstyle, flambouyant yet efficient.

Cooper is a big girls blouse.

McCaw isn't the messiah, hes a very naughty boy.

George North (despite speaking welsh fluently and living in Wales his whole life) is English.

NZ are the best team, so they must be the biggest cheats. Isn't that what this thread is about?

disneychilly wrote:NZ are the best team, so they must be the biggest cheats. Isn't that what this thread is about?

I dont even know anymore, all the threads in the world descend into one of the above categories with no-one making any sense and everyone twisting stories to suit their purpose!

I think the original topic was that only NZ cheat and thats why they're considered the beat in the world........

I thought the gist of it was more: English journalist moves to NZ then shoots his mouth off in the local press trying to drag the reputation of the national team of his adopted country, and host of the show piece tournament through the gutter, not to mention bringing into question the integrity of the sport as a whole on the eve of the game's showpiece. That was it wasn't it?

Very professional of him.

All these arguments sound fine.

Skill, fitness etc have no part to play in the modern game

G2 wrote:All these arguments sound fine.

Skill, fitness etc have no part to play in the modern game

+1

TheGreyGhost wrote:I thought the gist of it was more: English journalist moves to NZ then shoots his mouth off in the local press trying to drag the reputation of the national team of his adopted country, and host of the show piece tournament through the gutter, not to mention bringing into question the integrity of the sport as a whole on the eve of the game's showpiece. That was it wasn't it?

Very professional of him.

add a dash of xenophobia and a pinch of constant whingeing and sounds like you two are made for each other. I'm sure he could get you into the RWC games as his +1

regarding the article (and fully agreeing with several of the above posts) the actual premise is quite correct, although I'd use the words pushing the laws rather than cheating. McCaw is an awesome player partly because he has the skill to play the ref, in other words to get away with things that lesser players dont. I would LOVE to have a player of his ability in the England team. The closest we have had is probably Neil Back, who won us countless turnovers by "cheating" sometimes quite blatantly (apologiees people of Munster).

And dont save your rage GG, I am not saying that Neil Back was better than Richie is.

*meant save your rage xx

damngoodOvalball wrote:*meant save your rage xx

dont do it GG, he meant it, do not save your rage!

unleash hell!

plus, I think i mentioned it earlier, just replace "New Zealand" with the most successful team of any era and the whole article is just as true.

Kiwireddevil wrote:Mark Reason has "form" for these types of comments.

I do find it amusing how some migrants can form an irrational dislike for the locals in their adopted country and seize any opportunity to aggravate or put down their new compatriots

Joking aside (seeing as I know you don't really do that much anyway) I understand what you mean with this comment. Most of our friends here are Canadian but we do know a couple of fellow Brits - every time we see they spend all their time moaning about things Canadian. I always feel like saying if you don't like it then f*** off back to England, but the Mrs would be upset if I did.

As with most others on here I agree, the All Blacks do cheat and probably a bit more than some of the other top nations. However, they are good at getting away with it and unless they are caught then fair play, you do what needs doing to win - this is top class international sport. I'm realistic enough to know that one of the reasons England won in 2003 was that at the time they were the best at the (very) dark arts.

And Munster were great at the dark arts when they were European Champions. And I seem to remember a few blocks by Leinster when they made that magnificent comeback in the final this year. The reason that the best rugby team is always open to the accusation of 'cheating', is because EVERY team bends the rules. Any team would love to have Back or McCaw. I just find it funny when Kiwi's point blank deny that the All Blacks bend the rules at all. They do, and they're very good at it.

I can't believe we're discussing New Zealand's alleged cheating after two weeks which saw local South African, then Australian TMO's blatantly cheat to favour the home team. Wayne Barnes (chief cheat) referee NZ, and Quade Cooper knee a prone Richie McCaw in the head and get away with it by telling one of the most obvious lies in sporting history at the judiciary.

If we're pointing the finger why not start at the kind of institutional cheating that sees things like the 16 man debacle and Bloodgate happen. Remind which nation was responsible for those?

I think it was the same nation who's skipper was headbutted in the back of the head by an All Black, whilst lying at the bottom of the ruck. I seem to recall the excuse then as he cant have done because he believes in god or something like that.

RE the article, just accept it and be proud that the AB's are better at it than all the other teams who attempt to do the same. Stop being so precious!

The article isn't a celebration of NZ's sneakiness, it's an all out assault.

You can't level a withering attack on a team's integrity and then accuse their supporters of being "precious" when they respond.

Read through all the above comments GG. A huge majority of all the posters are basically saying that they wish their teams were as good at 'pushing the rules' at the breakdown so to speak, as the ABs.

Your typical response to anyone who dares suggest anything slightly negative about NZ, even when doing so in a postive light (again, see above comments) is to deny it then lash out off subject about Wayne Barnes, pretty much every other ref, British colonial history, the tube, food poisoning, etc etc etc blah blah blah weep weep weep.

As Feckless Rogue put it, "The reason that the best rugby team is always open to the accusation of 'cheating', is because EVERY team bends the rules. Any team would love to have Back or McCaw. I just find it funny when Kiwi's point blank deny that the All Blacks bend the rules at all. They do, and they're very good at it.."

Now stop being so precious

Kiwireddevil wrote:Mark Reason has "form" for these types of comments.

I do find it amusing how some migrants can form an irrational dislike for the locals in their adopted country and seize any opportunity to aggravate or put down their new compatriots

Pure class, unfortunately too subtle for those who habitually "border on ignorance".

Have this on me.

TheGreyGhost wrote:I thought the gist of it was more: English journalist moves to NZ then shoots his mouth off in the local press trying to drag the reputation of the national team of his adopted country, and host of the show piece tournament through the gutter, not to mention bringing into question the integrity of the sport as a whole on the eve of the game's showpiece. That was it wasn't it?

Very professional of him.

At least you have the good grace to do it for free.

TheGreyGhost wrote:The article isn't a celebration of NZ's sneakiness, it's an all out assault.

You can't level a withering attack on a team's integrity and then accuse their supporters of being "precious" when they respond.

I can't believe you haven't exploded yet.

You're better than the telly; even though the level of repeats is about the same, you still edge it.

NZ cheat,every team cheats,McCaw cheats,Jennings cheats,hell even Warburton probably cheats. Any good backrow should cheat. Move on.

The AB's DON'T cheat, while all the rest of the teams DO cheat, because the AB's have every ref and IRB comittee in their pockets.

How bad does it have to be before the AB's get their just deserts, and as for the earlier crack about England under Clive Woodward having written the book, well, if they did, then they got the Blueprint from the Kiwi's. If the AB's have to face what England have had to face, and still do, they would'nt have the one WC that they possess. ( mind you the AB's were the only pro side at the time)


I am an ardent England fan, but don't care who wins the Webb-Ellis as long as those cheating, whinging AB's fall short. I thank you!

Of course NZ have every ref in their pocket. I mean Wayne Barnes did everything in his power to help NZ win the QF but the All Blacks just didn't get the hint.

Staggered at the ignorance too. If NZ were a pro side then would Craig Green have been sitting outside his house at 6am on the Monday afterwards waiting to go to work?

Also hypocrisy. If Neil Back wasn't breaking every rule in the book then England wouldn't have their only WC either. Jog on mate.