Ireland vs USA Discussion Thread

[MMC]

With the team announcements just around the corner I will post the teams here once they've been named. This will help us to keep all the discussion to one thread.

In the meantime, this is the place to be for team news, speculation, score predictions, and just about anything else related to the game that people want to talk about.

Forget August, forget Australia the week after, forget about the future of Ireland after the world cup. Our World Cup starts right here.

COME ON IRELAND!!

Ireland team to face USA:

15 - Geordan Murphy (Leicester Tigers)
14 - Tommy Bowe (Ospreys) *
13 - Brian O'Driscoll (UCD/Leinster) (capt)
12 - Gordon D'Arcy (Lansdowne/Leinster)
11 - Keith Earls (Young Munster/Munster) *
10 - Jonathan Sexton (St. Mary's College/Leinster) *
9 - Conor Murray (Garryowen/Munster) *
1 - Tom Court (Malone/Ulster) *
2 - Rory Best (Banbridge/Ulster)
3 - Mike Ross (Clontarf/Leinster) *
4 - Donncha O'Callaghan (Cork Constitution/Munster)
5 - Paul O'Connell (Young Munster/Munster)
6 - Stephen Ferris (Dungannon/Ulster) *
7 - Shane Jennings (St. Mary's College/Leinster) *
8 - Jamie Heaslip (Naas/Leinster) *

Replacements:

16 - Jerry Flannery (Shannon/Munster)
17 - Tony Buckley (Sale Sharks)*
18 - Donnacha Ryan (Shannon/Munster)*
19 - Denis Leamy (Cork Constitution/Munster)
20 - Eoin Reddan (Lansdowne/Leinster)
21 - Ronan O'Gara (Cork Constitution/Munster)
22 - Andrew Trimble (Ballymena/Ulster)


USA Team: B Scully; T Ngwenya, P Emerick, A Suniula, J Paterson; R Suniula, M Petri; M MacDonald, P Thiel, S Pittman, J van der Giessen, H Smith, L Stanfill, T Clever (capt), N Johnson.

Replacements: C Biller, M Moeakiola, S LaValla, P Danahy, T Usasz, N Malifa, C Hawley.

[caoimhincentre]

Good man MMC.

C'MON IRELAND

[MMC]

A couple of news snippets from this morning...

FITNESS doubt Sean O’Brien declared himself ready to play in Ireland’s World Cup opening fixture this Sunday against the USA.

Ireland prop Cian Healy has been ruled out of Sunday’s World Cup opener against the USA in New Plymouth.

Ireland team manager Paul McNaughton confirmed today that the Leinster loosehead is unavailable but should be in action against Australia six days later.

The squad was otherwise given a clean bill of health with Sean O’Brien, Gordon D’Arcy and Rob Kearney all passed fit to face the USA.

Munster rookie [Murray] set to start World Cup opener -- one month after making his Ireland debut.

One thing is for sure, no matter what team Kidney names it's going to be a strong one. I hope we go out there with full guns blazing.

[Portnoy]

I can't recall having a genuine second-favourite in the RWC before.

But this time around I have ... C'MON IRELAND

Let a golden generation make you proud..

[Rava]

Court Best Ross
POC Ryan
Ferris Heaslip Jennings

Murray Sexton
D'Arcy BOD
Bowe Trimble Kearney

[caoimhincentre]

Going on images on the IRFU Site i reckon the team will be as follows.

Court, Best, Ross
DOC,POC
Jennings, Heaslip, Ferris
Murray, Sexton,
???, BOD,Bowe,????
?????

[MMC]

I can't recall having a genuine second-favourite in the RWC before.

But this time around I have ... C'MON IRELAND

Let a golden generation make you proud..

Good man Portnoy. Have a on me. I want England and all the other 6 Nations side to do well, just not at the expense of Ireland.

Does anyone know when the team announcements are for both sides? I know ours is Friday, but is that NZ time - meaning it could be tonight?

[Mickado]

Here's my prediction

Court – Best – Ross
Ryan – POC
Leamy – Heaslip – Jennings
Murray – Sexton
Earls – Wallace – O’Driscoll – Bowe
Kearney


MON IRELAND!!!!!

[MMC]

I think we'll see:

Court – Best – Ross
DOC – POC
Ferris – Heaslip – Jennings
Murray – Sexton
Earls (Trimble rested)– Wallace – O’Driscoll – Bowe
Kearney

[Portnoy]

I can't recall having a genuine second-favourite in the RWC before.

But this time around I have ... C'MON IRELAND

Let a golden generation make you proud..

Good man Portnoy. Have a on me. I want England and all the other 6 Nations side to do well, just not at the expense of Ireland.

Does anyone know when the team announcements are for both sides? I know ours is Friday, but is that NZ time - meaning it could be tonight?

Just PM me your credit/debit card details MMC - and I'll take you up on that

[Biltong]

Well you guys better win by 30, not a point more or a point less. you stuffed up my predictions for the winter tests, so no more chances.

[rodders]

I can't recall having a genuine second-favourite in the RWC before.

But this time around I have ... C'MON IRELAND

Let a golden generation make you proud..

Nice 1 Portnoy

I'm expecting the USA to to be really fired up for this and us to be a bit rusty so I think it will be a narrow Irish victory.

Team prediction:

15 Kearney
14 Bowe
13 BOD
12 Wallace
11 Trimble
10 Sexton
9 Murray
8 Heaslip
7 Jennings
6 Ferris
5 POC
4 DOC
3 Court
2 Best
1 Ross

Subs: Buckley, Flannery, Ryan, Leamy, Boss, ROG, Earls/Murphy

[MMC]

Good man Portnoy. Have a on me.

Just PM me your credit/debit card details MMC - and I'll take you up on that

I have $8.5 million dollars in an offshore bank account that you're welcome to. Perhaps you would help me to retrieve it? I just need your bank account details so I can set up a transfer...

On a serious note - does anyone think we might see a few attacking moves on Sunday? To be honest I'd be more than satisfied if we see some straight angles of running, attempts being made to fix defenders and have some space created for our wingers before they receive a pass.

[caoimhincentre]

Hopefully we will. Like yourself i would like to see running at pace at gaps in the opposition defensive line

[rodders]

On a serious note - does anyone think we might see a few attacking moves on Sunday? To be honest I'd be more than satisfied if we see some straight angles of running, attempts being made to fix defenders and have some space created for our wingers before they receive a pass.

Er not really. It's all about creating quick ball, if we are able to do that then the gaps and line breaks will come.

Its harder to attack off 1st phase now because of the deeper defences so I think back moves are a bit of a red red herring. We need to get the basics right and play heads up rugby but it all starts with the pack.

If we get our set piece right and dominate the breakdown then I'm sure the points will come.

Edit: We need to see some powerful carrying across the board though as we are far to reliant on SOB and Wallace.

[Mickado]

On a serious note - does anyone think we might see a few attacking moves on Sunday? To be honest I'd be more than satisfied if we see some straight angles of running, attempts being made to fix defenders and have some space created for our wingers before they receive a pass.

Exactly, I hope we don’t see side to side rugby this week. It could well work, but against England we saw that it’s utterly useless against a good defense.

A simple plan of attack, carried out with effective efficiency would be loverly please and thanks.

[red_stag]

I'm expecting:



01 Court

02 Best

03 Ross

Healy is injured so we go for Court.



04 O'Callaghan

05 O'Connell

First choice lock pairing.



06 Ferris

07 Jennings

08 Heaslip

O'Brien is recovering from a knock, Ferris needs gametime and Jennings plays 7 better than Leamy.



09 Murray

10 Sexton

Promising young scrumhalf on the big stage and lets Sexton gather confidence ahead of Aussie match.



12 Wallace

13 BOD

Darcy not fit. BOD has to play. Simply has to.



11 Earls

14 Bowe

15 Kearney

Trimble needs a break and Bowe and Kearney need games.



Bench: Flannery, Buckley, Ryan, O'Brien, Reddan, ROG, Murphy

A lot of experience there in Flannery, Murphy, ROG and Reddan in case things go wrong. I reckon O'Brien needs a few mins run out and Ryan gives us cover at both lock and a lineout option at 6.

[Boyne]

On a serious note - does anyone think we might see a few attacking moves on Sunday? To be honest I'd be more than satisfied if we see some straight angles of running, attempts being made to fix defenders and have some space created for our wingers before they receive a pass.

Thats a good question.

I hope we dont. I hope we have enough to win and win verry ugly against the US.

4 tries... all the BPs , bells and whistles ect without giving ANYTHING away.

We should have enough to do that without

1. Putting out the 1st 15 and
2. Showing all our fancy Dan moves...

[red_stag]

What do people make about the idea that Eddie can give the Yanks inside knowledge of how we do things. Personally I don't see he'd be any real help.



Over 1/3 of our probable team were given our debuts under Kidney (O'Brien, Court, Ryan, Murray, Sexton, Earls, Ross) and I'd say he has minimal knowledge of the likes of Bowe, Kearney, Heaslip, Ferris who barely featured for him.

[Mickado]

What do people make about the idea that Eddie can give the Yanks inside knowledge of how we do things. Personally I don't see he'd be any real help.



Over 1/3 of our probable team were given our debuts under Kidney (O'Brien, Court, Ryan, Murray, Sexton, Earls, Ross) and I'd say he has minimal knowledge of the likes of Bowe, Kearney, Heaslip, Ferris who barely featured for him.

Can't see it having much of a baring on things. As you say a lot of our likely lineup were given debuts by Kidney and our style of play has changed a lot in 3 years.

[MMC]

On a serious note - does anyone think we might see a few attacking moves on Sunday? To be honest I'd be more than satisfied if we see some straight angles of running, attempts being made to fix defenders and have some space created for our wingers before they receive a pass.

Thats a good question.

I hope we dont. I hope we have enough to win and win verry ugly against the US.

4 tries... all the BPs , bells and whistles ect without giving ANYTHING away.

We should have enough to do that without

1. Putting out the 1st 15 and
2. Showing all our fancy Dan moves...

Hmmm, I'm not sure I agree completely.

Firstly, we DO have enough to beat them. Saying that isn't disrespectful, it's fact. It's the same as saying that the All Blacks have enough to beat Italy.

While 4 tries is obviously the goal I think a dour and ugly affair wouldn't really do us too much good in terms of confidence. Of course a 4 try ugly win is far far more preferable than a 3 try flashy win but we should be aiming for a convincing bonus point win.

When I mentioned attacking moves, I was focussed more on playing basic rugby, such as fixing defenders and earning the right to go wide (as cliché as that is). I should have made that clearer. We just haven't been doing this lately.

I just want to see an improved performance and a convincing win. Is that asking too much?

[rodders]

What do people make about the idea that Eddie can give the Yanks inside knowledge of how we do things. Personally I don't see he'd be any real help.

Well our lineout for a start as POC, DOC, Flannery/Best all featured heavily under EOS.

He'll know BOD's strength and weaknesses too but I say he'll know all of our players and the way we'll play very well.

[Boyne]

Would it be any use for a fly weight boxer to get inside knowledge on a heavy weight he was about to box?

I dont think so. Its a mismatch and we should win and win easy. All bonus points and no injuries please.

I dont need to see double and triple dummy switches. Just good effective rugby.

[MMC]

What do people make about the idea that Eddie can give the Yanks inside knowledge of how we do things. Personally I don't see he'd be any real help.


Over 1/3 of our probable team were given our debuts under Kidney (O'Brien, Court, Ryan, Murray, Sexton, Earls, Ross) and I'd say he has minimal knowledge of the likes of Bowe, Kearney, Heaslip, Ferris who barely featured for him.

I agree completely. The game has moved on from when he was coaching us. The biggest thing in my opinion is that he has no experience of Les Kiss and Gert Smal. They're the ones that are telling the players what to do. Players, the good ones, tend to be "moldable". They'll play the way they're told to. Yes they will have their strengths and weaknesses but these will inevitably change over time.

[Mickado]

I'll be putting a bet on Bowe first try scorer (if he starts).
I can see us trying the cross feild kick as soon as there's an opportunity to do it.

[Biltong]

I hope we dont. I hope we have enough to win and win verry ugly against the US.

There is no such thing as an ugly win, yes you can get scrappy affairs, you can get muddy bogged down days, but it is all good.

[Boyne]

Jamie Heaslip will get the 1st try. Line out outside the 5 meter line. Taken by POC. 1 st phase JH receives a short ball from Murray.

Mark it.

[red_stag]

Tony Buckley to start at loosehead, get the first try and we'll all forget how bad he is at scrummaging

[MMC]

I reckon the first try will come from Earls (if he starts) receiving a long pass from centre field after a period of sustained pressure in the USA's 22.

This will all come in the first 5 minutes when POC claims the kickoff and goes off on a rumble supported by his pack. After receiving quick ball Heaslip will break the line and set up a ruck in the USA 22. After a minute or two of picking and going the USA defence will be completely stretched which is when Earls will find himself in acres of space on the left hand side to score from a simple run-in. You heard it here first.

[rodders]

Would it be any use for a fly weight boxer to get inside knowledge on a heavy weight he was about to box?

Er I think you'll find that a fly weight and Heavy weight wouldn't be allowed to box...thats why they have weight categories....

[Artful_Dodger]

Obviously you havent seen this rodders....

http://www.break.com/index/600lb-vs-169lb-mma-mismatch-2136235

:p

[Boyne]

Would it be any use for a fly weight boxer to get inside knowledge on a heavy weight he was about to box?

Er I think you'll find that a fly weight and Heavy weight wouldn't be allowed to box...thats why they have weight categories....

You obviously didn't grow up in Drogheda .............

[Boyne]

Obviously you havent seen this rodders....

http://www.break.com/index/600lb-vs-169lb-mma-mismatch-2136235

:p

That was most riveting. Thank you.

[MMC]

Obviously you havent seen this rodders....

http://www.break.com/index/600lb-vs-169lb-mma-mismatch-2136235

:p

Does this mean that we're going to be beaten by the USA?

So can anyone here give any insight as to what we might expect from the USA?
Things like their strengths and weakness, what they're like in the set piece, players to watch etc.

I'm sure we're all familiar with Taku Ngwenya and what he's capable of.

I'm looking forward to seeing how the rookie Murray does up against the more experienced Mike Petri.

Will Todd Clever be able to singlehandedly turn the ruck area into a contest?

What about Paul Emerick? How will he fare against a not quite fit Brian O'Driscoll and whoever his centre partner will be?

[rodders]

Would it be any use for a fly weight boxer to get inside knowledge on a heavy weight he was about to box?

Er I think you'll find that a fly weight and Heavy weight wouldn't be allowed to box...thats why they have weight categories....

You obviously didn't grow up in Drogheda .............

[doctor_grey]

I know the RWC is finally here and we are all juiced up to get it on. But, this isn't the match to sweat - or better put it better not be. The US team has seemed to be going backwards in the matches they have played this season: Poor in the Churchill Cup and poor against Canada. Ireland have more than enugh for a pretty fair win. Coasting towards the 80 minute mark, I'd say Ireland 50+.

[rodders]

Coasting towards the 80 minute mark, I'd say Ireland 50+.

When was the last time we beat anyone by 50 points?

The last RWC showed that the "minnows" are no push over anymore. Aside from Namibia and Romania giving us a torrid time, Fiji beat Wales and England were pushed all the way by the USA and Tonga.

I really can't understand that attitude. We aren't exactly setting the world alight right now and can't afford to take this match lightly or we'll be looking at 2007 all over again.

[MMC]

Ireland...name their team for Sunday’s opener against the USA in the early hours of tomorrow morning.

That answers that then. Sunday can't come soon enough.

[Mickado]

When was the last time we beat anyone by 50 points?

We beat Canada 55-0 in 2008 on Keith Earls debut.

[rodders]

When was the last time we beat anyone by 50 points?

We beat Canada 55-0 in 2008 on Keith Earls debut.

Exactly that was 3 years ago and at home. I think expecting a 50+ points victory is getting ahead of ourselves. We need to get the basics right and get a win, anything else is a bonus.

[MMC]

When was the last time we beat anyone by 50 points?

We beat Canada 55-0 in 2008 on Keith Earls debut.

And his first try was kind of similar to what I described above.

I do think we're capable of putting a big score on the USA. Why shouldn't we be? We have the players. If we're truly aspiring to reach a semi final then we should be winning these games comfortably and with style. We need to be ruthless.

[Boyne]

When was the last time we beat anyone by 50 points?

We beat Canada 55-0 in 2008 on Keith Earls debut.

Exactly that was 3 years ago and at home. I think expecting a 50+ points victory is getting ahead of ourselves. We need to get the basics right and get a win, anything else is a bonus.

Sorry Rodders but a 1 point win for Ireland? Might as well be a loss.

We need a 4 try bonus minimum.

[westisbest]

Gotta watch out for yer man on the wing, not going to attempt to spell his name.

Serious pace.

The try he scored against South Africa, was a great team try, some of the handling was quality.

I've watched that try a fair few times in the last few years, leaving Habana for dead.

[MMC]

Gotta watch out for yer man on the wing, not going to attempt to spell his name.

Serious pace.

The try he scored against South Africa, was a great team try, some of the handling was quality.

I've watched that try a fair few times in the last few years, leaving Habana for dead.

That'd be Ngwenya. Or Nwenga if you're Gerry Thornley.

He's quick alright. He needs posession before he can do anything though and that's where I think USA will struggle on Sunday. He will be dangerous off turnover ball though, so Ireland will need to get their scramble spot on.

[Notch]

So... who plays 12? Hardest position to call imo. Paddy Wallace played the first two warm-ups and was ok. D'Arcy was ok as well I suppose, but neither really made any inroads to defences or created anything. Both seemed under instructions to just shovel the ball along the line without committing the defenders first- or was this just poor play on their part?

Wallace ran more ball than D'Arcy, and D'Arcy passed more which was unusual. Wallace took a fair bit of contact.

[Feagh McHugh]

Darcy is the trickiest of calls for selection for the US game for me, he has been in poor form and is just over a minor injury and Wallace has done well but has questions marks over his physicality.

I think Kidney has to start here with who he thinks will be his first choice come the Oz game, for instance there is no way I could see Darcy starting the OZ game if he doesn't start Sunday, his form has been quiet poor and he is just over an injury so needs game time.
So if Wallace starts I feel Darcy is out, but if Darcy starts its with the view of him playing himself into pole position for the OZ game (but he may indeed play Wallace into the 12 jersey also).

Personally Id go with starting Darcy and if he preforms leave him on for the full game and if not haul him off and get Wallace as much game time as possible.

Cant see Ryan starting in the second row either.

Can see Sob on the Bench and Jennings at 7. Makes sense in to me, SOB covers the 3 BR positions and Jennings lacks game time with Heaslip and Ferris combo should Sob's injury come back. Its not about whether Leamy or Jennings offers more at this stage. (And Leamy is ready).

Id start Earls on the wing and rest Trimble.

Kearney to start, Murphy did well but Kearney is Kidneys first choice and needs game time.

Would love to see Murray start and think he will - He was one of Kidneys biggest calls for the 30 man squad and I expect him to be utilised think he is ahead of Boss in Kidneys reckoning as it stands too.

[MMC]

So... who plays 12? Hardest position to call imo. Paddy Wallace played the first two warm-ups and was ok. D'Arcy was ok as well I suppose, but neither really made any inroads to defences or created anything. Both seemed under instructions to just shovel the ball along the line without committing the defenders first- or was this just poor play on their part?

Wallace ran more ball than D'Arcy, and D'Arcy passed more which was unusual. Wallace took a fair bit of contact.

Based on what we saw in the warm ups I'd rather see Wallace at 12 than D'Arcy. Another option is McFadden - he's cetainly being touted in the media - he's behind Wallace in the pecking order IMO though. Added to the fact that his versatility makes him more likely to be on the bench.

I wonder what the odds of a BOD / Bowe midfield are...I would say slim to none. I would like to see it though. Or at least, I would have liked to see it during the warm ups. But to be fair to Kidney, Bowe was carrying that toe injury and couldn't be risked.

Whoever ends up playing 12, I hope they're told to play a simple and direct game. None of this crabbing sideways that we've been seeing lately.

[MMC]

Well if DK is sticking solely to combinations tried up until and including the warm ups then what about a backline of

Murray
O'Gara
Earls
Sexton
BOD
Bowe
Murphy/Kearney

It'd be a risk but it's certainly a creative backline. I don't think we'll see it of course but behind a pack that's likely to get on the front foot ahead of this USA pack that backline could do some serious damage.

[rodders]

The problem is if we start with D'arcy then I think we have to stick with him for the Australia game. If he's poor again then we are in trouble.

Wallace hasn't played alongside BOD yet and is in need of gametime too. Like D'arcy Wallace performs better when he gets a run of game time.

D'arcy was very poor against England and could be a weak link against Australia so getting the midfield combination right is key.

I think Wallace is more nimble than D'arcy these days and a better defender too but if D'arcy can get anywhere near his best form then he presents more of a strike threat with the ball in hand.

[Notch]

One thing Wallace did well in the warm-ups was kicking from hand, but shouldn't be kicking too much against the USA.

Having Wallace at 12 would give Sexton freedom to run with the ball a bit more, because Wallace can play first receiver on the next phase. I'm not sure why we haven't used Sextons running game recently.

If you're going to use 12 as a strike runner pick D'Arcy.

My problem is none of 10, 12 and 13 have been carrying effectively.

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