Ireland vs USA Discussion Thread

[MMC]

First topic message reminder :

With the team announcements just around the corner I will post the teams here once they've been named. This will help us to keep all the discussion to one thread.

In the meantime, this is the place to be for team news, speculation, score predictions, and just about anything else related to the game that people want to talk about.

Forget August, forget Australia the week after, forget about the future of Ireland after the world cup. Our World Cup starts right here.

COME ON IRELAND!!

Ireland team to face USA:

15 - Geordan Murphy (Leicester Tigers)
14 - Tommy Bowe (Ospreys) *
13 - Brian O'Driscoll (UCD/Leinster) (capt)
12 - Gordon D'Arcy (Lansdowne/Leinster)
11 - Keith Earls (Young Munster/Munster) *
10 - Jonathan Sexton (St. Mary's College/Leinster) *
9 - Conor Murray (Garryowen/Munster) *
1 - Tom Court (Malone/Ulster) *
2 - Rory Best (Banbridge/Ulster)
3 - Mike Ross (Clontarf/Leinster) *
4 - Donncha O'Callaghan (Cork Constitution/Munster)
5 - Paul O'Connell (Young Munster/Munster)
6 - Stephen Ferris (Dungannon/Ulster) *
7 - Shane Jennings (St. Mary's College/Leinster) *
8 - Jamie Heaslip (Naas/Leinster) *

Replacements:

16 - Jerry Flannery (Shannon/Munster)
17 - Tony Buckley (Sale Sharks)*
18 - Donnacha Ryan (Shannon/Munster)*
19 - Denis Leamy (Cork Constitution/Munster)
20 - Eoin Reddan (Lansdowne/Leinster)
21 - Ronan O'Gara (Cork Constitution/Munster)
22 - Andrew Trimble (Ballymena/Ulster)


USA Team: B Scully; T Ngwenya, P Emerick, A Suniula, J Paterson; R Suniula, M Petri; M MacDonald, P Thiel, S Pittman, J van der Giessen, H Smith, L Stanfill, T Clever (capt), N Johnson.

Replacements: C Biller, M Moeakiola, S LaValla, P Danahy, T Usasz, N Malifa, C Hawley.

[Feagh McHugh]

Rodders,
I would start Darcy and review the situation around half time, but I wouldnt have a problem with Wallace starting - he has done well so far where Darcy has been poor.
Even was Darcy's form has dipped in the past his defense is what kept him ahead of Wallace (or McFadden at Leinster) but now he is falling off tackles too.
This is why I reckon the midfield position is our biggest headache, somebody needs to man up here either way on Sunday.

[Rava]

If BOD is fully fit then I would expect him and D'Arcy to start in the centre. If not I would'nt be surprised to see the D'Arcy/Earls partnership get another run.
If there are any doubts about D'Arcy's fitness then I would expect Wallace to partner BOD.

If D'Arcy and BOD are both not fully fit then we're phooked

[rodders]

Sorry to change the subject but just seen a quote from Jerry Flannery in the IT which answers Stags earlier question about what inside info EOS could provide:

"Much also has been made of Eddie O’Sullivan’s insider information on the Irish squad, as Jerry Flannery alluded to yesterday.

In citing O’Sullivan as a very knowledgable coach who gave him his first cap and “technical information” in making him a much better player, Flannery did admit it would give the Eagles an insight that no other opposing coach will have in this tournament.

“Our team has probably progressed a long way, and players have progressed as well since Eddie left in the last four years, but players’ mentalities don’t change too much. I think that’s one of the biggest insights that he’ll be able to give his team, like we had when we played the South Africans before,” said Flannery.

“I remember Gert Smal gave us a good insight into the mentality that they would have going into the match and I suppose it gives you a little bit of a taster of what to expect when you’re going out. I think Eddie will be able to give his lads that kind of information.”"

[beshocked]

The USA guys to watch out for are:

The two Saracens guys, Hayden Smith (2nd row) and Chris Wyles (Full Back).

Todd Clever (flanker), Paul Emerick (centre) and Nwengya (winger).

10 players too short of a good team though.

[Feagh McHugh]

If BOD is fully fit then I would expect him and D'Arcy to start in the centre. If not I would'nt be surprised to see the D'Arcy/Earls partnership get another run.
If there are any doubts about D'Arcy's fitness then I would expect Wallace to partner BOD.

If D'Arcy and BOD are both not fully fit then we're phooked

Think its too close to the Oz game to try anything radical - we need momentum and continuity, the risks of a nightmare in midfield outweigh any positives to be gleaned.
Time for that was the AI's or the 6 nations, Kidney didnt do it so think we should forget about it and move on.

Bod has never played 12 and Earls hasnt shown much at 13 in the warm ups to suggest he should start there with a fit BOD available.

[rodders]

Rodders,
I would start Darcy and review the situation around half time, but I wouldnt have a problem with Wallace starting - he has done well so far where Darcy has been poor.
Even was Darcy's form has dipped in the past his defense is what kept him ahead of Wallace (or McFadden at Leinster) but now he is falling off tackles too.
This is why I reckon the midfield position is our biggest headache, somebody needs to man up here either way on Sunday.

Yeah I mean for a few seasons there I think we were afraid to tinker with the D'arcy and BOD midfield because even when it wasn't firing on all cylindars in attack they were always so solid in defence. However this season we've really seen cracks start to appear and both players have been beaten a few times this season.

I think this forces our hand a wee bit in terms of viewing D'arcy and O'Driscoll as the safe option in midfield.

[Rava]

If BOD is fully fit then I would expect him and D'Arcy to start in the centre. If not I would'nt be surprised to see the D'Arcy/Earls partnership get another run.
If there are any doubts about D'Arcy's fitness then I would expect Wallace to partner BOD.

If D'Arcy and BOD are both not fully fit then we're phooked

Think its too close to the Oz game to try anything radical - we need momentum and continuity, the risks of a nightmare in midfield outweigh any positives to be gleaned.
Time for that was the AI's or the 6 nations, Kidney didnt do it so think we should forget about it and move on.

Bod has never played 12 and Earls hasnt shown much at 13 in the warm ups to suggest he should start there with a fit BOD available.

Reread my post.
1. No suggestion that BOD should play 12.
2. No suggestion that Earls would start at 13 if BOD is fit.

Nothing radical in any of my suggested combinations

[robbo277]

Anyone know what time the squad announcement is?

[Notch]

I keep on deciding over the past year that D'Arcy shades it over Wallace because the Irish gameplan seems to need a ball carrier at 12, but D'Arcy keeps on letting me down. I find it increasingly hard to back his inclusion.

Thing is, I think Wallace is a very good 12 but sort of a specialist player. An auxiliary flyhalf, a playmaker, that we use on the crash ball. A square peg when that we are looking to fit into a round hole. D'Arcy is a round peg who is performing badly, badly enough that I wouldn't necessarily pick him.

So..? Wallace as a stop gap and a new player to start at 12 after the World Cup. I don't think Wallace will let us down. We've failed to develop alternatives to these two and it's a case of making the best of them.

[Feagh McHugh]

If BOD is fully fit then I would expect him and D'Arcy to start in the centre. If not I would'nt be surprised to see the D'Arcy/Earls partnership get another run.
If there are any doubts about D'Arcy's fitness then I would expect Wallace to partner BOD.

If D'Arcy and BOD are both not fully fit then we're phooked

Think its too close to the Oz game to try anything radical - we need momentum and continuity, the risks of a nightmare in midfield outweigh any positives to be gleaned.
Time for that was the AI's or the 6 nations, Kidney didnt do it so think we should forget about it and move on.

Bod has never played 12 and Earls hasnt shown much at 13 in the warm ups to suggest he should start there with a fit BOD available.

Reread my post.
1. No suggestion that BOD should play 12.
2. No suggestion that Earls would start at 13 if BOD is fit.

Nothing radical in any of my suggested combinations

My bad I read that as BOD at 12 not Darcy.

[Rava]

Ah no problem F . How's Carlow these days. I have been to the College a few times during the past couple of years. Involved in the construction work going on there.

[Feagh McHugh]

Yeah not too familiar with the Campus itself but it has been getting bigger the last few years alright. Its a good town for a knees up too.

[rodders]

I keep on deciding over the past year that D'Arcy shades it over Wallace because the Irish gameplan seems to need a ball carrier at 12, but D'Arcy keeps on letting me down. I find it increasingly hard to back his inclusion.

I feel exactly the same Notch. I feel strongly that we need a midfield ball carrier but D'arcy doesn't cut the mustard anymore. He just looks slow and predictable, where once he was nigh on unstoppable, getting over the advantage at will and creating space for the outside backs due to his strike threat and pace.

Wallace is a good player but relies on the players around him to adjust their game and play off him. I think he's too small for the modern game, realistically but at least offers a bit more unpredictability with his quick feet and hands. I don't think Wallace is a mentally strong player though and when his confidence drops he's not the same player, much like D'arcy.

McFadden could yet emerge as bods partner in this WC but he needs to show something quick because he didn't offer anything beyond the two incumbents in the warm ups.

Post WC the cavalry is on the horizon but right now we have to make do with what we have which isn't great.

[clivemcl]

The USA guys to watch out for are:

The two Saracens guys, Hayden Smith (2nd row) and Chris Wyles (Full Back).

Todd Clever (flanker), Paul Emerick (centre) and Nwengya (winger).

10 players too short of a good team though.

Is that the Paul emerick who was at Ulster for 3months but didnt get a start? We really should beat them comfortably! But not too much. I'm too soft. I start to feel sorry for teams once it gets a bit out of hand!

[The Great Aukster]

My problem is none of 10, 12 and 13 have been carrying effectively.

That's because they were:
1. getting back after injury
2. carrying an injury
3. worried about getting an injury

No excuse now...

[Notch]

I keep on deciding over the past year that D'Arcy shades it over Wallace because the Irish gameplan seems to need a ball carrier at 12, but D'Arcy keeps on letting me down. I find it increasingly hard to back his inclusion.

I feel exactly the same Notch. I feel strongly that we need a midfield ball carrier but D'arcy doesn't cut the mustard anymore. He just looks slow and predictable, where once he was nigh on unstoppable, getting over the advantage at will and creating space for the outside backs due to his strike threat and pace.

Wallace is a good player but relies on the players around him to adjust their game and play off him. I think he's too small for the modern game, realistically but at least offers a bit more unpredictability with his quick feet and hands. I don't think Wallace is a mentally strong player though and when his confidence drops he's not the same player, much like D'arcy.

McFadden could yet emerge as bods partner in this WC but he needs to show something quick because he didn't offer anything beyond the two incumbents in the warm ups.

Post WC the cavalry is on the horizon but right now we have to make do with what we have which isn't great.

I still believe a good smaller player can prosper if used in the right way. But really I feel like Wallace is the best of a bad lot. Realistically, we no longer have a good ball-carrying 12 so I don't understand why we don't adjust our tactics to get the best out of who we do have. We used Trimble as our striker in midfield in August which is promising, but predictable. If you see him come off his wing and line-up as first receiver... well thats pretty easy to read eh? Maybe we should start using him as a decoy.

Another thing- if we do take the ball into contact in midfield, we have no one running on the shoulder of the carrier. Those offloading opportunities can be really dangerous. I think Wallace should start this game due to D'Arcys indifferent form and the fact he's coming back from injury but its a hard one to call for all the wrong reasons.

[flankertye]

Isn't the other flanker, not Cleaver meant to be a very good player?

[rodders]

I still believe a good smaller player can prosper if used in the right way.

Off course they can but only if they have the players around them to compensate.

I agree the ploy to use Trimble and latterly Bowe coming off their wings became very predictable. Both were smashed backwards repeadly by the English midfield.

We also seem to be playing this offloading game were we're just passing the ball around but no one is running straight or cutting lines so we're not getting over the advantage line. If that is our game plan the we are screwed .

The problem is our pack though. O'Brien and to a lesser extent Ferris seem to be the only players who can take the ball into contact effectively and not get smashed backwards. Hopefully Heaslip will find his mojo and start marauding out wide like he did in the Autumn to great effect.

[Sin é]

If BOD is fully fit then I would expect him and D'Arcy to start in the centre. If not I would'nt be surprised to see the D'Arcy/Earls partnership get another run.
If there are any doubts about D'Arcy's fitness then I would expect Wallace to partner BOD.

If D'Arcy and BOD are both not fully fit then we're phooked

Think its too close to the Oz game to try anything radical - we need momentum and continuity, the risks of a nightmare in midfield outweigh any positives to be gleaned.
Time for that was the AI's or the 6 nations, Kidney didnt do it so think we should forget about it and move on.

Bod has never played 12 and Earls hasnt shown much at 13 in the warm ups to suggest he should start there with a fit BOD available.

There is a couple of reasons why the Ireland midfield wasn't tinkered with too much up to the warmups

1) bedding Sexton in - easier with BOD & D'Arcy.
2) captaincy - POC was out injured so no able deputy.

BOD & Earls have played together in the centre against wales - and it was a terrific combination - Earls scored 2 goals.
According to someone on leinsterfans claiming to be in the know the team is:

Murphy, Bowe, BOD, D'Arcy, Earls, Sexton, Murray
Court, Best, Ross, DOC, POC, Ferris, Jennings, Heaslip

Fla, Buckley, Ryan, Leamy, Reddan, Rog, Trimble

No surprises there except maybe Murray starting.

[MMC]

Murphy, Bowe, BOD, D'Arcy, Earls, Sexton, Murray
Court, Best, Ross, DOC, POC, Ferris, Jennings, Heaslip

Fla, Buckley, Ryan, Leamy, Reddan, Rog, Trimble

No surprises there except maybe Murray starting.

I'd be pleased with that team. Apart from Healy and O'Brien that pack is probably our strongest and should be more than capable of beating the USA pack.

Having Murphy at fullback could be the catalyst that the team needs in attack. You could argue that our first choice pairing of D'Arcy and BOD need gametime before the Australia game so that would be fair enough.

Murray to start seems to be the worst kept secret in Irish rugby at the moment. I hope he has a solid game if he does get the opportunity.

[rodders]

Sin the midfield was tinkered about in the warm-ups, we played 4 different combinations in 4 tests.

Not sure why Sexton would needed bedded in at the age of 26 and in his 3rd international season?

If thats the team then it looks good although I'd have thought Kearney could use the gametime if he's fit.

[Boyne]

According to someone on leinsterfans claiming to be in the know the team is:

What in the name of the good Lord were you doing on Leinsterfans!!!!

[Boyne]

Not sure why Sexton would needed bedded in at the age of 26 and in his 3rd international season?

Because of DK's insistence on pulling him off and rotating no 10's so often?

[rodders]

According to someone on leinsterfans claiming to be in the know the team is:

What in the name of the good Lord were you doing on Leinsterfans!!!!

you've been nabbed sin, it seems you've been living in D4 too long!

[Sin é]

According to someone on leinsterfans claiming to be in the know the team is:

What in the name of the good Lord were you doing on Leinsterfans!!!!

Finding out if anyone knew about the team selection

[Sin é]

Sin the midfield was tinkered about in the warm-ups, we played 4 different combinations in 4 tests.

Not sure why Sexton would needed bedded in at the age of 26 and in his 3rd international season?

If thats the team then it looks good although I'd have thought Kearney could use the gametime if he's fit.

Sexton still only has 19 caps. Toby Flood has about double that (a lot as a centre. Pity Sexton couldn't play at centre to get used to international rugby).

And before Boyne starts bitching that he should have been starting every game - Ireland couldn't afford to lose every game.

[rodders]

And before Boyne starts bitching that he should have been starting every game - Ireland couldn't afford to lose every game.

Now Sin be nice

Besides it may have escaped your attention but Ireland do lose every game....

[Boyne]

Sin the midfield was tinkered about in the warm-ups, we played 4 different combinations in 4 tests.

Not sure why Sexton would needed bedded in at the age of 26 and in his 3rd international season?

If thats the team then it looks good although I'd have thought Kearney could use the gametime if he's fit.

Sexton still only has 19 caps. Toby Flood has about double that (a lot as a centre. Pity Sexton couldn't play at centre to get used to international rugby).

And before Boyne starts bitching that he should have been starting every game - Ireland couldn't afford to lose every game.

No comment

[rodders]

it's gotten a bit chilly in here all of a sudden....anyways who's looking forward to sunday !

[Mickado]

As Rory Gallagher once sang “all my days are edged in blue”…

Once the All Ireland final is over then I can concentrate on the rugby, but I can hardly think of anything else in the meantime!

[BlueMuff]

Sin the midfield was tinkered about in the warm-ups, we played 4 different combinations in 4 tests.

Not sure why Sexton would needed bedded in at the age of 26 and in his 3rd international season?

If thats the team then it looks good although I'd have thought Kearney could use the gametime if he's fit.

Sexton still only has 19 caps. Toby Flood has about double that (a lot as a centre. Pity Sexton couldn't play at centre to get used to international rugby).

And before Boyne starts bitching that he should have been starting every game - Ireland couldn't afford to lose every game.

Mick the Gooch is gonna get you....

[Sin é]

And before Boyne starts bitching that he should have been starting every game - Ireland couldn't afford to lose every game.

Now Sin be nice

Besides it may have escaped your attention but Ireland do lose every game....

we were doing fine until Sexton came on the scene - unbeaten in 2009

[Sin é]

As Rory Gallagher once sang “all my days are edged in blue”…

Once the All Ireland final is over then I can concentrate on the rugby, but I can hardly think of anything else in the meantime!

Can't wait myself. Always enjoy when the Dubs get all excited and then the inevitable happens!

[clivemcl]

Not sure why Sexton would needed bedded in at the age of 26 and in his 3rd international season?

Because of DK's insistence on pulling him off and rotating no 10's so often?

I've no idea how this got allowed to pass without someone highlighting it!

[Mickado]

Any team would be excited by the final. Maybe the gooch will get me/us? Or maybe the inevitable will happen, but it’s still pretty much the only thing I can think about!!

[rodders]

Threadjack alert!!!!

[Mickado]

we were doing fine until Sexton came on the scene - unbeaten in 2009

Didn’t we win all the games Sexton started but draw one of the ones that ROG started in 09?

[Mickado]

Threadjack alert!!!!

Sorry about that!

[Sin é]

we were doing fine until Sexton came on the scene - unbeaten in 2009

Didn’t we win all the games Sexton started but draw one of the ones that ROG started in 09?

Yep, Sexton got 2/10. ROG got 7.5/10.

[Mickado]

Or you could say Sexton won 100% of the games he started in, ROG won 87.5% of the games he started in.
Actually, forget it, there’s no way YOU could say that.

[Sin é]

Threadjack alert!!!!

Make allowances for poor Mickado - I think this is probably the 2nd only time in Micado's lifetime that the Dubs have been anywhere near shouting distace of an All Ireland and the time he was probably too young to remember

[rodders]

Threadjack alert!!!!

Sorry about that!

Only joking, don't mind me you go on chatting about your bouncy ball game...lets face it it's probably just as relevent as debating Sexton and Rog's win/loss ratio from 2009

[Rava]

Or as exciting

[Mickado]

Well this thread had died on it’s arrse.

How many yanks do you think will be watching this game given that it’s on at 2am on the east coast and 11pm on the west coast?

I’d say 11.

[Feckless Rogue]

Says here NBC are showing it. Delayed broadcast because of the time difference.

Link

[rodders]

Well this thread had died on it’s arrse.

How many yanks do you think will be watching this game given that it’s on at 2am on the east coast and 11pm on the west coast?

I’d say 11.

OK I'm confused. Surely it's on in the afternoon on sunday in the states as they are 5-7 hrs behind us?

[greybeard]

We should be sending the dirt trackers and those who need game time out for this. DOC and POC have already played a fair bit, as have Ross, Best etc.

If we send out a fairly front line team we're already in danger of repeating 2007 where we played the same team game after game and knackered them before the knock-out stages.... not that we actually made it to the knock-out stages.

Stick Ryan, Cullen, Cronin, Buckley, McFadden, Murphy etc in there.

[red_stag]

I don't think so Greybeard. I'd like to see us hit the ground running and take that into the Australia match. Then win, lose or draw - the dirt trackers play against Russia and we decide from there how to go against Italy and beyond

[rodders]

I don't agree Greybeard. We need to find some form and momentum going into the Australia game so we need to put out a strong side.

Depending on how the next two games go, we can rotate a few big players against Russia before the crunch game with Italy but we need a strong start here.

[greybeard]

We had 5 games didn't we? No form and no momentum... but we were holding back (allegedly.)

Isn't that just rubbish management then? Not getting the right momentum from the warm ups means we now have to start with our strongest team when they could have been taking things easy getting ready for Oz.

Load the bench with quality by all means and get them 20 mintes, but we shouldn't have to start with anything more than an average Ireland side.

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