What is the best natural asset a Boxer can have??

First topic message reminder :

Speed - If you're quicker chances are you'll get off first....

Power - You'll only need to land once as opposed to maybe a speedster who has to wear his opponent down! Always in any fight.

Durability - Sure without the other two you are limited but people lose speed the longer the fight gets and power punchers get arm weary leaving you there maybe to take over in the later rounds..

A very adaptable fighter was Joe, did things off his own back rather than follow advice from his dad/trainer.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:So every boxer with the right trainer can become great............ok

If that's what you're reading from my comments it's your failure not mine.

Why do we talk about experience being important then?

Why do boxers pay a lot for good trainers who have been there and done it?

chin of steel, then one punch ko power and then speed

Naturally talented is a phrase you might have heard of!!!

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Naturally talented is a phrase you might have heard of!!!

Yeah but I've never heard of natural talent in experience.

Again I will mention Benitez as an example of a fighter with a natyral boxing brain. The man beat Caventes for the title at 17 years of age without having the great experience that you say is needed over time to obtain a boxing brain.

One boxer from how many? How often in comparison have you heard that someone isn't ready?

There will always be guys born with supreme gifts, remember Brendan Ingle first saw Naz as a scrawny kid evading school bullies with not a days formal training looking like he was a experienced fighter, Benitez is probably similar, that should not diminish the abilities of training and experience to polish these gifts or instill them in those that don't have them naturally

Experience is an added bonus....people either learn from it or they don't..

Look at Herol Graham..Kirkland Laing..

Experience per se means sack all...

rowley wrote:There will always be guys born with supreme gifts, remember Brendan Ingle first saw Naz as a scrawny kid evading school bullies with not a days formal training looking like he was a experienced fighter, Benitez is probably similar, that should not diminish the abilities of training and experience to polish these gifts or instill them in those that don't have them naturally

I believe that you can have a natural boxing brain that of course, like every talent can be bettered. Some fighters can deal with the confines of a ring far better then others. Joe erskine broke his hand and completely changed the way he boxed to favour skill rather then power. As a result he out boxed many fighters and even Angelo Dundee talks of him as 1 of the greatest fighters he ever saw. His story is a prime example of a boxing brain a natural boxing brain as his brain was able to adapt to his disadvantage and form a new style of boxing.

Scottrf wrote:

coxy0001 wrote:No-one could teach me how to manage my way round a golf course, when to back off, take shots on. More importantly no-one could have ever taught me how to control emotions, how to block everything else out, how not to bottle it, how to cope with adversity.

I'd think they are a lot of people making a living doing just that that would disagree.

You think pro golfers pay caddies all that money to carry their clubs?

/No they get paid to do yardages and basically ensure that they're on hand with anything the pro wants i.e. water, food, waterproofs.

As the old saying goes "caddies earn their money when it's pi$$ing down with rain"

Trust me, they don't do much else. Could probably add a bit of banter/random chat in there but that's about it. They're certainly not meddling with the mind.

Take it you've never had a caddie/caddied for anyone at any sort of level then?

Even if I hadn't I watch golf and you can hear them doing more than give them a bottle of water. Why pay someone hundreds of thousands for that?

That get paid because they know the courses and have experience in different situations.

I'm not interested about your personal experience, I watch professional sports.

Scottrf wrote:Even if I hadn't I watch golf and you can hear them doing more than give them a bottle of water. Why pay someone hundreds of thousands for that?

That get paid because they know the courses and have experience in different situations.

I'm not interested about your personal experience, I watch professional sports.

They get paid "hundreds of thousands" because the pro's have to pay them a set amount of their tournament prize money per event (usually 7.5% from memory) and a win percentage if they win (usually 10%).

That isn't negotiated.

You may watch professional sport i.e. golf, but certainly don't know the workings of it.

OK you understand it better, they just carry their waterproofs...

You can't ever have seen Mickleson's long discussions with his caddy and it's not 'banter'.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:What is the best natural asset a Boxer can have??

A smart piece on his arm

Scottrf wrote:OK you understand it better, they just carry their waterproofs...

You can't ever have seen Mickleson's long discussions with his caddy and it's not 'banter'.

Mickleson is usually going to be asking the following on approach.

What is it to carry the bunker. What is the yardage to the ridge behind the pin. How much room do i have short right on that shelf. What is my max yardage before falling off the back. etc etc etc etc

Why does he ask that? Because it's the caddies job to walk every yard of every hole and to laser measure every ridge on every green, to perform slope tests on every green. So when the player asks what yardage it is over the ridge short of the hole the caddy has the answer.

Ah ok, so all the things that come naturally like knowing the exact layout of every course

You just buried yourself.

POWER or STAMINA

Iv fought around 20 times (14 amateur fights and now a few unlicensed) and in my experience these are the 2 most important things in boxing.
id edge towards stamina because iv seen so many fighters get slapped around and completley outclassed for 1 or 2 rounds only for the other guy to then have nothing left in the tank and get beaten late.
Iv found a lot on the unlicenced circuit that whoever can fight hardest for longest usually wins.

Power is another though, im fortunate in the fact that i have always been quite heavy handed, especially when throwing hooks (i box at around 17st so have a fair bit of weight to put behind it) and iv been outboxed / outsped for large parts of a fight on a few occasions but been able to land a few heavy shots and end it.

Scottrf wrote:Ah ok, so all the things that come naturally like knowing the exact layout of every course

You just buried yourself.

Knowing the exact layout of every course?

You're a bit of a wally sunshine.

Take away a yardage book from a caddy and they'll be up the creek. You can't come back with anything sunshine as you've never caddied and never had a caddy at any sort of level. When i've caddied for my mate at final Open qualifying i would walk the course for 2 nights on the bounce following on from practice and would get every single yardage i could.

If you then took that yardage book with all my notes away from i'd have been up the absolute creek.

You don't "know" the exact layout, you know the exact yardage because you used a laser yardage device during the practice days and made notes of no go areas, fall off areas off greens, false fronts, greens that would fall away and all the relevant yardages that the player will ask for when deciding what club to use to avoid such problems on approach.

Have probably played/caddied 400 different courses in my life, about 80 of those more than 5 times. Can i remember every single hole? Nope, i can't. Not by a long way. Certain holes stand out, but without a yardage chart i couldn't say what to hit to clear the front bunker at Troons 8th.

What part of that is natural talent?

You wont admit that you're wrong so I'm done with it.

Can't you two just kiss and make up. Or at least take this to the golf section

I hate it when people post off topic.

Tito

What is the best natural asset a Boxer can have??
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A really big older brother!!!!!!!!!!!!

What part of that is natural talent?

You wont admit that you're wrong so I'm done with it.

Please read my original post

You're the one blabbering on about something completely different

And moving on.

DAVE667 wrote:What is the best natural asset a Boxer can have??
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A really big older brother!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks for bringing this back on topic David.

I have a really big older brother. He must be up to 22st now. Neither of us are boxers though.

Tino, as it was one of TRUSS's many efforts today, I have to confess I didn't bother reading the vast majority of answers as I knew that along the way someone would get upset and just start being silly.

Re this golfing gubbins, I'd suggest getting Tiger Woods Golf for the Wii console. It tells you everything you need to know...and you can dress as a giant rabbit!

Golf spoils a good walk.

In terms of the article, I'd have to go with some of the earlier suggestions that heart (and chin) are the best natural asset. Definitely something that cannot be taught.

Fists of Fury wrote:Golf spoils a good walk.

Golf is a fantastic sport for all size and ages. Quite often 4 generations of me and my family all play together. Im playing tommorow night (with a mate though)

Most people who say golf spoils a good walk are couch potatos who wouldnt even knOw what a walk is anyway

Steffan wrote:

Fists of Fury wrote:Golf spoils a good walk.

Golf is a fantastic sport for all size and ages. Quite often 4 generations of me and my family all play together. Im playing tommorow night (with a mate though)

Most people who say golf spoils a good walk are couch potatos who wouldnt even knOw what a walk is anyway

Are they the same type of people who have kids because they "have nothing better to do with their lives".

Sometimes Steffan you can be mildly amusing. Other times, you are a d!ck of monstrous proportions.

Mind the windows Tino. wrote:

Steffan wrote:

Fists of Fury wrote:Golf spoils a good walk.

Golf is a fantastic sport for all size and ages. Quite often 4 generations of me and my family all play together. Im playing tommorow night (with a mate though)

Most people who say golf spoils a good walk are couch potatos who wouldnt even knOw what a walk is anyway

Are they the same type of people who have kids because they "have nothing better to do with their lives".

It was a tongue in cheek joke my friend

Most people have kids to claim benefits and watch Jeremy Kyle all day

Steffan wrote:

Mind the windows Tino. wrote:

Steffan wrote:

Fists of Fury wrote:Golf spoils a good walk.

Golf is a fantastic sport for all size and ages. Quite often 4 generations of me and my family all play together. Im playing tommorow night (with a mate though)

Most people who say golf spoils a good walk are couch potatos who wouldnt even knOw what a walk is anyway

Are they the same type of people who have kids because they "have nothing better to do with their lives".

It was a tongue in cheek joke my friend

Not much of that sentence is correct.

Caddies do have a greater input Coxy.....shoot a fade, which kind of wedge would be better.....etc..

Stamina seems to have got the nod..surprises me..

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Caddies do have a greater input Coxy.....shoot a fade, which kind of wedge would be better.....etc..

Stamina seems to have got the nod..surprises me..

Input maybe. You're not telling me that Fanny made Faldo world number 1 though?

Michaels, Sean wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Caddies do have a greater input Coxy.....shoot a fade, which kind of wedge would be better.....etc..

Stamina seems to have got the nod..surprises me..

Input maybe. You're not telling me that Fanny made Faldo world number 1 though?

Probably not but it worked for Tiger Woods

classic line..

rowley wrote:

Michaels, Sean wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Caddies do have a greater input Coxy.....shoot a fade, which kind of wedge would be better.....etc..

Stamina seems to have got the nod..surprises me..

Input maybe. You're not telling me that Fanny made Faldo world number 1 though?

Probably not but it worked for Tiger Woods

Do I get an assist there Jeff?

Too right Sean, like Torres last night mate put it on a plate for me

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Caddies do have a greater input Coxy.....shoot a fade, which kind of wedge would be better.....etc..

Stamina seems to have got the nod..surprises me..

Oh dear.

The caddy will know they're inbetween clubs but the player will make the decision. A caddy NEVER tells the player what to do, this is because if the player has already thought "i'm gonna hit a hard 7" and the caddy says "hit a hold up shot with a 6" then it sows seeds of doubts into the players mind.

If a caddy ever said that to me i'd probably march him off the course. I might ask what the carry is short/long and help that make my mind up whether i'd rather be a bit short or a bit long.. but that'd be about it.

The player doesn't always make the decision...Caddie's are on a percentage of winnings as well as set fee!!!

They can often talk aggressive players out of a stupid shot...

You are selling caddie's short mate.

Surely the best natural asset you can have is just being a giant. Ask Valuev, Wlad or Vitalli.

It can turn mediocre fighters into champions like no other asset. Sure power will help you knock a few guys out but you can be outboxed, stamina is ok, but the application of your boundless energy is what's going to make you a winner. If your 8ft and you train once a week your odds on domestic/continental champion.

Depends on the quality around I guess Mate.

DAVE667 wrote:What is the best natural asset a Boxer can have??
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A really big older brother!!!!!!!!!!!!

Quote of the day?

I was edging to say what ever natural asset Manny Pacquaio has, until I realised it was created in a lab...

TechInept wrote:Surely the best natural asset you can have is just being a giant. Ask Valuev, Wlad or Vitalli.

It can turn mediocre fighters into champions like no other asset. Sure power will help you knock a few guys out but you can be outboxed, stamina is ok, but the application of your boundless energy is what's going to make you a winner. If your 8ft and you train once a week your odds on domestic/continental champion.

Yeah look at Tyson Fury.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:The player doesn't always make the decision...Caddie's are on a percentage of winnings as well as set fee!!!

They can often talk aggressive players out of a stupid shot...

You are selling caddie's short mate.

But coxy has caddied for his brother so we should forget what the professionals and commentators think about them, he's to go to expert on the subject!

Is 'being Filipino' a natural asset..?

Can't be much good if your own brother would rather use you as a caddie...rather than play you..

Bet Coxy was always moaning while he was doing it..

BALTIMORA wrote:Is 'being Filipino' a natural asset..?

Yes, but the gear he's on certainly isn't.

What do you get when you cross a filipino and an eskimo????

Manilla ice...............

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:What do you get when you cross a filipino and an eskimo????

Manilla ice...............

I actually laughed at this

coxy0001 wrote:

Scottrf wrote:A boxing brain isn’t natural. It’s developed through the teaching of technique, experience etc.

No

I'm comparing it to my own personal experiences.

No-one could teach me how to manage my way round a golf course, when to back off, take shots on. More importantly no-one could have ever taught me how to control emotions, how to block everything else out, how not to bottle it, how to cope with adversity.

The same applies here, you're either mentally strong and intelligent or you're not, you don't get taught it. You can do things 100,000 times over but when push comes to shove it's all dependant on your mental strength and how you handle things from above the neck line rather than below.

Ignoring the "I've caddied more than you" arguments, I would disagree with this.

You say that no-one could teach you course management. Debatable. Regardless, even if no one taught you that, it's something you learned from playing. You didn't step on to a par 5 and decide you'd better lay up because playing aggressive might mean hitting the ridge at the back of the green and going over. That goes against the argument that it's innate ability.

In any sport, some people just instinctively know what to do. But some people can learn what to do. Equally, some guys could have all the experience and the best trainers and still not learn what to do.

As for mentality, this is where the caddy argument works. Of course caddies help with this aspect. Look at McIlroy's blowout in the PGA. How many people were saying his caddy should have played a better role in calming him down?

I'd argue that natural ability is a great asset, but won't mean anything if you're slow, weak and chinny. On the other hand, if you have speed, and speed alone, you could still win a fight on points.