Euan Murray wants Sunday matches banned

by Artful_Dodger Thu 22 Sep 2011, 12:17 pm

First topic message reminder :

My two cents on this is that the guy is an absolute clown - he wants international rugby to ban Sunday matches because he cant play on Sundays due to his faith - unbelievable.

"I don't see why there have to be games on Sundays," said Murray. "I hope things will change in future."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/15016776.stm

by MBTGOG Thu 22 Sep 2011, 3:59 pm

HammerofThunor wrote:
Submachine wrote:Saw this at a funeral
Here lies an atheist, all dressed up and nowhere to go

At least they were honest.

I think what Mercurio is this

http://www.evilbible.com/

Either Murray believes this sort of stuff is right (which would make him a reasonable unpleasant person in my book) or he picks and chooses and is a hypocrite.

Regarding the Sunday thing,I'm reasonable sure,but not certain that you should devote a day a week to rest. It doesn't have to be a Sunday,that was just picked as an arbitrary day for collective worship. He choose to set aside Mondays and take no part in games or training on that day. That would fit better with a rugby career and be acceptable for Christianity.

Very true. As long as one day is set apart for worship, then that is fine, it doesn't have to be a Sunday. It can be a case of LEGALISM

by Mercurio Thu 22 Sep 2011, 4:03 pm

Rory_Gallagher wrote:
Submachine wrote:Saw this at a funeral
Here lies an atheist, all dressed up and nowhere to go

But seriously, Mercurio, you're arrogance that someone who doesn't share your beliefs or lack of it is a clown/idiot/whatever, is astounding.

Astounding? That's very OTT and inappropriate.

Astounding would be more appropriate to describe an incidence of someone who doesn't believe in evolution or that the earth is only 6,000 years old.

by Submachine Thu 22 Sep 2011, 4:03 pm

And finally..

A religious man is on top of a roof during a great flood. A man comes by in a boat and says "get in, get in!" The religous man replies, " no I have faith in God, he will grant me a miracle."

The water is now up to his waist and another boat comes by and the guy tells him to get in again. He responds that he has faith in god and god will give him a miracle.

The waters about chest high, another boat comes to rescue him, but he turns down the offer again cause "God will grant him a miracle."

With the water up to his chin, a helicopter throws down a ladder and they tell him to get in, mumbling with the water in his mouth, he again turns down the offer of help for the faith of God.

Surprisingly he arrives at the gates of heaven. With broken faith he says to Peter, "Why did God let me down, "I thought God would grand me a miracle?"

St. Peter stands thers shaking his head and goes " For feic sake, we sent you three boats and a helicopter."

by Rory_Gallagher Thu 22 Sep 2011, 4:03 pm

Look, I seriously don't want to argue on a rugby forum about this stuff but if you want my views on any of this you can PM me or something. I don't think the other members of the forum really want to see this stuff. I think it is naive and unfair to think someone is a hypocrite for believing the bible, but as I said, pm me if you want to know why I think that.

Otherwise I'm out of this one thumbsup

Peace guys!

by **Notch** Thu 22 Sep 2011, 4:04 pm

debaters1 wrote:Yep, have to agree with the sentiment here. Faith is a personal thing, not a societal thing. Example, the Irish poster will get this one more but Good Friday and the ban on the sale of alcohol.

A) this is a Republic, not a theorcracy so a law informed by religious observance is lacking legitimacy, imho.

B) if you cant readily obtain the substance, then it i not a sacrifice to gove it up. Butcher shops are still open on Good Friday, VOLUNTARILY not doing something is what makes it a sacrifice. I mean if i go to Antarctica and 'give up' Facebook, im not really giving it up as i cannot do it. In my own home with fucntioning broadband however, that is a sacrifice.

C) Society's problem with alcohol is not in anyway altered or addressed by a 24hr ban, esp when the day before is the busiest day for Off-Licences.

So Euan calling for nothing to happen on a Sunday is not a display of his fauith but rather an attempt to impose his inactivity on Sundays upon us all; which is also undermines his own sacrifice for God. But then again, logic has no place in religious practice.

Yeah, 100% agree. It's completely backwards to try and force your religion on everyone. He's made a personal decision not to play on Sundays and that should be respected. He does not have the right to force his beliefs on everyone else. That is totally unreasonable and unfair. Unfortunately, this is not a new phenomena in rugby.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/3387255.stm

Unbelievably Ulster Rugby faced protests from religous groups in 2004 when they staged their first ever home game on a Sunday at the behest of the ERC and Sky Television. Sunday games had been avoided to avoid controversy until then. The people protesting were the usual bible-thumping fundamentalists and they have been proven to be nothing more than a vocal minority.

If there is a God, it would seem he was smiling on the Ulstermen despite the timing of the game as Ulster ran out 33-0 winners over Toulouse! It's fair to say the game represented both a triumph over the visiting side and a small but significant victory over religious repression in our daily lives Smile

by **rodders** Thu 22 Sep 2011, 4:06 pm

greybeard wrote:I believe people who believe in a flat earth are clowns, I don't care if they get insulted by that.

To be fair most clowns I've come across are fully aware that the earth is spherical so I don't get your point.

by MBTGOG Thu 22 Sep 2011, 4:07 pm

Mercurio wrote:
Rory_Gallagher wrote:
Submachine wrote:Saw this at a funeral
Here lies an atheist, all dressed up and nowhere to go

But seriously, Mercurio, you're arrogance that someone who doesn't share your beliefs or lack of it is a clown/idiot/whatever, is astounding.
Astounding? That's very OTT and inappropriate.

Astounding would be more appropriate to describe an incidence of someone who doesn't believe in evolution or that the earth is only 6,000 years old.

Mercurio,

These are obviously grudges you hold outside of rugby and are not related directly to the topic at hand. Please stick to that or create another topic in the General Discussion area at the bottom of the main page.

by greybeard Thu 22 Sep 2011, 4:08 pm

Notch wrote:It's completely backwards to try and force your religion on everyone.

Except your own children.

by greybeard Thu 22 Sep 2011, 4:09 pm

roddersm wrote:
greybeard wrote:I believe people who believe in a flat earth are clowns, I don't care if they get insulted by that.

To be fair most clowns I've come across are fully aware that the earth is spherical so I don't get your point.

Cheeky monkey Laugh

by Mercurio Thu 22 Sep 2011, 4:12 pm

MBTGOG wrote:
Mercurio wrote:
Rory_Gallagher wrote:
Submachine wrote:Saw this at a funeral
Here lies an atheist, all dressed up and nowhere to go

But seriously, Mercurio, you're arrogance that someone who doesn't share your beliefs or lack of it is a clown/idiot/whatever, is astounding.
Astounding? That's very OTT and inappropriate.

Astounding would be more appropriate to describe an incidence of someone who doesn't believe in evolution or that the earth is only 6,000 years old.

Mercurio,

These are obviously grudges you hold outside of rugby and are not related directly to the topic at hand. Please stick to that or create another topic in the General Discussion area at the bottom of the main page.

I don't see how on this spherical earth my comments have not related to the topic of this thread.

by greybeard Thu 22 Sep 2011, 4:20 pm

Mercurio wrote:I don't see how on this spherical earth my comments have not related to the topic of this thread.

Oblate spheroid!

by **Notch** Thu 22 Sep 2011, 4:20 pm

greybeard wrote:
Notch wrote:It's completely backwards to try and force your religion on everyone.

Except your own children.

I believe there's a significant difference between that and forcing wider society to observe your moral code. I was raised in a Christian, church-going family and I decided I didn't want to be a Christian when I was 16. My parents accepted that and still do. I've since become an Atheist.

And Munsty, I have to agree that Mercurios comments are on topic. What it is is he's use of language has been provocative.

by MBTGOG Thu 22 Sep 2011, 4:21 pm

Mercurio wrote:
MBTGOG wrote:
Mercurio wrote:
Rory_Gallagher wrote:
Submachine wrote:Saw this at a funeral
Here lies an atheist, all dressed up and nowhere to go

But seriously, Mercurio, you're arrogance that someone who doesn't share your beliefs or lack of it is a clown/idiot/whatever, is astounding.
Astounding? That's very OTT and inappropriate.

Astounding would be more appropriate to describe an incidence of someone who doesn't believe in evolution or that the earth is only 6,000 years old.

Mercurio,

These are obviously grudges you hold outside of rugby and are not related directly to the topic at hand. Please stick to that or create another topic in the General Discussion area at the bottom of the main page.

I don't see how on this spherical earth my comments have not related to the topic of this thread.

Because you are not discussing playing rugby on Sundays which is what this thread is about.

by **rodders** Thu 22 Sep 2011, 4:22 pm

greybeard wrote:
roddersm wrote:
greybeard wrote:I believe people who believe in a flat earth are clowns, I don't care if they get insulted by that.

To be fair most clowns I've come across are fully aware that the earth is spherical so I don't get your point.

Cheeky monkey

Jeebus now you are trying to force your views on evolution on us! Laugh

by MBTGOG Thu 22 Sep 2011, 4:23 pm

Notch wrote:
greybeard wrote:
Notch wrote:It's completely backwards to try and force your religion on everyone.

Except your own children.

I believe there's a significant difference between that and forcing wider society to observe your moral code. I was raised in a Christian, church-going family and I decided I didn't want to be a Christian when I was 16. My parents accepted that and still do. I've since become an Atheist.

And Munsty, I have to agree that Mercurios comments are on topic. What it is is he's use of language has been provocative.

Notch,

I don't wish to get into this debate. All I'll say is that Murray won't play on Sundays and said that he'd like games not to be played then either. Mercurio has decided to debate the merits of his whole religion.

by **Notch** Thu 22 Sep 2011, 4:26 pm

I think that when you start discussing one thing it naturally leads to the other. But I take your point.

by **rodders** Thu 22 Sep 2011, 4:26 pm

Stand your ground Munsty, I'm with you on this one!

There's some valid points but they are off topic.

by Guest Thu 22 Sep 2011, 4:29 pm

To add to what Munsty has already said; this is a thread about discussing whether or not rugby should be played on a Sunday, something which has been raised by Euan Murray's beliefs. If you want to discuss the merit of religion etc, please keep that off this rugby forum and take it to the general discussion section of this forum. Thanks.

by BATH_BTGOG Thu 22 Sep 2011, 4:33 pm

Isn't the Final on a Sunday?

by greybeard Thu 22 Sep 2011, 4:34 pm

Hard to discuss whether rugby should be played on a Sunday when the argument against it is religious in nature, though, dreamer.

If Murray looks forward to the day when/if rugby is no longer played on Sundays he is guilty of wishing to see his religious beliefs imposed on the rest of the rugby playing world.

by red_stag Thu 22 Sep 2011, 4:35 pm

Final - Sunday

Semi Final 2 - Sunday

Quarter Final 4 - Sunday

Quarter Final 3 - Sunday

Scotland better hope they are on right side of the draw Euan Murray wants Sunday matches banned - Page 3 732107

Euan Murray wants Sunday matches banned - Page 3 732107

by **rodders** Thu 22 Sep 2011, 4:37 pm

BATH_BTGOG wrote:Isn't the Final on a Sunday?

I don't think Murray needs to worry about that, it's only playing rugby he has an issue with, not watching it....besides he hates Ireland Run

by Davie Thu 22 Sep 2011, 4:38 pm

Is that Sunday in New Zealand or Sunday in Scotland? Whistle

by Knowsit17 Thu 22 Sep 2011, 4:38 pm

Dreadfully selfish and subjective thinking from Murray. While I can appreciate his pain of having to choose between a belief and a passion, rugby or any sport for that matter should never be religion-oriented and I trust this request won't even be considered by the IRB.

by red_stag Thu 22 Sep 2011, 4:38 pm

Same thing Davie. It'll be Sunday morning in Scotland. Sunday night in NZ.

by Guest Thu 22 Sep 2011, 4:39 pm

Greybeard, I take your point, and posters have already been making good point with regards to both rugby and religion. But a lot of posts are going off on tangents now that are solely discussing religion itself and nothing to do with rugby.

I agree with you btw, I respect Murray for his stance but can't see why he would with to impose his beliefs on others. He is welcome to his opinions though as are we all Smile

by greybeard Thu 22 Sep 2011, 4:39 pm

Davie wrote:Is that Sunday in New Zealand or Sunday in Scotland?

If the world is flat it's the same thing.

by greybeard Thu 22 Sep 2011, 4:40 pm

rugbydreamer wrote:He is welcome to his opinions though as are we all

As long as they're on topic Wink

by **rodders** Thu 22 Sep 2011, 4:42 pm

Davie wrote:Is that Sunday in New Zealand or Sunday in Scotland?

Well I'll be damned! Whoever wrote the bible obviously didn't think that one through!

Surely as presbyterian he's got to be abiding by GMT?

by Guest Thu 22 Sep 2011, 4:47 pm

greybeard wrote:
rugbydreamer wrote:He is welcome to his opinions though as are we all

As long as they're on topic

Exactly

by Luckless Pedestrian Thu 22 Sep 2011, 4:50 pm

rugbydreamer wrote:I respect Murray for his stance but can't see why he would with to impose his beliefs on others. He is welcome to his opinions though as are we all

But he doesn't want to impose his beliefs on others. Euan Murray's said that he hopes that, in future, games won't played on a Sunday. He must know it's unlikely, but he's free to say he'd like it to happen. He isn't condemning anoyone here. His remarks really are innocuous.

by Guest Thu 22 Sep 2011, 4:54 pm

Aye Lucky I see that, I guess what it could also be seen as is that by expressing his hopes, he is in a way hoping people will act in accordance to his beliefs (by not playing on a Sunday), which can be seen as imposing them. In a really weird and roundabout way now that I've typed it.

I can't see it happening though, so don't really see what the issue is. Euan Murray is still one of my faveourite players. I've got huge respect for the guy.

by greybeard Thu 22 Sep 2011, 4:55 pm

But he hopes for change, luckless.

In which case he'd be perfectly happy to see rugby schedules changed to conform to a religious observance. His religious observance, as it happens.

by Luckless Pedestrian Thu 22 Sep 2011, 4:57 pm

Yes, he hopes for change. Hoping is a world away from demanding.

by greybeard Thu 22 Sep 2011, 5:01 pm

I'm not accusing him of demanding.

But why should he even hope for it? Surely he knows there are many people who don't share his views?

by MBTGOG Thu 22 Sep 2011, 5:01 pm

Why wouldn't he hope for it?

by greybeard Thu 22 Sep 2011, 5:02 pm

Because he sounds like a spoilt child who isn't getting his way.

by RubyGuby Thu 22 Sep 2011, 5:03 pm

Jesus!

by greybeard Thu 22 Sep 2011, 5:04 pm

Where?

by the-goon Thu 22 Sep 2011, 5:07 pm

Hawaii is 23 hours behind Auckland so it would be a Saturday there, perhaps someone could tell him that...

by Luckless Pedestrian Thu 22 Sep 2011, 5:07 pm

greybeard wrote:Because he sounds like a spoilt child who isn't getting his way.

With respect, it only sounds like that if you want it to sound like that. All he's done is answer honestly a question put to him. He isn't banging any tables or throwing things around the room.

by RubyGuby Thu 22 Sep 2011, 5:11 pm

I like the goons suggestion it's just a matter of perception and you're there thumbsup

by Knowsit17 Thu 22 Sep 2011, 5:12 pm

luckless_pedestrian wrote:Yes, he hopes for change. Hoping is a world away from demanding.

Would he have the slightest inclination to think of it from other people's POV if the rugby world bent to meet his preferences? That is the question. Would he also approve of most of the playing week being abolished to everyone's convenience BUT the atheists and sceptics?

If he's sensible, he knows that in the fairest possible world it can't happen. I can't be 100% certain when accusing Murray of anything as I can't read his thoughts but his sentiments reek of subjectivity.

by MBTGOG Thu 22 Sep 2011, 5:14 pm

Of course they're subjective.

by HammerofThunor Thu 22 Sep 2011, 5:16 pm

I don't respect him for refusing to play on Sundays. I don't like the fact he makes out he doesn't have a choice if he wants to do it 'properly' when in fact he does.

However it's his choice and I respect his right to make that choice. Just as much I'd respect someone's right to choose not to play on Fridays for whatever reason. Couldn't care less what that reason is (maybe that's when the aliens visit).

EDIT: Saturdays are different. Anyone who refuses to play on Saturdays is a tool Yahoo

by wulliam Thu 22 Sep 2011, 5:26 pm

My two cents on this is that the guy is an absolute clown - he wants international rugby to ban Sunday matches because he cant play on Sundays due to his faith - unbelievable.
"I don't see why there have to be games on Sundays," said Murray. "I hope things will change in future."

I have to comment on this....
Firstly, Murray does not say that he wants Sunday matches stopped so that he can play.
He wants them stopped because he believes they're wrong. Like that or not, it's nothing to do with him being able to play all matches.

Secondly, why does he believe Sunday matches are wrong?
Not because it's his 'opinion', but because it's what God says in the Bible. Again you may not like that, or believe in God, or have any respect for the Bible, but it's not something that Murray has made up. He believes it, and believes it consistently.

Thirdly, I know the guy. He's one of the humblest, most self-effacing men I have ever had the privilege to meet. He puts me to shame with his quiet, peaceful outlook on life. His example is one I can learn from. Perhaps others could too?

I could say so much more...I'll finish with this:
Should a professional (in whatever walk of life) consider his paid profession as being more important than his loved ones?
If not, should he treat the God who (in his opinion if you prefer) made him and saved him as being of less worth?
Surely such a God is worthy of the very best he can give, including obedience to His Word, the Bible. Which includes Sunday as a day of rest.

Here's to Murray keeping a clean conscience next Sunday and playing with all the talent God has given him on the Saturday after.
Here's to Scotland coming top of the group and having Saturday matches in the KO rounds! But if they don't, Murray still has his priorities right!

Regards,
William

by Luckless Pedestrian Thu 22 Sep 2011, 5:30 pm

Thanks for that post, William.

by HammerofThunor Thu 22 Sep 2011, 5:35 pm

Oh and I don't think he's making a big deal out of this. That's the media. Don't think he's trying to covert anyone or force everyone to Christianity....
..
..
..isn't that one of the key parts of Christianity? Spreading the faith? The hypocrite boxing

Actually the bible talks about the Sabbath, which means day of rest. Not any particular day (certainly not the day of the Sun). The three main faiths have picked a nominal day for collective adherence to this. You don't HAVE to choose Sunday as your Sabbath as long as you spend one day a week resting.

by Mr Bounce Thu 22 Sep 2011, 5:38 pm

I think Euan Murray is both brave and stupid.

Brave to come out and show such devotion to his faith and not being prepared to compomise his beliefs. They are his and not for anyone else to decide.

I think he's stupid to not think that the media will play this out of proportion and make him out to be some sort of strange religion-obsessed outsider who thinks everyone should do what he says.

Most rugby fans know he doesn't play on Sundays. Advertising it further could alienate him.

by Jaysus Thu 22 Sep 2011, 5:41 pm

As a catholic can’t he play on Sunday, and then go to confession on Monday to absolve him of his sins?

by Sponsored content