Scotland vs England - Match Thread - Team News - etc...

[HERSH]

First topic message reminder :

How the teams line up

England team: B Foden; C Ashton, M Tuilagi, M Tindall, D Armitage; J Wilkinson, B Youngs; M Stevens, S Thompson, D Cole, L Deacon, C Lawes, T Croft, L Moody (capt), J Haskell.

Replacements: D Hartley, A Corbisiero, T Palmer, N Easter, R Wigglesworth, T Flood, M Banahan.

Scotland team: C Paterson; M Evans, J Ansbro, S Lamont, S Danielli; R Jackson, M Blair; A Jacobsen, R Ford, E Murray, R Gray, A Kellock (capt), A Strokosch , J Barclay, R Vernon.

Replacements: S Lawson, A Dickinson, N Hines, R Rennie, C Cusiter, D Parks, N De Luca.



Last 10 meetings

2011 England 22 - 16 Scotland
2010 Scotland 15 - 15 England
2009 England 26 - 12 Scotland
2008 Scotland 15 - 9 England
2007 England 42 - 20 Scotland
2006 Scotland 18 - 12 England
2005 England 43 - 22 Scotland
2004 Scotland 13 - 35 England
2003 England 40 - 9 Scotland
2002 Scotland 3 - 29 England

England 7 - Scotland 2 - Draw 1

England 273 pts - Scotland 143 pts


IMO on paper the Scots might as well start packing their bags, but I have a strange feeling they might just pull it off, Chris Paterson will have plenty of shots at goal if England continue getting penalised at the breakdown and we all know what that means, he very rarely misses unless his wearing cherry and White!

Or am I being silly?


RWC so far

England

Argentina 9 - 13 England
England 41 - 10 Georgia
England 67 - 3 Romania

England PF 121 pts - PA 22pts


Scotland

Scotland 34 - 24 Romania
Scotland 15 - 6 Georgia
Argentina 13 - 12 Scotland

Scotland PF 61 - PA 43


Missed this one,

England 17 tries to Scotlands 4



Discuss

[G2]

In answer to your question
ENGLAND (probable): B Foden (Northampton); C Ashton (Northampton), M Tuilagi (Leicester), M Tindall (Gloucester), D Armitage (London Irish); J Wilkinson (Toulon), B Youngs (Leicester); M Stevens (Saracens), S Thompson (Wasps), D Cole (Leicester), L Deacon (Leicester), C Lawes (Northampton), T Croft (Leicester), L Moody (Bath), J Haskell (Ricoh Black Rams).

[Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler]

So they think Armitage will get his place back ahead of Cueto ? Interesting. Im dissapointed but not suprissed to see Wilko being touted ahead of Flood and Tindall ahead of Hape. Deacon ahead of Palmer is a big call too.

Never a question that England were going to field what Johnson thought is his stroingest side though.

[robbo277]

Just a general thread for everyone to discuss selection predictions, selection when it happens (earlier hours of Thursday morning for England, would imagine the same about Scotland), score predictions, pool predictions, the match itself when it comes around and everything else. It just seems to make sense to have one topic about all these things. So:

Who would you select for the crunch game against Scotland? Would you go for your absolute best 22, or do you think there is room for 1 or 2 changes to keep people fresh and keep competition high? Does Lawes come straight back into the team if he is fit? What about Easter, has he recovered and should he play if he has? What about injury replacement Thomas Waldrom, should he make his England debut on Saturday?

What do you make of the "Auld Enemy"? Scotland are on the verge of going out and will be fired up when they come out to face us on Saturday. Will the pressure help or hinder Scotland?

Where do you think England will finish in the pool? A bonus point (providing we don't lose by 41 points) would secure us qualification, and 2 or more match points would guarantee we topped the pool. We could still lose without a bonus point and qualify as pool winners, if the Georgians lose to Argentina but stop them getting a bonus point, but then a fourth Argentina try would put us out completely!

[EnglishReign]

Hmm, would like to see Wood, Palmer, Corbisiero and Cueto start but Johnson knows more than I do, I'm sure.

Youngs reckons pressure is on the Scots http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/15082429.stm

[George Carlin]

Youngs' regular statements of the crashingly bleeding obvious are becoming something of a feature of pre-match press in this tournament.

Much better value on the Beed is our own JB's blog - the man is a real lover of the sport and actually very keen to give credit to all teams when it's due:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/rugby_union/15081453.stm

[Sgt_Pooly]

One thing is for sure....this will be no joy to watch. I see two scenerios

1. England by 7-10 points in a low scoring affair (17-12?)

2. Engalnd do an "England" and lose by 6 points, hanging on at the last minute to go through and break Scotland hearts etc etc

[EnglishReign]

That 2nd scenario is worth a punt.

[yappysnap]

1.Corbisiero
2.Thompson
3.Cole
4.Lawes
5.Palmer
6.Croft
7.Moody (c)
8.Haskell
9.Youngs
10.Flood
11.Armitage
12.Tindall
13.Tuilagi
14.Ashton
15.Foden

16.Stevens
17.Hartley
18.Shaw
19.Wood
20.Hape
21.Wigglesworth
22.Wilkinson

[yappysnap]

Our strongest possible team and only questions would be:

Starting 10? I went with Flood as on top form he offers more and he's kicking better, if he has a bad day Wilkinson is very good off the bench. Winner of this battle starts in the knock outs.

No8? Should be Haskell but will Johnson go with his old chum Easter, i hope not.

Locks? We need atheletism in the pack, if we get pulled in to an arm wrestle we're just giving Scotland the rope to hang us, Lawes must come out and perform and Shaw offers much more off the bench then Deacon.

Subs Split? I've gone for 4/3 but Jonno might decide he needs another prop or backrow type.

No 22? Who covers enough positions and is actually good enough to warrant a place on the bench? No one really but if Hape covers centre then Manu & Delon cover everything else.

If we play the wide game but the forwards hit the rucks then we should get a comfy win. If our plan is to go out and try and beat up the Scots and the forwards don't make them run a bit then it'll get messy, if it gets messy then it's either teams.

Form, talent and results say England should win this but we are the masters at making a simple game difficult, should be a Eng win by 10, will probably be by 1 point.

[screamingaddabs]

One thing is for sure....this will be no joy to watch. I see two scenerios

1. England by 7-10 points in a low scoring affair (17-12?)

2. Engalnd do an "England" and lose by 6 points, hanging on at the last minute to go through and break Scotland hearts etc etc

Pendants corner!! 17-12 is not 7-10 points.

[Luckless Pedestrian]

Youngs' regular statements of the crashingly bleeding obvious are becoming something of a feature of pre-match press in this tournament.

He's writing for the Times at the moment, too. He's not great there either. But still, fair play to him for earning a bit on the side.

[BigTrevsbigmac]

Telegraph reporting Lawes,Stevens & Armitage to come in & Palmer drops to bench so Deacon to start. Wilko to start too.

Personally I would have preferred Palmer to start & Shaw on the bench but we shall see when team is confirmed tomorrow.

It looks to be our strongest team out. Cueto missing out is very ironic after scoring 3 but I am happy with Armitage who is more of a line breaker.

Key as usual will be the breakdown where Scotland were very powerful against us in the 6Ns but they haven't continued with that in the WC so far, however, they won't have more incentive than playing against England.

Give our back three quick ball and we will be fine.

[bedfordwelsh]

Surely lawes will come back after his ban and Haskell has been on great form for you guys.

I honestly can't see Scotland getting the required result from this game, I can see them sneaking a tight game if it went that way but I can't see them beating England by a clear 8pts.

[EnglishReign]

1.Corbisiero
2.Thompson
3.Cole
4.Lawes
5.Palmer
6.Croft
7.Moody (c)
8.Haskell
9.Youngs
10.Wilkinson
11.Cueto
12.Tindall
13.Tuilagi
14.Ashton
15.Foden

Would be my starting 15. Chose Wilko as he's showing some excellent try-making offloads at the moment. He's generally very reliable and a big tackler which we will really need. Put Cueto in as well as I just think he looks the better option at the moment.

[EnglishReign]

To be fair to Youngs the interviewer asked obvious questions like "would Scotland enjoy knocking out England?" No, not at all...

[Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler]

Youngs' regular statements of the crashingly bleeding obvious are becoming something of a feature of pre-match press in this tournament.

He's writing for the Times at the moment, too. He's not great there either. But still, fair play to him for earning a bit on the side.

I thought that was Tindall?

[Tattie Scones RRN]

truth is i am not uncomfortable about this game at all- I think perosnally with the draw england should be favs to reach the final, no disrespect to ireland or wales here, you have a great chance also, but id put england slight favs

so if we get beat up by scotland by 8 then lets be honest we dont deserve anything.

Whilst I believe England will hump us at the weekend, from what I've seen, England will struggle to beat France (not listening to any BS about previous WC's and England's record against the French) and if they do, they'll probably meet Wales in the semi.

Then it will be bye bye to England.

So England are not slightly favourites at all, apart from biased English fans who haven't really watched Wales (or Ireland) so far this WC.

[BATH_BTGOG]

I'd go for Shaw to start, he still looks like our best 2nd row the guy is a living legend to still be playing at this level at his age.

[Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler]

The controversial positions are Stevens vs Corbs, Deacon vs Palmer, Wliko vs Flood, Tindall vs Hape, Armitage vs Cueto

According to the "probable" team reported its the ones i listed first who have got the nod, presumably with the majority of the ones left out on the bench

I would have prefered Palmer Flood, Hape personaly but I cant see it as a team to be unhappy about. Most of the sleections are pretty much no brainers.
As it is we have a balanced side with plenty of experience and a real cutting edge if they can get the ball past Tindall.

[BATH_BTGOG]

English fans biased about Englands chances!!!!

shocker, rugby players drink beer.....

[EnglishReign]

truth is i am not uncomfortable about this game at all- I think perosnally with the draw england should be favs to reach the final, no disrespect to ireland or wales here, you have a great chance also, but id put england slight favs

so if we get beat up by scotland by 8 then lets be honest we dont deserve anything.

Whilst I believe England will hump us at the weekend, from what I've seen, England will struggle to beat France (not listening to any BS about previous WC's and England's record against the French) and if they do, they'll probably meet Wales in the semi.

Then it will be bye bye to England.
So England are not slightly favourites at all, apart from biased English fans who haven't really watched Wales (or Ireland) so far this WC.

Is that definite now? I was just wondering who I should back at the bookies. Cheers for clearing it up

[robbo277]

De Luca eyes England exit 'bonus': http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/15069848.stm

[AsLongAsBut100ofUs]

De Luca eyes England exit 'bonus': http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/15069848.stm

Complete clown - hopefully NDL won't be gracing the turf

[Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler]

Fortunatly as long as de Luca is the nearest thing to a center Scotland can find we dont have to worry too much about his win bonus. Im sure theres a few England age group player sthey could pick up after the cup to replace him.

[AsLongAsBut100ofUs]

Fortunatly as long as de Luca is the nearest thing to a center Scotland can find we dont have to worry too much about his win bonus. Im sure theres a few England age group player sthey could pick up after the cup to replace him.

All suggestions welcome, Biscuit - you pick 2nd class SH players, and we'll gladly take yours

[Cumbrian]

De Luca eyes England exit 'bonus': http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/15069848.stm

Complete clown - hopefully NDL won't be gracing the turf

Ah it's all just gobshite before the actual stuff starts. The banter's gone out of the game a bit. I miss the good old days when Brian Moore would spend the whole week leading up to England vs. France games questioning the French player's manhood in the press.

[Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler]

De Luca eyes England exit 'bonus': http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/15069848.stm

Complete clown - hopefully NDL won't be gracing the turf

Ah it's all just gobshite before the actual stuff starts. The banter's gone out of the game a bit. I miss the good old days when Brian Moore would spend the whole week leading up to England vs. France games questioning the French player's manhood in the press.

Aside form the little brother Wales stuff

And everything Gatland ever says even when hes trying to be nice

And P Divvy

[Great White]

England should win this but we are the masters at making a simple game difficult

With regards to this fixture, I'd suggest that its more like Scotland dragging anybody who plays them down to their own (mediocre) level.

[Cumbrian]

De Luca eyes England exit 'bonus': http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/15069848.stm

Complete clown - hopefully NDL won't be gracing the turf

Ah it's all just gobshite before the actual stuff starts. The banter's gone out of the game a bit. I miss the good old days when Brian Moore would spend the whole week leading up to England vs. France games questioning the French player's manhood in the press.

Aside form the little brother Wales stuff

And everything Gatland ever says even when hes trying to be nice

And P Divvy

True, true. I just find the quality of the wind up a bit rubbish now I suppose. It would be a 'bonus' to knock is out? No Poopie!?! Tell it like it is Nick, you the man!

[Guest]

Flood has to start for me, i like him at 10 ahead of wilkinson, flood has got a lot better and was very good in the 6 nations, wilko is good off the bench, but i think we have to look at flood now, he is the future.

[George Carlin]

To be fair to Youngs the interviewer asked obvious questions like "would Scotland enjoy knocking out England?" No, not at all...

Nick de Luca played that question with a straight bat with the BBC - just saying it would be "a bonus" if Scotland progressed at the expense of England.

Better answer is Robinson's stock response "I won't be drawn on that, but I will say that [insert inoffensive comment here]..."

[lostinwales]

I cant see cueto infront of armitage.

Armitage has done nothing wrong. Cueto actually scored tries for once and was looking sharp - but apart from the (very important) skill of being in the right place at the right time he only had to work for one. Armitage has a better all round game at the moment - and seemed to be doing a great job with his link play.

Armitage looks to be back to something of his best. He has had a bad couple of seasons and has done some dumb things - but that last Lions tour he should probably have gone on the plane in front of Byrne (although neither of those 2 players could have done more in the tests than Kearney did)

[funnyExiledScot]

One thing is for sure....this will be no joy to watch. I see two scenerios

1. England by 7-10 points in a low scoring affair (17-12?)

2. Engalnd do an "England" and lose by 6 points, hanging on at the last minute to go through and break Scotland hearts etc etc

Pendants corner!! 17-12 is not 7-10 points.

Shouldn't that be "pedants"?

[Biltong]

this is the last game before the quarter finals, the coaches must now select their best match day 22 barring injuries to become the finished article, there is now no more time to experiment or rest players, it is go big or go home.

[TheGreyGhost]

Fortunatly as long as de Luca is the nearest thing to a center Scotland can find we dont have to worry too much about his win bonus. Im sure theres a few England age group player sthey could pick up after the cup to replace him.

Maybe they should look in NZ and Samoa for their centers as England did, certainly those England age group players you mention will never get a run out for their home country?

[beshocked]

truth is i am not uncomfortable about this game at all- I think perosnally with the draw england should be favs to reach the final, no disrespect to ireland or wales here, you have a great chance also, but id put england slight favs

so if we get beat up by scotland by 8 then lets be honest we dont deserve anything.

Whilst I believe England will hump us at the weekend, from what I've seen, England will struggle to beat France (not listening to any BS about previous WC's and England's record against the French) and if they do, they'll probably meet Wales in the semi.

Then it will be bye bye to England.

So England are not slightly favourites at all, apart from biased English fans who haven't really watched Wales (or Ireland) so far this WC.

Which matches have you watched? France got comfortably beaten by NZ. France struggle with England. It isn't BS it is fact. Just because the celtic countries get regularly humped by France doesn't mean England do.

Facing the mighty Welsh who have lost to us home and away this year? I am really worried!

[Boyne]

Once again Beshocked will be crying into his warm beer methinks with that attitude!!

The arrogance, oh, the arrogance!!

[dummy_half]

England should be looking to build on the performance against Romania, and pick their best available team:

Corbisiero if fit (Stevens otherwise)
Thompson
Cole
Lawes
Deacon (being the better line-out forward)
Croft
Moody
Haskell

Youngs
Wilkinson
Armitage
Tindall
Tuillagi
Ashton
Foden

Bench:
Stevens (Wilson if Corbs unfit)
Hartley
Palmer
Wood (more versatile than Easter)
Wigglesworth
Flood
Cueto (Again, versatility across the back 4)

A competent to good performance should be enough to see us past Scotland, although I don't expect it to be an easy match. If we gain parity up front then the back 4 offer a lot of attacking threat, which the Scots don't match.

[robbo277]

I'd go with:

1. Stevens
2. Thompson
3. Cole
4. Lawes
5. Palmer
6. Croft
7. Moody
8. Haskell
9. Youngs
10. Flood
11. Cueto
12. Hape
13. Tuilagi
14. Ashton
15. Foden

16. Hartley
17. Corbisiero
18. Shaw
19. Easter
20. Wigglesworth
21. Wilkinson
22. Tindall

I'm not sure if I'd pick Flood, Cueto or Hape if this was a straight knock-out game, but I'd like to see how the three guys fare. Hape and Cueto were both first choice but have now fallen down the pecking order, yet both players had one good game against one of the minnows in the group, so I would look at how they fair against a top nation before making my choice for the quarter-finals. Flood was obviously first choice when we were playing well and won the Six Nations, but his form has dropped slightly. I'd give him this match to see if he's back at this level, if not Wilkinson can come on and will then start the knock-out games.

On the bench I think Easter needs to prove his fitness now, I wouldn't want him to go into a knock-out match cold. I think Waldrom being called up is a bad sign for Easter, but I'm not sure if Johnson will replace him, as calling up a new player might not add much to the team, but could potentially be divisive in terms of morale.

[Breadvan]

Fortunatly as long as de Luca is the nearest thing to a center Scotland can find we dont have to worry too much about his win bonus. Im sure theres a few England age group player sthey could pick up after the cup to replace him.

Maybe they should look in NZ and Samoa for their centers as England did, certainly those England age group players you mention will never get a run out for their home country?

[tomhughesnice]

Agree Biltong, a maximum of 4 games left for the qualifying teams. Unless your playing one of the smaller rugby nations, you should be trying to field your first XV now til the end.

Not many players have totally nailed down their shirt for England.
2. Steve Thompson(Not 100%)
3. Dan Cole
4. Courtney Lawes(Maybe??)
5. Tom Palmer
6. Lewis Moody(Experience and Captain)
9. Ben Youngs
14. Chris Ashton
15. Ben Foden

Back row could be any combo of Easter, Woods, Croft, Moody or Haskell. But in my opinion I think our top back row is Moody, Croft and Haskell.

Centres its a combo of Hape, Tindall, or Tuilagi... Tindall could be in 12 or 13 for all we know. But now I think Tuilagi is the first centre on the team sheet, so Tindall is at 12 for his leadership, experience and kicking game is not bad.

Dont know who to pick between Cueto or Armitage, both players have deserved their place in the first XV. Probably Cueto now he just got some good tries under his belt.

Similar story for flyhalf, Wilko or Flood??? In a knock out stage, kicking your goals is crucial... Flood has been much better than Wilko in this department. But I think every England fan knows who they want to kick the match winning drop goal.

[Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler]

Well Easter vs Waldrom will be down to the fitness of Easter.
If hes fit and had time to train I cant imagine Tubs getting in the squad ahead of him (although he does offer cover at 6) for this or any future game in teh torunament.

[Guest]

flood and cueto have to be in there IMO

[Tattie Scones RRN]

truth is i am not uncomfortable about this game at all- I think perosnally with the draw england should be favs to reach the final, no disrespect to ireland or wales here, you have a great chance also, but id put england slight favs

so if we get beat up by scotland by 8 then lets be honest we dont deserve anything.

Whilst I believe England will hump us at the weekend, from what I've seen, England will struggle to beat France (not listening to any BS about previous WC's and England's record against the French) and if they do, they'll probably meet Wales in the semi.

Then it will be bye bye to England.

So England are not slightly favourites at all, apart from biased English fans who haven't really watched Wales (or Ireland) so far this WC.

Which matches have you watched? France got comfortably beaten by NZ. France struggle with England. It isn't BS it is fact. Just because the celtic countries get regularly humped by France doesn't mean England do.

Facing the mighty Welsh who have lost to us home and away this year? I am really worried!

Listen Beshocked - just stating my feelings from a neutral.

France were humped by NZ yes - who are easily head and shoulders above anyone else at the moment so no shame there.

'Facing the mighty Welsh who have lost to us home and away this year? I am really worried!'

Yip - the same Welsh team that destroyed the same Argentinian that you were extremely lucky to beat.

If you play like you have so far, against this performing Welsh team, I'm afraid to say that you will be beaten.

In fact, I go as far to say that this Welsh team could dominate NH rugby for the next 3-4 years at least.

Anyway, good luck for Saturday (not that you'll need it)

[eirebilly]

Scotland will be up for it against England and in AR they have a coach that knows how to beat England. That said, i honestly cant see it happening. I can see the match being a scrappy affair for about 60mins with Scotland well in the game before England run in a couple of trys. England but 12 is my prediction.

For you Scottish fans, as an Irishman i know exactly how you feel being done by Argentina. Happened to the Irish a few times as well. Good luck to both teams.

[mystiroakey]

hey billy- its been a whilehope your good!- I am in holland this weekend- anywhere to watch the rugby!

[eirebilly]

Hey Mysti, you here as well mate. Good to see. Coco's in Amsterdam is a pretty good place to watch. Which part will you be in?

[beshocked]

truth is i am not uncomfortable about this game at all- I think perosnally with the draw england should be favs to reach the final, no disrespect to ireland or wales here, you have a great chance also, but id put england slight favs

so if we get beat up by scotland by 8 then lets be honest we dont deserve anything.

Whilst I believe England will hump us at the weekend, from what I've seen, England will struggle to beat France (not listening to any BS about previous WC's and England's record against the French) and if they do, they'll probably meet Wales in the semi.

Then it will be bye bye to England.

So England are not slightly favourites at all, apart from biased English fans who haven't really watched Wales (or Ireland) so far this WC.

Which matches have you watched? France got comfortably beaten by NZ. France struggle with England. It isn't BS it is fact. Just because the celtic countries get regularly humped by France doesn't mean England do.

Facing the mighty Welsh who have lost to us home and away this year? I am really worried!

Listen Beshocked - just stating my feelings from a neutral.

France were humped by NZ yes - who are easily head and shoulders above anyone else at the moment so no shame there.

'Facing the mighty Welsh who have lost to us home and away this year? I am really worried!'

Yip - the same Welsh team that destroyed the same Argentinian that you were extremely lucky to beat.

If you play like you have so far, against this performing Welsh team, I'm afraid to say that you will be beaten.

In fact, I go as far to say that this Welsh team could dominate NH rugby for the next 3-4 years at least.

Anyway, good luck for Saturday (not that you'll need it)

Don't build the Welsh too high. You don't seem to understand the importance of home advantage or circumstances. Argentina was playing away from home, in I believe their first warm up game. Also this was a warm up match against Wales, not a world cup pool match vs England. Which do you think the Argentinians will be more fired up for?

Yes if we talk about hypothetical form then yes Wales would win. Yes they are playing better but that means absolutely nothing until they meet. England have dispatched all opposition so far. Wales were plucky but failed to beat South Africa yet again. That's the reality.

A very bold statement. I know you aren't Welsh but building them up so high is silly. Two wins at home doesn't make Wales overnight world beaters.

Where was the luck against Argentina? We scored the only try. We were in the ascendancy.

Boyne I suppose it's arrogance when England talk up their side but confidence when anyone else talks up theirs.

[mystiroakey]

going to the hague this time around- but its not far from the dam, so if i cant find anywhere there- i will check out coco's

cheers mate

[englandglory4ever]

England's discipline will be the difference. If England start poorly and give away 3 or 4 silly pens the scots will punish us and get buoyed by it. On the other hand, if England can temper themselves and play calmly then the Scots will have a very difficult day. It will either be a very close tight affair or a relatively easy win for England. Discipline is all that counts for England because they have the fire power to play very well..

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