Scotland vs England - Match Thread - Team News - etc...

[HERSH]

How the teams line up

England team: B Foden; C Ashton, M Tuilagi, M Tindall, D Armitage; J Wilkinson, B Youngs; M Stevens, S Thompson, D Cole, L Deacon, C Lawes, T Croft, L Moody (capt), J Haskell.

Replacements: D Hartley, A Corbisiero, T Palmer, N Easter, R Wigglesworth, T Flood, M Banahan.

Scotland team: C Paterson; M Evans, J Ansbro, S Lamont, S Danielli; R Jackson, M Blair; A Jacobsen, R Ford, E Murray, R Gray, A Kellock (capt), A Strokosch , J Barclay, R Vernon.

Replacements: S Lawson, A Dickinson, N Hines, R Rennie, C Cusiter, D Parks, N De Luca.



Last 10 meetings

2011 England 22 - 16 Scotland
2010 Scotland 15 - 15 England
2009 England 26 - 12 Scotland
2008 Scotland 15 - 9 England
2007 England 42 - 20 Scotland
2006 Scotland 18 - 12 England
2005 England 43 - 22 Scotland
2004 Scotland 13 - 35 England
2003 England 40 - 9 Scotland
2002 Scotland 3 - 29 England

England 7 - Scotland 2 - Draw 1

England 273 pts - Scotland 143 pts


IMO on paper the Scots might as well start packing their bags, but I have a strange feeling they might just pull it off, Chris Paterson will have plenty of shots at goal if England continue getting penalised at the breakdown and we all know what that means, he very rarely misses unless his wearing cherry and White!

Or am I being silly?


RWC so far

England

Argentina 9 - 13 England
England 41 - 10 Georgia
England 67 - 3 Romania

England PF 121 pts - PA 22pts


Scotland

Scotland 34 - 24 Romania
Scotland 15 - 6 Georgia
Argentina 13 - 12 Scotland

Scotland PF 61 - PA 43


Missed this one,

England 17 tries to Scotlands 4



Discuss

[Biltong]

Sadly i just don't think the real scotland has pitched up for this world cup.

[LondonTiger]

Sadly i just don't think the real scotland has pitched up for this world cup.

Personally I feel that what we have seen is the real Scotland. A lot of huff and a good defence. Pretty much all their big wins have occurred with fantastic rearguard actions and good kicking. This may however be enough to win on Saturday.

[tomhughesnice]

On paper its all England. Scotland have only beaten us in the last ten years with home advantage.

Dont think England will dominate Scotland though, I predict a scrappy error strewn game. I can see England getting about two tries out of this game, it just depends on the number of penalties we give away.

If I were to predict a score I would say ENG 20 - SCO 12

[Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler]

They play the way that causes England problems though. If England dont get early scores I think they will get sucked into the tight game and be relying on the last 10 minutes to pull away.
Id be very supissed if Scotland won by more than 7, I certainly wouldnt say they were incapable of beating England though.

England have more to worry about than any of the other pot 1/2 teams certainly.

[Portnoy]

Robbo277 penned a quite brilliant article https://www.606v2.com/t14785-who-s-going-to-qualify-for-the-quarter-finals

Personally I don't give Scotland a flea's chance in a sheep dip.

I want Ritchie Gray to play though. Is he fit?

As for me, I am treating this RWC as part of the build-up to 2015 where it could be a real contest between the hemispheres rather than the current pointless wishful aspirations that anyone anywhere can realistically hope to compete with the ABs.

[HammerofThunor]

We've only beaten them in the last 6 years with home advantage. I can see Scotland winning it but I don't think it'll be by more than 7. Unless our discipline completely goes to pot (which isn't unlikely)

[Comfort]

Scotland dont seem to have hit any sort of form so far. England should win this game, although they havent played that much better (routing of romania excluded) but they have the tools.

I dont think England should be scared, I think they should be petrified!!!!!













nah, they'll go through, sorry scotland.

[21st Century Schizoid Man]

No

[JDandfries]

England have given away alot of penalties in their games so far - that said Scotland aint gonna score a try, and will probably concede at least one.

My Prediction

England -22-21 Scotland

[Biltong]

No

Just that, nothing more informative, something controversial to add to the debate.

Gimme something.

[EnglishReign]

Part of me thinks England will build on last week's game and decimate the Scots. The other part of me thinks Scotland will turn up; Andy Robinson knows all about England's strengths and weaknesses. It's amazing to think that England and Ireland with 3 wins from 3 could still go out in the pool stage.

[rugbyfan]

If england keep discilpine then they should be comfortable winners - by about 10-12 points, but, if they give away kickable penalties early on then the scots will get encouragement and it could be a long afternoon for England. Just can't see Sctoland scoring tries...........

[Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler]

but they have the tools.

bit rude to haskell

[dogtooth]

england need to take scotland seriously. the scots havent had a good performance yet, but im not sure england have either.

england should win if they put in a good performance. it will be a lucky scotland that wins, but win they could.

it should be a good game for the neutrals. it must be nerve wracking for scotish and english fans.

[rodders]

Last 10 meetings

2011 England 22 - 16 Scotland
2010 Scotland 15 - 15 England
2009 England 26 - 12 Scotland
2008 Scotland 15 - 9 England
2007 England 42 - 20 Scotland
2006 Scotland 18 - 12 England
2005 England 43 - 22 Scotland
2004 Scotland 13 - 35 England
2003 England 40 - 9 Scotland
2002 Scotland 3 - 29 England

England 7 - Scotland 2 - Draw 1

England 273 pts - Scotland 143 pts

I think the key thing there is that if you cut that down to the last 6 meetings, which I think is more relevent, the results stand as:

England 3 - Scotland 2 - Draw 1

No side has beat the other away from home on the past 6 meetings but England did get a draw in 2010.

Based on RWC 2011 form so far England have been marginally the stronger side so logic would indicate a 5 -10 point England victory. However there is plenty there to give the Scots hope and England plenty to worry about.

Scotlands problem though is that they need the bonus point which will force them to take more risks, whereas England can sit back and feed of Scotland errors and play their natural game.

I think England are favourites here but Scotland are certainly capable of causing an upset especially as it's do or die for them and they have nothing to lose.

[glamorganalun]

I have gone for England by more than 7 points as Scotland have no cutting edge in attack, the best they could hope for is an interception try or an up and under coming down near the posts. I hope for a good game but somehow I doubt it, if rains and is windy the game could go either way.

I think we are seeing the best of Scotland, the forwards are big and strong but the backs!

[Comfort]

but they have the tools.

bit rude to haskell

ill give him his dues, hes potentially the best number 8 in the world.

we've already seen what can happen when players model their game on his: Sean O'Brien.

[mystiroakey]

"2011 England 22 - 16 Scotland
2010 Scotland 15 - 15 England
2009 England 26 - 12 Scotland
2008 Scotland 15 - 9 England
2007 England 42 - 20 Scotland
2006 Scotland 18 - 12 England
2005 England 43 - 22 Scotland
2004 Scotland 13 - 35 England
2003 England 40 - 9 Scotland
2002 Scotland 3 - 29 England "

england normally win by more than 7- scotland havent won by more than 6.

you would have to give me 100/1 for me to back scotland beating england by 7 or more- and still that probally wouldnt be enough

[HERSH]

England have yet to play outside in the RWC so far, so if it does rain then Scotland will have the edge.

[Guest]

I agree with others that the fact that Scotland need to actually come out and play will suit England. Scotland's attack has fewer teeth than a baby maggot.

I'm actually pretty confident.

England by 15-20.

Bring on the French!

[Comfort]

England have yet to play outside in the RWC so far, so if it does rain then Scotland will have the edge.

considering their english (the majority )I assume most will have no trouble playing in the rain. you know, seeing as it seems to rain across the uk for 97% of the time.

[mystiroakey]

the fact is guys there is no point worrying about who has won more games etc-

its a handicap game in essence- england start with a 6pt headstart- when was the last time scotland beat england ny more than 6!! well not in the last 20 odd years id guess.

[TycroesOsprey]

Oh god dont tell me another decent thread is going to get destroyed by pedigree.

[HERSH]

England do play in the rain this is true, but our backs perform better in the dry if its wet they go missing and they seem to lack basic ball handling skills.

But when it rains in NZ it rains, also Englands goal kicking hasn't been great indoors, outside in the wind and the rain hmmm!

There may be trouble ahead....

[mystiroakey]

tycros whats your problem pal.

I am adding to a debate- you are just spouting childish rants!

[TycroesOsprey]

hmmm, not a rant, a simple statement. Nor is it childish I was referring to another thread which was derailed by a number of meaningless posts that displayed little actual knowledge of the game of rugby rather than a meaningful debate on the relative merits of teh NH teams which that thread had been.

Now we get a golfing analogy in rugby? really stick to golf.

[GLove39]

A very tough ask for the Scotland team, for one thing though they certainly won't lack motivation. The chance to knock the 'auld enemy' out of the tournament will be a tantalising prospect...

[mystiroakey]

very ironic how you are trying to derail this thread.

listen to your own advice.

At least i stayed on topic, i may have gone on a tangent- but i wasnt abusing anyone

[BATH_BTGOG]

How can England go out?

We must have more bonus points than Scotland and points difference is in our favour.

[mystiroakey]

bath reulst between teams count before points difference.

scotland can go through if the two scenarios happen

argentina get 5 pts in there last game.

scotland beat england by 7 and dont give away a bonus point

[funnyExiledScot]

I think England will win by less than 7 points, leaving Scotland needing Georgia to beat Argentina by 8 points or more.

I will not enjoy a single minute of Saturday.

[HERSH]

Missed this one,

England 17 tries to Scotlands 4

[TycroesOsprey]

you are just spouting childish rants!

I didnt launch a personal attack read your own post pal.

As for the match England should win comfortably but I wouldnt bet against scotland on a wet and windy day in eden park.

[RubyGuby]

C'mon Oakey - you're only behaving in this rather churlish manner 'cos your probably new on here and therefore you have no 606 Pedigree chum

[HERSH]

Lads clam down

[mystiroakey]

so you think its weather permiting then.

The english are pretty versed at playing in bad conditions as well.

I think england are strong favs- much stronger with the implied 6pt handicap, good weather or not.

If scotland turn up and england dont when they could win good weather or not

[funnyExiledScot]

HERSH - you clearly missed Gregor Townsend this morning. Scotland are not training to score tries, because we can win matches without tries, so it's unfair to compare.......

[Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler]

How can England go out?

We must have more bonus points than Scotland and points difference is in our favour.

Head to head trumps points difference. If Argentina win and get a BP (fairly likely) and Scotland win and deny England a BP they go through. (Argentina 15, Scotland 14, England 14)
If tehy all end up on 14 points the head to head is ignored ( due to the paper rock scissors rule) and then it goes on points difference, which most likely will put Scotland out and England top. So really England want Argentina to win small.

[mystiroakey]

i may be new on here, but not to 606 where i am sure we have done all of this before

[RubyGuby]

Thats obvious oakey

[flyhalffactory]

Afternoon campers

I see another decent thread has been hijacked by King WUM again. Tycroes mate you have to ignore this boy otherwise he'll ping pong you all day with his immature rants, and then have the audacity to blame you for instigating the childish interlude. I got sucked in last night, only thing to do is ignore him, like a puppy he'll settle down eventually and go to sleep.

Anyway to get back on to the thread.
England should win the match based on past results, so I agree they go into the match as strong favourites, for Scotland we only had two warm up games when it was clear we needed a third to try out some combos, we have played poorly throughout, AR has selected poorly, we have shown no invention or guile. As for us winning by more than 7pts .............. almost an impossibility.

CAN'T WAIT FOR IT.

[beshocked]

It is clear that England are favourites but let's not be complacent. Scotland are not an easy to play,especially if it rains. Like Argentina they are experts at frustating opposition. Scotland may well be toothless in attack but their defence is still strong. To beat England they will have to force England to give away penalties and pounce on the opportunities that arise.

Argentina were especially effective at frustating England. Scotland must emulate this.

Scotland should only go for the try if the opportunity arises - e.g. England have a man in the bin or they have potential advantage.

They should forget about the points difference and just focus on the win. If you win but are knocked out at least you go down fighting to the last.

[glamorganalun]

I think some on here don't fully understand the comment regarding bad weather, bad weather a team leveler reducing the advantage of normally the better team. Sorry to insult the brighter members on this thread.

[TrailApe]

Can't wait for it to be over!

I get very nervous and techy during England vs Scotland games.

And that's when I'm 'relaxed' with a good few bevvies.

I'll not be able to cope on mugs of tea

[Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler]

I think some on here don't fully understand the comment regarding bad weather, bad weather a team leveler reducing the advantage of normally the better team. Sorry to insult the brighter members on this thread.

Certainly in the case of a side like England who struggle with the physical battle and want to get the ball to the fast backs. The lack of kicking form teh back 3 suggest the last thing they want is a territorial battle where sides look to pin each other back and draw turnovers form mistakes in poor conditions.
I think SA would be quite happy to beat try and beat up Scootland in a mudbath.

[Luckless Pedestrian]

1) I can see Scotland winning.

2) I can't see them winning by more than seven points.

3) I'm a terrible tipster.

[HammerofThunor]

England have probably gone into every game with Scotland as favourites for the last 6 years. We've only won the home ones. I would take a draw mind. Favourites means diddle-squat come kick off. They may assist in predicting things, setting odds, etc but have no baring on the actual result. All the top teams are physically capable of beating the other top teams. We'll see, enjoy or despair

[mystiroakey]

"I think some on here don't fully understand the comment regarding bad weather, bad weather a team leveler reducing the advantage of normally the better team. Sorry to insult the brighter members on this thread."

You could say that, and it certainly can reduce 'real rugby' , but the fact is its no complete leveler, the best on the day will win. As we know with rugby- weather really doesnt play much part in the end results- all the home nations can beat the others on a giving day immaterial of the weather.

Its about turning up and proving the quailty they have.

rain or shine- england are massive favourites- esp with teh 6 pt handiacp!

[Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler]

It can change the type of game thats the key. Its much harder to play riuunning passing fast rugby in poor weather.
So if like England youre better because you have better backs and the packs are pretty equal then a side like Scotland will be happy to see conditions that lead to a penalty fest and lots of forward oriented play.

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