Dragons vs Ulster 30th September

First topic message reminder :

And thus begins my first topic on v2.

Ulster squad up. Cave and IH in contention to return to action.

ULSTER SQUAD FORWARDS

Jerry Cronin, Conor Carey, Paddy McAllister, Declan Fitzpatrick, Adam Macklin, Andi Kyriacou, John Burns, Niall Annett, Nigel Brady, Tim Barker, Lewis Stevenson, Dan Tuohy, Neil McComb, Pedrie Wannenburg, Mike McComish, Chris Henry (captain), Willie Faloon, Robbie Diack

ULSTER SQUAD BACKS

Paul Marshall, Blane McIlroy, Ian Porter, Ian Humphreys, Paddy Jackson, James McKinney, Luke Marshall, Nevin Spence, Darren Cave, Ian Whitten, Craig Gilroy, Conor Gaston, Jared Payne, Adam D’Arcy 

Bigger and better performance required from the forwards.

Paddy power has it as

Dragons Evens
Draw 20/1
Ulster 4/5

Ulster slight favourites have to say I agree with PP on this one.

Ye what's the deal with gus then?
I hear when his and maules contracts are up there could be a swap on the cards...

Tidy backline, glad to see chavy playing and the halfbacks look strong.
The front row is a real issue but one I think we can cope with (blind optimism)

Really Looking forward to the game, didn't enjoy last week (half due to feeling groggy from a rugby game n half we were pants) so can't wait to get over, get singing n watch some rugby!

Hopefully some of the loud ulster fans who made the effort to go to the Ospreys game will also go to the Dragons one. They seemed a nice bunch.

I don't think Ulster were up to much against the Ospreys though, I'm not sure how the teams compare but I would expect provided the dragons don't commit suicide early on they should take control and put Ulster away.

Nigel Patterson is the referee of Scotland, don't know much about him, so hopefully he will be more competent than some of the ones we have had at the Liberty.

I won't be going to the game sadly, Stoke the football club aparently qualified for Europe, so they had to move their game against Swansea at the liberty to Sunday, so the Ospreys got put at Friday in a direct clash with the Dragons.

Dragons to lose imo. If we manage to win this it will do wonders to the confidence of our young backline. Beeb has Marshall at 13 and Spence at 12. Correct?

If Ulster pick the same pack as you did against the Ospreys then Ulster need to be very worried, the scrumaging was simply awful against the Ospreys.

While the Dragons back line can carve teams apart at home.

Different ref, different scrum really. Ref came down in favour of Duncan Jones but I've seen props get consistently penalised for the same thing. I'm not worried about the scrum, because Opsreys are very strong there even with a few guys missing.

A lot will aways depend on interpretation in the scrum. At this level, I've seen inconsistent interpretations from week to week.

I have to agree if our pack has a collective off-day like we did on Sunday we will struggle but on the other hand if they play like they did versus Cardiff they will be the ones struggling, so which Ulster team will turn up?

Neil Paterson may have Ulster roots but he's the last ref. I'd want in charge - normally gives Ulster at least one yellow.

Don't think he knows anymore about the scrum than Phillips did last week, but he tends to swap penalties 50/50 there. He is generally a homer as well but still tends to gets on the wrong side of both fans, so if Ulster win there will be some disgruntled Dragons on here.

I think it'll be a good open game. The weather should help and hopefully we'll see both teams playing a bit. I'm hoping home advantage and the chance to see the new boy chavhanga play will mean a dragons win.
Saw chavhanga at the parade earlier and he said he was impressed with the pitch, compared to the training field!!!! and said he was hoping to get his hands on the ball early on. Dragons to win and by more than 7. Sorry ulster.

I should clarify by 'Dragons to lose' i meant i think it is the Dragons game to lose as opposed to thinking they will lose.

I won't get to see Nicola again!
She'll forget me!

Conor Carey promised a run out in this match by Brian McLaughin but sustained a mild concussion in training. Inside word and all

Gutted

Aye apparently Paddy Mac took a knock last week therefore not considered.

So - missing 9 players to RWC, 5 senior players injured (iHumph, Payne, Cave, Black, McAllister) and one Academy player out. Not counting Carey, that's 14 full-time contract players missing out of a squad of 32.

I'm glad Marshall and Jackson are getting a run out - Macklin as well. We really are trusting in our talented youngsters. We do have enough talent in the backs and experience in the forwards to win this one, but I'm not sure it'll happen.

But as I've said before, I'm happy to take some knocks this season as our youngsters find their feet. We showed consistency with our first team last season, and now it's time to strengthen the "second tier" of those guys competing to start.

i got a feeling that we will lose, however i view this as a game we should be aiming to win even with our losses

It's Ian Whittens 50th cap tonight. The more I think about it, the more I think this game is massive for us. A defeat would not be the end of the world but a win would give us a lot of momentum and confidence.

Alyn not blonde sticky Nikki who sits in the Hazell stand is it

SUFTUM!

I still read that as an acronym for an insult at first glance!

Game's on and there are no comments, what's going on?


Spence off, bit harsh I think. Definitely a penalty, but didn't look all that dangerous.

And a soft try through a gaping Nevin Spence shaped hole as I type. Well taken by Dragons, the knew what they were doing there.

13 - 3

Missed pen from Jackson... 13 - 3 still

Awful skills by both sides. Lots of knock ons, etc. It's almost like first game of the season.

I thought Ulster were unlucky with the yellow card. Yes it was a bit high, but not a sin bin IMO.

It was wrong, but not sinful

Well done by Jackson, glad to see that go over. He's so young looking any time he misses I want to give him a hug and tell him it'll be ok!

16 - 6

Ulster need to regroup at half time, looking very shaky.

Can we turn this around? I don't think so. We've played very poorly and in terms of the players we look to to get us back in a game or when we're struggling- well none of them are on the pitch.

Talking about the players that are there, they haven't fronted up. McLaughlin will be furious with them.

Notch we made a good start but the handling errors and indiscipline have killed us. We're offside at nearly every ruck.

It's very frustrating to watch .

roddersm wrote:It's very frustrating to watch .

You're not wrong there. But I'm watching with the sound down while listening to the Ospreys V Connacht match, so I'm a little confused!

Yeah, thats the way it goes sometimes though rodders. Sometimes you have to just accept it as a fan. The players- don't. Time to step it up a level in the pack!

Jebus, but Marshall butchered that simple catch!

Unbelievably bad communication from Patterson there. Wannenburg puts his hands on the ball, looks to the referee to see if he's allowed to play it, Patterson gives a penalty with no warning. How do people like him become referees at such a high level?

roddersm wrote:Notch we made a good start but the handling errors and indiscipline have killed us. We're offside at nearly every ruck.

It's very frustrating to watch .

Ah it's alright on the offsides. You haven't been pinged yet for it have you?

Much better than our last game here. Atmosphere and performance.

Agree JmD. No ruck was called there. Wannenburg hasnt been bad for us imo. Dreadful performance from Ulster and big questions over certain players.

I like the Dragons. I dont rate them as a brilliant team but they work as hard as any other team and by God they deserve what they get. Ulster need a boot up the ass. THe physicality is quite frankly appaling and as much as i am not criticising Henry directly (he is probably the most natural leader we have at the minute) he is miles away from the requisite standard of leadership imo. We are hamstrung by the loss of Pienaar and iHumph but more importantly Muller. Will wait until the final score to make a summation but by God am i depressed

Only scrum penalty has come against Fitzpatrick despite the last three 3 scrums being the only ones that have looked to have any superiority. That said i dont think Paterson has been that bad at all and certainly not significantly contributory to the result.

Risca Rev wrote:

roddersm wrote:Notch we made a good start but the handling errors and indiscipline have killed us. We're offside at nearly every ruck.

It's very frustrating to watch .

Ah it's alright on the offsides. You haven't been pinged yet for it have you?

Much better than our last game here. Atmosphere and performance.

About 4 times i reckon Rev.

Fair enough Notch. Can't say I could see it too much what the ref was giving.

All about the W tonight. Maybe people will appreciate how tricky a place Rodney Parade is to visit now?

1. Fitzpatrick- bit meh. He isnt a LH and unfortunately we are hamstrung here with injury. Looked better with Macklin mind you
2. Brady- Did ok. Couple of dodgy throws but was solid. Probably needed to rest Kyriacou tonight but i would bring him back
3. Cronin- Works as hard as anyone but not really competent enough consistently imo
4. Stevenson- Anonymous. Barker in
5. Tuohy- Hate to agree with Andy Ward but less time in analysis and more in the gym/training please
6. Wannenburg- I thought he was ok. The effort was there. Looked a lot better but lacked support

7. Faloon- gave away a penalty or two and won a penalty or two. Should be kept imo but isnt near cute enough as regards where he gives away penalties
8. Henry- Not a real leader sadly. You can see he is trying but some horrendous knock ons and some intelligent play intermingled. I recall when he was captain previously. He was always in the refs ear just chatting. Miss that.
9. Marshall- abysmal. To think that a not small percentage of Ulster fans preferred him to Pienaar at this time last season is amazing
10. Jackson- Its all learning for him. Is he enough of a talker at 10? Most 10's seem a lot more vocal. It will come with confidence hopefully. He has the skills
11. Whitten- Time for Gaston imo. He isnt a winger. An honest effort and deserves to be in and around the squad.
12. Marshall- Some poor passing when he seemed to be thinking 1/2 yard deeper than the runners. Still made linebreaks and looks like he is aware of support (however lacking) when he makes it. Would love to see him consistently outside Pienaar/iHumph
13. Spence- As poor as he has been since his breakthrough. Idiotic in the first half and i would impress the fact his binning cost us 10 points in a 13 point game. Offloading doesnt come natural to him and this should be his main area to work on.
14. Gilroy- Looks to have improved in the tackle but some uncharacteristic handling errors. That we dont really give him a chance in space is an indictment of our poor play.
15. D'arcy- Looked our only player capable of taking a high ball but no real chance in open play. A must in the 22 for me. Still not great tonight.


Barker was a massive improvement
Diack was decent but he really needs to be in for Henry or Wannenburg
Porter (notable balls ups aside looks a much better prospect than Marshall/ cant he kick aswell?)
Gaston didnt really leave an impression on me
Macklin was a big positive. How the ref failed to award our scrum after his arrival was baffling. He was very good and i say that as someone who wasnt previously convinced.


Congrats Dragons. Well deserved!

Just got it, happy with the win. Good atmosphere and Chavez made a tidy start, not just a couple of good runs but he was very committed and got up after a few late and high tackles.

Toveys kicking was a joy to watch n Coombes gets better with every game.

Well done Dragons.

From an Ulster perspective you know what worried me about that performance?.... Nothing. Not a thing.

Send the young guys out there and let them play. They'll feck up and feck up again and eventually they'll learn. There's bags of talent there but there are no short cuts to the top. Throw them to the wolves and let them learn the hard way and in two or three seasons we'll have a great side.

We were far better when Porter came on. Paul Marshall was pretty poor tonight so I'd go with Porter next time out as his service is miles better.

Well done the Dragons.

Pretty poor from Ulster. Handling was terrible from both teams at the start and then the Dragons improved and we didn't.

Still, those youngsters in our backline could/should be exciting in a couple of years?

DRAGONONPARADE wrote:Alyn not blonde sticky Nikki who sits in the Hazell stand is it

Erm yes she's blonde, I met her at the last Dragons game, she seemed really nice to talk to

Well done Dragons, a great win, sadly i missed it as i was at the Liberty and our game got moved from sunday.

Great weather but terrible handling
Great fans but terrible teams
Ref not great but assistants terrible.
Ulster great potential but terrible discipline
Great kicking from Tovey deservedly won a terrible game.

Alyn never met the lady but she does sound nice

MrsP wrote:Still, those youngsters in our backline could/should be exciting in a couple of years?

Yeah unfortunately you can't have it both ways. We either wrap the young guys in cotton wool or we send them out there and be patient. There was plenty of skill and endevour from the likes of Jackson, Marshall and Gilroy but the execution was poor and there were far too many forced passes.

It's painful viewing at times but I think we'll reap the benefits for these games down the line.

it was a poor game IMO,

from the dragons perspectice chavhanga looks here to play rugby rather than pick up his pay check,

i was impressed with Nathan Buck on the tight head he was solid all game, although second half when the ulster replacement tight head came on he changed the scrum contest,

we still lack a ball carrier in the midfield, ash smith showed his commitment for the cause once again and riley had one of his better games in the jersey,

coombs is another guy whos work rate is second to none-just a shame hes not a bigger ball carrier otherwise i think he could establish himself himself in the first xv when everyones fit

Fair point rodders and mrsP. We have to get these guys blooded now. The main disappointments were the more experienced players. The 2nd rows and Paul Marshall were very poor.

Porter has to get ahead of Marshall now. He just has to. He's a better scrumhalf, thats the long and short of it.

Yep pretty much. You cant fault Marshalls effort but the pick up in our play with Porter was stark. Marshall takes far too much out of the attack at each ruck cutting down space. For me he is an impact player. I still think our pack need a beasting about their physicality

Notch wrote:Porter has to get ahead of Marshall now. He just has to. He's a better scrumhalf, thats the long and short of it.

The long, short and middle Notch. Miles better.

I only saw a bit of the game last night, but it sounds like we're still struggling badly. Don't know if I have the stomach to watch it all on iplayer.

Still, I'd be hopeful that we'll feel the benefits of these painful lessons during the Six Nations, when it's a markedly less callow Jackson and Marshall that we need to rely on.

The issue is that the pack is letting us down. There's no excuses for Wannenburg, Tuohy, Brady and so on.