haka

Does it awe you?

Does it bore you?

Does this short and intriguing dance deserve any respect when any reaction apart from irb-sanctioned protocol is not respected by the defendants of the haka?

Personally I'd like it to stay, it's a quirky selling point of the game.

I would however like the irb to stop controlling opposition reactions.

What would be your reaction if you faced this little piece of rugby heritage?

What funny reactions can you think of that would be well worth the inevitable irb fine?

Clicking your fingers to the beat?
Pretending to look at your watch?
Overacting being scared?

for everytime a haka is performed somewhere on the internet a thread like this appears.

The haka is the new gavin henson

I assume you're on about the All Blacks Haka?

Does it awe you? Not exactly "awe" but I enjoy it.

Does it bore you? Not at all.

Does this short and intriguing dance deserve any respect when any reaction apart from irb-sanctioned protocol is not respected by the defendants of the haka? Yes.

What would be your reaction if you faced this little piece of rugby heritage? Just stand there and watch it, soak up the atmosphere.

What funny reactions can you think of that would be well worth the inevitable irb fine? There shouldn't be a "funny" reaction. Just leave it be, it's not like it goes on for ages, and the crowd find it entertaining.

I see you point, well it's probably best not to repeat any subject that has ever been discussed on the internet before.

It's cool and I enjoy it.

Do you believe there should be written limitations on acceptable response?

iso wrote:Do you believe there should be written limitations on acceptable response?

no

why is everyone so intent on how to respond?

I am sure most players find it a source of either motivation or intimidation, depending on the individual.

biltongbek wrote:why is everyone so intent on how to respond?

because any response is over scrutinised in light of previous complaints

No issue with the Haka.

It's reflective of maori history & tradition, if they want to do it, let them.

Anyway... Isn't the Ke Mate the traditional one that was used to be performed... where the current one was specifically "invented" about 15 years ago for the AB team?

I think the 'ka mate' in name is still performed by the ABs but it has been updated greatly. The contention was the addition of the 'throat-slit' action which has ambigious interpretation.

I like it, but teams should be able to face it as they wish whilst at the same time respecting it. like what France did in the last WC

its an honour to face it as a international rugby player.

Does it give them an edge, I don't know, but long may it continue.

iso wrote:

biltongbek wrote:why is everyone so intent on how to respond?

because any response is over scrutinised in light of previous complaints

Perhaps because the haka is criticised and scrutinized itself continiously?

iso wrote:I think the 'ka mate' in name is still performed by the ABs but it has been updated greatly. The contention was the addition of the 'throat-slit' action which has ambigious interpretation.

The "throat slit" is done in Kapa o Ponga, the new (in the last 5 years) haka written especially for the All Blacks. Ka mate was written sometime in the mid 19th century by the Maori chief Te Rauparaha, which describes his escape from enemies.

I like the Haka. I think the game would be a poorer place without it. It also seems to me that if opposition teams aren't able to handle it by now then that is surely down to some psychological deficiency on their part.

Kiwireddevil wrote:

iso wrote:I think the 'ka mate' in name is still performed by the ABs but it has been updated greatly. The contention was the addition of the 'throat-slit' action which has ambigious interpretation.

The "throat slit" is done in Kapa o Ponga, the new (in the last 5 years) haka written especially for the All Blacks. Ka mate was written sometime in the mid 19th century by the Maori chief Te Rauparaha, which describes his escape from enemies.

What is the current AB haka called?

I enjoy the Haka, it is a great spectacle, but I do sometimes feel it suffers from over-exposure.

That said, teams should be allowed to respond (within reason). Maybe the Welsh team could have a brawl with some McD's bouncers? That would be inspirational!

Kiwi - what was the one they did against France last week? That appeared to be an elongated one.

iso wrote:
Does it awe you?

Does it bore you?

Does this short and intriguing dance deserve any respect when any reaction apart from irb-sanctioned protocol is not respected by the defendants of the haka?

What would be your reaction if you faced this little piece of rugby heritage?

Yes, no, yes and

What amuses me is the fella gurning at the teams as they walk on. Sometimes they get so carried away pulling faces they miss their cue to start blowing whatever piece of flotsam they've decided is an instrument that day. Ruins the effect somewhat.

I wonder in 2015 if we'll have a peed Chav haranguing teams as they walk on.

Rollmeister wrote:I enjoy the Haka, it is a great spectacle, but I do sometimes feel it suffers from over-exposure.

That said, teams should be allowed to respond (within reason). Maybe the Welsh team could have a brawl with some McD's bouncers? That would be inspirational!

Or the English team could do some Morris Dancing.... that would really hack them off.

I like the Haka, its part of rugby tradition and should remain.

iso wrote:I think the 'ka mate' in name is still performed by the ABs but it has been updated greatly. The contention was the addition of the 'throat-slit' action which has ambigious interpretation.

You see the 'throat slit' action has been constantly misinterpreted as slitting someones throat but it actually means 'drawing of breath'

In the same way as 300 redcoats climbing out of a boat and then letting loose with a round of musket fire at a bunch of maoris dancing was misinterpreted as being hostile, when it actually meant "thankyou for inviting us into your lovely hut. I don't mind if i do help myself to a coconut"

Man i love the Haka, its one of the greatest introductions to a rugby match.

Metal Tiger wrote:

iso wrote:I think the 'ka mate' in name is still performed by the ABs but it has been updated greatly. The contention was the addition of the 'throat-slit' action which has ambigious interpretation.

You see the 'throat slit' action has been constantly misinterpreted as slitting someones throat but it actually means 'drawing of breath'

In the same way as 300 redcoats climbing out of a boat and then letting loose with a round of musket fire at a bunch of maoris dancing was misinterpreted as being hostile, when it actually meant "thankyou for inviting us into your lovely hut. I don't mind if i do help myself to a coconut"

Butlins has certainly changed since I was a boy.

eirebilly wrote:Man i love the Haka, its one of the greatest introductions to a rugby match.

Yeah, I love it so much I think it should be extended to other sports: Cricket; Synchronised Swimming; Polo, etc, etc.

iso wrote:

Kiwireddevil wrote:

iso wrote:I think the 'ka mate' in name is still performed by the ABs but it has been updated greatly. The contention was the addition of the 'throat-slit' action which has ambigious interpretation.

The "throat slit" is done in Kapa o Ponga, the new (in the last 5 years) haka written especially for the All Blacks. Ka mate was written sometime in the mid 19th century by the Maori chief Te Rauparaha, which describes his escape from enemies.

What is the current AB haka called?

There are two - they do either Ka Mate or Kapa o Ponga depending on which one they feel like on the day.

Cari wrote:Kiwi - what was the one they did against France last week? That appeared to be an elongated one.

They did Kapa o Ponga vs France, and Ka Mate vs Tonga and Japan

The Haka is great and should stay, I do think that they should let teams respond though rather than throwing the toys out of the pram as they did in Wales a couple of years ago refusing to perform the haka on the pitch because the welsh wanted to respond with Hen Wlad as had been done in 1905.

I enjoy the Haka. No matter where anyone comes from, it is still part of our shared Rugby heritage. Its great fun, along with the similar pre-match spectacles from Tonga, Fiji and Samoa. What's not to like?

I don't like the alternative Haka with the throat cutting gesture. Where I grew up, and in many places around the world where I served, if someone did that in any walk of life the only recourse is to cut the guys balls off before he got yours.

Carpe Diem wrote:I wonder in 2015 if we'll have a peed Chav haranguing teams as they walk on.

When teams run out in 2015, we will have someone run in the locker room, and loot and burn all their belongings.

i think the haka is quality i like watching the haka before games..

doctor_grey wrote:

Carpe Diem wrote:I wonder in 2015 if we'll have a peed Chav haranguing teams as they walk on.

When teams run out in 2015, we will have someone run in the locker room, and loot and burn all their belongings.

Brilliant!

In response to this English welcome, players relegated to the bench will undoubtably sign a holiday visa application in the hope of representing England's run on team in time for the 6N.

I love the Ka Mate haka (first used c.1906), and have no problem with it, although I do have an issue with the IRB sticking their oar in and saying the opposition have to stand still and face it. When Tonga Fiji or Samoa play New Zealand will they toss a coin to see who goes first, because under the stand still rule they obviously can't do a their own challenge back..

What annoys me a little is to say the Haka is traditional and then have a new one (Kapa Pango) written especially for the All Blacks rugby. (That is a bit like the Orchestra coming on stage at the Last Night of the Proms and playing the latest X-factor piece of crap instead of Elgar!)

Keep it traditional, do Ka Mate.

Haka is the tradition, there are many different Hakas. It's a living culture and a living tradition.

Whether it's Kapa or Ka Mate, it's still traditional.

Move on.

The English response would be to invite them over for a cup of tea, Pims or a beer depending on the kick off time.

Obviously if it's an evening KO then also the traditional pub fight after 10 pints of stella.

best ever response was when the thin red line refused to move at the millenium,

pure theatre, challenge laid down and taken.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fYIUdVNFgU

The Kapa o Ponga version against France was spine tingling. They tend to bring out that version when they think the opposition has a good chance of beating them. Most teams for that reason get to see the Ka Mate haka.

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:The Kapa o Ponga version against France was spine tingling. They tend to bring out that version when they think the opposition has a good chance of beating them. Most teams for that reason get to see the Ka Mate haka.

I will ask Biltong to statistically represent which haka has been used in each of the RWC games when they were knoced out just to see how reliable their theory is

Well it´s only been around 5 years mate so that´s only one possible World Cup exit when they might have performed the wrong one.

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:Well it´s only been around 5 years mate so that´s only one possible World Cup exit when they might have performed the wrong one.

The Haka shows that New Zealand has talent or are strictly ballroom or something.

It's certainly over-hyped compared with the amateur days.

Response?

I liked Campo playing kickie-catchy near the corner flag.
And the eyeballing of various props and hookers from about 30cm.

Realistically I'd like to see teams showing respect from the 22m line.

Then at least most of the crowd can see the Girls Aloud wannabes strut their stuff.

Alternatively of course the could drop the choreography and have the opposition stand on the 10m line...

When I was a kid, there was nothing more that I loved than watching the mighty All Blacks haka. These were the days of the five nations, before a tri nations existed, I think before structured Autumn Internationals also. I would have been lucky to see more than one haka a year so there was an aura and a rarity around it.

I thought that the Welsh response a few years ago was great and I loved it when the kiwi players of Munster did their own haka in response to the All Blacks. I always watch when Fiji, Samoa or Tonga do their haka, especially against the All Blacks.

Now with the advent of satellite tv, tours, tournaments and exhibition matches, I probably see about 10 All Black hakas a year if I can be bothered to watch so there is no aura and it has become a little over exposed.

If I'm honest I also think that it is performed in a very indulgent, self-important way. Look at me, you must respect me. I think that some of the All Black authorities and players have been a bit too precious about it by giving instructions on how to respond and issuing greivances at perceived slights.

It would be sad to see it go away but I don't like what it has become in the last five or 10 years.

I must admit watching all the games I am getting hacked off by 4 sets of Haka's, at least after this weekend there will only be one left in the competition.

I dont mind watching the Haka being performed.But why do teams have to stand and watch?, why can the not just listen or be warming up themselves.

After all isn't that what the Abs are doing, Getting themselves motivated before the game even starts.

Why do teams have to form a line and listen to the opposition national anthem? why can't they wait in the dressing room until theirs is played?

Why do we all have to stand in solemn silence and observe a minutes silence? why can't we clean the bbq and hum the Dad's Army theme instead?

Why is there always a sale on boxing day?

Why is valentines day always February 14?

Why do the English always have to whinge about the Haka? when everyone else just behaves with dignity?

TheGreyGhost wrote:Why do the English always have to whinge about the Haka? when everyone else just behaves with dignity?

As the self appointed representative of the "English"...we don't. It's just some us, unfortunately, speak without asking permission first. They're welcome their opinion of course but they're still wrong

Maybe you don't realise Hammer because you are inside looking out, as it were. But whenever NZ are about to tour England, or vice versa, we let out a collective sigh and wait for the fuming outraged articles to appear in various media about the scourge of the Haka.

Everywhere else, it's just a complete non issue.

Except when the English make a stink, the Welsh get all excited and try to be more upset, I guess to prove they're just as important and not an insignificant add on to England really.

When you say "English" do you mean the media and idiots on forums? If so we kicked them out and they don't count any more.

To be honest I don't know any English people really into rugby (other than league). Had few arguments with a couple Welsh guys over the PI poaching thing. The biggest argument I've ever had on the issue was with a kiwi He kept telling me that the All Blacks cherry picked the best from the islands. It was quite strange (although he wasn't into rugby and a bit of dick)

TheGreyGhost wrote:Maybe you don't realise Hammer because you are inside looking out, as it were. But whenever NZ are about to tour England, or vice versa, we let out a collective sigh and wait for the fuming outraged articles to appear in various media about the scourge of the Haka.

Everywhere else, it's just a complete non issue.

Except when the English make a stink, the Welsh get all excited and try to be more upset, I guess to prove they're just as important and not an insignificant add on to England really.

Laughable. You demand dignity for the sacred All blacks yet personally you don't have an ounce of respect and exhibit all the traits of a die hard hypocritical bigot

Ghost is just a WUM. When he's being serious he's fine