Pakistan spot fixing trial

First topic message reminder :

The final spot fixing trial got underway the other day, and the cases of amir asif and butt.

however another 3 names have been brought up today, and accused of spot fixing.. these players are.

Kamran Akmal
Umar Akmal
Wahab Riaz.

Regardless, they've now been sentenced and if that isn't a big enough deterrent for other would-be cheats then I don't know what is.

Also, good to see that the judge ruled that the News of the World wouldn't be getting their money back, as they got what they bargained for. Good man!

eirebilly wrote:Does anyone know where they will serve their time?

Broadmoor?

This has just been tweeted - don't know how true it is...

"Judge will correct sentence on AMIR. Aged 19, he cannot be jailed - he'll be detained at young offenders institution."

If so, I'm amazed. Why can't he be jailed at 19? Old enough to cheat, old enough to do time

Fists of Fury wrote:

eirebilly wrote:Does anyone know where they will serve their time?

Broadmoor?

And whether or not they will have to leave the prison yard for bad light

I saw that too, Davie.

Seems ridiculous - 19 is an adult, stick him in jail.

this whole thing is pathetic. The sentences are pathetic.

Wandsworth most likely? Amir will be in a young offenders unit as he's only 19.

Great sentences by the judge. Corruption is rife in the game of cricket, this maybe a dark day but will hopefully become a future deterrent.

Butt had a god given gift and he's thrown it away... Psychologically I hope he can recover but he will have to live with this mistake for the rest of his life.

cricketfan90 wrote:this whole thing is pathetic. The sentences are pathetic.

Agreed.What would have been your sentences mate?

5 years for Majeed
5 years for Butt and Asif
3 years for Amir

cricketfan90 wrote:5 years for Majeed
5 years for Butt and Asif
3 years for Amir

Other than Majeeed- what harm can the other three do to the general public? I think the sentences are reasonable.

Amir was only 18, had limited knowledge of the world and has beeen sent down after being misled by his so called leaders. It's sad and tragic for such a wonderfully gifted player

its not just cricket though it is

its corruption, and if it was any other case away from sport, then there would be harsher punishments!

All Time Great wrote:Wandsworth most likely? Amir will be in a young offenders unit as he's only 19.

Great sentences by the judge. Corruption is rife in the game of cricket, this maybe a dark day but will hopefully become a future deterrent.

Butt had a god given gift and he's thrown it away... Psychologically I hope he can recover but he will have to live with this mistake for the rest of his life.

What?

i honestly couldnt care less about their talent.

Like i said its corrutpion, if it was a case away from sport it would be harsher punishments, i completely disagree with the punishments and to be honest i find it patheitc and spineless.

I persoanlly think the sentences are fair. Long enough to make an impact and act as a deterrent to anyone else thinking of spot fixing. And Asif and Butt's playing careers are over aswell, so we know they own't be back again.

cricketfan90 wrote:its not just cricket though it is

its corruption, and if it was any other case away from sport, then there would be harsher punishments!

This is like the drug dealer vs druggie debate.

You have to get rid of the main players (ie the agents who create the avenues to corrupt the spot market), as opposed to the smaller players who are enlightened by greed.

I think the sentences given out were decent, and shows the British Justice system is one of the best in the world.

Re: Corruption in sport. The main players need to be driven out of the game with the harshest sentences possible.

Re: Cricket players. Losing the right to play the game they love, is one hell of a (and deserved) sentence already.

shankythebiggestengfan wrote:

All Time Great wrote:Wandsworth most likely? Amir will be in a young offenders unit as he's only 19.

Great sentences by the judge. Corruption is rife in the game of cricket, this maybe a dark day but will hopefully become a future deterrent.

Butt had a god given gift and he's thrown it away... Psychologically I hope he can recover but he will have to live with this mistake for the rest of his life.

What?

To play cricket at the highest level and lead his country at a young age...

he wasnt that young, and he wasnt a great batsmen.

[quote="All Time Great"]

cricketfan90 wrote:5 years for Majeed
5 years for Butt and Asif
3 years for Amir

Other than Majeeed- what harm can the other three do to the general public? I think the sentences are reasonable.

Amir was only 18, had limited knowledge of the world and has beeen sent down after being misled by his so called leaders. It's sad and tragic for such a wonderfully gifted player[/q

Agreed, the sentence's seem fair to me. Fraud, or money crimes in this country always seem to get longer sentence's than (to me anyway), other crimes. These convictions will definitely make other would-be cheats think twice now. Previously, IMO, some thought, that if caught they might just be banned for a while. NOT NOW!!. But then, greed is a funny thing.

Does anyone know why they were tried here in the UK rather then in Pakistan?

I know the fixing 'incidents' were over here, but surely it would of been better to do the legal/penal stuff in their own country.

TM Moot wrote:Does anyone know why they were tried here in the UK rather then in Pakistan?

I know the fixing 'incidents' were over here, but surely it would of been better to do the legal/penal stuff in their own country.

Because the crime was committed in the UK and conducted by a UK national.

Amir got less because he 'had the courage to plead gulity'

thats not courage its someone telling the truth!

[quote="TM Moot"]Does anyone know why they were tried here in the UK rather then in Pakistan?

I know the fixing 'incidents' were over here, but surely it would of been better to do the legal/penal stuff in their own country.[/quot

They would never have gone to court in Pakistan, look at the reaction's of the whole PCB and Pakistani public at the time of the incident. Total Denial!!

Am I missing something here?
So many are saying that these sentences are a deterrent, could you possibly explain how 12 months in jail for getting £70,000 for cheating will deter anyone, especially as none of the unrecovered money will get paid back and no money from other cheating exploits will ever be brought to light?

I'm perfectly willing to serve a full 12 months in jail, not just the six months off for good behavior BS that happens in our justice system, for £70,000, heck I'd do 3 years for £70,000.

The entire British justice system is a farce and it's such a common thing nowadays that no-one even seems to notice it

The sentences are broadly similar to what people committing similar £ amounts of fraud, so fair I guess. Remember that they've also been banned from the sport for 5 or more years, which in Butt and Asif's cases is probably career ending (as it should be).

By comparison Ryan Tandy, the Aussie league player who was found guilty of deliberately conceding a penalty in front of the posts to spot-fix the "1st scoring play" betting option in an NRL match got a life ban from RL, and a $2500 (~£1500) fine last month. So I'm a bit disappointed in the Aussie courts.

ReallyReal wrote:Am I missing something here?
So many are saying that these sentences are a deterrent, could you possibly explain how 12 months in jail for getting £70,000 for cheating will deter anyone, especially as none of the unrecovered money will get paid back and no money from other cheating exploits will ever be brought to light?

I'm perfectly willing to serve a full 12 months in jail, not just the six months off for good behavior BS that happens in our justice system, for £70,000, heck I'd do 3 years for £70,000.

The entire British justice system is a farce and it's such a common thing nowadays that no-one even seems to notice it

You'd do 3 years for 70 grand?? I think you might be the only one who would.

How much income would you lose? Over 3 years, it would probably equal £70k at least for most (although admittedly the £70k is tax free), far more for international sportsmen. Then factor in that your career has pretty much gone, and you've missed out on three years in which you could re-train. So that's more money lost in the future.

And that's just looking at the financial impact. You're being imprisoned in a foreign country, far away from your family. How many visits do you think Mohammed Amir will be getting?

ReallyReal wrote:Am I missing something here?
So many are saying that these sentences are a deterrent, could you possibly explain how 12 months in jail for getting £70,000 for cheating will deter anyone, especially as none of the unrecovered money will get paid back and no money from other cheating exploits will ever be brought to light?

I'm perfectly willing to serve a full 12 months in jail, not just the six months off for good behavior BS that happens in our justice system, for £70,000, heck I'd do 3 years for £70,000.

The entire British justice system is a farce and it's such a common thing nowadays that no-one even seems to notice it

Sorry, but IMO, you are missing something here. It will definitely be a deterrent. Can you not imagine just how these criminals (and families), will fill for the rest of their lives. To be treated like superstars in their own countries, and then be ridiculed for the rest of their lives. Not to be able to play professional cricket, something they LOVE. As previously posted by someone, Fists, i think, they probably will still be able to make money eventually, ie biographies, dodgy tv shows etc, but you have to ask yourself, WHAT would you prefer.

Whilst I hate cheaters, I hope Amir can learn from he mistake and come back stronger. Yes, I believe he should be allowed to play International cricket again. He was hoodwinked by Majeed and Butt. It was clear than Amir's lack of education and poor background was the reason why he was targeted.

If he never played International cricket again, it's a very sad day.

A Pakistani international might just about make £70,000 after taxes, but what about all the other payments he's received, is anyone really naive enough to think that this was his first paycheck?
...and those tv shows and book deals will now be far more valuable too.

As for seventy grand for three years, the average British wage is about a third of that £70,000 per year, add on all the taxes taken and £70,000 would take well over 4 years to earn for those on an average wage, I earn not much over half the average wage (minimum wage), so to legally get £70,000 after taxes would take me quite a few years.
A 3 year stretch would be hard work, but if someone offered me the deal I'd seriously consider it, if I was offered £70,000 for a year inside, I'd sign up immediately and if I knew I'd get out in 6 months, I'd wouldn't hesitate to do the time even for £10,000, in my current (virtually bust) circumstances.

It doesn't matter one jot what affect these sentences may possibly have on the cricketers futures, they may end up even richer afterall, they've committed some quite serious crimes and then lied on oath about it, they end up keeping any money that hasn't already been recovered and you expect me to believe that these are FAIR sentences, no way.

The judge's full verdict can be found here

On teh subject of recovering the NOTW £150k the judge said they got what they bargained for so could no claim back the money, now given Majeed had already said the price to fix a test match was $1m and the court proved there was contact between Majeed and the players long before the Lords test, you have to assume this was not the only match that was a victim of fixing.
So, if Asif for example pockets £65k for one test and this sort of thing has been going on for a while it's anyones guess what he could have earned over time.
The question therefore is whether a one year sentence is enough of a deterent for £100k, £200k , £300k etc - if it was me and I had the chance of pocketing £300k for example and do 6 months inside, I'd be very tempted.
The only thing that woudl stop me is the love of the game and the thought of cheating the paying public and disgracing my country, but I don't believe 12 months (out in 6) and very probably most of that term in an open prison as they are clearly not a 'threat' to the public, is sufficient.....

skyeman - I should also have added that whilst what you say is true, there's every chance they'll seek asylum in UK as their safety in Pakistan cannot be guaranteed on their release

skyeman wrote:They would never have gone to court in Pakistan, look at the reaction's of the whole PCB and Pakistani public at the time of the incident. Total Denial!!

that's the problem, being banged to rights over here, just allows everyone in pakistan (PCB & joe public) to claim its all a Western conspiratory etc...

what about disgracing yourself though Grizzly? Wouldn't that enter into consideration? My opinion on this whole affair is that Asif got off lightly, but I'm certainly glad this has been done, and gone through to the end, and hopefully being shamed so publicly will have a deterrent effect.

Mad - well that comes back to the type of person you are, these players deliberately fixed events in games or games themselves for tehir own personal gain, they would have looked around the ground and seen the TV cameras, the thousands of normal working class people who scrimp and save in oder to be there, they would also have been aware they are heroes to a great many people, yet they chose this route.
It think it's clear they were not concerned at any point with disgracing themselves and clearly gave no consideration to their families future or the fact they'd be ridiculed by many.
So it boils down to whether you're blindly selfish or not....

I think it's more a case of they thought they wouldn't be caught, or ever exposed to this level of public disgrace. So in that sense I think it's a good thing they are.

I would never ever, do any amount of time in prison, in exchange for money. Not only would i miss my family too much, and not be able to get many jobs with a criminal record, but my Piles would be bloody painful in the shower blocks.

Mad for Chelsea wrote:I think it's more a case of they thought they wouldn't be caught, or ever exposed to this level of public disgrace. So in that sense I think it's a good thing they are.

Nail on the head, BINGO!!

Mad for Chelsea wrote:I think it's more a case of they thought they wouldn't be caught, or ever exposed to this level of public disgrace. So in that sense I think it's a good thing they are.

If that's the case then they are incredibly niaive, but I know 3 of them to be extremely clever so I doubt that's the case.

What struck me more was the lawyer statements after the verdicts were read out yesterday, having gone through the chirade of a court case that took 4 weeks and cost countless thousands (which I note from the Judges summary the convincted must pay), there were then a series of statements read out admitting the offences, suggesting there were more players/fixers out there and that this extends to every ICC National team. Clearly the ICC will investigate but I wouldn't hold out too much hope for them dealing with the issues, but the fact the players lied in courts for a month then immediately admitted guilt after the verdicts I find staggering...

Grizzly wrote:

Mad for Chelsea wrote:I think it's more a case of they thought they wouldn't be caught, or ever exposed to this level of public disgrace. So in that sense I think it's a good thing they are.

If that's the case then they are incredibly niaive, but I know 3 of them to be extremely clever so I doubt that's the case.

What struck me more was the lawyer statements after the verdicts were read out yesterday, having gone through the chirade of a court case that took 4 weeks and cost countless thousands (which I note from the Judges summary the convincted must pay), there were then a series of statements read out admitting the offences, suggesting there were more players/fixers out there and that this extends to every ICC National team. Clearly the ICC will investigate but I wouldn't hold out too much hope for them dealing with the issues, but the fact the players lied in courts for a month then immediately admitted guilt after the verdicts I find staggering...

I too found the lawyers statements after the guilty verdicts, to be strange. It made them look stupid, after they kept on saying that they were not guilty.
And even more strange, is that after these statements, all of the guilties family members, are now saying that their beloveds are not guilty and are going to prove their innocence.

Salman Butt and Mohammed Amir have appealed the length of their sentences..

:facepalm, these guys will appeal anything, Amir has only got 6 months!

Appeal has been rejected. Shame they can't INCREASE the sentences for an unsuccessful appeal

Good, and yes Dave I agree.

"The cricketers betrayed their team, their country, the sport that had given them their distinction and all the world followers of the game," the judge said. "The reality is that all the enjoyment of watching cricket will be destroyed if this was allowed to continue."

The only sensible decision.

Just one thing i do not understand is that Pakistan have left out Riaz, because they said his name came up in court, but have included Akmal, whose name also came up. Bizarre!

cricketfan90 wrote:Salman Butt and Mohammed Amir have appealed the length of their sentences..

:facepalm, these guys will appeal anything, Amir has only got 6 months!

They rpobably assume the British legal system works the smae way the PCB does. Offer them a cut and all is forgiven.

butt and asif's appeals against their prison sentences have been rejected

GOOD