Tiger Woods

I thought as we have not had thread on him for some time I would start one:

Watched his game on Sky last night, and what surprised me is, he is still so wayward of the tee, and I would say lost his touch around the green on last nights veiwing.

Question:

Who thinks he will make the cut??
Who thinks a top 25 finish??
Who thinks a top 10 finish??
Who thinks he might still win it??

My money would be to 10 finish

OP I didn't see it, but have read an interview he gave after the round. He said the putting was hopeless and he can't putt worse than that. He is however well pleased with most of his shot making (Didn't mention the big stick) he reckons he left a load of shots out there on the greens.

So chances are that if he can drop a few putts in today, he'll make the cut and as you say, could well be in contention. I'm of the opinion though, that maybe Mr Woods is waning. Shame as i always loved to see him focused and scaring the pants off everyone else. The rest have now discounted him from their thoughts I think, and he hasn't the same aura about him, which just makes him another very, very good golfer with the same chance as the rest

I'm not kidding when I say this but I think that almost everyone could tell him what he's doing wrong but he's too beligerant or thick to listen and apply advice.

You don't go from being an almost peerless golfer to a journeyman in the space of a few years so it's pretty clear to see that his problem is technical but largely mental.

His putting was laughable and tentative, while his chipping and driving also showed no signs of improvement.

How much longer are we going to hear that he is rusty and just needs to get back into it? I think he needs a stint in a mental hospital.

If any player took a month or two off and came back and said they were rusty after an average round then most people would say yeah, well you would be of course.

Super

I would not back against him, his determination and will power got him to the top of the game and sustained him there, even when his game was not on song, I believe he will climb back to those heights, and win a lot more majors.

Diggers wrote:If any player took a month or two off and came back and said they were rusty after an average round then most people would say yeah, well you would be of course.

I think it's that he's been wheeling out that excuse for two years. It's wearing a bit thin.

Maybe but yesterday was a perfectly valid time to use it. Have a go at him if he's played a couple of events and still playing badly, but doing it after his first round back is pretty lame.

He will miss the cut.

I think he's finished, and by this time next will have announced his retirement from competitive golf.

I hope I'm wrong though.

You would think he had shot an 83 not a 73. It was clearly playing quite tough yesterday, 67 is a relatively high score for a lead in a PGA event.

Diggers wrote:Maybe but yesterday was a perfectly valid time to use it. Have a go at him if he's played a couple of events and still playing badly, but doing it after his first round back is pretty lame.

I think it's just the style of his interviews which are so wooden that annoys me. Every answer is so sanitised and dreary.

I can just imagine him at home.

Well, I made spaghetti for tea tonight, I think I prepared it well, but it's been a while since I made it so I made a few errors out there in the kitchen. There's some things I need to work on, like the timing of the pasta and the final touches to the presentation, but I'll continue to work hard and hopefully next time I'll do better, appreciate it."

YAWWWWWWWWWWWNNNNNNNNNN

Hes going to be rusty tournament play wise, but he said before the tournament that hes been totally fit for months and all hes done for the month or so hes had off is play lots of rounds sometimes even 45 holes a day.

So in some respects I expected him to be a bit better than what he showed yesterday, especially with the flat stick.

He has to be worried about the state of his game which is something he would not have had to do for more than a month or so before December 2009. Not knowing how to play well again is a major worry for most gofers and something which can really cause frustration to set in.

His short game seemed very clumsy on the holes I watched last night, but part of that could have been the very wet conditions and the change of pace on the greens.

I think tiger has two options

1) Use stack and tilt to protect his knee and potentially play to 45 and some senior tour golf. Unfortunately not adding to his major totals and following in the form footsteps of david duval.

2) get himself a proper swing from butch, or someone else, win a few majors but sadly have to retire at 40 with a bad limp and use a stick by 55.

Diggers

I did not think he played all that bad, just that he did not know if the ball was going left or right of the tee, and the rough was wet and punishing, so he was on occasions having to lay up with his 2nd shot, so you would then expect Tiger to then chip it stone dead if it did not go in, but he was leaving it 12 to 20 ft from the hole, and putting a lot of pressure on his putting.

I wouldnt care much about his driving, he must have won 8 of his majors where he has hit it of teh course a few times.

BUT - his puttig was always phenominal, he never missed, ever! and to see him struggle like that, so tentative and almost clueless, is a worry.

I have seen good players, internationals, county champions and club champions have teh same issues, and they have never been able to fix it, not because it's a technical issue, but because it is mental; and I think that is where Woods' problems lie, mentally!

Very odd watching him yesterday, he was getting way to steep on the ball evidenced by the huge amount of turf he took with the 3 wood off the tee and very much across the line with his long irons, as shown by his divots pointing way left with anything more than a 6iron.

No doubt he still has flaws, in his swing but mentally he just doesn't seem there at all when he's playing the shots. He needs to get back to palying regularly and avoid the excuses by just getting on with it now.

Mac your option 1 is what he's already doing, thats why he's working with Foley to address this and add certain elements of S&T to his game, the most notable points you can see when looking at him is the loaded left side at address, the straightening of the right leg in the back swing and the way he tries to maintain his chest centered over the ball through out his swing, the problem is he is still to steep with his angle of attack even for a full on S&T swing

Mav

I know he has taken option 1, my theory still stands.

Perhaps he should switch to a belly putter?

I bet they'd suddenly become socially acceptable.

According to the pga website Tiger had 27 putts and lost 1.245 shots (101st) on the green.

If he had putted well and saved a shot then he would have scored 71 (level par)and been T37th and 4 shots off the lead.

Add in first tournament for several weeks and difficult conditions then not a disaster.

As stated his swing seems to be the main concern. The TV coverage focussed on the dip at the start of the downswing. However, if you see slow motions of Rory McIlroy he does the very same. Although Tiger also appeared to move his head backwards on the downswing which is more unusual.

In conclusion we probably need to reserve judgement until he has completed 3 or 4 tournaments.

Scottie,
Perhaps if he played more than 3 or 4 tournaments we'd find out. Part of his problem is that his schedule is that of someone who can turn excellence/brilliance on and off, but his play is nowhere near that level.
Only likely to play one more proper tournament this year (Aussie Open), plus Pres Cup and his Tiger exhibition in California, then probably nothing before San Diego. If he's not getting enough "reps" it's his own damn fault and should not be seen as an excuse for poor form.

Oddly I thought he putted quite well. He had a fair few one putts did he not? And I thought his irons were ok, some good some average.
His problem was not being able to get on a fairway, hence the need for one putt pars.

Like Dennis Pugh or not, he spoke a lot of sense re Tiger's swing on yesterday's coverage and until he fixes some of the problems he's never going to drive straight.

Odd that he's been away for so long and yet his swing looks the same as before with all the same problems. What has he been working on??

Kwini,

I totally agree. There are plenty of decent tournaments world wide till end of the year (Rory is talking about his 12 week run starting this week) and again plenty in February / March.

Tiger should commit to play a series of trournaments this year then the same again early next year to give himself the best chance of being ready for the first Major in April. Simply tell the press this is the plan, it's work in progress and the only aim is to become competative in readiness for the first Major next year.

He needs to play down his expectation therefore the press and public's expectation in order to give himself some time by taking some of the pressure off his game (I know this unlikely as he has always talked-up his game).

I don't understand why he doesn't. Perhaps he does not want to dilute the brand (already diluted so this is not a valid reason), perhaps he has other commitments (the wife has the kids so he should be able to make time), perhaps he doesn't want to let the world see where his game actually is or perhaps he is scared of playing poorly for 6 months and reducing his confidence even further.

If he remains fit, works on his game and plays sufficient tournaments I for one expect him to make a comeback. I can't see him dominate again and I can't see him even getting back to No.1, but I would not be surprised if he wins 2 or more tournaments each year including a few more Majors.

Scottie
Crunch time today really; as someone else mentioned, he's only six shots off the lead.
A 70 today would not only assure a made cut, but also propel him up the leaderboard.
But can he do it?
As for tournaments on his schedule, it's widely thought that his playing a Fall Series event is merely a quid pro quo with Couples and the Tour for assuring him a Captain's Pres Cup pick to better justify a pre-arranged trip to Australia for which he'll doubtless be handsomely rewarded.
He's reportedly playing the Fry's specifically in the context of a soon-to-be-announced sponsorship deal with Fry's (which of course also smacks of violating the verboten appearance fee rule).

Question to me is:
Does he really want to get back to his best?
or:
Does he just want to win??
All signs point to the latter.

When you have had the 2 years that Woods has had Id imagine what he is doing is setting himself targets, the first of which would be a win no doubt.
Im sure that would serve to clear a lot of doubt from his own mind and also to restoke his competitive juices to push on and maybe get closer to being the Tiger of old.

Surely rather than go for the "W" (what a wretched term) he should go for A) comfortably making a cut and (B) Putting 4 good rounds together.

Kwini,

Tiger's only mission statement to date has been to beat Jack's Major record.

The question to me is:
Does he still beleive he can (or does he still want to) win more Major's than Jack?
If yes, or even maybe, then he needs to get off the pot and play a proper schedule.
If no, then golf has merely become a source of income and something to do, little else as winning a few more pga events or even sneaking one more major is small change compared to his past honours.

ScottieD18 wrote:Kwini,

Tiger's only mission statement to date has been to beat Jack's Major record.

The question to me is:
Does he still beleive he can (or does he still want to) win more Major's than Jack?
If yes, or even maybe, then he needs to get off the pot and play a proper schedule.
If no, then golf has merely become a source of income and something to do, little else as winning a few more pga events or even sneaking one more major is small change compared to his past honours.

I dont really agree with that. 5 majors to beat Nicklaus is probably more majors than any guy on tour right now will win in a career. I think that even winning another one or two majors would be a big deal....for a start it would get the money men flocking back to him...and it would also allow him to stick two fingers up to the people who have completely written him off.

Despite the talk about being fully fit and raring to go, I think the truth is his knee is quite frankly f--cked. His knee probably can't stand up to playing week in week out, but he is not going to admit to such a big weakness so we all speculate about him picking and choosing his events.

I'm not sure his "indiscretions" and media reaction really have anything to do with his tumble down the rankings, but rather his injury.

Digs,
As reported on my thread, Tiger's estimated "brand" value for 2010 was $55M, $29M more than the next sportsman (Federer). Since then he's signed his deal with Rolex and there are reported to be other endorsements in the hopper, including presumably Fry's.
Seems the "money men" have already been flocking.

Totally agree that "winning another one or two majors would be a big deal"; but Tiger's clearly aiming higher! Remember, no-one else sees him as "any guy on tour right now" and nor does he!!

Raycastle,
Regarding his knee, probably spot on; even before this season, pundits have been wxing cautious about his body, that's it's got the wear and tear of a 45-y-o.

Kwini, does that mean if he's sponsored by Fry's he'll get as much Fry's Chocolate Cream as he wants? Not a bad sponsor. Certainly more useful than Rolex, who make quite ghastly looking old mans watches.

Surely the point is Kwini we have no idea what Tiger is aiming for. Everyone in life will reassess their goals. If he knows his body is frail he may well have accepted that Nicklaus's record is not realistic, who knows apart from Woods and his team. Its all just conjecture.

ScottieD18 wrote:Kwini,

Tiger's only mission statement to date has been to beat Jack's Major record.

The question to me is:
Does he still beleive he can (or does he still want to) win more Major's than Jack?
If yes, or even maybe, then he needs to get off the pot and play a proper schedule.
If no, then golf has merely become a source of income and something to do, little else as winning a few more pga events or even sneaking one more major is small change compared to his past honours.

Scottie

Completely agree. I think it's all about Tiger's desire. If he still truly wants to beat Jack's record, he has the strength of mind to make himself competitive again, whether he goes on to actually get the 5 majors or not. But that surely is going to mean some compromises, e.g. changing his schedule, looking after his knee, lowering expectations, going back to Butch etc.

The thing with Woods though yes he is way off at the moment but physically, technically and mentally, but and it's a big BUT if he wants it bad enough there is not a player better equiped to go out there and get it done. His technique though way off is not whats holding him back it's his head and trusting what he's doing once he does that who knows what will happen.

Not a huge woods fan or detractor but I would like him to break Jacks record for 2 reasons 1) can say I saw a lot of his history making run with my own eyes and 2) the much more important one of people not being able to live in past and regal us with why Jack is the greatest and so much more of an icon and role model blah blah blah

I still think that he is after Jacks record, if he wasnt would see no point in his comeback.

Tiger needs to feed his ego, and only winning majors will do that, funny but before his layoff I was not a Tiger fan, but now I am hoping he can get back to somewhere near his best, so I will say this only once "Your the man"

s_r,
Thought you knew that Tim Herron and your mate Shane Lowry had cornered that particular Fry's market.
Can't stand Rolex's myself; perhaps I'm not old enough?
Wasn't it John Daly who wrote the "All my exes wear Rolexes" song? So perhaps 20-something bimbos wear 'em as well?

I think the reason that even one major win would be huge is that it would mean the last big Woods story wasnt about his affairs or his divorce but about his golf.
I think that would be massively important to him. In fact if he did win another one I wouldnt be that suprised if he called it quits after doing so.

Gotta Saltman now for food! His hole in one toaay won him his body weight in ham. 17stones of ham is one load of meat!

Some of the newer Rolex's are pretty nice. The new Explorer 2 is good looking understated watch. Certainly a lot better than some of the real bling bling watches out there.

If anyone has any Rolex that they do not like I am quite happy to take them off their hands

Digs,
I would be prepared to bet that Tiger's final big story is more likely to be about his affairs than his last Major, even if he wins a dozen more!
Wonder if all his exes will get Rolexes?

You may well be right Kwini, though personally I still find it rank hypocricy how much flack he copped/contines to get compared to a lot of other guys who are guilty of the same "crime".

To be fair though Diggers, it wasn't so much the "crime", it was, to paraphrase Ronald Stanley Fletcher's Judge: He was an habitual "criminal"; sure the apparent insatiability of demand and supply was what caught the imagination, rather than just a bit of slap and tickle with, say, Kelly.

Diggers

The image that they sold the whole Tiger thing was more at fault than Tiger

Despite my hatred of Woods, none of it has ever been down to his extra-marital activity. He's just a man sausage.

kwinigolfer wrote:To be fair though Diggers, it wasn't so much the "crime", it was, to paraphrase Ronald Stanley Fletcher's Judge: He was an habitual "criminal"; sure the apparent insatiability of demand and supply was what caught the imagination, rather than just a bit of slap and tickle with, say, Kelly.

Kwini, Ive mentioned before that my other half works in PR. As far as she is concerned its pretty much a given that anyone famous who can put it about does indeed put it about, the exceptions are the ones that dont. Famous actors and sportsmen having sex with a lot of different people is hardly news these days.

Maverick wrote:Very odd watching him yesterday, he was getting way to steep on the ball evidenced by the huge amount of turf he took with the 3 wood off the tee and very much across the line with his long irons, as shown by his divots pointing way left with anything more than a 6iron.

I couldnt believe how out to in he appeared to be swinging! Surely he's hitting the outside of the ball? Certainly not the inside of it. I know Foley's swing is about everything going left after impact, like Hogan/rotary swings, but he doesnt appear to be swing in to in does he? Its kinda like an anti left swing that will go left whenever he squares the face up. Its all upper body out to in unless he uses his lower body more that he's trying to protect. I think.

68 for Tiger, not too shabby for a second round back. Honest interview afterwards. Probably stil het slaughtered for something.
Also....is it me or is Casey is basically a yank now.

Kwini, do the septics still see Woods as number one then? How myopic and insular can they be?
I suppose from their point of view golf is the only truly international sport that they play or are any good at so it hurts them that Europe are so strong.

As Digs says, not a bad showing for a second round back. But surely the Yanks must rank the likes of Watney and Johnson above Tiger these days!

Hi s_r,
I actually think that Woods is seen by media, there as well as here, as an omnipotent being that towers over sport.
Tiger attracts viewers like no other.
Tiger attracts readers like no other.
Tiger attracts . . . . need we go on??!!

It's as if there's everyday golf, which people care about for The Masters, and then towering above is Eldrick.

kwinigolfer wrote:Hi s_r,
I actually think that Woods is seen by media, there as well as here, as an omnipotent being that towers over sport.
Tiger attracts viewers like no other.
Tiger attracts readers like no other.
Tiger attracts . . . . need we go on??!!

It's as if there's everyday golf, which people care about for The Masters, and then towering above is Eldrick.

It's all a bit sad really Kwini isn't it?

I suppose what it also does is separate people who are golf fans, from those who are just Woods fans.

I cannot wait for the day when he retires, or the day where media and glory hunters treat him as they do everyone else.