Guillermo Coria

Just randomly found this video from 2005 on Youtube, and it reminded me how good Guillermo Coria actually was. Some of the rallies in this match were phenomenal! Such a shame that Coria's serve deserted him, as he could have potentially been right up there at the top for a few years - he was quite similar to Ferrer, but with the added bonus of arguably more touch and inventiveness around the court. Unfortunately, his dress sense (at least in this match) seems to have been far worse; I don't know whose idea the skin-tight top was!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HymGHfzkU4A&feature=feedrec_grec_index

He can't have been any good, this was the weak era wasn't it?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3Xsb3x9vVE&feature=related

Just found that as well...absolutely incredible tennis.

One of my favourite player. An amazing talent. I think he is the only one that inflicted a 61 v Federer in the whole of 2005...and as we can see below Fed wasn't playing badly.

2005 Tennis Masters Cup
Shanghai, China Carpet RR Federer, Roger
6-0, 1-6, 6-2 Stats

But this score reflects also his inconsistency.

Chazfazzer wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3Xsb3x9vVE&feature=related

Just found that as well...absolutely incredible tennis.

yep - 3/0 40/30 up ball for 4/0 in the fifth ....but get shocked by Nadal's stamina! The way those guys run in a fifth set with such long rallies is simply ridiculous.

Coria on Nadal after this match: “He is a beast, an animal”

Tenez wrote:

Chazfazzer wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3Xsb3x9vVE&feature=related

Just found that as well...absolutely incredible tennis.

yep - 3/0 40/30 up ball for 4/0 in the fifth ....but get shocked by Nadal's stamina! The way those guys run in a fifth set with such long rallies is simply ridiculous.

Coria on Nadal after this match: “He is a beast, an animal”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jvHRz2FBcg

http://www.atpworldtour.com/Players/Head-To-Head.aspx?pId=F324&oId=C524

Do you remember a scoreline being up 5-1 and serving for the match and losing it 7-6 in the thirds set? Can you recall the players?

laverfan wrote:

Tenez wrote:

Chazfazzer wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3Xsb3x9vVE&feature=related

Just found that as well...absolutely incredible tennis.

yep - 3/0 40/30 up ball for 4/0 in the fifth ....but get shocked by Nadal's stamina! The way those guys run in a fifth set with such long rallies is simply ridiculous.

Coria on Nadal after this match: “He is a beast, an animal”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jvHRz2FBcg

http://www.atpworldtour.com/Players/Head-To-Head.aspx?pId=F324&oId=C524

Do you remember a scoreline being up 5-1 and serving for the match and losing it 7-6 in the thirds set? Can you recall the players?

????

and no.

Tenez wrote:but get shocked by Nadal's stamina! The way those guys run in a fifth set with such long rallies is simply ridiculous.

This is the limit of your observations on the court.

Here is the second part...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qzM6_zQTzZ0

Can you identify the players and comment on their respective 'talents'?

Never liked Coria - always came over as highly arrogant and disrespecting of his fellow competitors. He was fun to watch though.
In reference to what he said about Nadal, Coria didnt like the emergence of Nadal who took his king of clay hat. Nadal arguably finished off Coria's career after those 3 final wins over him, including that infamous coming back from a double break and 40-0 in the Rome final. I think those losses really mentally affected Coria who's game started to unravel not long afterwards. But in reality, for all his ability he was another player like Rios who didnt achieve his potential...although that said Nadal didnt let him. His zenith should have been French Open 2004 and I'll never know how he lost it and why he started cramping in the 3rd set when he was a fit guy...can only think it was nerves.

Sometimes those who appear very arrogant on the outside are very brittle within...

Coria was a true talent, his shots and moving was artistry and not down to sheer power, that's why he said that of Nadal I guess...though I don;t think he meant it to say in a bad way.

That French Open wot Coria lost was the first time, in the men's, that someone had lost having held match points since Laver in, gosh, about 1850.
I know Lindsay Davenport had a championship point and lost to Venus at Wimbledon a few years back. But it's remarkable how few times this happens in a GS final. It's also fairly rare that a GS final match even goes on to another set when match point has been reached, although this happened in the epic Fed-Nad match at SW19 in 08. Imagine the drama, if heaven forbid, a USO final went to a final set tiebreak.

sirfredperry wrote: Imagine the drama, if heaven forbid, a USO final went to a final set tiebreak.

Not on Mens side, but on the Womens side...

1985 Mandalikova vs. Navaratilova 76 16 76
1981 Austin vs. Navaratilova 16 76 76

Coria was a choking talent at that...has there ever been a worse choke in a slam final than French Open 2004?
He also acknowledged in interviews that he lost to a great player in Nadal (at Beijing 05), that Nadal could hit the lines and he couldnt (at MC05).
Coria was a bad loser and not classy in defeat - often throwing out cheap one-liners about his opponents. His fellow pros didnt like him at all. Coria didnt congratulate Nadal on his win at MC 2005 given it was Nadal's first major win. I dare say he probably knew at that point that his days as king of clay were numbered...I didnt miss the guy when he retired prematurely after getting serving yips at the USO onwards (when he served 34 double faults in 2 matches!).

Coria is a huge talent... a talent much more obvious to the eye than Nadal ever will be.

Coria more talented than Nadal is rather obscure. Coria is talented alright for not translating his talent on clay to other surfaces. Not a fan me.

Tenez wrote:

Coria is a huge talent... a talent much more obvious to the eye than Nadal ever will be.

It's what you make of the talent you have got that counts. 1GS final on clay and never past the QF in any other slam for Coria as opposed to what Nadal has achieved tells the true story of who maximised their talent.

Calder106 wrote:

It's what you make of the talent you have got that counts. 1GS final on clay and never past the QF in any other slam for Coria as opposed to what Nadal has achieved tells the true story of who maximised their talent.

Yes, that's a fair point. But the way one wins and loses is to me as important, if not more than the record itself.

Tenez wrote: But the way one wins and loses is to me as important, if not more than the record itself.

Ferrero has had a very good career on Clay and on other surfaces as well.

Interesting that Gasquet has a lot of talent (so does Monfils) but Tsonga has translated his 'talent' better than some of his French compatriots, that too despite his injuries.

Edit: The application of 'talent' to achieve results is also a 'talent', which some players have, and some are deficient in such application.

I dont't think Monfils has much talent. Well he is athletically talented but shot making wise, he falls very sort to me.

The talent to achieve results can be called many things....the talent to play with a racquet is simply talent.

Tsonga can certainly be injured but when he is not, he is twice the physique of Gasquet....that's essentually why he is doing better in today's game than Gasquet...but Tsonga is also pretty talented.

How did this start off as a thread concerning Coria and ended up a Nadal bash.

Is there nowhere safe on here ?

Why didn't you ask yourself maybe why this thread started off as a Coria celebration but ended up as a Coria bashing?

Perhaps YI Man should create a "SPECIAL" thread for him and let this forum get back to some form of normality.

It's no wonder a lot of the posters have left, even socal, who was a fair and sensible poster (like your goodself) seems to have given up!

I'm honoured that my humble thread has been used for the most noble of all activities - Nadal bashing. Nadal has so little talent that he actually draws in the talent of others via diffusion; this occurs when the players meet at the net for the coin toss. Evidence for this is his recent match against Andy Murray. The talent that had diffused from Murray to Nadal gave him the edge in the first set, but unfortunately for the Spaniard he had sweated most of it out by the beginning of the second. The talent equilibrium shifted towards Murray, and the rest is history.

It's clear to anyone with a brain that to be a top professional at any sport you have to be obscenely talented at it, so I just view the 'Nadal has no talent' comments on here as a source of humour. If Nadal is lacking in talent then I must comparatively be so talentless that I'm surprised I don't accidently smack myself in the face with my racquet every time I play tennis. Actually, come to think of it, that would make me about as talented as Mikhael Youzhny

lol...

lydian wrote:Yes I suspect socal has left sportslover, its been 4 weeks since he was here I think.

I am hoping he comes back.

I did that once on my follow-through, when I tried to put too much top spin on the ball - big lump on my forehead.

Actually, if I'm honest I have done it as well! I overran the ball and ended up trying to whip it up with a forehand while the ball was basically directly to my side rather than out in front of me. It was a pretty vicious low slice shot, and I was looking down at it as I swung almost straight upwards to try to elevate it over the net with a load of topspin. Unfortunately my forehead was straight in the path of my swing. It hurt...really quite a lot actually!

I was actually more impressed with Nalbandian during this time, imagine if he had the luxury of a slightly easier era, i.e when the likes of Courier could win multiple majors, Nalbandian could've got 4 or 5 majors himself.

Who is this Nadal you speak of?

Has tenez been suspended ?

No...I am just thinking about my next post on Nadal bashing. We should not have to wait too long.

Laverfan's stats confirm that

Yes, I just need an audience and you have been my most faithful fan cause whereever I post you are there and when I am not you write about me (proof is everywhere on v2). I even suspect you joined v2 because I was posting here.

C'mon admit it!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/dna/606/A80332940

Tenez's broken record was playing then as well

Dont flatter yourself Tenez, I'd personally prefer not to be a member of any forum you're a member of because all you do is create rancour and discord everywhere you go, e.g. http://www.cctennisworld.com/tennis-forum/5-atp-player-discussions/5725-djokovic-out-of-monte-carlo.html

I like your comment of "Why don;t you (two) join 606v2? it is a Rafa fan club with nothing interesting to say about tennis?"

And yet despite those comments you soon enough made your way over here after being banned ( http://www.cctennisworld.com/tennis-forum/5-atp-player-discussions/5918-rafitawatch-world-number-1-clay-court-king.html?limit=15&start=30 ). Nowhere else to go? Then you soon got to work on the Rafa fan club here didnt you...

But then it didnt take you long to get banned from 606v2 either did it as you self-admit here: http://www.ja606.co.uk/comments/viewAllComments/2920

I've never liked the way you've constantly attacked and insinuated about Nadal, and also then belittled his fans. Its not even bashing, its beyond that...a kind of obsessive hatred and I'm sick of reading it on a forum you're a member of because its in everything you write. Laverfan showed 17% of your posts contain "Nadal, physique stamina"...and much of the other 83% are indirect slurs, etc.
This tennis section is going downhill due to single-minded, incessant agenda-driven posters like you.

Anyway, dont worry, this is my last post heere. As this forum hasnt banned you permanently I'm off, cant stand to be a part of any tennis forum you're a member of.
And I know that has been the same for many other posters on here, as it has been in the past.
Bye all...that's another regular poster down (look at my number of posts, socal's left too, as did Tom___ and many many others) and Nadal fan down (although a mild one at that).

Congrats Tenez, keep up the good work - you'll have the place to yourself soon enough

Well unlike you I have always been commenting on the player and more precisely, his game, whereas you attack the personalities of players and posters and that is essentially cause you coudl not counter the arguments with reasonable ones. Exactly like this thread again proves.

Even when BB argues against your views, you throw me in the middle and say he has been reading me too much.

I won't miss you. At the end you had an agenda and your arguments, or lack off, were too obvious.

And don;t try to blame me for the withdrawal of Socal. Show proof of that...or is it another of your unfounded point you like to slip in almost all your posts?

And I am sure that you will reappear, if and when Nadal stops having his @ss kicked.

Tenez wrote:Well unlike you I have always been commenting on the player and more precisely, his game

Physique and Stamina is the extent of your observational skills regarding a specific player, rather limited.

Do you ever analyse why you get banned from forums, or is that too simple a problem for you to comprehend?

lydian wrote:Dont flatter yourself Tenez, I'd personally prefer not to be a member of any forum you're a member of because all you do is create rancour and discord everywhere you go, e.g. http://www.cctennisworld.com/tennis-forum/5-atp-player-discussions/5725-djokovic-out-of-monte-carlo.html

I like your comment of "Why don;t you (two) join 606v2? it is a Rafa fan club with nothing interesting to say about tennis?"

And yet despite those comments you soon enough made your way over here after being banned ( http://www.cctennisworld.com/tennis-forum/5-atp-player-discussions/5918-rafitawatch-world-number-1-clay-court-king.html?limit=15&start=30 ). Nowhere else to go? Then you soon got to work on the Rafa fan club here didnt you...

But then it didnt take you long to get banned from 606v2 either did it as you self-admit here: http://www.ja606.co.uk/comments/viewAllComments/2920

I've never liked the way you've constantly attacked and insinuated about Nadal, and also then belittled his fans. Its not even bashing, its beyond that...a kind of obsessive hatred and I'm sick of reading it on a forum you're a member of because its in everything you write. Laverfan showed 17% of your posts contain "Nadal, physique stamina"...and much of the other 83% are indirect slurs, etc.
This tennis section is going downhill due to single-minded, incessant agenda-driven posters like you.

Anyway, dont worry, this is my last post heere. As this forum hasnt banned you permanently I'm off, cant stand to be a part of any tennis forum you're a member of.
And I know that has been the same for many other posters on here, as it has been in the past.
Bye all...that's another regular poster down (look at my number of posts, socal's left too, as did Tom___ and many many others) and Nadal fan down (although a mild one at that).

Congrats Tenez, keep up the good work - you'll have the place to yourself soon enough

Says it all and coming from a well respected poster.

Never mind when Federer decides to call it a day after he keeps getting beat from the likes of " No Silverware Tsonga" with a bit of luck he will follow suit, then posters like you can post sensibly without continually coming under attack!

So tenez doesn't rate Nadal's tennis ability relative to the others, how can anyone care that much?

Tenez wrote:Well unlike you I have always been commenting on the player and more precisely, his game, whereas you attack the personalities of players and posters and that is essentially cause you coudl not counter the arguments with reasonable ones. Exactly like this thread again proves.

Even when BB argues against your views, you throw me in the middle and say he has been reading me too much.

I won't miss you. At the end you had an agenda and your arguments, or lack off, were too obvious.

And don;t try to blame me for the withdrawal of Socal. Show proof of that...or is it another of your unfounded point you like to slip in almost all your posts?

And I am sure that you will reappear, if and when Nadal stops having his @ss kicked.

Ok, one last reply to you...
1. Your anti-Nadal agenda theories are incessant - my only crime is to take you to task on them. I showed that your central pre-Miami 2005 story about Nadal serving faster is more nonsense (I welcome anyone to time Nadal's overall serving inbetween points at the Miami 2004 match vs Fed...it debunks you completely). I've also frequently countered your argument about Federer losing strength in 5th sets and this being his reason for losing them so much by pointing out (with links) how Federer was trained with a military style regimen since 2003 to last 4hrs+ at peak performance, and this was reflected in his performance where he lasted >5hrs with Nadal on clay in heat at Rome2006 - how could he do that when he's so frail as you say? You've never been able to counter that. So, these are examples that show you spout nonsense yet you seek to come across as being objective and definitive.
2. Saying I attack posters is rich when you call most players "unknowledgeable", "lack logic", "fanboys", etc. I only attack you for the type of reasons given in point 1.
3. I have never been banned from any forum, you have been many times...so you're not exactly sweetness and light are you. You wind people up, but you dont seem to care about that. Even a very neutral guy like laverfan has become increasingly negative towards you! Only hardcore Fedfans/antiNadalians agree with your theories.
4. I've never had an agenda - other than to counter the bile you constantly come out with the past few years about Nadal, some of which has been verging on slander. And you accues others of agenda's? Again, thats pretty rich. Everyone else knew I had no agenda, except to stand up to you.
5. I will reappear here when you are banned but not before...which trust me wont take long, given your history and the fact you've been banned from here once already!

Au revoir.

Coudn't disappear for long.... and once again you came back for me!

You right...."Au revoir" is more appropriate than "Adieu"

It's a shame it has come to this. Hopefully see you again Lydian. Enjoying his departure is rather crass Tenez, sometimes it is better to say nothing at all.

Not as crass as willing someone to be banned.

I never bother about posters I don't like. I argue or ignore. It's very easy and simple for all to do. Why can't we all do the same? I am not posting here because I like all posters of v2, I believe we are over 2000!!!...I am staying around for those I like or simply those who are keen to engage in a tennis discussion.

Why posting about my argument with Lydian when you could have posted about Coria, or wow's thread about the newcomers, or even better create an interesting new topic of your own?

Tenez wrote:Not as crass as willing someone to be banned.

You get banned based on your behaviour alone, by repeating your arguments regarding a specific player.

I posted on here as I wanted to catch Lydian before he departed.

I have posted on the Coria thread. I would like to create a new topic, and plan to, but I mainly dip in and out of here. Can't guarantee it will be interesting though...

Oh dear, it seems things have gone rather downhill on this thread. It's a shame when adults (which is what I assume people are on here) are reduced to acting like a bunch of kids. Tenez, please learn how to accept some criticism; I've not been on here for all that long or posted that often, but even I've noticed your incessant attacks on Nadal, direct or otherwise. You're more than entitled to your opinions of him, but try to refrain from discussing them in practically every thread that appears on here. Lydian, don't go running off just because of one member...it seems like a bit of a shame.

Chazfazzer wrote:I've noticed your incessant attacks on Nadal, direct or otherwise.

I would suggest reading through the full thread to get a more complete picture. . Some of Lydian's comments are pretty precise and to-the-point.

I liked Coria until he fluffed up mentally in French Open 2004. The worst choke I have ever seen. How he could gift a journeyman like Gaudio the title I can't think. Remember that match well and how poor quality the tennis was. I also remember Coria particularly hated big servers. Verkerk murdered him in French Open 03 and he never once got the better of Roddick. Hated big servers.