Fever in the Aviva II – this time, it’s provincial

First topic message reminder :

Leinster v Munster on Friday night. Should be a cracker, all internationals will be back with both teams and we’ll both be going hammer and tongs at it to get up to speed for the HC the following week.

Let the banter begin.

Turnips….

Thread update. Teams announced:

Leinster also name team

15: Rob Kearney
14: Isa Nacewa
13: Fergus McFadden
12: Gordon D'Arcy
11: Luke Fitzgerald
10: Jonathan Sexton
9: Isaac Boss

1: Cian Healy
2: Richardt Strauss
3: Mike Ross
4: Leo Cullen CAPTAIN
5: Devin Toner
6: Sean O'Brien
7: Shane Jennings
8: Jamie Heaslip

REPLACEMENTS:

16: Sean Cronin
17: Heinke van der Merwe
18: Jamie Hagan
19: Kevin McLaughlin
20: Rhys Ruddock
21: Eoin Reddan
22: Ian Madigan
23: Eoin O'Malley


Munster:

Wian du Preez, Damien Varley, BJ Botha

Donnacha O'Callaghan, Paul O'Connell

Donnacha Ryan, Denis Leamy, Niall Ronan

Conor Murray, Ronan O'Gara

Lifeimi Mafi, Will Chambers

Keith Earls, Johne Murphy, Doug Howlett

Bench: Denis Fogarty, Marcus Horan, John Hayes, Peter O'Mahony, James Coughlan, Tomas O'Leary, Ian Keatley, Danny Barnes

What about in Wembley where he got 7 out of 7, scored a try, man of the match.
Away to Racing – scored 5 out 6 and 2 tries
Away to Clermont – 3 out of 3

So that would be 15 out of 16 kicks and 3 tries on the road in the “BIG HC games”, sure we might as well forget about the final.

Childrem, save your energies to bemoan the ref, cry foul of high tackles, slate the othersides' kicker and tactics all while enjoying a few pints or lemonades if you're the Dessie.

Seriously, this game is what both teams need to feed guys back in and get them up to speed for big European games. I've got my tickets and looking forward to some pre and post game fun.

As I have said before, I don't enjoy it when Munster beat Leinster, I just really really hate losing to them; I enjoy the ability to bragg more than bragging. Makes me sleep better at night, and then I wake up and think of the next meeting and what is at stake when that rolls around, but still wanting a full strength and healthy Leinster side to feed back into the 6N squad for Deccie. 4 into one, one out to 4.

Mickado wrote:What about in Wembley where he got 7 out of 7, scored a try, man of the match.
Away to Racing – scored 5 out 6 and 2 tries
Away to Clermont – 3 out of 3

So that would be 15 out of 16 kicks and 3 tries on the road in the “BIG HC games”, sure we might as well forget about the final.

I didn't claim he got the yips in ALL big games away from home - I was really pointing out that his kicking is usually OK in the RDS/Lansdowne.

debaters1 wrote:Childrem, save your energies to bemoan the ref, cry foul of high tackles, slate the othersides' kicker and tactics all while enjoying a few pints or lemonades if you're the Dessie.

Seriously, this game is what both teams need to feed guys back in and get them up to speed for big European games. I've got my tickets and looking forward to some pre and post game fun.

As I have said before, I don't enjoy it when Munster beat Leinster, I just really really hate losing to them; I enjoy the ability to bragg more than bragging. Makes me sleep better at night, and then I wake up and think of the next meeting and what is at stake when that rolls around, but still wanting a full strength and healthy Leinster side to feed back into the 6N squad for Deccie. 4 into one, one out to 4.

More or less agree with you debaters - I worry more about them getting injured (both teams) in this fixture than anything else.

So you were just pointing out that he SOMETIMES gets the yips away from home.

There isn’t one kicker who’s been 100% every game. So it’s a moot point. ROG has had disasters against us in the past.

Mickado wrote:So you were just pointing out that he SOMETIMES gets the yips away from home.

There isn’t one kicker who’s been 100% every game. So it’s a moot point. ROG has had disasters against us in the past.

No. I'm pointing out that he is usually ok at home in the RDS & Aviva.

Sexton's kicking should be ok in the Aviva in front of a home crowd.

When did ROG have a 'disaster' against Leinster? (I can only think of a couple of games in his entire career that he actually had a 'disaster' of a kicking game.'

Ah Sin, come on.

Not sure if it was the 2007/2008 season or the 2008/2009 season but ROG had an awful and I mean AWFUL set of ML stats that year. Truly shocking sub 60% stuff, possibly even worse. Now he fronted up in the HC and more or less for Ireland that year (but wasnt near 90% as he normally would be) but it was an awful season.

And dont blame the ball.

Sin é wrote:

D24tress wrote:

Sin é wrote:

D24tress wrote:We are not bragging, i wouldnt brag about my granny running through ROG and she would too,

someone said we should be worried about sextons kicking and i said i would be worried about rog's defending without wally there to babysit

Remind me how many tries Leinster have scored in their last outing against Munster with ROG at OH!

I think Leinster will be up against it to score any tries against Munster. Munster has by far the best defense in the Magners (and has been since Axel took over as defense coach).

Meanwhile, Leinster's defence is creeking bigtime. They need a dedicated defense coach.

Well that was after we won a heineken cup, this is before we win one

massive difference, and we are undefeated against you in the lansdowne

It was your 2nd HC - so the novelty of winning a cup should have worn off. Munster were in bonus try territory

Leinster are conceeding a lot of tries in the Magners.

I have a funny feeling Joe is going to get himself a fair few tries this Friday and may even keep Munster out entirely like that 30-0 win perhaps!

debaters1 wrote:Ah Sin, come on.

Not sure if it was the 2007/2008 season or the 2008/2009 season but ROG had an awful and I mean AWFUL set of ML stats that year. Truly shocking sub 60% stuff, possibly even worse. Now he fronted up in the HC and more or less for Ireland that year (but wasnt near 90% as he normally would be) but it was an awful season.

And dont blame the ball.

Oh right - that was the start of the '09-10 season I think - he changed his kicking style to get more distance, but his direction was way off. I think that lasted for 3 games, then he changed back to his old style and was fine for the HC & international.

Its amazing really - about 300 games for club and country and O'Gara has had about 5 bad days with his kicking (3 of them in the Magners where I think Munster won 2 of them anyway), one against England and then of course the reason why he has been top of the class all along - Northampton.

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:

I have a funny feeling Joe is going to get himself a fair few tries this Friday and may even keep Munster out entirely like that 30-0 win perhaps!

Losing 2 out of 3 so far isn't good for his cv.

Joe better tog out this Friday, the rest of them are not up to it

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:

Sin é wrote:

D24tress wrote:

Sin é wrote:

D24tress wrote:We are not bragging, i wouldnt brag about my granny running through ROG and she would too,

someone said we should be worried about sextons kicking and i said i would be worried about rog's defending without wally there to babysit

Remind me how many tries Leinster have scored in their last outing against Munster with ROG at OH!

I think Leinster will be up against it to score any tries against Munster. Munster has by far the best defense in the Magners (and has been since Axel took over as defense coach).

Meanwhile, Leinster's defence is creeking bigtime. They need a dedicated defense coach.

Well that was after we won a heineken cup, this is before we win one

massive difference, and we are undefeated against you in the lansdowne

It was your 2nd HC - so the novelty of winning a cup should have worn off. Munster were in bonus try territory

Leinster are conceeding a lot of tries in the Magners.

I have a funny feeling Joe is going to get himself a fair few tries this Friday and may even keep Munster out entirely like that 30-0 win perhaps!

I'd say Tony has is thinking of the 0-18 dished out by Munster a couple of season back. Be nice to return the favour back to you guys.

Sin, it wasnt 09/10. He had a sustained poor return from the boot. true it did improve through out the season but it was a lot longer than 3 games. You're thinking of the criticism that many Leinster fans threw at him in 09/10 when Sexton was breathing down his neck. That was justified, but then as now, if it was a good enough reason to drop ROG it is a good enough reason to drop Sexton.

On that subject, Sin has a point regarding Sexton's kicking in an Ireland context (not just the RWC) but his kicking percentage in all his games for Ireland is less than 65%. That ain't good enough and is sustained over too long a period to be merely conditions/new ball/difficult kicks/a bad day at the office.

Im not knocking him for the sake of it, or suggesting he cannot do it (we all have seen him step up to the plate and deliver) but no side can sustain that kicking percentage and expect to win. Indeed, for the very same reason that people pilloried Kidney for his winning percentage, and marry that to Sexton's appearances for Ireland; if you raise his percentage to the minimum 80%, I think you'll find we would have been more competetive and less pressured.

Just saying. Sexton has the capacity to be one of the great Out halves inho, all he needs is kicikng consistancy. He has the rest in terms of solid tackling (and more importantly, understanding of his defensive system and responsibilties) good pace to make breaks, game management is very solid, good kicking out of hand and can operate a backline with ball in hand.

A bit like the way ROG is playing the best rugby of his life in the areas he is not renouned for, Sexton has to get that consistancy, become that pinch hitter. And before people rush to his defence, I have not forgotten and still marvel at how he bossed the second half for Leinster in the HC Final in May. You can ask my die-hard Leinster fan of a sister the plaudits I was giving him and SOB that day!

I mean, if he had been able to do that in NZ we'd have been in France's place and things may have been different....oh for that ROG-Sexton 10-12 axis against a miss firing Weepu and Cruden/Donald........

Ah well, onward, upward. C'MON MUNSTER!!!!!

debaters1 wrote:

Sin, it wasnt 09/10. He had a sustained poor return from the boot. true it did improve through out the season but it was a lot longer than 3 games. You're thinking of the criticism that many Leinster fans threw at him in 09/10 when Sexton was breathing down his neck. That was justified, but then as now, if it was a good enough reason to drop ROG it is a good enough reason to drop Sexton.

I think it was the 09/10 season after the Lions. O'Gara's kicking was poor and much talked about against England that season (GS) in the 08/09. Munster got a home QF that season in the HCup, so his kicking must not have been that poor and he did get selected for the Lions. In the 07/08 season, Munster won the HCup and his kicking the points after Audebert* having stamped on his head (remember he got 18/20 stitches in his head and was wearing a bandage for the 6Ns that year) would seem to indicate he was playing really well for Munster anyway.

Heislip isn't the first backrower to have a go at taking ROG out!

Just saying. Sexton has the capacity to be one of the great Out halves inho, all he needs is kicikng consistancy. He has the rest in terms of solid tackling (and more importantly, understanding of his defensive system and responsibilties) good pace to make breaks, game management is very solid, good kicking out of hand and can operate a backline with ball in hand.

Sexton doesn't have the head to be a top international outhalf - most (if not all) Leinster's creativity comes from Nacewa.

Thats a bit harsh in fairness Sexton is not that bad, Nacewa is a crucial part of the Leinster team but he is by no means the only source of creativity in the Leinster team.

Sin, I highly doubt all or most of Leinster's creativity comes from their fullback, even if it is Isa Nacewa. There is definitely a lack of creativity atm in their centres, and in Irelands (D'Arcy, BOD) but Sexton is a creative player, and Leinster have a lot of players who can create something (Fitzgerald, McFadden, O'Malley, the Kearneys, Shaggy etc).

Nacewa isn't a superhero, no matter how good he is he is hardly the only creative back Leinster have and it would be absurd to think that it all stems down to him.

Most of Leinster's best play comes from Sexton linking up with the backrow. Hardly great backplay. Also that Heaslip shoulder charge is a bit of rubbish. He did raise his arm a bit but it's not a shoulder charge.

SOB is on ear to the ground on monday talking about his farm, apparently him and the bull used to annoy all the other irish team members talking about farming, hands across the border

I think if Sexton's international kicking stats were up in the early 80's he'd be one of the better flyhalves in the world, not the best, but in the top few.

He is a great attacking player creatively and great defender. His game management is good while not outstanding, if he had better goal kicking percentages (internationally) he'd be recognised by almost all as being on the path to greatness I think.

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:I think if Sexton's international kicking stats were up in the early 80's he'd be one of the better flyhalves in the world, not the best, but in the top few.

He is a great attacking player creatively and great defender. His game management is good while not outstanding, if he had better goal kicking percentages (internationally) he'd be recognised by almost all as being on the path to greatness I think.

I agree with this, or even if Ireland used another kicker (though I'd rather Sexton just improved).

I don't think he is as good a defender as people say. Murray can kick goals or he has in the AIL.

McFadden can kick goals too.

I think Ireland play better with Sexton at 10 with and without the ball I jsut think we lose momentum to kill games or to catch teams who are a score or two ahead of us due to missed kicks.

65% approx is not good enough

I agree with you Pete. As I've said already I hope Munster infringe all day long tomorrow. I don't think Sexton has the boot to punish us.

Well you can still conceed territory and possession, giving away penalties is not exactly the most sensible of defensive strategies

We can. Or we can bully that French ref into taking our side Leinster lack their openside. I reckon slowing down the ball is our best bet. Force Leinster into a slow match and pressure them into kicking away possession.

It has its risks of course however so does, not committing to the ruck and fanning out across the backline. O'Brien and Heaslip will get over the gain line regardless. Rather than stopping them, lets stop the source.

Does anyone know anywhere to watch this game in London?

nacewa our only creative back. that old chestnut again. not true. Isa is a top class fullback but all of the Leinster backs have contributed some outstanding moments in the last two years

the most important person we with have regard to backplay is Joel Schmidt. Unfortunately Ireland backs did not have access to him and were rendered impotent by a combination of poor selection, poor coaching and a lack of invention.

we have good backs just the irish mgmt regime had no idea how to get the best out of them.

red stag wouldn't be so sure about offending all day. Sexton has gotten the yips on a few occasions usually in a green jersey but his kicking for Leinster has typically been of a high quality

i would worry about our 2nd row and lineout however i think home advantage may see us through. be interesting to see how midfield works out and how chambers does for your lot.

Munster name their team v Leinster:

Wian du Preez, Damien Varley, BJ Botha

Donnacha O'Callaghan, Paul O'Connell

Donnacha Ryan, Denis Leamy, Niall Ronan

Conor Murray, Ronan O'Gara

Lifeimi Mafi, Will Chambers

Keith Earls, Johne Murphy, Doug Howlett

Bench: Denis Fogarty, Marcus Horan, John Hayes, Peter O'Mahony, James Coughlan, Tomas O'Leary, Ian Keatley, Danny Barnes

Injured: Darragh Hurley, Jerry Flannery, Mike Sherry, Peter Borlase, Dave O'Callaghan, David Wallace, Troy Smith, Felix Jones

Leinster also name team

15: Rob Kearney
14: Isa Nacewa
13: Fergus McFadden
12: Gordon D'Arcy
11: Luke Fitzgerald
10: Jonathan Sexton
9: Isaac Boss

1: Cian Healy
2: Richardt Strauss
3: Mike Ross
4: Leo Cullen CAPTAIN
5: Devin Toner
6: Sean O'Brien
7: Shane Jennings
8: Jamie Heaslip

REPLACEMENTS:

16: Sean Cronin
17: Heinke van der Merwe
18: Jamie Hagan
19: Kevin McLaughlin
20: Rhys Ruddock
21: Eoin Reddan
22: Ian Madigan
23: Eoin O'Malley

Stag, I have images of you tearing your hair out re Ronan's selection! Is TOL on the bench by default?! I'd nearly have gone with a 6th forward or Zebo instead of him. In AWFUL form. Nothing new saying that be he almost seems to be getting worse.

Dave, poor selection?! How many more Leinster players would you want in the backline? Sexton was kicking poorly. Way too poorly to be carried. Fair enough if you'd have had Trimble over Earls, but Bowe was the weak link at wing (this is a relative term, all three guys were playing well) until his marquee performance against Italy.

As for Murray, played well and is a better defender than Reddan. Them's the facts. Be we all know Leinster are better than the All Blacks and BOD was not missing tackles nor has be lost place, merely the opposition cheat by breaking tackles and running around him........

Im actually not as angry about it as I expected to be. I like the idea of O'Mahony and Coughlan coming on as impact subs as well as Keatley and Barnes. I like Ryan at 6 we have a third viable lineout option which is necessary. I also like Mafi at 12 rather than Barnes.

Niall Ronin

I'd fancy Munster takig a real crack at Leinster second rows. Cullen wont wilt but Toner might and then McLaughlin on, he certainly wont weaken Leinster around the park, but I dont see him as anything but a tail jumper.

Nor BOD and D'Arcy assuming defensive leadership......Not amazingly weak or anything but Im moderately more confident than I was prior to the Leinster team being named. CANNOT understand Kearney shifting Isa to the wing. Obviously what Ireland would want but no way does that help Leinster, but I accept that kearney aint no winger either.

Why did Munster sign a 13 and not a 12?! Barnes should be on in his usual position.

Hmm not best pleased.

In terms of winning this game I...

Would have prefered BOD to Darcy
Would have put Íosa at 15 and Kearney elsewhere
Would have put a back 3 on the bench rather than EOM but guess McF can do that

I'm glad Jenno is playing now (from a Leinster not an Irish perspective)
Glad McLaughlin is being tried out at lock, seems we have bought a NIQ who we don't really trust. McL is a good lineout option though and a great lineout stealer (Leicester).
Glad Toner is in there
Think our bench is strong

Re:Munster.
Disappointed not to see POM go up against Jenno (would have prefered Ryan) but ah well. Intertesting to see you've gone for a third jumper like that although you will lose a small bit of mobility.

Mafi is a good choice over Barnes but from an irish perspective it is more than disappointing.

Pair of withering props on the bench like the rest of your bench tho


Think this is going to be closer now than I thought before the teams were announced and after rationalising it all, I think that is due to the inclusion of Darcy. BOD is now going into the HCup with 0 time.

That being said he was injured for the RWC.

If the Munster props and hooker were better I'd be extremely worried about us in the tight 5.

Think our backrow blows yours out of the water.

Halfbacks kinda depends on the day they have. How much better is Murray than Boss and Sexton than ROG? Pretty tight.

Centre: a place I expected Leinster to attack with gusto now seems more evenly balanced.

Back3: If it is wet, I expect bombs and I know who I want under them between Murphy and Kearney.

Don't like that Isa is switched to the wing, he will have less influence there as he will collect less kicks there and also be on the wing rather than coming into the line from depth and at different points. Think this is a bad call and makes our backline a lot less threatening offensively.

Kearney = very good fullback/poor winger
Nacewa = very good fullback/good winger

Schmidt has probably made the right selection there.

I'd also say that D'arcy was a bit better than BOD in the World Cup. His performance against Italy was good. And BOD probably isn't fully fit. I'd say he was taped up like a mummy underneath the green jersey. So Schmidt has made the right selection there too.

Leinster to win. Sexton to nail 100% of his kicks and Kearney to score the winning try.

I imagine BOD is still somewhat injured yes.

I think Nacewa is a better fullback than R. Kearney and D.Kearney or Carr are better wingers than R.Kearney.

I think the difference in backrows could be the decider in this game

"Dave, poor selection?! How many more Leinster players would you want in the backline? Sexton was kicking poorly. Way too poorly to be carried. Fair enough if you'd have had Trimble over Earls, but Bowe was the weak link at wing (this is a relative term, all three guys were playing well) until his marquee performance against Italy"


Not the point i was trying to make at all. My issue with selection was the fact that our half backs were so unsettled but we did not try anything different in midfield where drico and darcy were not a threat for a good 18 months in the lead up to the world cup. never tried bowe,downey,drico @ 12 etc. probably would not have mate a jot of a difference given the flat back alignment and absence of set piece moves.

I have to take up Sin's point that Leinsters attack last year was down to Nacewa. That's poppycock.

Leinster were playing total attacking rugby. When Leinster were close to the oppositions try line, who was threatening the line? Who was scoring tries. Off the top of my head Strauss, Healy, Heaslip, O'Brien, Sexton and O'Driscoll were all major threats and all scored at least a couple of tries in the Heineken Cup. Hines can be dangerous from a few meters out. That's before even mentioning the finishers in the back three.

Leinster could score with their forwards by pummeling away at the opposition defence e.g. both Healys tries against Clermont. They could score with sweeping counter attacks through the backs e.g. Sextons superb try against Saracens (with Kearney at fullback). They could score with clever linking between the forwards and the backs e.g. many of the 11 tries against Racing Metro. And yes, Nacewa could make a try by himself e.g. against Tigers.

Fever in the Aviva.....

Could be a lot of angst around tomorrow evening. Will Daddies Greek investments go up the spout or is BODs injury more serious than thought.

Can Sexton kick (besides Mafis head) or will we have to hang on to the 2010 BMW for another year.

Will we have to give up our skiing holiday if Ruari stops Public payments to Private Education institutions meaning we have to pay the full amount (OMG)...little lord fauntleroys future education could be in jeopardy (or his skiiing holiday...or will Jaimie have a return to form....

The prozac with a few pints of heino will be flowing tomorrow evening.

What are you on about DOD? Where do you think all the money in the country is gone? Us D4 heads have it all of course. I'm going skiing after the game with my friends, Fiachra, Oisín, Cabáiste and Uachtar reoite.

haha that made me chuckle dod

we have nothing like the working class grit and spirit that pours out of Montenotte and Douglas in Cork

cant wait for 5 years down the line when til wayne boland from blanch ditches the round ball and gaa to run in a try in the last minute in thomond with the assist from the rangey 2nd row moses umbuku from ballyfermot. all from a rock solid scrum anchored by Lukazs "Deco" Justkowiac.

leinster branch are detoffing rugby one step at a time.

Is Mc Gahan trying to get sacked?

Feckless Rogue wrote:I have to take up Sin's point that Leinsters attack last year was down to Nacewa. That's poppycock.

Leinster were playing total attacking rugby. When Leinster were close to the oppositions try line, who was threatening the line? Who was scoring tries. Off the top of my head Strauss, Healy, Heaslip, O'Brien, Sexton and O'Driscoll were all major threats and all scored at least a couple of tries in the Heineken Cup. Hines can be dangerous from a few meters out. That's before even mentioning the finishers in the back three.

Leinster could score with their forwards by pummeling away at the opposition defence e.g. both Healys tries against Clermont. They could score with sweeping counter attacks through the backs e.g. Sextons superb try against Saracens (with Kearney at fullback). They could score with clever linking between the forwards and the backs e.g. many of the 11 tries against Racing Metro. And yes, Nacewa could make a try by himself e.g. against Tigers.

Its getting the ball into the red zone that Nacewa is good at where the others can strike from - and from fullback where he can take any route to get there. While passing the ball to Sean O'Brien to barge down the field is very entertainment to watch, its hardly creative.

As for Ronan instead of POM - POM would lose the plot and probably be cited and end up not being available for the Heineken Cup. Much better just giving him 10-15 minutes and then unleashing him on Northampton next week (they won't know a thing about him).

Sin é wrote:

Feckless Rogue wrote:I have to take up Sin's point that Leinsters attack last year was down to Nacewa. That's poppycock.

Leinster were playing total attacking rugby. When Leinster were close to the oppositions try line, who was threatening the line? Who was scoring tries. Off the top of my head Strauss, Healy, Heaslip, O'Brien, Sexton and O'Driscoll were all major threats and all scored at least a couple of tries in the Heineken Cup. Hines can be dangerous from a few meters out. That's before even mentioning the finishers in the back three.

Leinster could score with their forwards by pummeling away at the opposition defence e.g. both Healys tries against Clermont. They could score with sweeping counter attacks through the backs e.g. Sextons superb try against Saracens (with Kearney at fullback). They could score with clever linking between the forwards and the backs e.g. many of the 11 tries against Racing Metro. And yes, Nacewa could make a try by himself e.g. against Tigers.

Its getting the ball into the red zone that Nacewa is good at where the others can strike from - and from fullback where he can take any route to get there. While passing the ball to Sean O'Brien to barge down the field is very entertainment to watch, its hardly creative.

As for Ronan instead of POM - POM would lose the plot and probably be cited and end up not being available for the Heineken Cup. Much better just giving him 10-15 minutes and then unleashing him on Northampton next week (they won't know a thing about him).

Two ridiculously stupid points. SOB was able to make them burst down field due to smart passes putting him in space and allowing him to target the weak shoulders of defenders. The interplay between Leinster's backs and forwards last year was outstanding and all about finding space for people to run into, creating mismatches of backs against forwards and exploiting any weaknesses.

POM should start because he is a better player than Ronan. If you can't trust him in this type of match, he has no place in rugby, he has to learn how to deal with being wound up and he is fine. There would be absolutely no danger of him being cited.


On other issues, pete I told you kearney would be a 15 by this time in the season during the summer. Isa will still be a class act on the wing and will be able to get involved as much. Kearney is a poor wing and a world class fullback, it makes perfect sense.

On Ryan in the backrow because he's a third lineout option, that's a load of cr*p. POM is suberp in the lineout and is just as good if not better than ryan in the air. The munster selection is extremely disappointing from an Irish pov. Leave Ryan in the second row, doc best days are behind him and ryan has looked good there when hes played, we need him to come good. Ronan at 7 proves that McGahan is a moron, he is sh*t and everyone knows it. The only when it can be explained is that POM is carrying a head injury from last week.

"POM should start because he is a better player than Ronan. If you can't trust him in this type of match, he has no place in rugby, he has to learn how to deal with being wound up and he is fine. There would be absolutely no danger of him being cited.


On other issues, pete I told you kearney would be a 15 by this time in the season during the summer. Isa will still be a class act on the wing and will be able to get involved as much. Kearney is a poor wing and a world class fullback, it makes perfect sense.

On Ryan in the backrow because he's a third lineout option, that's a load of cr*p. POM is suberp in the lineout and is just as good if not better than ryan in the air. The munster selection is extremely disappointing from an Irish pov. Leave Ryan in the second row, doc best days are behind him and ryan has looked good there when hes played, we need him to come good. Ronan at 7 proves that McGahan is a moron, he is sh*t and everyone knows it. The only when it can be explained is that POM is carrying a head injury from last week."


Agree with the POM bit but DOC is still better than Ryan.

DOD wrote:Fever in the Aviva.....

Could be a lot of angst around tomorrow evening. Will Daddies Greek investments go up the spout or is BODs injury more serious than thought.

Can Sexton kick (besides Mafis head) or will we have to hang on to the 2010 BMW for another year.

Will we have to give up our skiing holiday if Ruari stops Public payments to Private Education institutions meaning we have to pay the full amount (OMG)...little lord fauntleroys future education could be in jeopardy (or his skiiing holiday...or will Jaimie have a return to form....

The prozac with a few pints of heino will be flowing tomorrow evening.

DOD wrote:"POM should start because he is a better player than Ronan. If you can't trust him in this type of match, he has no place in rugby, he has to learn how to deal with being wound up and he is fine. There would be absolutely no danger of him being cited.


On other issues, pete I told you kearney would be a 15 by this time in the season during the summer. Isa will still be a class act on the wing and will be able to get involved as much. Kearney is a poor wing and a world class fullback, it makes perfect sense.

On Ryan in the backrow because he's a third lineout option, that's a load of cr*p. POM is suberp in the lineout and is just as good if not better than ryan in the air. The munster selection is extremely disappointing from an Irish pov. Leave Ryan in the second row, doc best days are behind him and ryan has looked good there when hes played, we need him to come good. Ronan at 7 proves that McGahan is a moron, he is sh*t and everyone knows it. The only when it can be explained is that POM is carrying a head injury from last week."


Agree with the POM bit but DOC is still better than Ryan.

Doc is over 30 and has been poor in the vast majority of games for the past year. He still raise his game when he wants to for the big occasion but he no longer has the consistency of playing well week in week out. I think Ryan at 4 would improve that team but playing an actual 8 and an actual rugby player at 7 would have helped more.

valjester wrote:
Two ridiculously stupid points. SOB was able to make them burst down field due to smart passes putting him in space and allowing him to target the weak shoulders of defenders. The interplay between Leinster's backs and forwards last year was outstanding and all about finding space for people to run into, creating mismatches of backs against forwards and exploiting any weaknesses.

POM should start because he is a better player than Ronan. If you can't trust him in this type of match, he has no place in rugby, he has to learn how to deal with being wound up and he is fine. There would be absolutely no danger of him being cited.

On other issues, pete I told you kearney would be a 15 by this time in the season during the summer. Isa will still be a class act on the wing and will be able to get involved as much. Kearney is a poor wing and a world class fullback, it makes perfect sense.

On Ryan in the backrow because he's a third lineout option, that's a load of cr*p. POM is suberp in the lineout and is just as good if not better than ryan in the air. The munster selection is extremely disappointing from an Irish pov. Leave Ryan in the second row, doc best days are behind him and ryan has looked good there when hes played, we need him to come good. Ronan at 7 proves that McGahan is a moron, he is sh*t and everyone knows it. The only when it can be explained is that POM is carrying a head injury from last week.

While I think Sin made some silly points there, I disagree with you somewhat about POM and Ronan. POM is a much better player, but he isn't an openside. Simple as that, people seem to find it hard to realise this. Infact Ronan is probably better at openside play, as it is the position he actually has the skillset for. Why do people think POM is an openside anyway? The people who seem to want him to play there I don't think have seen much of him. He is an 8.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

valjester wrote:
Two ridiculously stupid points. SOB was able to make them burst down field due to smart passes putting him in space and allowing him to target the weak shoulders of defenders. The interplay between Leinster's backs and forwards last year was outstanding and all about finding space for people to run into, creating mismatches of backs against forwards and exploiting any weaknesses.

POM should start because he is a better player than Ronan. If you can't trust him in this type of match, he has no place in rugby, he has to learn how to deal with being wound up and he is fine. There would be absolutely no danger of him being cited.

On other issues, pete I told you kearney would be a 15 by this time in the season during the summer. Isa will still be a class act on the wing and will be able to get involved as much. Kearney is a poor wing and a world class fullback, it makes perfect sense.

On Ryan in the backrow because he's a third lineout option, that's a load of cr*p. POM is suberp in the lineout and is just as good if not better than ryan in the air. The munster selection is extremely disappointing from an Irish pov. Leave Ryan in the second row, doc best days are behind him and ryan has looked good there when hes played, we need him to come good. Ronan at 7 proves that McGahan is a moron, he is sh*t and everyone knows it. The only when it can be explained is that POM is carrying a head injury from last week.

While I think Sin made some silly points there, I disagree with you somewhat about POM and Ronan. POM is a much better player, but he isn't an openside. Simple as that, people seem to find it hard to realise this. Infact Ronan is probably better at openside play, as it is the position he actually has the skillset for. Why do people think POM is an openside anyway? The people who seem to want him to play there I don't think have seen much of him. He is an 8.

We've had this argument before. I've seen plenty of POM play, he may end up as an 8 but he has the skillset to play at 7. He was playing very well at 7 last week until he had to go off with a head injury. Ronan is not better than him. POM has played at 6,7,8 for munster as well as playing on the week for Cork Con one time and has done well in all positions. He has just turned 22 so has plenty of time to develop and although he may end up as an 8, his displays at 7 suggest it would be wrong to write him off as an option there so early in his career.

Rory, I think its simple enough.

POM skill set makes him best at 8.

Munster have nobody at 7 and have a lot of options at 8.
Ireland have few options at 7 and a lot of options at 8.

Playing him at 7 is the best move for now. You play with the cards your given.

valjester wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Feckless Rogue wrote:I have to take up Sin's point that Leinsters attack last year was down to Nacewa. That's poppycock.

Leinster were playing total attacking rugby. When Leinster were close to the oppositions try line, who was threatening the line? Who was scoring tries. Off the top of my head Strauss, Healy, Heaslip, O'Brien, Sexton and O'Driscoll were all major threats and all scored at least a couple of tries in the Heineken Cup. Hines can be dangerous from a few meters out. That's before even mentioning the finishers in the back three.

Leinster could score with their forwards by pummeling away at the opposition defence e.g. both Healys tries against Clermont. They could score with sweeping counter attacks through the backs e.g. Sextons superb try against Saracens (with Kearney at fullback). They could score with clever linking between the forwards and the backs e.g. many of the 11 tries against Racing Metro. And yes, Nacewa could make a try by himself e.g. against Tigers.

Its getting the ball into the red zone that Nacewa is good at where the others can strike from - and from fullback where he can take any route to get there. While passing the ball to Sean O'Brien to barge down the field is very entertainment to watch, its hardly creative.

As for Ronan instead of POM - POM would lose the plot and probably be cited and end up not being available for the Heineken Cup. Much better just giving him 10-15 minutes and then unleashing him on Northampton next week (they won't know a thing about him).

Two ridiculously stupid points. SOB was able to make them burst down field due to smart passes putting him in space and allowing him to target the weak shoulders of defenders. The interplay between Leinster's backs and forwards last year was outstanding and all about finding space for people to run into, creating mismatches of backs against forwards and exploiting any weaknesses.

POM should start because he is a better player than Ronan. If you can't trust him in this type of match, he has no place in rugby, he has to learn how to deal with being wound up and he is fine. There would be absolutely no danger of him being cited.

On other issues, pete I told you kearney would be a 15 by this time in the season during the summer. Isa will still be a class act on the wing and will be able to get involved as much. Kearney is a poor wing and a world class fullback, it makes perfect sense.

On Ryan in the backrow because he's a third lineout option, that's a load of cr*p. POM is suberp in the lineout and is just as good if not better than ryan in the air. The munster selection is extremely disappointing from an Irish pov. Leave Ryan in the second row, doc best days are behind him and ryan has looked good there when hes played, we need him to come good. Ronan at 7 proves that McGahan is a moron, he is sh*t and everyone knows it. The only when it can be explained is that POM is carrying a head injury from last week.

God, someone got out of bed on the wrong side today. No need to be insulting.

Creative Move 1: The ball is passed to SOB who runs down the middle of the pitch knocking everyone over who comes near him, with someone on his shoulder to take an offload (note: that might not work anymore because everyone will have seen the Ireland v Wales game).

Nacewa runs into space from fullback. Rob Kearney runs into contact. Thats the difference.

POM does have a discipline problem (and I'm sure all his U20s team mates like Ruddock know exactly how to wind him up) - it would be like throwing a lighted match into a fireworks factory starting him. If Munster had a load of fit backrows available for Heineken Cup duty next week, fair enough, let him loose. But introducing him for the latter part of the match might be the better option.

Anyway, Ronan needs to be match fit just as much as the rest of them.

I know why he is playing 7 for Munster now, because they don't really have the options there atm but it is when people are suggesting he has the skillset to play 7? No he doesn't. He isn't a fetcher, he does not play anything like the likes of McCaw, Warburton, Pocock etc. So why do some people think he has that skillset when he quite clearly doesn't?

Also Ireland do not really have that great depth at 8.. Heaslip and O'Brien really. Leamy at a push. However POM is definitely a better 8 than Leamy, O'Brien is best at flanker and Heaslip hasn't been in form. POM will be our next 8.