The four proud HEC provinces

So for the first time ever we have a full compliment in the HEC. How are we feeling, one and all?

Personally, even though Montpellier have no HEC pedigree they worry me. They stormed into qualification last year. They've never cared about the Amlin, even to the point of being fined by the ERC after not registering the likes of Trinh Duc. But as a group I'd say it's less evil than last year.

Ulster, without Pienaar, are up against it. Clermont (ouch) and Tigers (ouch-ouch), how are the northerners feeling about this? Would qualification for the Amlin knock-outs be a good or bad thing, in terms of realistic silverware?

Munster, well the fans probably won't wake up until the knock out stages Lets hope the team does. WC hangovers and all that. Leinster are likewise suffering. The derby was not exactly Inviticus, now was it? Actually it was, awful film.

Harlequins and Gloucester yo-yo between the Amin and the HEC. In fact, in Connacht's group, Toulouse are the only team that weren't in the Amlin last year. The group of snooze in terms of TV coverage, I fear.

But still, the first time we've had all four and that's something to celebrate. And Connacht's HEC shirt is, once again, a thing of beauty.

Spoiler:

The beard-stroking verdict: Lots of beer.

Leinster - Montpellier have something like 9 players returning from the WC yet on some posts you would think its a walkover for Leinster. Galthie is one of the smartest coaches around. Took Montpellier to the Top 14 final last year....they might not be doing well now but missing 9 first choice players is a big thing for any team.

Munster - If we dont win on Sat we are toast for this year. While there are only 6 players in the Munster team that played in the 08 final we are now suffering from McGahan not having blooded new players in the ML over the last few years. By that I mean not letting new players get a decent run. Also it looks as if the wheels are starting to come off the bandwagon. Tickets are on general sale now for Saturday.

Connacht - a couple of home wins if they are lucky.

Ulster - Tough group again. Could struggle. Missing the xfactor.

I agree DOD. You need to nail the first match or you'll be catching up for the rest of the competition. That goes for all of us, really.

I know if you lost you wouldn't chuck it in and concentrate on the Pro12, not your style, but it would put the backs to the wall early.

Can't see Connacht winning a single game. Lost 4 in a row in the Pro12, not gelling at all. No depth.

I hope Ulster can at the very least qualify for the Amlin and get a few points so they'll be seeded higher next year,it's always a tough group if you aren't in the top 2 seeds.

I don't know about Munster,it all depends on just how good Northampton are.They had a relatively easy route to the final last year but you can only beat what's in front of you.
At the end of last season Earls,Jones and Howlett was up there with the best back 3 units in Europe,will Muntser miss the cutting edge that combination gave them?

greybeard wrote:
Ulster, without Pienaar, are up against it. Clermont (ouch) and Tigers (ouch-ouch), how are the northerners feeling about this? Would qualification for the Amlin knock-outs be a good or bad thing, in terms of realistic silverware?

DOD I'm actually more confident now than when the group was drawn. This 1st game is make or break. Our squad is very,very strong on paper but our form has not been good. Last week was a huge improvement from the pack and the returning Irish guys inparticular looked very good. A lot will depend on Marshall and Humphreys .

It's all about momentum and a win on saturday could set us on a good run but we shall see.

In terms of the Amlin. We haven't won anything since 2006 so any silverware would be good, especially as we have lost a lot of ground in the league. However I'm not ready to throw the HEC towel in just yet! SUFTUM!

I certainly wouldn't mind heading into the Amlin. Can be a major boost and it'd be great for our youngsters to get a taste of success early on!

Also to keep some players, I think we need to show people like 1F we can challenge for silverware.

When are the teams announced?

I'm surprised there's no seperate thread for the Munster v Saints game?

That is a monster game and I'm looking forward to it almost as much as the Ulster game. Lets hope BJ fairs a bit better against the saints in the scrum this year!

Connacht were announced today for Fridays match, so I guess the teams playing on Saturday will announce tomorrow.

i thought Connacht were supposed to have fielded a weakened team against us last week. Looks very similar if you ask me.

Backrow is better, scrum half was a close call, but nice to see POD starting a HEC game. McSharry showed better defense than Fa'afili, which will be much needed, Griffen is back, Duffy is returned to FB.

Not huge changes, but even 3-4 changes in a Connacht team weakens it

roddersm wrote:When are the teams announced?

I'm surprised there's no seperate thread for the Munster v Saints game?
That is a monster game and I'm looking forward to it almost as much as the Ulster game. Lets hope BJ fairs a bit better against the saints in the scrum this year!

There is a dose of apathy at the moment...same with the supporters it appears as it isnt a sell out....cant say I remember when that last happened for a home HC game (without Italian opposition).

Really DOD?? Why is that? What's your view on that game?

roddersm wrote:Really DOD?? Why is that? What's your view on that game?

Novelty worn off of the new Thomond Park (26K). The economy/emigration.

There will probably be more Munster supporters in the MK stadium for the away game than in Thomond for the home game.

Feck Sin that's terrible ! Munster and Thomond is synonymous with the HEC. I can't believe there is an apathy towards a game against last years runners up! An English team as well

roddersm wrote:Feck Sin that's terrible ! Munster and Thomond is synonymous with the HEC. I can't believe there is an apathy towards a game against last years runners up! An English team as well

Its not apathy. They can't afford to go.

Unemployment figure for Limerick city in Sept. were 16,200 (the total pop is about 56,000). Limerick would have most the clubs in Munster. Thats an awful lot of people on limited income.

Novelty worn off of the new Thomond Park (26K). The economy/emigration.

There will probably be more Munster supporters in the MK stadium for the away game than in Thomond for the home game.

I wouldn't be quite as downbeat as that Sin.

Come 18:00 Saturday Thomond will be rocking.

No doubt alot of the 'interested onlookers' / bandwagon supporters will be burnt off by now but IMO that's no bad thing.

Jesus I've sat in TP since it reopened and been bewildered why some people even bother to spend the money to attend given their lack of interest in what's going on out on the field and almost total ignorance of all things rugby related.

No doubt also that the economy is begining to seriously hinder what people can afford to do. Peoples disposable income has plumeted in the last couple of years.

Sin é wrote:
Its not apathy. They can't afford to go.

Thats worse!

Sad times. Maybe a good European run by Munster will give people a lift.

Lads i can see leinster and munster easily being turned over
i think we all read galthie in the IT today and know montpellier will be a force

we know what the saints can do and so do munster, clermont are one of the favourites and quins are top of the jeff

it could be a bad start for the irish teams.

Then again
munster dont get beat in TP
Fortress ravenhill
Heino champs
Connacht have played quins many times before and wont be scared

D24tress wrote:Lads i can see leinster and munster easily being turned over
i think we all read galthie in the IT today and know montpellier will be a force

we know what the saints can do and so do munster, clermont are one of the favourites and quins are top of the jeff

it could be a bad start for the irish teams.

Ah the good old Deccie tactics. Never fails

red_stag wrote:

D24tress wrote:Lads i can see leinster and munster easily being turned over
i think we all read galthie in the IT today and know montpellier will be a force

we know what the saints can do and so do munster, clermont are one of the favourites and quins are top of the jeff

it could be a bad start for the irish teams.

Ah the good old Deccie tactics. Never fails

ah sure we will try our best but how can we compete with the money in france and england,
we are just four humble small teams with local lads who will give it a lash

Sin é wrote:

roddersm wrote:Feck Sin that's terrible ! Munster and Thomond is synonymous with the HEC. I can't believe there is an apathy towards a game against last years runners up! An English team as well

Its not apathy. They can't afford to go.

Unemployment figure for Limerick city in Sept. were 16,200 (the total pop is about 56,000). Limerick would have most the clubs in Munster. Thats an awful lot of people on limited income.

As was predicted by some a few years ago...putting your primary stadium nearly 2 hours away from your largest market isnt the best business decision. Pop of Cork city and surrounds = close to 500,000, main road form Waterford, Tipp. Cork have more clubs, players and supporters than Limerick. Having ML only games in Cork has disaffected a large proportion of people who initialy got interested around 1999/2000. Once Munster went down the clubs only route for distributing tickets (unlike the more enlightened and less elitist Leinster Branch - never thought I would ever say that - who went with the Season ticket approach thereby building supporter loyalty and letting your average Joe Soap enjoy Leinster Rugby). This is why Leinster have caught up with Munster in terms of attendances in a short space of time and are now surpassing them and will continue to grow.

Munster have managed to retain supporter interest to the clubs and while they could not deal with the demand a few years back when the bandwagon was on a role they are now left with falling demand in one sector and a complete lack of ability in getting the non-club interested rugby supporter involved.

DOD wrote:

Sin é wrote:

roddersm wrote:Feck Sin that's terrible ! Munster and Thomond is synonymous with the HEC. I can't believe there is an apathy towards a game against last years runners up! An English team as well

Its not apathy. They can't afford to go.

Unemployment figure for Limerick city in Sept. were 16,200 (the total pop is about 56,000). Limerick would have most the clubs in Munster. Thats an awful lot of people on limited income.

As was predicted by some a few years ago...putting your primary stadium nearly 2 hours away from your largest market isnt the best business decision. Pop of Cork city and surrounds = close to 500,000, main road form Waterford, Tipp. Cork have more clubs, players and supporters than Limerick. Having ML only games in Cork has disaffected a large proportion of people who initialy got interested around 1999/2000. Once Munster went down the clubs only route for distributing tickets (unlike the more enlightened and less elitist Leinster Branch - never thought I would ever say that - who went with the Season ticket approach thereby building supporter loyalty and letting your average Joe Soap enjoy Leinster Rugby). This is why Leinster have caught up with Munster in terms of attendances in a short space of time and are now surpassing them and will continue to grow.

Munster have managed to retain supporter interest to the clubs and while they could not deal with the demand a few years back when the bandwagon was on a role they are now left with falling demand in one sector and a complete lack of ability in getting the non-club interested rugby supporter involved.

If the main centre was Cork, no one outside Cork would be arsed going near the place.

Interesting response Sin when a few stats are thrown in your direction

DOD wrote:Interesting response Sin when a few stats are thrown in your direction

Here's one for you. Metropolitan Cork has a population of 274,000. Similar to South Dublin . The RDS holds about 18,000, not 26,000K. Leinster move 2 games a year to the Aviva -one of which is Munster which usually does well as a lot of Munster fans are based in Dublin (over 160 miles from Cork).

Not just 160 miles, but lightyears in terms of style

greybeard wrote:Not just 160 miles, but lightyears in terms of style

Indeed !

I hope its not all style and no substance

Good one Sin lets cater for all the fans in Dublin best argument from you yet.


I would totally agree that Dublin is lightyears behind Cork in style and substance very perceptive of you.

Also very perceptive to note that tp holds 26k. Given your argument you would think it was filled with people coming down from Dublin with a few Limerickmen thrown in. Maybe the reason the shiny shed isnt going to be filled this weekend is because all the plastic, bandwagon crowd like yourself aren't coming down for the game?

DOD wrote:Good one Sin lets cater for all the fans in Dublin best argument from you yet.


I would totally agree that Dublin is lightyears behind Cork in style and substance very perceptive of you.

Also very perceptive to note that tp holds 26k. Given your argument you would think it was filled with people coming down from Dublin with a few Limerickmen thrown in. Maybe the reason the shiny shed isnt going to be filled this weekend is because all the plastic, bandwagon crowd like yourself aren't coming down for the game?

DOD - what you don't seem to get is that the rest of the country can't stand Cork because ye can be unbearable at times (Cork hurlers, Roy Keane etc. etc). If the Munster team was based in Cork, it would have no supporters. In fact, everyone outside of Cork would support Leinster ! Munster would be the new Leinster!

Sin é wrote:

DOD wrote:Good one Sin lets cater for all the fans in Dublin best argument from you yet.


I would totally agree that Dublin is lightyears behind Cork in style and substance very perceptive of you.

Also very perceptive to note that tp holds 26k. Given your argument you would think it was filled with people coming down from Dublin with a few Limerickmen thrown in. Maybe the reason the shiny shed isnt going to be filled this weekend is because all the plastic, bandwagon crowd like yourself aren't coming down for the game?

DOD - what you don't seem to get is that the rest of the country can't stand Cork because ye can be unbearable at times (Cork hurlers, Roy Keane etc. etc). If the Munster team was based in Cork, it would have no supporters. In fact, everyone outside of Cork would support Leinster ! Munster would be the new Leinster!

Let us know your opinion why dont you...

I suppose you would rather ROG, Stringer, DOC, POM etc didnt turn up next Saturday either.

Away with you you mongrel,
You havent a clue of Munster rugby....

DOD wrote:

Sin é wrote:

DOD wrote:Good one Sin lets cater for all the fans in Dublin best argument from you yet.


I would totally agree that Dublin is lightyears behind Cork in style and substance very perceptive of you.

Also very perceptive to note that tp holds 26k. Given your argument you would think it was filled with people coming down from Dublin with a few Limerickmen thrown in. Maybe the reason the shiny shed isnt going to be filled this weekend is because all the plastic, bandwagon crowd like yourself aren't coming down for the game?

DOD - what you don't seem to get is that the rest of the country can't stand Cork because ye can be unbearable at times (Cork hurlers, Roy Keane etc. etc). If the Munster team was based in Cork, it would have no supporters. In fact, everyone outside of Cork would support Leinster ! Munster would be the new Leinster!

Let us know your opinion why dont you...

I suppose you would rather ROG, Stringer, DOC, POM etc didnt turn up next Saturday either.

Away with you you mongrel,
You havent a clue of Munster rugby....

No, I think its good that they get out of Cork every now and again and broaden their minds

I know that Webb Ellis first saw Caid being played in the Premier County

Well we do like to support the rest of the "little" counties in the province and share the talent...

Regarding the Premier county...their isnt a lot to say really without lots of laughter involved and I wouldnt want to be rude.

DOD wrote:Well we do like to support the rest of the "little" counties in the province and share the talent...

Regarding the Premier county...their isnt a lot to say really without lots of laughter involved and I wouldnt want to be rude.

Rich farmland, Home of Hurling, Lar Corbett, Rock of Cashel, Coolmore, Alan Quinlan - not so bad really.

Home of hurling might have been true about 70 years ago, seems like the golden mile out boherlahan direction is getting a bit rusty.

Some good points for sure but you do have clonmel and south tipp in general, babs and john leahy..

DOD wrote:

Sin é wrote:

roddersm wrote:Feck Sin that's terrible ! Munster and Thomond is synonymous with the HEC. I can't believe there is an apathy towards a game against last years runners up! An English team as well

Its not apathy. They can't afford to go.

Unemployment figure for Limerick city in Sept. were 16,200 (the total pop is about 56,000). Limerick would have most the clubs in Munster. Thats an awful lot of people on limited income.

As was predicted by some a few years ago...putting your primary stadium nearly 2 hours away from your largest market isnt the best business decision. Pop of Cork city and surrounds = close to 500,000, main road form Waterford, Tipp. Cork have more clubs, players and supporters than Limerick. Having ML only games in Cork has disaffected a large proportion of people who initialy got interested around 1999/2000. Once Munster went down the clubs only route for distributing tickets (unlike the more enlightened and less elitist Leinster Branch - never thought I would ever say that - who went with the Season ticket approach thereby building supporter loyalty and letting your average Joe Soap enjoy Leinster Rugby). This is why Leinster have caught up with Munster in terms of attendances in a short space of time and are now surpassing them and will continue to grow.

Munster have managed to retain supporter interest to the clubs and while they could not deal with the demand a few years back when the bandwagon was on a role they are now left with falling demand in one sector and a complete lack of ability in getting the non-club interested rugby supporter involved.

Excellent post. Elucidating.

DOD wrote:
Away with you you mongrel,
You havent a clue of Munster rugby....

Well this thread has taken an interesting twist....

Back to the point...are Munster going to beat Northampton or what? Do Munster fans even care? Is Cork an nice place?

I think it's something to be proud of however the individual teams get on.

roddersm wrote:Back to the point...are Munster going to beat Northampton or what? Do Munster fans even care? Is Cork an nice place?

Rodders I really wonder. I'm going with my brother and booked my tickets weeks ago. Then yesterday my mate gave me a ring to ask if I was headed to it etc. He then hung up the phone, walked into the Munster Rugby Store and bough himself a ticket with no problems.

Thats unheard of for a match of this nature.

Stag that really is amazing...and a little depressing. Is the economy the main factor you think? Or is it because of lower expectations by the fans this season?

I really fear for Munster in this game. Win it and they put themselves right back on the European map but lose and it could further cement their decline as an elite European force.

The Saints are a hungry side. They really want to win the HEC I think and they won't fear Munster one bit having really pushed them at Thomond 2 seasons ago. They will look to smash Munster up front.

Munster need one of their vintage fire and brimstone performances in this game I think and the crowd and atmosphere will be crucial.

Whats your take on the game?

I think it's also bad timing. The RWC just finished and for some people there is such a thing as too much rugby. If they played NH at home in January things might have been different, which is a shame for the top game in their pool.

Is there also a sense of too much success at Munster? They went almost unbeaten in the pro12 last year, which was an incredible level of consistency, but no one seemed to get all that excited about it. Too much of a good thing?

Being honest Rodders I wouldn't be surprised if we lost tomorrow but we've pulled it out of the bag enough times.

Grey - I think DOD alluded to it earlier but I think Munster market dreadfully. They let their success do the talking for them and put little effort on keeping fans in the same way that Leinster do.

Is it a case of far too many fans knowing more about away match details, and all the craic that entails? I don't want to use the B word!

Grey it is definitly bandwagon. Use it away.

Even still though uptake is poor. I work for a rugby touring operator. Munster v Castres hasn't got many followers going down to Toulouse. By contrast Connacht have a massive following headed down there.

Gee stag that is amazing to hear you say that. I never thought 2 years ago I'd hear a Munster fan say they wouldn't be surprised if they lost at Thomond in the HEC .

Losing icons like Quinlan and Flannery is obviously a big blow but there are still some massively experienced players like POC, ROG, Howlett, Botha, Leamy,Mafi etc. and talented young guys like Murray, POM and Barnes there. You are also reigning Rabo champs.

Munster have always been far more than the sum of their individual parts. I really hope they can throw a real marker down here and get some momentum going in Europe again.

This is the first Munster Heineken Cup game in 16 years that doesn't have Quinlan, Wallace or Foley playing.

The Munster Northampton game will be won by the team with the whiff of chordite in their nostrils…

And the sound of POC ringing in their ears!

The bandwagoners have gone up to galway, Heineken cup rugby and a night out in galway, its my idea of heaven.

D24tress wrote:The bandwagoners have gone up to galway, Heineken cup rugby and a night out in galway, its my idea of heaven.

+1

The bandwagonners will be disappointed, Connacht are away from home tonight

It's quite a drop from being the best supported club rugby team in Europe (the world?) to this though, not packing out your home stadium for one of the biggest matches of the calander. Your stadium isn't huge either.

The introduction with mcGahan seemed to come at the same time as this, I don't know, rot. There has been less passion or something among players and some supporters.

Apologies if that is harsh, finding it hard to word it at the moment