Cardiff Blues vs. London Irish - Heineken Cup Pool 2 Match Discussion

First topic message reminder :

This weekends Heineken Cup action kicks off on Friday night with Cardiff Blues vs. London Irish at the Cardiff City Stadium. After round one Cardiff sit atop the pool after an excellent away win in Paris, with London Irish third after a disappointing home defeat to Edinburgh.

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Cardiff Blues

Squad
Scott Andrews, Marc Breeze, James Corsi, Alex Cuthbert, Chris Czekaj, Bradley Davies, James Down, Gavin Evans, Tau Filise, Leigh Halfpenny, Luke Hamilton, Ryan Harford, Gavin Henson, Dafyyd Hewitt, Sam Hobbs, Tom James, Gethin Jenkins, Deiniol Jones, Lewis Jones, Casey Laulala, Ma'ama Molitika, Richard Mustoe, Dan Parks, Michael Paterson, Andries Pretorius, Richie Rees, Jamie Roberts, Xavier Rush, Ceri Sweeney, T.Rhys Thomas, Paul Tito, Nathan Trevett, Ryan Tyrell, Sam Warburton, Lloyd Williams, Martyn Williams, Rhys Williams, John Yapp.

Last Time Out
The Blues began this campaign with an excellent away win in Paris in round one. That result does appear to have come at a cost, with star centre Jamie Roberts possibly unavailable for this game due to injury. The Blues however will take great confidence from their showing in round one and will know that a home win this time out will put them in a very strong position in the pool.

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London Irish

Squad
Darren Allinson, Joe Ansbro, Delon Armitage, Brian Blaney, Dan Bowden, James Buckland, Bob Casey, Alex Corbisiero, Declan Danaher, Clarke Dermody, Bryn Evans, Matt Garvey, Mark George, Jamie Gibson, Alex Gray, Chris Hala'ufia, Leo Halavatau, Shontayne Hape, Paul Hodgson, Tom Homer, Paulica Ion, Adrian Jarvis, Jonathan Joseph, Nick Kennedy, Max Lahiff, Topsy Ojo, David Paice, Faan Rautenbach, Ross Samson, James Sandford, Steven Shingler, Ed Siggery, Jebb Sinclair, David Sisi, Jonathan Spratt, Sailosi Tagicakibau, Adam Thompstone, Richard Thorpe.

Last Time Out
Irish managed to lose a 19-10 lead to be beaten by a point at home to Edinburgh in round one, and in reality it could have been a bigger margin with Tim Visser harshly being disallowed a try by the TMO. Shontayne Hape has also been cited for a tackle on David Denton and with his hearing on Thursday Irish could well lose their first choice 12 for this one as well, which given that it is a must win game for them may prove to be a fatal blow to their chances in the pool.

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Summary

On paper this game is Cardiff Blues' to lose. Although they are missing one or two players through injury, Irish are missing almost an entire back division and do not have the same strength in depth as the Blues. Up front the Irish pack will need to perform with a lot more intensity at the tackle area than they did last time out if they are to live with a Blues pack containing Welsh World Cup stars Gethin Jenkins, Bradley Davies and Sam Warburton.

If any Blues fans have any team/injury news please post here and I will do the same for Irish.

How do people see this one going?

Morgannwg wrote:Week two of sloppy play from the Blues and a scrum getting mulloured for most of the game, surely areas for concern?

Didn't think the tackle on Hewitt was too bad, he twisted and made it look worse. Felt sorry for Shingler and I think everyone would have settled for a yellow at the most.

His head was driven into the ground - the ref had to give a straight red tbh.


Blues scrum has been a problem for about 10 seasons now.

At the end of the season when all our oldies retire, we NEED to bring in the best THP we can afford and a decent no10 (and Delve hopefully)

here we go, another red - rolland what have you done?

let us not forget that the " tip tackle" (stupid name) isn't a new ruling - so why reds and yellows and citings - where as everyone was hapy with a penalty before?

wales606 wrote:

Morgannwg wrote:Week two of sloppy play from the Blues and a scrum getting mulloured for most of the game, surely areas for concern?

Didn't think the tackle on Hewitt was too bad, he twisted and made it look worse. Felt sorry for Shingler and I think everyone would have settled for a yellow at the most.

His head was driven into the ground - the ref had to give a straight red tbh.


Blues scrum has been a problem for about 10 seasons now.

At the end of the season when all our oldies retire, we NEED to bring in the best THP we can afford and a decent no10 (and Delve hopefully)

Sorry I disagree about him driving him into the ground ... the more I look at the replays the more it looks like after the initial contact the Cardiff player actually jumps up slightly off his left leg as he tries to twist around and back to lay the ball off ... it doesn't look like Shingler has a tight enough hold on him to be doing much lifting and driving down - it looks more like he's just carried over with their combined momentum and just holds on and they both end up on the ground

Mad for Chelsea wrote:sure it was a red, and I'd imagine he'd get about five weeks or so, maybe more, but I agree with Heaf's (and Sanderson's) analysis. He didn't drive him into the ground, he was trying to drive him backwards but lost control of the tackle. Middle-range offense for me.

As for the ref, the Blues were offside after most rucks too, but because they don't do the rush defense it was less obvious. They were always creeping a yard or two over the line. Also, they are ways to beat the rush defense, esp. if they're a man short. Get people running the short ball into the gaps, throw the cut-ut passes attacking from deep, cross-field kicks, etc. The fact the Blues didn't do this does indeed suggest the stratedy was wrong as wales 606 said earlier.

That said, the Blues deserved to win, but Irish certainly deserved a BP for their efforts.

Well have to agree to disagree soz

maybe not as bad as it first looked, but still a red card. I knew it as soon as it happened, you could tell from the whistle blast too that the red card was coming. Blues do need to sort out their scrum, Irish have a good scrum but not anywhere near the best in the prem, and they absolutely killed them in that area tonight.

Awful game, poor crowd. Best part of it was the free bus home from the stadium. Plenty of banter.

There is a lot of hypocrisy here about this tackle and subsequent Red Card. I have watched the incident and it was:

• Clearly not malicious, once Shingler realised what had happened he held his head in his hands!

• Hewit was not injured in any way, once he hit the ground he got up and played the ball immediately.

• It was a “Tip Tackle” but not a “Spear Tackle” ie. The tackled player landed on his head and shoulders but was not driven or dropped into the ground.

• I have no doubt that the Blazers will ban young Shingler of 4 to 6 weeks.

Warburton’s tackle on the World Cup was far more serious (player dropped and apparently injured from the fall). On these boards there was a hue and cry about the Red Card………the worst refereeing decision ever!

But for this less serous incident the same posters are saying Red was right!

The IRB needs to sort this out, spear tackle, yes Red Card. Unintentional tip tackle, yellow or penalty.

4 week ban for Shingler

well I said five weeks or so, so I wasn't far off

seems about right to me (assuming he got a smaller ban for previous good behaviour?)

I feel sorry for both SW and Shingler, obviously neither intended any harm. I guess maybe it's worth a few of these if players learn not to take people off their feet and up.

I thought Shingler's initial tackle was awesome - Daf Hewitt was coming at quite a lick and he stopped him dead - but then he did lift.

the problem is lifting a player is dangerous. I agree they were both unlucky in a way, in that IMO there wasn't any malicious intent in either of the tackles, but the tackler "lost control" of the tackle (SW because he was expecting a forward and got little old Clerc, and Shingler possibly because Hewitt tried to twist out of it). Unfortunately players need to learn that if they lift players they need to get them back down safely, and a policy of zero-tolerance is the best way to accomplish that.

I agree - neither player meant any harm, and it is difficult to stop lifting when tackling at pace and with all the body weight going into it. Like BlueNote I thought his initial tackle was awesome, stopped Hewitt dead , but then he lifted him for some reason and then twisted so that Hewitts weight was all on his neck before letting him go.

For me that last bit was worse than Warbs, and under current rules deserved the ban - but to me the current rules are nonsense and they need to realise there is a clear difference between hitting a player hard in the tackle which results in that player coming off the floor And a tackle intended to injury where a tackler lifts a player and drives them straight into the ground head first.

yes but they judge that difference in the bans they dish out after the game. A real spear tackle (where the player is deliberately driven head/neck first into the ground) would result in a longer ban.

But this system still seems as if it will result in an inordinately high number of bans and many could well be for tackles where there was no injury or malice

No issue with the ban, its about the right length, no intent but rules are rules.

However Hape's ban of 4 weeks for his tackle in the Edinburgh game of 4 weeks seems very harsh considering it was boderline (personally didn't think it was high but not seen a replay apart from striaght after it when i had my London Irish glasses on). Especially considering Mike McCarthy of Connacht only got 2 weeks for a clear high tackle on vincent clerc.

Consistency is needed especially within the same competition.