London Irish vs. Edinburgh - Heineken Cup Pool 2 Discussion

So the start of this seasons premier Northern Hemisphere rugby tournament is now upon us. In Pool 2, my team, the mighty London Irish host Edinburgh on Saturday so here is a look at that fixture, and the history of both sides in the Heineken Cup.

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London Irish

Squad
Darren Allinson, Joe Ansbro, Delon Armitage, Brian Blaney, Dan Bowden, James Buckland, Bob Casey, Alex Corbisiero, Declan Danaher, Clarke Dermody, Bryn Evans, Matt Garvey, Mark George, Jamie Gibson, Alex Gray, Chris Hala'ufia, Leo Halavatau, Shontayne Hape, Paul Hodgson, Tom Homer, Paulica Ion, Adrian Jarvis, Jonathan Joseph, Nick Kennedy, Max Lahiff, Topsy Ojo, David Paice, Faan Rautenbach, Ross Samson, James Sandford, Steven Shingler, Ed Siggery, Jebb Sinclair, David Sisi, Jonathan Spratt, Sailosi Tagicakibau, Adam Thompstone, Richard Thorpe.

Heineken Cup History
London Irish made their first entry into the competition in the 2002/03 season and were drawn in pool 5 with Toulouse, Newport and this weeks opponents Edinburgh. Their first meeting was in R2, when Irish won 24-8 at home. 5 players who featured for the sides that day remain, Declan Danaher for Irish, and Allan Jacobsen, Dougie Hall, Mike Blair and Chris Paterson for Edinburgh. The return fixture saw a 32-35 win for Edinburgh in R5, but neither team qualified for the knockout stages.

Irish then had to wait until 2006/07 before qualifying again for the competition, but have qualified for the tournament in 4 of the 5 years since then. Their best performance came in 2007/08 when they topped a pool containing French giants Perpignan, before beating them again in the quarter finals. They were then defeated by Toulouse in the semi final. Their overall tournament record reads as follows.

P 32 W 15 D 1 L 16 TF 80 TA 65 PF 746 PA 640

Form This Season
The Exiles sit 3rd in the Aviva Premiership after 8 matches. In terms of results it has been a mixed bag, with 3 wins, 1 draw and 4 defeats. What has helped to elevate them to such a high position in the table is bonus points, as they have taken and LBP every time they have been beaten and have 6 bonus points in total, the most in the division.
They come into this game off the back of a 24-24 draw with Leicester Tigers at Welford Road, where they came from 7-24 down with 15 minutes to play, and so will most likely feel reasonably confident of their ability to dig in get something from most games going forward.

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Edinburgh

Squad
Alex Black, Mike Blair, Tom Brown, Ben Cairns, Sean Cox, Geoff Cross, Nick De Luca, David Denton, ross Ford, Grant Gilchrist, Jack Gilding, Phil Godman, Roddy Grant, Robin Hislop, John Houston, Gregor Hunter, Allan Jacobsen, Lee Jones, Andrew Kelly, James King, Greig Laidlaw, Steve Lawrie, Chris Leck, Harry Leonard, Esteban Lozada, Alan MacDonald, Stuart McInally, Lewis Niven, Chris Paterson, Ross Rennie, Matt Scott, Netani Talei, Jim Thompson, Kyle Traynor, Steve Turnbull, Tim Visser, Alun Walker, Simon Webster.

Heineken Cup History
Edinburgh made their Heineken Cup debut in 1996/97 and have played in every tournament since then with the exception of 1997/98. As stated above they have played London Irish twice, with one win apiece in 2002/03, but overall their record in the competion has to be considered as poor.

They have only qualified from the Pool stage once in fourteen attempts, when in 2003/04 they qualified as a best runner up, and were rewarded for their efforts with an away quarter final in Toulouse, which resulted in a 10-36 defeat. Their overall tournament record reads as follows.

P 83 W 28 D 3 L 52 TF 152 TA 230 PF 1504 PA 2125

Form This Season
Edinburgh lie 10th in the RaboDirect PRO12 league after 8 matches this season, with a record of 3 wins and 5 defeats. They are yet to pick up a try bonus point despite having one fo the most potent attacking weapons int he league in Tim Visser, and in 3 of their defeats have failed to get within 7 points and collect a losing bonus point.

Their most recent result was a 22-11 win away at Benetton Treviso, which is not an easy place to get a result, and should give them great confidence that they can pick up points on the road, which they will need to do in order to qualify.

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Summary
Overall, if you look at the two teams records this season so far, there isn't much to choose between them other than the fact when London Irish win, they usually score some tries and get a bonus point, and when they lose, they also seem to get close and claim the LBP as well.

If Edinburgh are to win, they will need to find a way to stop what can be a very potent backs division for Irish, which can score tries from scraps at times, and for Irish to be confident of claiming the points, they will need their forwards to front up in the set piece and give thema platform to launch attacks from.

I am biased of course, but I can't see Irish losing at home, and if the team can step up from last weekend, particularly in the pack it could be a bonus point win as well.

Interested to hear everyone elses thoughts on the game, any team news out of Edinburgh, and I will update with any team/injury news from London Irish as and when I get any.

I think there is a bit more between these teams than you say. I was quite surprised by Edinburgh's win at the weekend as Treviso had been playing well up to that.

Irish to win this one comfortably (12-18 points)

I reckon this will be a close match. I await to see who Bradley will pick but I will be delighted if Edinburgh can stay within a bonus point. They have the ability to do that but I think the Intensity Irish showed at the weekend to fight back to a draw will be something that I don't think Edinburgh could live with.

Pete, didn't you mention that the Irish backline is carrying some fairly hefty injuries? I hope Bradley keeps with his belief in the talented youngsters - HC is a step up from Rabo and it'll be great to see these young guys on this stage. Edinburgh'spack strikes me as a little light weight, but that's also often levelled at Irish's too

I was awaiting an injury update As.

On top of Losi, Topsy, JJ and Marland all being crocked (unsure as to whether Losi and Topsy will be fit or not this weekend having limped off on Saturday), it appears that Tom Homer has also been unable to train today which would be a real worry for us.

Our pack has lacked ball carriers at times with Hala'ufia missing, but Sinclair showed up well at the weekend and is likely to start at 8, and Garvey being back is huge for us.

Big dilema for Booth at loosehead, where club captain Clark Dermody played for the A team last night after injury, and we also have Corbisiero and Lahiff in the mix.

One potentially large problem for us is that of our 3 scrum halfs listed in the squad, 2 are injured, so we may have to take someone out and add England U18 star Jack Moates to the squad in order to have cover on the bench.

No reports from Edinburgh of any new injuries - Cairns out for season, big loss, Mossy took a knock against Leinster which kept him out last weekend and one or two players who haven't featured for a while. I would expect a similar side to last weekend, possibly with Lozada making way. Hopefully Bradley isn't tempted to bring back Godman.

Well Delon won't be playing for us, just been banned for 5 weeks!

That had me worried for a moment, glanced at it in the pub and read Delon as Denton, hopefully the latter will play.

If i was guessing, this would be the Irish team

1 Corbisiero
2 Paice
3 Ion
4 Evans
5 Kennedy
6 Danaher
7 Gibson
8 Sinclair
9 Allinson
10 Bowden
11 Tagicakibau/Ojo
12 Hape
13 Shingler
14 Thompstone
15 Homer

That is providing Homer, Tagi and Allinson are match fit. If either Tagi or Ojo aren't match fit, Thompstone will start.

My Edinburgh team would look something like this. Although I suspect Paterson will probably displace Thompson at 15, although I would not like to see that TBH.

15 Thompson
14 Jones
13 de Luca
12 Scott
11 Visser
10 Leonard
9 Laidlaw [CAPTAIN]

1 Jacobsen
2 Ford
3 Cross
4 Lozada
5 Gilchrist
6 McInally
7 Rennie
8 Denton

You would expect London Irish to win this one. They'll be buoyed by their draw against Leicester at WR.

London Irish are the kings of inconsistency shown by their recent results.

Should have beaten Bath at home but shouldn't have come back from 17 points down at WR against a full strength Leicester.

If London Irish could be consistent they would be a force to be reckoned with.

As I said I would be pretty happy with a bonus point loss here. Although there is a chance that Edinburgh can win the game if our backs can get good ball. Although the Exiles defence has been pretty solid so far this season.

It depends which London Irish side turns up. They could well get a try bonus point if the backline fires.

Then again they might implode. Who knows?

... and how much of the backline is fit to play

The Bowden/Hape axis has started well and I expect them to cause Edinburgh some trouble.

If Bowden gets good quick ball, Irish should win as he is capable of tearing apart any defence.

stnick88 wrote:That is providing Homer, Tagi and Allinson are match fit. If either Tagi or Ojo aren't match fit, Thompstone will start.

StNick, who would their alternatives be?

Samson over Allinson - very unproven player but did quite well against Leicester on Saturday.

Anthony Watson is the only other alternative to play in the back 3.

I'm sure 1 or 2 out of Homer, Ojo and Tagi will be fit as none have serious injuries just knocks. Joe Ansbro might also be back and could fill in.

Sounds like Losi is defintely out, and not sure on Topsy yet, but Joe Ansbro is fit, so if Topsy is out I suspect a potential backline of

9. Samson/Allinson
10. Bowden
11. Thompstone
12. Hape
13. Shingler
14. Ansbro
15. Homer

http://www.getreading.co.uk/sport/rugby/london_irish/s/2103049_joe_ansbro_boost_for_london_irish

Sounds like this is as good a time as any to be playing London Irish with all the injuries. I'm hoping for at least a losing bonus point but am not entirely confident!

How is Ross Samson doing by the way? He was our 3rd choice scrum half before he left for LI!

he's our 3rd choice as well at present. Made his debut against Leicester on Saturday and looked decent enough. Early days for him yet though.

Quietly confident about this one now

Slightly less confident now.

Ozzy - what you on about??

Edinburgh team:

15 Jim Thompson

14 Lee Jones
13 Nick de Luca
12 Matt Scott
11 Tim Visser

10 Harry Leonard
9 Mike Blair

1 Allan Jacobsen
2 Ross Ford CAPTAIN
3 Geoff Cross
4 Esteban Lozada
5 Grant Gilchrist
6 David Denton
7 Ross Rennie
8 Stuart McInally

Substitutes
16 Steven Lawrie
17 Kyle Traynor
18 Lewis Niven
19 Sean Cox
20 Roddy Grant
21 Greig Laidlaw
22 James King
23 Tom Brown

There were a couple of players who at half nine this morning I thought would be fit and in the team, who I am now aware are not going to be fit and therefore not in the team.

Interesting that he has kept the club captain, Laidlaw, on the bench. Glad he's kept faith with Leonard though!

Mcinally the only change at 8. Yet to be fully convinced by him as he is quite small for an 8, but at least he's a lot bigger than Roddy Grant when he played there!

Pretty happy overall and I hope that backline gets a lot of game time this season as I can see it being quite potent if they get lots of experience playing together.

Ozzy3213 wrote:Slightly less confident now.

Pete, make your mind up, man

Ozzy3213 wrote:There were a couple of players who at half nine this morning I thought would be fit and in the team, who I am now aware are not going to be fit and therefore not in the team.

Name names, pls?

PM for As

What's with the secrecy??

No official announcement yet, RDW?

Yeah but who is he going to offend by saying publicly on these boards which LI players have been ruled out??

RDW

Our first choice backline is

15. Armitage
14. Ojo
13. Joseph
12. Hape
11. Tagicakibau
10. Bowden
9. Samson

If my information correct, there will only be two of those playing tomorrow. team announcement is in about 15 minutes, so we'll know for sure then. Might well prove to be a good time for Edinburgh to be playing us, as I would fancy that backline to cut Edinburgh to shreds if we gained parity up front.

My Edinburgh pick was pretty spot on, only change is Denton and McInally swapping at 6/8. Edinburgh will give the exiles a stern test but I think LI to come out winners.

Hope I am wrong.

RDW_Scotland wrote:Edinburgh team:

15 Jim Thompson

14 Lee Jones
13 Nick de Luca
12 Matt Scott
11 Tim Visser

10 Harry Leonard
9 Mike Blair

1 Allan Jacobsen
2 Ross Ford CAPTAIN
3 Geoff Cross
4 Esteban Lozada
5 Grant Gilchrist
6 David Denton
7 Ross Rennie
8 Stuart McInally

Substitutes
16 Steven Lawrie
17 Kyle Traynor
18 Lewis Niven
19 Sean Cox
20 Roddy Grant
21 Greig Laidlaw
22 James King
23 Tom Brown

Units of strength = front row, back row and back three, plus very exciting young backline - great experience for Leonard & Scott

Is that really the team?? Awesome if it is.

Surprised that CP isn't included on the bench ahead of Brown - assume that's an injury. Similarly assume that Talei is carrying a knock.

That's a great side for Scottish rugby. Full of established internationals and up and coming youngsters. Only Lozada and Visser (for now) not Scots qualified.

FES - yeah that's the team.

Agreed, if that team can stay together for the next 2 or 3 year it will be pretty good for Scotland. Throw in a beast of a 2nd row in there and a better subs bench and we're sorted!

RDW, sounds like Gilchrist could turn into a beast for you - 18-odd stone, 6'7", athletic, etc.?

I think ultimately Cox may usurp Lozada but ASBO is right, Gilchrist could do a fantastic turn for Edinburgh. Give that lad a 10 year contract I say with a whopping great break fee!!

Yeah he's a big lad but he's not very fit and hasn't really grown into his frame yet. Quite often you see him around the 60 minute mark lumbering around the park and going off the boil. Plus you want your enforcer to be a mean hombre and he is a bit to soft for my liking!

That's maybe a bit harsh because he is very young, and the good thing is he is young and his fitness and general athleticism will improve with time. Look at Richie Gray - couple of years ago you could probably say them same about him but look at him now.

I think at 21 the benefit of the doubt ought to be given. Gray is a good example of what can happen, on the otherhand there's Turnbull, who never really punches his weight.

Really really looking forward to seeing that backline in action. London Irish like an open game, as do Edinburgh, so let's hope we see a classic.

Unfortunately I'll be playing rugby at the same time so won't be able to watch it!

RDW_Scotland wrote:Plus you want your enforcer to be a mean hombre and he is a bit to soft for my liking!

RDW, why don't you go punch him on the nose, see if that toughens him up a bit?!

London Irish team...

15. Tom Homer; 14.Topsy Ojo*; 13. Steven Shingler; 12.Shontayne Hape*; 11.Adam Thompstone; 10. Dan Bowden (Captain); 9. Ross Samson; 1.Alex Corbisiero*; 2. James Buckland; 3.Paulica Ion*; 4. Nick Kennedy*; 5. Matt Garvey; 6. Bryn Evans*; 7.Jamie Gibson; 8. Jebb Sinclair*

Replacements:

16. Brian Blaney; 17. Max Lahiff; 18.Faan Rautenbach*; 19. James Sandford; 20. Richard Thorpe; 21. Joe Ansbro*; 22. Adrian Jarvis; 23.Paul Hodgson*

Reasonably happy with that side. On difference to the starting XV from what I had heard. I think if we get parity up front we have enough in the backs to cause Edinburgh problems.

Hmmmm, stern old test this for Edinburgh. Kennedy will keep Ford's throwing honest, and that Irish backline is full of running and power. All big strike runners working off Bowden. The Edinburgh backs are fast but other than Visser not that big. Big challenge.

Gibson against Rennie will be a real battle as well. Gibson was very good against Leicester, and Rennie an international openside.

fES

Our lineout has been woeful the last two weeks, albeit Kendo didn't play against Tigers. Having him back and Evans in the back row means that everyone from 4-8 is s decent lineout jumper, so will be itnerestign to see if we can put some pressure on Ford in that regard.

really looking forward to this game.

I thought Kennedy was sorely missed against the Tigers. A forgotten man of English rugby Nick Kennedy. A couple of seasons back the Sky crew had him pencilled in to play for England.

For me he is still the best line-out man in the English game (until Gray joins Sale )

For me he is still the best line-out man in the English game

I'll take Geoff Parling every day of the week.