Challenge Cup Pool 5: London Irish v Edinburgh Rugby, 12 December

by **George Carlin** Sun 06 Dec 2015, 6:41 am

Challenge Cup Pool 5: London Irish v Edinburgh Rugby, 12 December Edinbu11

London Irish v Edinburgh Rugby
Saturday 12 December 2015
KO: 15:00
Madejski Stadium, Reading

Live on [tbc]

Referee Leighton Hodges (Wales)
Touch Judge 1 Neil Hennessy (Wales)
Touch Judge 2 Rhys Thomas (Wales)
Fourth Official Dean Richards (England)
Assessor Martin Fox (England)
Citing Commissioner Alberto Recaldini (Italy)

A. Head to Head

1 Played 1
0 Wins 1
1 Losses 0
0 Draws 0
18 Points 23

B. Recent Form

Sunday 5 April 2015
London Irish 18 - 23 Edinburgh

C. Teams

London Irish
Challenge Cup Pool 5: London Irish v Edinburgh Rugby, 12 December Guinne10

Challenge Cup Pool 5: London Irish v Edinburgh Rugby, 12 December Guinne10

15. Sean Maitland*; 14. Alex Lewington; 13. Aseli Tikoirotuma*; 12. Johnny Williams; 11. Andrew Fenby; 10. Shane Geraghty*; 9. Brendan McKibbin; 1. Tom Court*; 2. Gerard Ellis; 3. Ben Franks*; 4. Eoin Sheriff; 5. Jebb Sinclair*; 6. Luke Narraway (Captain)*; 7. Conor Gilsenan; 8. Ofisa Treviranus*

16. Jimmy Stevens; 17. Tom Smallbone; 18. Leo Halavatau; 19. David Sis; 20. Blair Cowan*; 21. Darren Allinson; 22. Theo Brophy Clews; 23. Dominic Waldouck

Edinburgh Rugby
Challenge Cup Pool 5: London Irish v Edinburgh Rugby, 12 December Cockta10

Challenge Cup Pool 5: London Irish v Edinburgh Rugby, 12 December Cockta10

15 Dougie Fife
14 Tom Brown
13 Michael Allen
12 Andries Strauss
11 Otulea Katoa
10 Greig Tonks
9 Nathan Fowles

1 Rory Sutherland
2 Neil Cochrane (captain)
3 John Andress
4 Anton Bresler
5 Alex Toolis
6 Jamie Ritchie
7 Hamish Watson
8 Cornell Du Preez

16 George Turner
17 Grant Shiells
18 Simon Berghan
19 Magnus Bradbury
20 Chris Dean
21 Sam Hidalgo-Clyne
22 Blair Kinghorn
23 Damien Hoyland

by **George Carlin** Sun 06 Dec 2015, 1:16 pm

by Margin_Walker Sun 06 Dec 2015, 3:01 pm

Ha, being a LI is pretty painful so far this season. Sure we'll have more to say at the weekend.

by exileray Sun 06 Dec 2015, 4:33 pm

I'm sure we will have plenty to say, but can it be put in to print....... Very Happy

by **Ozzy3213** Sun 06 Dec 2015, 8:59 pm

What sort of side are Edinburgh likely to put out George. I understand that the Pro12 campaign is not going brilliantly. Are they likely to focus on this competition as a means to getting into the Champions Cup next season?

by yappysnap Sun 06 Dec 2015, 9:03 pm

I think Irish will win this

by **Ozzy3213** Sun 06 Dec 2015, 9:07 pm

Not if we play like we did yesterday we won't.

by justified sinner Sun 06 Dec 2015, 9:22 pm

Shame we let Visser go to Quinn. Whistle

by justified sinner Sun 06 Dec 2015, 9:26 pm

Realistically, I expect Edinburgh to rest a few players for this. We've got a number of injury problems, I think 14 out at the moment. Plus we need to rest some of the front row, so I predict an LI win.

by TJ Sun 06 Dec 2015, 9:45 pm

Ozzy3213 wrote:What sort of side are Edinburgh likely to put out George. I understand that the Pro12 campaign is not going brilliantly. Are they likely to focus on this competition as a means to getting into the Champions Cup next season?

Edinburgh will put out their usual team I guess. world class front row, show ponies the rest of the pack and one dimensional slow or lightweight backs - and again play without a ten ( cos we don't have one)

by **Ozzy3213** Sun 06 Dec 2015, 10:17 pm

Should be an entertaining game with both teams devoid of a 10.

by TJ Sun 06 Dec 2015, 10:34 pm

Ozzy3213 wrote:Should be an entertaining game with both teams devoid of a 10.

by **George Carlin** Mon 07 Dec 2015, 6:10 am

Ozzy3213 wrote:What sort of side are Edinburgh likely to put out George. I understand that the Pro12 campaign is not going brilliantly. Are they likely to focus on this competition as a means to getting into the Champions Cup next season?

Solomons is an increasingly singular coach, Ozzy and the answer to your question depends on the approach he takes.

His normal view is that his first choice 23 should play almost all of every game unless they keel over or die.

Any normal coach would rest key players for this game, but he usually confounds expectations in these circumstances and names a first choice side anyway.

It isn't that Edinburgh are doing badly in the league - just that they have followed up some very good wins with some very soft losses.

Their game plan is clear - the Edinburgh front row (which is, of course, the Scotland front row which had a great World Cup) is as good as any in Europe and produces a steady slew of scrum penalties and usually a guaranteed yellow card for anyone facing off against Willem Nel on the tighthead side. Edinburgh is still missing a key lock in Ben Toolis but other than that, Edinburgh is strongest when it comes to loose forwards and they have an embarrassment of international talent. The pack is stellar and it is this which meant Edinburgjh claimed some major scalps at the start of this season.

The problem is in the backline, where they generally possess about a tenth of the talent that the forwards do and seem unable to be coached into giving up their allergy to scoring tries. If Irish can keep the ball in play and stay away from the set piece, then that would be the best tactic.

The last thing to say is that judging by the press releases from this season, Edinburgh is proud of being runners-up last year and so should be taking this tournament seriously.

by funnyExiledScot Mon 07 Dec 2015, 8:41 am

George Carlin wrote:The last thing to say is that judging by the press releases from this season, Edinburgh is proud of being runners-up last year and so should be taking this tournament seriously.

Quite right. The 1872 Cup has taught us over the years that runners-up places are not to be sniffed at.

The Ulster game was brutal in those conditions, at the very least Solomons shoull rest the starting front row, Cornell Du Preez and probably John Hardie as well.

Hopefully Nasi Manu can be fit, as replacing Du Preez and Hardie with Manu and Watson doesn't overly bother me. I don't care if Coman is rested or not....

I would pick the following XV to start:

1.Sutherland 2.Cochrane 3.Andress 4.Bresler 5.A Toolis 6.Coman 7.Watson 8.Manu 9.Hidalgo-Clyne 10.Burleigh 11.Brown 12.Strauss 13.Beard 14.Fife 15.Kinghorn

I'd be fine with a LBP off this game.

by **RDW** Mon 07 Dec 2015, 9:07 am

Surely Solomons needs to rest players - surely!!

Challenge Cup Pool 5: London Irish v Edinburgh Rugby, 12 December F48yt35

Our front row and Du Preez have been heavily worked this season so far, and there is a long way to go, but they are in desperate need of a rest. Burleigh has played a lot of rugby too.

There really is no real reason not to rest the front row given the reserve lot are certainly good enough to play a struggling LI team. The problem comes at back row - Coman picked up a head knock and Manu's return date is unkown. Bradbury needs to be brought back from the 7s - if anything I think Ritchie should have been there instead of him, we could have done with Bradbury's extra bulk over the winter period.

The final thing is, out of the entire season this is the one game where it really doesn't matter if we lose - I think we'll still have enough to qualify for the QFs and even top the group.

My team:

Suterhland
Cochrane
Andress
Bresler
McKenzie / Toolis (rest Toolis)
Grant
Watson
Bradbury/Coman/Ritchie

Hidalgo-Clyne
Tonks
Brown
Beard
Allan (let's see what he's got)
Fife
Kinghorn

Subs: Dell, Turner, Berghan, Toolis, Ritchie/Coman/Bradbury, Kennedy, Strauss, Cuthbert

Aside from resting the front line, I'd actually really like to see how some of those players get on!

by EWT Spoons Mon 07 Dec 2015, 9:17 am

All logic suggests we should rest some players for this game, like RDW and FES have said, however this is Allan 'if he's not dead he can play' Sollomans we're talking about here, and sadly I fully expect to see Dicko, Ford and Nel lining up. For clarity I would much much rather give those boys a rest (along with Du Preez and Hardie) and see what Sutherland, Cochrane and Berghan/Andress could do, but it just seems unlikely.

I'd also like to see Kinghorn actually start a game at 10. I realise we're playing him at FB to give him gametime, but would be good if he actually got a run out in his preferred position.

Team I'd put out:

Sutherland,
Cochrane
Nel
Bresler
Toolis
Coman (if fit)
Watson
Manu

SHC
Kinghorn

Fife
Burleigh
Beard
Helu
Brown

by funnyExiledScot Mon 07 Dec 2015, 9:17 am

Is Tonks fit? If so then agreed he should start at 10 in place of Burleigh. If Tonks isn't fit would you risk Te Rure??

I'm not too worried about resting Alex Toolis. He's been waiting to play for ages and once his brother and Gilchrist return, he'll get plenty time off. I'm not worried about him burning out, plus he's playing really well at the moment.

I thought Grant had already retired? Agreed on bringing back Bradbury. With Manu out we need another 8.

by **RDW** Mon 07 Dec 2015, 9:22 am

Te Rure is still injured I think.

Grant is still playing - the chat is he'll retire at the end of the season. This game is exactly the situation we need him in the squad.

I'd also be happy to see Kinghorn given a shot at 10 - I just can't see Solomons doing it!

by VinceWLB Mon 07 Dec 2015, 9:36 am

What is Bradbury even doing at the 7's in the first place? I could understand an openside playing there but a blindside/8? Anyway what a waste of resources the 7's have been over the years.

by funnyExiledScot Mon 07 Dec 2015, 9:38 am

Agree on Kinghorn. I think Solomons will keep him away from the 10 jersey this season and let him settle in from 15.

If Grant is still on the go then he should certainly play this one. He's had quite a stretch of games not being involved, so he'll need a good 80 minutes. He and Watson on the flanks, with one of Manu/Bradbury at 8 should suffice. I really don't want Du Preez to have to play yet another game.

by **RDW** Mon 07 Dec 2015, 9:43 am

VinceWLB wrote:What is Bradbury even doing at the 7's in the first place? I could understand an openside playing there but a blindside/8? Anyway what a waste of resources the 7's have been over the years.

I don't think he even played that much.

Madness.

by **George Carlin** Mon 07 Dec 2015, 10:02 am

On the upside, Quins' Robbie Nairn had a pretty fair first outing in Dubai.

That boy is quick.

by **RDW** Mon 07 Dec 2015, 10:08 am

George Carlin wrote:On the upside, Quins' Robbie Nairn had a pretty fair first outing in Dubai.

That boy is quick.

You seen any highlights of Scotland's game?

by funnyExiledScot Mon 07 Dec 2015, 10:51 am

George Carlin wrote:On the upside, Quins' Robbie Nairn had a pretty fair first outing in Dubai.

That boy is quick.

Pleased to hear it. We need to develop more pacy wingers to challenge Visser, Maitland and Seymour. With Hogg at 15 and Bennett at 13 the time is right to finally put pace on the Scotland wings. No more Danielli, Lamont and Walker please.

by SirBurger Mon 07 Dec 2015, 9:49 pm

Hoping to see:

1. Smallbone
2. Ellis
3. Franks
4. Skivington
5. Symons
6. Treviranus
7. Cowan
8. Guest

9. McKibbin
10. Brophy Clews
11. Tikoirotuma
12. Williams
13. Griffin
14. Lewington
15. Maitland

Bench: Cruse, Court, Aulika, Sinclair, Trayfoot, Steele, Noakes, Fowlie

by **RDW** Mon 07 Dec 2015, 10:04 pm

Reckon LI will target this one then? Rest players for the return leg?

by Margin_Walker Mon 07 Dec 2015, 10:15 pm

Skivs still at least a week away according to Coventry on the Offie SirB. Symons should be fine though.

Definitely like the idea of giving TBC a start at 10 as while we should be targeting the game to an extent, the league is pretty much everything now. No point getting to the knock out stages if we get relegated. I can see him starting a few games in 2016 at this rate. Tiks (especially) and Lewington have played a lot of rugby, so it may be an opportunity to rotate a bit there and bring Fenby in for one of them.

by **RDW** Thu 10 Dec 2015, 8:59 am

Newspaper reports suggesting Solomons is going to rest all the internationalists that have been playing a lot recently.

Good!

I hope that extends to Du Preez too.

by VinceWLB Thu 10 Dec 2015, 9:08 am

That will be a very weakened team then. And i don't care to be fair as it will give the fringe players a chance to show what they can do and the league is so much more important anyway. Despite the loss to Ulster and the final being at Murrayfield which is a big boost i still think Edinburgh can push on and get a top 4 finish.

Hope we can see Richie and Bradbury.

by **RDW** Thu 10 Dec 2015, 9:22 am

As I said previously - if there is one game over the whole season that really doesn't matter if we lose then it is this one.

If he plays any of our overworked front line players for this then he really is mad!

Of course he could go for a 50/50 approach - rest half of them this week and half next week. I don't think that would be the best idea though as you stand the risk of losing both, whereas I'd be confident of our 1st choice definitely winning at home next week.

by **George Carlin** Thu 10 Dec 2015, 9:23 am

RDW_Scotland wrote:Newspaper reports suggesting Solomons is going to rest all the internationalists that have been playing a lot recently.

Challenge Cup Pool 5: London Irish v Edinburgh Rugby, 12 December Shocke10

by funnyExiledScot Thu 10 Dec 2015, 9:26 am

Shall I do the honours:

What are the teams up?

Is this on TV?

by **RDW** Thu 10 Dec 2015, 9:28 am

funnyExiledScot wrote:Shall I do the honours:

What are the teams up?

Is this on TV?

Lunchtime today most likely.

Nope.

by **RDW** Thu 10 Dec 2015, 12:04 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:
funnyExiledScot wrote:Shall I do the honours:

What are the teams up?

Is this on TV?

Lunchtime today most likely.

Nope.

Apologies - just noticed the game is on Saturday so the team will be out tomorrow.

by funnyExiledScot Thu 10 Dec 2015, 12:35 pm

I can't believe they aren't televising this. Two very mediocre teams playing in a fixture that we openly concede that we don't care about.....

by funnyExiledScot Fri 11 Dec 2015, 12:06 pm

Edinburgh Rugby team v London Irish, Saturday 12 December, Madejski Stadium, k/o 3pm

15 Dougie Fife
14 Tom Brown
13 Michael Allen
12 Andries Strauss
11 Otulea Katoa
10 Greig Tonks
9 Nathan Fowles

1 Rory Sutherland
2 Neil Cochrane (captain)
3 John Andress
4 Anton Bresler
5 Alex Toolis
6 Jamie Ritchie
7 Hamish Watson
8 Cornell Du Preez

16 George Turner
17 Grant Shiells
18 Simon Berghan
19 Magnus Bradbury
20 Chris Dean
21 Sam Hidalgo-Clyne
22 Blair Kinghorn
23 Damien Hoyland

Players not considered due to injury: Grant Gilchrist (groin), Roddy Grant (knee), Nasi Manu (neck), Stuart McInally (neck), Fraser McKenzie (neck), Jade Te Rure (lack of ability), Ben Toolis (arm).

by funnyExiledScot Fri 11 Dec 2015, 12:07 pm

Really pleased with that line-up, and great that our front row have been given the weekend off completely. Du Preez starts but hopefully Bradbury can come off the bench around the 60 minute mark.

by funnyExiledScot Fri 11 Dec 2015, 12:10 pm

...and for those fixated on Scottish teams only deploying "time serving foreigners", that squad of 23 contains 6 NSQ players.

by BamBam Fri 11 Dec 2015, 12:12 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:...and for those fixated on Scottish teams only deploying "time serving foreigners", that squad of 23 contains 6 NSQ players.

6!!! How bloody dare you!!!

by Margin_Walker Fri 11 Dec 2015, 12:13 pm

LI team

15. Sean Maitland*; 14. Alex Lewington; 13. Aseli Tikoirotuma*; 12. Johnny Williams; 11. Andrew Fenby; 10. Shane Geraghty*; 9. Brendan McKibbin; 1. Tom Court*; 2. Gerard Ellis; 3. Ben Franks*; 4. Eoin Sheriff; 5. Jebb Sinclair*; 6. Luke Narraway (Captain)*; 7. Conor Gilsenan; 8. Ofisa Treviranus*
Replacements: 16. Jimmy Stevens; 17. Tom Smallbone; 18. Leo Halavatau; 19. David Sis; 20. Blair Cowan*; 21. Darren Allinson; 22. Theo Brophy Clews; 23. Dominic Waldouck

A few rested and a second choice pair at lock with Symons and Skivington out injured. Return of Geraghty and Fenby will be popular in some quarters. Still a fairly strong team. If any team we put out can be described as strong this year...

by funnyExiledScot Fri 11 Dec 2015, 12:26 pm

Well at least we don't have to worry about that fullback of theirs scoring any tries.....

Just for comparison, relating to my NSQ point above, the London Irish 23 includes 14 NEQ players (I think).

by **Ozzy3213** Fri 11 Dec 2015, 12:29 pm

You might be slightly out there FeS, I make it 10 NEQ.

by **Ozzy3213** Fri 11 Dec 2015, 12:41 pm

NEQ
15. Sean Maitland
13. Aseli Tikoirotuma
9. Brendan McKibbin
1. Tom Court
3. Ben Franks
5. Jebb Sinclair
7. Conor Gilsenan
8. Ofisa Treviranus
20. Blair Cowan
11. Andrew Fenby

EQ
14. Alex Lewington
12. Johnny Williams
10. Shane Geraghty
2. Gerard Ellis
4. Eoin Sheriff
6. Luke Narraway (Captain)
16. Jimmy Stevens
17. Tom Smallbone
18. Leo Halavatau
19. David Sisi
21. Darren Allinson
22. Theo Brophy Clews
23. Dominic Waldouck

Sheriff, Halavatau and Allinson are all EQ on residency.

by Margin_Walker Fri 11 Dec 2015, 12:51 pm

The only one I'm not 100% on is Allinson as he apparently played Wales U20. These days that ties them as they have no A team. Not sure when the A team was disbanded though.

by **RDW** Fri 11 Dec 2015, 12:51 pm

I can't believe Solomons has made so many changes. Shame Du Preez hasn't been rested too but looks like we have a chronic lack of back 5 forwards - we have no 2nd rows on the bench and only 4 forward subs! Hopefully Bradbury can replace him for a good half hour and Du Preez gets next week off. Glad our main front row, Hardie and Burleigh are having a rest.

Great to see Bradbury back from the 7s - again I suspect this was due to our injury crisis.

Looking at the two teams LI really should be winning this one - if they can't beat that Edinburgh team then they really are in trouble!

by funnyExiledScot Fri 11 Dec 2015, 12:55 pm

Apologies - I had Allinson, Sheriff, Halavatau and Sisi down as NEQ. Still, yet again Edinburgh (chocked full of time serving foreigners apparently) have less NSQ players than the opposition.

by **Ozzy3213** Fri 11 Dec 2015, 1:02 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:

I can't believe Solomons has made so many changes. Shame Du Preez hasn't been rested too but looks like we have a chronic lack of back 5 forwards - we have no 2nd rows on the bench and only 4 forward subs! Hopefully Bradbury can replace him for a good half hour and Du Preez gets next week off. Glad our main front row, Hardie and Burleigh are having a rest.

Great to see Bradbury back from the 7s - again I suspect this was due to our injury crisis.

Looking at the two teams LI really should be winning this one - if they can't beat that Edinburgh team then they really are in trouble!

We too are missing a few, particularly at lock, where Sinclar is 5th choice (normally plays in the back row) and Sheriff is 3rd/4th choice. We also have no lock cover on the bench.

by **RDW** Fri 11 Dec 2015, 1:05 pm

Ozzy3213 wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:

I can't believe Solomons has made so many changes. Shame Du Preez hasn't been rested too but looks like we have a chronic lack of back 5 forwards - we have no 2nd rows on the bench and only 4 forward subs! Hopefully Bradbury can replace him for a good half hour and Du Preez gets next week off. Glad our main front row, Hardie and Burleigh are having a rest.

Great to see Bradbury back from the 7s - again I suspect this was due to our injury crisis.

Looking at the two teams LI really should be winning this one - if they can't beat that Edinburgh team then they really are in trouble!

We too are missing a few, particularly at lock, where Sinclar is 5th choice (normally plays in the back row) and Sheriff is 3rd/4th choice. We also have no lock cover on the bench.

Sounds like two bald men fighting over a comb then!

I just think the extra level of class of some of your individuals will give you the advantage. It wouldn't surprise me if we did manage to get the win though - our team is by no means a poor team, it just isn't a great one!

by **Ozzy3213** Fri 11 Dec 2015, 1:20 pm

Yeah, I kind of agree with that RDW. The likes of Franks and Maitland look a cut above you're guys in their positions. If we play to our potential, then we should win. Sadly, it never seems to be that simple with us!

by **RDW** Fri 11 Dec 2015, 1:22 pm

How has Maitland been for you lot? It doesn't look like he's had regular gametime so far?

Will be a great test for young Rory Sutherland at loosehead - he looks a Scotland star of the future and will get a stern test against Franks.

Watson V Cowan is a straight shootout for the Scotland squad too.

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