Challenge Cup Pool 5: Edinburgh Rugby v London Irish, 18 December

by **George Carlin** Mon 14 Dec 2015, 6:04 am

Challenge Cup Pool 5: Edinburgh Rugby v London Irish, 18 December London10

Edinburgh Rugby v London Irish
Friday 18 December 2015
KO: 19:30
BT Murrayfield Stadium, Edinburgh

Live on [tbc]

Referee David Wilkinson (Ireland)
Touch Judge 1 Kieran Barry (Ireland)
Touch Judge 2 Barrie O'Connell (Ireland)
Fourth Official Graeme Ormiston (Scotland)
Assessor Gabriele Villari (Italy)
Citing Commissioner Yves Thieffine (France)

A. Head to Head

2 Played 2
1 Wins 1
1 Losses 1
0 Draws 0
29 Points 56

B. Recent Form

Sarutday 12 December 2015
London Irish 38 - 6 Edinburgh

Sunday 5 April 2015
London Irish 18 - 23 Edinburgh

C. Teams

Edinburgh Rugby
Challenge Cup Pool 5: Edinburgh Rugby v London Irish, 18 December Georgi10

Challenge Cup Pool 5: Edinburgh Rugby v London Irish, 18 December Georgi10

Tonks; Hoyland, Allen, Scott, Brown; Burleigh, Hidalgo-Clyne; Sutherland, Ford, Nel, Bresler, Toolis, Coman (capt), Hardie, Du Preez.

Replacements: Cochrane, Dell, Berghan, Ritchie, Bradbury, Kennedy, Strauss, Cuthbert.

London Irish
Challenge Cup Pool 5: Edinburgh Rugby v London Irish, 18 December Natali10

Challenge Cup Pool 5: Edinburgh Rugby v London Irish, 18 December Natali10

Ojo; Lewington, Fowlie, Williams, Fenby; Geraghty (capt), Allinson; Court, Ellis, Franks, Sheriff, Rouse, Cowan, Gilsenan, Treviranus.

Replacements: Stevens, Smallbone, Halavatau, Sisi, Trayfoot, Steele, Noakes, Mulchrone.

by **RDW** Mon 14 Dec 2015, 7:44 am

Well I suspect Solomons will put several of Saturday's team on the naughty step and they will never be seen again.

Time to bring back the big guns and, hopefully, get a solid win before the 1872 cup.

We really could do with a second row coming back to fitness and I suspect McKenzie is the closest to that now. Du Preez really could do with a rest too so hopefully Manu is fit.

I reckon he'll go for something like:

Dickinson
Ford
Nel
Bresler
Toolis
Coman
Hardie
Manu / Du Preez

Hidalgo-Clyne
Burleigh
Helu
Scott
Dean
Brown
Tonks

Subs - Sutherland, Cochrane, Andress, Ritchie, Watson, Kennedy, Kinghorn Fife

Which should hopefully have enough to get the win, although I'm not holding out hopes of a BP any time soon.

by funnyExiledScot Mon 14 Dec 2015, 8:53 am

Agree with all of that. We need to bring back our international forwards plus Burleigh and Scott and put Irish to the sword.

A win should see us through this Group as I can't see us losing to Agen at home, and would expect LI to beat Grenoble at home. Either way, we finish up against Grenoble (away) so our destiny should remain in our hands.

by **Ozzy3213** Mon 14 Dec 2015, 9:13 am

The pool is very finely balanced. If we can nick this one we are very much in pole position. Even a losing bonus point and denying Edinburgh a TBP does the job really.

by Heaf Mon 14 Dec 2015, 9:21 am

Shame we gave up the draw in Grenoble with it this close at the moment ...

by funnyExiledScot Mon 14 Dec 2015, 9:37 am

Ozzy3213 wrote:The pool is very finely balanced. If we can nick this one we are very much in pole position. Even a losing bonus point and denying Edinburgh a TBP does the job really.

If you guys win at Murrayfield you're through, no question. I agree that a LBP would also pretty much cover it. We can all assume that Grenoble will beat Agen in the next fixture, but I think you'll do the business against Grenoble in the next game, as will we against Agen.

Either way, I can't see the winner in the next game at Murrayfield not making it.

by **Ozzy3213** Mon 14 Dec 2015, 5:05 pm

Looking at the way the pool tables are currently, ours looks like a pool where 2 will go through, as everyone will pick up 9/10 points off Agen. I'm confident we'll make the knockout stages regardless of the result Friday night, but bagging a result would certainly take the pressure off a bit.

by **Ozzy3213** Mon 14 Dec 2015, 8:30 pm

So most Edinburgh fans appear confident that Solomons will recall all the big guns for this. I have no idea what sort of side we will send out. TC has tinkered a lot so far, in some part trying to see what his best side is, but also through injuries.

I am told that neither Symons nor Skivs are likely to be back in the engine room, but Rouse may be fit. Given he's been out since last season, I suspect if he's fit he'll be bench at most and we will see Sheriff and Sinclair start the game again.

by **RDW** Mon 14 Dec 2015, 8:33 pm

Solomons generally rests our top players only once a season - and that was last week.

He isn't one for rotation!

by **Ozzy3213** Mon 14 Dec 2015, 8:50 pm

I'm hoping that as time goes on we will see less rotation from TC. I suspect (hope) he is getting close now to knowing his best side.

by funnyExiledScot Tue 15 Dec 2015, 9:23 am

RDW_Scotland wrote:Solomons generally rests our top players only once a season - and that was last week.

He isn't one for rotation!

Well here's to hoping he rotates again this weekend, as the performance at the weekend was by all accounts rank awful. Even Solomons blamed the players which is unheard of. He's rarely short of excuses, but it's uncommon for the fault to be Edinburgh's.

by funnyExiledScot Tue 15 Dec 2015, 9:26 am

It's also a complete pain that we have to do without Grant Gilchrist, Ben Toolis and Fraser McKenzie. That's a top class trio of locks to be without, and for me Bresler has yet to hit form this season.

I'd actually say that Alex Toolis has thus far been the pick of the locks this season.

by **RDW** Tue 15 Dec 2015, 9:29 am

Would certainly agree with that – losing one isn’t a big deal but losing all 3 (2 of them long term) has really hurt us.

Bresler and Toolis were outstanding last year because you combined Bresler’s raw physicality with Toolis’ dynamic athleticism. Gilchrist would have done a similar job to Toolis.

Alex has done well but is similar to Bresler – they don’t complement each other as a pair.

We really need Toolis back soon, but I don’t think he’s due back until nearer the 6N.

by funnyExiledScot Tue 15 Dec 2015, 9:43 am

I didn't realise the injury to Ben Toolis was so serious. As you said initially, looks like McKenzie will be the next lock back to fitness, and to be fair he was playing well when he got injured.

by funnyExiledScot Tue 15 Dec 2015, 9:48 am

Speaking of locks, when's that Andy Crammond bloke going to stop sun bathing down in Toulon and come home?? With Gilchrist injured all the time we could use the cover.

by **RDW** Tue 15 Dec 2015, 10:00 am

He's come off the bench once for Toulon and had another game on the bench without getting on.

He's been a regular in their academy team though, and they have been doing very well.

I suspect his contract his up this season and I'd be surprised if they kept him (as would he by all accounts!)

by funnyExiledScot Tue 15 Dec 2015, 10:39 am

Well both Edinburgh and Glasgow could use cover at lock, so you'd think he'd get a contract in Scotland.

by **RDW** Wed 16 Dec 2015, 7:59 am

Sounds like Du Preez isn't getting a rest any time soon (and he's quite happy about it)

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/rugby-union/edinburgh/du-preez-vows-edinburgh-revenge-against-london-irish-1-3976786

by funnyExiledScot Wed 16 Dec 2015, 1:05 pm

Du Preez is a beast. We're lucky to have him.

by **George Carlin** Thu 17 Dec 2015, 6:03 am

Offy preview. Anyone making yet another joke about Sean Maitland coming back to Edinburgh to fulfil his traditional role of Not Scoring has to put a quid in the Christmas charity tin:

PREVIEW: Cowan heading 'home' for Hardie shoot-out

Sean Maitland and Blair Cowan can't wait to head 'home' to Murrayfield in round four of the Challenge Cup.

Not only do they want to keep Pool 5 leaders London Irish on course for a potential quarter-final slot, but they also want to take the chance to give the Scottish selectors a nudge ahead of the 2016 RBS 6 Nations.

Both men were included in the Scottish World Cup squad, although Cowan found newcomer John Hardie part blocking his way into the team. Having seen off one rival for the Scottish No 7 jersey, Hamish Watson, in last weekend's game at the Madejski Stadium, Cowan knows that Hardie will be coming out all guns blazing in the re-match.

Edinburgh coach Alan Solomons had to make 11 changes from the side that had battled all the way against Ulster at the Kingspan the previous weekend for the trip to Reading. But he never thought the side he had selected would be put to the sword with six tries by a team that has yet to notch a win in the Aviva Premiership.

But the Exiles Scottish coach, Clark Laidlaw, believes their domestic position is a little bit false. What he does know is that his team will face a totally different Edinburgh team in the return fixture.

"We know it is going to be a different game at Murrayfield. They will be able to have their big name players back after the five week rest rule and that is going to make it much harder for us," said Laidlaw.

"Our position in the Premiership isn't a fair reflection of where we are because we've only played six games and we've played all the top teams. The Challenge Cup has given us the chance to gain some confidence and we will take that back into the Premiership."

Club captain George Skivington could make a timely return at Murrayfield and everyone at London Irish knows that a third win in four games would be priceless as they chase another quarter-final place. Conversely, Edinburgh realise that a second successive defeat could be fatal for their chances of trying to reach the final again.

Match Facts
- The spoils are split one apiece between these sides in the Challenge Cup after London Irish won 38-6 in the last round.
- Edinburgh Rugby haven't lost consecutive matches in the Challenge Cup since their first campaign in 1997 when they opened their account with three losses; they have not been beaten twice in a row in the 15 games since then.
- Edinburgh Rugby have won their last six Challenge Cup home fixtures, outscoring their opponents 179-91 in the process.
- London Irish are aiming to win both fixtures in the back-to-back rounds (3 & 4) of the Challenge Cup for the first time since 2008 when they beat Dax in consecutive weeks.

by **RDW** Thu 17 Dec 2015, 7:35 am

by **RDW** Thu 17 Dec 2015, 8:47 am

And before anyone asks, the teams will be announced lunchtime today and no it is not on TV.

by **RDW** Thu 17 Dec 2015, 12:05 pm

by EWT Spoons Thu 17 Dec 2015, 12:24 pm

Decent looking side, will this be Allan's first appearance (pretty certain it is)?

Will be interesting to see if our backs can actually gel and get on the score sheet. In theory we could have enough to win, but major improvements needed from the last game.

by **RDW** Thu 17 Dec 2015, 12:26 pm

Allan played last week and came off the bench the 2 weeks previous.

Certainly a much stronger team - looking forward to seeing what Sutherland can do with Ford and Nel.

That backline still doesn't overly inspire me though, and our two outside back subs - picard

by jimbopip Thu 17 Dec 2015, 12:35 pm

I really hope you Luvvies win tomorrow: three consecutive defeats would be a miserable festive season for you. Challenge Cup Pool 5: Edinburgh Rugby v London Irish, 18 December 3602195817

Challenge Cup Pool 5: Edinburgh Rugby v London Irish, 18 December 3602195817

by VinceWLB Thu 17 Dec 2015, 12:38 pm

Still no lock cover..

Surprised to see Dickinson getting a rest once again but Sutherland doesn't weaken the team that much imo. Good to see Dell and Berghan on the bench, i think they are both better players than Shiells and Andress.

by **George Carlin** Thu 17 Dec 2015, 1:02 pm

Good starting 15 - bench is fine if you enjoy a big, fat cup of 'meh'.

by **BigGee** Thu 17 Dec 2015, 1:12 pm

VinceWLB wrote:Still no lock cover..

Surprised to see Dickinson getting a rest once again but Sutherland doesn't weaken the team that much imo. Good to see Dell and Berghan on the bench, i think they are both better players than Shiells and Andress.

Dickinson down as a calf injury. The rest won't do him any harm anyway.

Good to see Ritchie and Bradbury getting some game time.

by **RDW** Thu 17 Dec 2015, 1:30 pm

Players not considered due to injury: Alasdair Dickinson (calf), Grant Gilchrist (groin), Roddy Grant (knee), Nasi Manu (neck), Stuart McInally (neck), Fraser McKenzie (neck), Jade Te Rure (knee), Ben Toolis (arm), Hamish Watson (knee).

Edinburgh Rugby v London Irish
Friday 18 December 2015, BT Murrayfield, k/o 7.30pm
15 Greig Tonks
14 Damien Hoyland
13 Michael Allen
12 Matt Scott
11 Tom Brown
10 Phil Burleigh
9 Sam Hidalgo-Clyne

1 Rory Sutherland
2 Ross Ford
3 WP Nel
4 Anton Bresler
5 Alex Toolis
6 Mike Coman (capt)
7 John Hardie
8 Cornell Du Preez

16 Neil Cochrane
17 Allan Dell
18 Simon Berghan
19 Jamie Ritchie
20 Magnus Bradbury
21 Sean Kennedy
22 Andries Strauss
23 Jack Cuthbert

by funnyExiledScot Thu 17 Dec 2015, 1:55 pm

I'd say that's our first choice XV, with the exception of Dickinson, Manu and Gilchrist (both our injured). Dickinson will be missed, but a great opportunity for Sutherland to play alongside Nel and Ford (rather than having to make to with Cochrane and Andress).

Hopefully we won't need to call upon our "impact sub", Andries Strauss.

Nice to see Ritchie and Bradbury on the bench.

by **Ozzy3213** Thu 17 Dec 2015, 1:55 pm

Leo Halavatau will make his 100th appearance for London Irish when he comes off the bench in the European Rugby Challenge Cup fixture against Edinburgh at Murrayfield on Friday 18th December (kick-off 7.30pm)

Nic Rouse makes his first appearance of the season after recovering from injury as Tom Coventry names five changes to the starting line-up. The front row remains the same with Tom Court, Ben Franks and Gerard Ellis all included. There is one change in the second row as Rouse comes in for Jebb Sinclair to partner Eoin Sheriff. The only other change of personnel in the forwards comes in the back row where Blair Cowan replaces Luke Narraway, joining Conor Gilsenan and Ofisa Treviranus.

Shane Geraghty starts again at fly-half with Darren Allinson replacing Brendan McKibbin at scrum half. Tom Fowlie comes into the centre to partner Johnny Williams in the midfield. Andrew Fenby is rewarded for his hat-trick last week with another start on the wing, with Alex Lewington also keeping his place on the other side. Sean Maitland is replaced by the Club’s record try scorer, Topsy Ojo at full back.

London Irish Head Coach Tom Coventry said: “We’re glad to be able to welcome back Nic from injury, his return gives us another option. We know it is going to be tough going up to Murrayfield but we also know how big the win would be in terms of trying to qualify from the group. The work ethic remains positive and we are relishing the challenge tomorrow evening.”

London Irish team to face Edinburgh:

15. Topsy Ojo*; 14. Alex Lewington; 13. Tom Fowlie; 12.Johnny Williams; 11. Andrew Fenby; 10. Shane Geraghty (C)*; 9. Darren Allinson; 1. Tom Court*; 2. Gerard Ellis; 3. Ben Franks*; 4. Eoin Sheriff; 5. Nic Rouse; 6. Blair Cowan*; 7. Conor Gilsenan; 8. Ofisa Treviranus*

Replacements: 16. Jimmy Stevens; 17. Tom Smallbone; 18. Leo Halavatau; 19. David Sisi; 20. Joe Trayfoot; 21. Scott Steele; 22. Chris Noakes; 23. Fergus Mulchrone

*Denotes Internationals

by **RDW** Thu 17 Dec 2015, 1:59 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:I'd say that's our first choice XV, with the exception of Dickinson, Manu and Gilchrist (both our injured). Dickinson will be missed, but a great opportunity for Sutherland to play alongside Nel and Ford (rather than having to make to with Cochrane and Andress).

Hopefully we won't need to call upon our "impact sub", Andries Strauss.

Nice to see Ritchie and Bradbury on the bench.

It is close to our First choice XV (other than the 3 you note, plus Ben Toolis would have been good to have) but the bench isn't great - no 2nd row cover, 2 very inexperienced back rows and 2 slow, really bad backs.

by **RDW** Thu 17 Dec 2015, 2:00 pm

Ozzy3213 wrote:Leo Halavatau will make his 100th appearance for London Irish when he comes off the bench in the European Rugby Challenge Cup fixture against Edinburgh at Murrayfield on Friday 18th December (kick-off 7.30pm)

Nic Rouse makes his first appearance of the season after recovering from injury as Tom Coventry names five changes to the starting line-up. The front row remains the same with Tom Court, Ben Franks and Gerard Ellis all included. There is one change in the second row as Rouse comes in for Jebb Sinclair to partner Eoin Sheriff. The only other change of personnel in the forwards comes in the back row where Blair Cowan replaces Luke Narraway, joining Conor Gilsenan and Ofisa Treviranus.

Shane Geraghty starts again at fly-half with Darren Allinson replacing Brendan McKibbin at scrum half. Tom Fowlie comes into the centre to partner Johnny Williams in the midfield. Andrew Fenby is rewarded for his hat-trick last week with another start on the wing, with Alex Lewington also keeping his place on the other side. Sean Maitland is replaced by the Club’s record try scorer, Topsy Ojo at full back.

London Irish Head Coach Tom Coventry said: “We’re glad to be able to welcome back Nic from injury, his return gives us another option. We know it is going to be tough going up to Murrayfield but we also know how big the win would be in terms of trying to qualify from the group. The work ethic remains positive and we are relishing the challenge tomorrow evening.”

London Irish team to face Edinburgh:

15. Topsy Ojo*; 14. Alex Lewington; 13. Tom Fowlie; 12.Johnny Williams; 11. Andrew Fenby; 10. Shane Geraghty (C)*; 9. Darren Allinson; 1. Tom Court*; 2. Gerard Ellis; 3. Ben Franks*; 4. Eoin Sheriff; 5. Nic Rouse; 6. Blair Cowan*; 7. Conor Gilsenan; 8. Ofisa Treviranus*

Replacements: 16. Jimmy Stevens; 17. Tom Smallbone; 18. Leo Halavatau; 19. David Sisi; 20. Joe Trayfoot; 21. Scott Steele; 22. Chris Noakes; 23. Fergus Mulchrone

*Denotes Internationals

The real question is - is that team stronger or weaker than last week?

by Margin_Walker Thu 17 Dec 2015, 2:09 pm

A touch weaker, but not massively so. Guess we'll be targeting a LBP or better.

Very young, but promising centre pairing. No resting of the front row as the Edinburgh scrum is obviously a concern.

by **Ozzy3213** Thu 17 Dec 2015, 7:31 pm

Tat's a tough question to answer RDw, as any response is going to be subjective. It's made tougher by the amount of tinkering with seen so far this season, as we don't really know what TC's first choice XV looks like. At a guess, I would say Court, Franks, Cowan and Treviranus would be in TC's first choice pack, and Lewington in the backs, with one of Ojo and Fenby making up the back three with Maitland. The two centres are 18 and 20 years old and have huge potential, but neither could really claim to be nailed on first choices. Allinson is 3rd choice at 9, and Geraghty is...., well he's just Shane, and could be world class or National League One level, or anywhere in between.

I guess reading back over my own words, we'd definitely be weaker this week than last. We will definitely miss Tikoirotuma, as he has 5 try assists so far this season, and nobody else has more than 1!

by Heaf Thu 17 Dec 2015, 9:36 pm

Quite surprised no Maitland or McKibben as they haven't had a lot of game time recently ...

by **RDW** Fri 18 Dec 2015, 12:30 pm

Anyone going tonight? I was going to, then saw the forecast (pishin doon again).

That, and I've not managed to win any free tickets. Rolling Eyes

by funnyExiledScot Fri 18 Dec 2015, 1:34 pm

It's my (second) work Christmas bash tonight so I'm going to miss it sadly.

Getting a bit nervous about this actually. Don't fancy having to beat Grenoble away from home.

by **RDW** Fri 18 Dec 2015, 1:41 pm

So have you only been to one game this season then??

Good use of the Season Ticket!

by funnyExiledScot Fri 18 Dec 2015, 1:48 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:So have you only been to one game this season then??

Good use of the Season Ticket!

Yes, although the ticket itself has been used at almost every game. I'm generous like that. It's a lawyer thing.....

by **RDW** Fri 18 Dec 2015, 1:50 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:So have you only been to one game this season then??

Good use of the Season Ticket!

Yes, although the ticket itself has been used at almost every game. I'm generous like that. It's a lawyer thing.....

Ahem, and why have you not been spreading the love with your V2 brethren? Crying or Very sad

by funnyExiledScot Fri 18 Dec 2015, 1:52 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:
funnyExiledScot wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:So have you only been to one game this season then??

Good use of the Season Ticket!

Yes, although the ticket itself has been used at almost every game. I'm generous like that. It's a lawyer thing.....

Ahem, and why have you not been spreading the love with your V2 brethren?

I've gone that road previously but some muppet nearly lost my ticket Wink

by **RDW** Fri 18 Dec 2015, 2:02 pm

I think you'll find it's not may fault that my mum took it down to London thinking it was for my brother, despite having my name on it! Rolling Eyes

by funnyExiledScot Fri 18 Dec 2015, 3:01 pm

Maybe she just prefers your brother - I'll bet he doesn't make a mess of road bridges!

by jimbopip Fri 18 Dec 2015, 3:07 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:
funnyExiledScot wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:So have you only been to one game this season then??

Good use of the Season Ticket!

Yes, although the ticket itself has been used at almost every game. I'm generous like that. It's a lawyer thing.....

Ahem, and why have you not been spreading the love with your V2 brethren?

Yeah, I'm sure Schiz would appreciate a quiet evening in the library.

by **RDW** Fri 18 Dec 2015, 3:18 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:Maybe she just prefers your brother - I'll bet he doesn't make a mess of road bridges!

Nothing you've got on me would stand up in court. Whistle

(for the record I have nothing to do with the current FRB problems)

by TheMildlyFranticLlama Fri 18 Dec 2015, 3:24 pm

I was considering going tonight as I'm up visiting the parents in Fife, but a combination of what RDW has done to the bridge and the grimness of the weather has put me off the idea

by funnyExiledScot Fri 18 Dec 2015, 3:25 pm

jimbopip wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:
funnyExiledScot wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:So have you only been to one game this season then??

Good use of the Season Ticket!

Yes, although the ticket itself has been used at almost every game. I'm generous like that. It's a lawyer thing.....

Ahem, and why have you not been spreading the love with your V2 brethren?

Yeah, I'm sure Schiz would appreciate a quiet evening in the library.

It would be instructive, seeing how a proper scrummage operates.

by funnyExiledScot Fri 18 Dec 2015, 3:26 pm

TheMildlyFranticLlama wrote:I was considering going tonight as I'm up visiting the parents in Fife, but a combination of what RDW has done to the bridge and the grimness of the weather has put me off the idea

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