London Irish vs. Edinburgh - Heineken Cup Pool 2 Discussion

First topic message reminder :

So the start of this seasons premier Northern Hemisphere rugby tournament is now upon us. In Pool 2, my team, the mighty London Irish host Edinburgh on Saturday so here is a look at that fixture, and the history of both sides in the Heineken Cup.

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London Irish

Squad
Darren Allinson, Joe Ansbro, Delon Armitage, Brian Blaney, Dan Bowden, James Buckland, Bob Casey, Alex Corbisiero, Declan Danaher, Clarke Dermody, Bryn Evans, Matt Garvey, Mark George, Jamie Gibson, Alex Gray, Chris Hala'ufia, Leo Halavatau, Shontayne Hape, Paul Hodgson, Tom Homer, Paulica Ion, Adrian Jarvis, Jonathan Joseph, Nick Kennedy, Max Lahiff, Topsy Ojo, David Paice, Faan Rautenbach, Ross Samson, James Sandford, Steven Shingler, Ed Siggery, Jebb Sinclair, David Sisi, Jonathan Spratt, Sailosi Tagicakibau, Adam Thompstone, Richard Thorpe.

Heineken Cup History
London Irish made their first entry into the competition in the 2002/03 season and were drawn in pool 5 with Toulouse, Newport and this weeks opponents Edinburgh. Their first meeting was in R2, when Irish won 24-8 at home. 5 players who featured for the sides that day remain, Declan Danaher for Irish, and Allan Jacobsen, Dougie Hall, Mike Blair and Chris Paterson for Edinburgh. The return fixture saw a 32-35 win for Edinburgh in R5, but neither team qualified for the knockout stages.

Irish then had to wait until 2006/07 before qualifying again for the competition, but have qualified for the tournament in 4 of the 5 years since then. Their best performance came in 2007/08 when they topped a pool containing French giants Perpignan, before beating them again in the quarter finals. They were then defeated by Toulouse in the semi final. Their overall tournament record reads as follows.

P 32 W 15 D 1 L 16 TF 80 TA 65 PF 746 PA 640

Form This Season
The Exiles sit 3rd in the Aviva Premiership after 8 matches. In terms of results it has been a mixed bag, with 3 wins, 1 draw and 4 defeats. What has helped to elevate them to such a high position in the table is bonus points, as they have taken and LBP every time they have been beaten and have 6 bonus points in total, the most in the division.
They come into this game off the back of a 24-24 draw with Leicester Tigers at Welford Road, where they came from 7-24 down with 15 minutes to play, and so will most likely feel reasonably confident of their ability to dig in get something from most games going forward.

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Edinburgh

Squad
Alex Black, Mike Blair, Tom Brown, Ben Cairns, Sean Cox, Geoff Cross, Nick De Luca, David Denton, ross Ford, Grant Gilchrist, Jack Gilding, Phil Godman, Roddy Grant, Robin Hislop, John Houston, Gregor Hunter, Allan Jacobsen, Lee Jones, Andrew Kelly, James King, Greig Laidlaw, Steve Lawrie, Chris Leck, Harry Leonard, Esteban Lozada, Alan MacDonald, Stuart McInally, Lewis Niven, Chris Paterson, Ross Rennie, Matt Scott, Netani Talei, Jim Thompson, Kyle Traynor, Steve Turnbull, Tim Visser, Alun Walker, Simon Webster.

Heineken Cup History
Edinburgh made their Heineken Cup debut in 1996/97 and have played in every tournament since then with the exception of 1997/98. As stated above they have played London Irish twice, with one win apiece in 2002/03, but overall their record in the competion has to be considered as poor.

They have only qualified from the Pool stage once in fourteen attempts, when in 2003/04 they qualified as a best runner up, and were rewarded for their efforts with an away quarter final in Toulouse, which resulted in a 10-36 defeat. Their overall tournament record reads as follows.

P 83 W 28 D 3 L 52 TF 152 TA 230 PF 1504 PA 2125

Form This Season
Edinburgh lie 10th in the RaboDirect PRO12 league after 8 matches this season, with a record of 3 wins and 5 defeats. They are yet to pick up a try bonus point despite having one fo the most potent attacking weapons int he league in Tim Visser, and in 3 of their defeats have failed to get within 7 points and collect a losing bonus point.

Their most recent result was a 22-11 win away at Benetton Treviso, which is not an easy place to get a result, and should give them great confidence that they can pick up points on the road, which they will need to do in order to qualify.

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Summary
Overall, if you look at the two teams records this season so far, there isn't much to choose between them other than the fact when London Irish win, they usually score some tries and get a bonus point, and when they lose, they also seem to get close and claim the LBP as well.

If Edinburgh are to win, they will need to find a way to stop what can be a very potent backs division for Irish, which can score tries from scraps at times, and for Irish to be confident of claiming the points, they will need their forwards to front up in the set piece and give thema platform to launch attacks from.

I am biased of course, but I can't see Irish losing at home, and if the team can step up from last weekend, particularly in the pack it could be a bonus point win as well.

Interested to hear everyone elses thoughts on the game, any team news out of Edinburgh, and I will update with any team/injury news from London Irish as and when I get any.

Poor decision

Anyone got any idea what that yellow card for Hape is for???

Poor decision, could cost Edinburgh the game

When the question was 'any reason not to' then it should have been a try.

Still, Edinburgh have the penalty to take the lead and LI have a yellow.

Tough call on Hape, but he does tackle high and barely with arms nearly every time, right on the edge, and this one has been (harshly imo) called against him

seems Hape binned for no particular reason then, if that's all there is to it!

Edinburgh deserve the lead - 19 -20.

Swinging arm around the neck always risks a yellow - foolish

wales606 don't talk nonsense mate.

If that yellow is for what they showed then it was nowhere near being a swinging arm around the neck.

oh come on, yellow for that? harsh when you see what Cox got away with earlier...

Shoulder charge = Yellow

Take it back, correct call on Hape - shoulder charge; Cox's elbow earlier is no excuse (for which he'll likely be cited anyhew)

16-16 in the other match - Good draw for Leinster

Ozzy3213 wrote:wales606 don't talk nonsense mate.

If that yellow is for what they showed then it was nowhere near being a swinging arm around the neck.

I didnt say it deserved a yellow, but a swinging arm risks being interpreted as a yellow.

In anycase, they just showed what the yellow was for and it was deserved, shoulder charges are illegal.

I've seen worse tackles than that go unpunished.

In every game I've ever watched.

What a time for Homers radar to go awry!!!

sorry take it back, deserved a yellow for that shoulder charge. Homer misses the chance

Edinburgh need to keep playing now.

It would be the perfect weekend for a Blues fan if Edinburgh win.

Edinburgh defence very good here.

Jebb Sinclair just dropped the game.

poor from Sinclair

How did the ref miss the guy tackling a player whilst he was already on the deck?

well we blew that one, and our chances of qualifying basically over after one game. Shocking second half, and for me Booth has to take the responsibility, with some daft substitutions

Well played Edinburgh

Credit where it's due, worked very very hard for that.

Gutted.com

Brilliant win by Edinburgh.

Blues should be very confident now. Edinburgh look good though but we have a great record against them after last years HC (though that 1pt win in the HC in Cardiff was too close)

Bar a massive drop in form, this should be the Blues pool now.

Fantastic result for a very young Edinburgh side

gutted really. Too many basic handling errors, and the subs really seemed to take the wind out of our sails. What's the point in subbing the two props who were dominating the scrum after less than an hour? Corbs looked staggered to be taken off.

Great game to watch and a great result for Edinburgh, that should do their confidence a world of good.

Utterly delighted for Edinburgh. Still a very young team too! Edinburgh have shown they are a force to be reckoned with too. After that win I'm confident we can hold our home games and have a chance of making it through to the knock out phases.

Didn't see it the match unfortunately but it seems that Hape being shown yellow was quite an important turning point. Was it justified?

George Carlin wrote:Didn't see it the match unfortunately but it seems that Hape being shown yellow was quite an important turning point. Was it justified?

It wasnt really a turning point, Edinburgh were on top before that. Edinburgh had a try disallowed by the TMO just before.

The Yellow was justified in my opinion, clear shoulder charge, no attempt to use the arms and in the red zone.

wales606 wrote:

George Carlin wrote:Didn't see it the match unfortunately but it seems that Hape being shown yellow was quite an important turning point. Was it justified?

It wasnt really a turning point, Edinburgh were on top before that. Edinburgh had a try disallowed by the TMO just before.

The Yellow was justified in my opinion, clear shoulder charge, no attempt to use the arms and in the red zone.

+1

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Amazing result for the young Edinburgh team!!! Really cheered my up when I came back into the changing room after losing today!!

Got to be one of Edinburgh's best every HK wins? Yes we've beaten big teams at home but always when we are out already.

I've read everyones comments but, from an Edinburgh perspective, who stood out and played well?

RDW_Scotland wrote:Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Amazing result for the young Edinburgh team!!! Really cheered my up when I came back into the changing room after losing today!!

Got to be one of Edinburgh's best every HK wins? Yes we've beaten big teams at home but always when we are out already.

I've read everyones comments but, from an Edinburgh perspective, who stood out and played well?

The Edinburgh no8 did well (though he will be cited for a shoulder into Hape's face)

Laidlaw did well when he came on.

Ford and the rest of the front row carried very well and drove LI back

The young 10 was good, though he missed some kicks (he should really have started with Laidlaw to do the kicking.

Visser was dangerous as ever and was very unlucky to have his try disallowed.

I'm pretty sure it was Sean Cox, Edinburgh's replacement second row, who elbowed Hape.

It was totally stupid, and will lead to a much-deserved citing, IMO.

This was probably one of the only bad points from Edinburgh, perhaps along with their poor discipline in the first half.

London Irish

viewtothegym wrote:London Irish

well done view, you've just proved to everyone exactly what we all knew anyway.

wales606 wrote:

George Carlin wrote:Didn't see it the match unfortunately but it seems that Hape being shown yellow was quite an important turning point. Was it justified?

It wasnt really a turning point, Edinburgh were on top before that. Edinburgh had a try disallowed by the TMO just before.

The Yellow was justified in my opinion, clear shoulder charge, no attempt to use the arms and in the red zone.

But a tad unjust in the context of the game given that very player had hit him with a cheap shot earlier in the game in front of the AR and got away scott-free despite most people in the stands being able to see it clearly ... Perhaps if LI had been award a penalty for that, and the player had been sent off as he should have been, the result may have been different even despite LI seeming to miss their strike runners badly today ...

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:

wales606 wrote:

George Carlin wrote:Didn't see it the match unfortunately but it seems that Hape being shown yellow was quite an important turning point. Was it justified?

It wasnt really a turning point, Edinburgh were on top before that. Edinburgh had a try disallowed by the TMO just before.

The Yellow was justified in my opinion, clear shoulder charge, no attempt to use the arms and in the red zone.

+1

Heaf wrote:

wales606 wrote:

George Carlin wrote:Didn't see it the match unfortunately but it seems that Hape being shown yellow was quite an important turning point. Was it justified?

It wasnt really a turning point, Edinburgh were on top before that. Edinburgh had a try disallowed by the TMO just before.

The Yellow was justified in my opinion, clear shoulder charge, no attempt to use the arms and in the red zone.

But a tad unjust in the context of the game given that very player had hit him with a cheap shot earlier in the game in front of the AR and got away scott-free despite most people in the stands being able to see it clearly ... Perhaps if LI had been award a penalty for that, and the player had been sent off as he should have been, the result may have been different even despite LI seeming to miss their strike runners badly today ...

Coulda, Woulda, Shoulda. Can't make excuses. Edinburgh brought more physicality to the contact area and as a result were able to control the game for long periods. The better team on the day won.

Still all to play for in the pool though. If we can go out on Friday night, up our game and win at the CCS, then the pool is wide open again.

Yep we all know London Irish lost.

Ozzy3213 wrote:

Heaf wrote:

wales606 wrote:

George Carlin wrote:Didn't see it the match unfortunately but it seems that Hape being shown yellow was quite an important turning point. Was it justified?

It wasnt really a turning point, Edinburgh were on top before that. Edinburgh had a try disallowed by the TMO just before.

The Yellow was justified in my opinion, clear shoulder charge, no attempt to use the arms and in the red zone.

But a tad unjust in the context of the game given that very player had hit him with a cheap shot earlier in the game in front of the AR and got away scott-free despite most people in the stands being able to see it clearly ... Perhaps if LI had been award a penalty for that, and the player had been sent off as he should have been, the result may have been different even despite LI seeming to miss their strike runners badly today ...

Coulda, Woulda, Shoulda. Can't make excuses. Edinburgh brought more physicality to the contact area and as a result were able to control the game for long periods. The better team on the day won.

Still all to play for in the pool though. If we can go out on Friday night, up our game and win at the CCS, then the pool is wide open again.

In your dreams - if you cant even beat Edinburgh at home...

Heaf wrote:

wales606 wrote:

George Carlin wrote:Didn't see it the match unfortunately but it seems that Hape being shown yellow was quite an important turning point. Was it justified?

It wasnt really a turning point, Edinburgh were on top before that. Edinburgh had a try disallowed by the TMO just before.

The Yellow was justified in my opinion, clear shoulder charge, no attempt to use the arms and in the red zone.

But a tad unjust in the context of the game given that very player had hit him with a cheap shot earlier in the game in front of the AR and got away scott-free despite most people in the stands being able to see it clearly ... Perhaps if LI had been award a penalty for that, and the player had been sent off as he should have been, the result may have been different even despite LI seeming to miss their strike runners badly today ...

Swings and roundabouts, Heaf, Visser's try looked good to me but wasn't awarded. For the record, Cox deserves all he gets - came on with a bee in his bonnet about Hape from the get-go, no idea what his problem was

606v2 seems to be rapidly filling up with unpleasant posters again. London Irish and Edinburgh put on a very good display today. LI were missing some key strike runners but Edinburgh's intensity at the breakdown and the contact area is what won the game for them. I reckon you should be showing both of these teams some respect because both are capable of beating Cardiff and some of these comments might come back and bite you in the arse.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:606v2 seems to be rapidly filling up with unpleasant posters again. London Irish and Edinburgh put on a very good display today. LI were missing some key strike runners but Edinburgh's intensity at the breakdown and the contact area is what won the game for them. I reckon you should be showing both of these teams some respect because both are capable of beating Cardiff and some of these comments might come back and bite you in the arse.

I was joking, hence the winky face and inoccent whistling.

Calm down

As for unpleasant posters you might want to read some of my other posts before you comment mate.

wales606 wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Amazing result for the young Edinburgh team!!! Really cheered my up when I came back into the changing room after losing today!!

Got to be one of Edinburgh's best every HK wins? Yes we've beaten big teams at home but always when we are out already.

I've read everyones comments but, from an Edinburgh perspective, who stood out and played well?

The Edinburgh no8 did well (though he will be cited for a shoulder into Hape's face)

Laidlaw did well when he came on.

Ford and the rest of the front row carried very well and drove LI back

The young 10 was good, though he missed some kicks (he should really have started with Laidlaw to do the kicking.

Visser was dangerous as ever and was very unlucky to have his try disallowed.

Don't think he will, wales606, no8 was MacInally and idiot elbow belonged to Cox, who came on at blindside flanker for Dave Denton who himself had been clattered (legally) by Hape

Corbisero handed Geoff Cross his backside, but Fordy was everywhere

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:606v2 seems to be rapidly filling up with unpleasant posters again. London Irish and Edinburgh put on a very good display today. LI were missing some key strike runners but Edinburgh's intensity at the breakdown and the contact area is what won the game for them. I reckon you should be showing both of these teams some respect because both are capable of beating Cardiff and some of these comments might come back and bite you in the arse.

+1

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:

wales606 wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Amazing result for the young Edinburgh team!!! Really cheered my up when I came back into the changing room after losing today!!

Got to be one of Edinburgh's best every HK wins? Yes we've beaten big teams at home but always when we are out already.

I've read everyones comments but, from an Edinburgh perspective, who stood out and played well?

The Edinburgh no8 did well (though he will be cited for a shoulder into Hape's face)

Laidlaw did well when he came on.

Ford and the rest of the front row carried very well and drove LI back

The young 10 was good, though he missed some kicks (he should really have started with Laidlaw to do the kicking.

Visser was dangerous as ever and was very unlucky to have his try disallowed.

Don't think he will, wales606, no8 was MacInally and idiot elbow belonged to Cox, who came on at blindside flanker for Dave Denton who himself had been clattered (legally) by Hape

Corbisero handed Geoff Cross his backside, but Fordy was everywhere

By bad, I thought it was the no8 - I was wondering how he could get MOTM if it was him.
Havent seen the no8 in the Pro12 before, seems like a big talent.

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:

wales606 wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Amazing result for the young Edinburgh team!!! Really cheered my up when I came back into the changing room after losing today!!

Got to be one of Edinburgh's best every HK wins? Yes we've beaten big teams at home but always when we are out already.

I've read everyones comments but, from an Edinburgh perspective, who stood out and played well?

The Edinburgh no8 did well (though he will be cited for a shoulder into Hape's face)

Laidlaw did well when he came on.

Ford and the rest of the front row carried very well and drove LI back

The young 10 was good, though he missed some kicks (he should really have started with Laidlaw to do the kicking.

Visser was dangerous as ever and was very unlucky to have his try disallowed.

Don't think he will, wales606, no8 was MacInally and idiot elbow belonged to Cox, who came on at blindside flanker for Dave Denton who himself had been clattered (legally) by Hape

Corbisero handed Geoff Cross his backside, but Fordy was everywhere

The front row battle was interesting as I thought you'd have the scrum but our boys would show up well in the loose, but it seemed to be the other way round. Always liked Ford, and seems to have sorted his darts out a bit as well.

wales606 wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:606v2 seems to be rapidly filling up with unpleasant posters again. London Irish and Edinburgh put on a very good display today. LI were missing some key strike runners but Edinburgh's intensity at the breakdown and the contact area is what won the game for them. I reckon you should be showing both of these teams some respect because both are capable of beating Cardiff and some of these comments might come back and bite you in the arse.

I was joking, hence the winky face and inoccent whistling.

Calm down

As for unpleasant posters you might want to read some of my other posts before you comment mate.

Wasn't you I was talking about mate!

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

wales606 wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:606v2 seems to be rapidly filling up with unpleasant posters again. London Irish and Edinburgh put on a very good display today. LI were missing some key strike runners but Edinburgh's intensity at the breakdown and the contact area is what won the game for them. I reckon you should be showing both of these teams some respect because both are capable of beating Cardiff and some of these comments might come back and bite you in the arse.

I was joking, hence the winky face and inoccent whistling.

Calm down

As for unpleasant posters you might want to read some of my other posts before you comment mate.

Wasn't you I was talking about mate!

Cant wait for Blues vs Irish next week. Should be a good game, both teams have great backs and like to run the ball (hoping Jamie Roberts, Casey Laulaula and Halfpenny will be fit)

wales606 wrote:Havent seen the no8 in the Pro12 before, seems like a big talent.

He's a youngster, so just really breaking thru - both he and Denton are v promising 8s, so its a question of accommodating them both in the backrow. He wasnt helped last year by Moffat's insistence on playing club captain Roddy Grant, which usually meant at 8 even tho he's 2 foot tall!