Will Wales beat New Zealand in my lifetime? Really?

Just considered this the other day and I was thinking of course they will. They have loads of good young players coming through. But then I thought Wales have not beaten them in my mother's lifetime yet. New Zealand are always going to be there or thereabouts for the best team in the world status and I dont know if the Welsh players will ever truly believe they can beat them. Your thoughts?

Spare a thought for us Scots. We have NEVER beaten them.

beaten South Africa a few times though. Swings and roundabouts

In answer to the first question though, I guess it depends how old you are. If you're 92 then probably not but if you're only 15 then statistically there is a pretty good chance

I am 23. Sorry should have put that really! Fundemental to my point!

Hi all, I'm moving this to the international section

Though I should point out that I'm almost 36 and Wales haven't beaten NZ in my mother's lifetime* either

*They have done in my father's lifetime admittedly.

Kiwireddevil wrote:

Though I should point out that I'm almost 36 and Wales haven't beaten NZ in my mother's lifetime* either

*They have done in my father's lifetime admittedly.

pah! I've only got 2 words to say to you!






Andy Haden!

If Wales keep playing New Zealand at the MS (the last 5 matches have been there) then eventually yes.

Looking up when Wales last beat NZ (apologies Wales fans I thought they only had the one win in 1905) I was amazed to see that Wales and New Zealand have only played once in NZ since 1988.

Should be able to. The more times you play them obviously the more likely it is. More chances.

It's the same as Italy. They have never beaten England but they will win at some point.

With the Ais being very popular you'll have a lot more opportunities to have a pop at the All Blacks.

London Tiger, we played two Tests in New Zealand a couple of summers ago. And we played in New Zealand a few years before that, when Colin Charvis was knocked out by a tackle from Jerry Collins.

Yes, we will. That is, considering I've still got a few years on the clock...

We will have to go up a few levels, yes. In recent encounters in the MS no team has looked that much better than us. If we go up a few levels then there's no one we should fear there.

luckless_pedestrian wrote:London Tiger, we played two Tests in New Zealand a couple of summers ago. And we played in New Zealand a few years before that, when Colin Charvis was knocked out by a tackle from Jerry Collins.

Apologies, the site I looked at for some reason was missing the two 2010 matches.

Turkster wrote:[

pah! I've only got 2 words to say to you!


Andy Haden!

Shouldn't that be Geoff Wheel?

Bob Deans would also have something to say too!

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:Spare a thought for us Scots. We have NEVER beaten them.

Join the club.....

roddersm wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:Spare a thought for us Scots. We have NEVER beaten them.

Join the club.....

There is a club for this sort of thing......braw I don't feel so bad now!

You could look at it this way. By 1963 Wales lead 3-2 and it wasnt until 1969 NZ lead Wales ever for the first time.

64 years it took to go ahead from the 05 loss.

Weve had the lead since- 42 years. So you could say we need to win till 2033 to match Wales tenure over NZ.

You could look at it that way...

Of course we will - in 4 years in the Final where we'll finally cement our place as the greatest team in the world!

(at least until I wake up...)

Taylorman wrote:You could look at it this way. By 1963 Wales lead 3-2 and it wasnt until 1969 NZ lead Wales ever for the first time.

64 years it took to go ahead from the 05 loss.

Weve had the lead since- 42 years. So you could say we need to win till 2033 to match Wales tenure over NZ.

You could look at it that way...

Taylorman, I like that way of thinking. A lot.

Let's not mention how many of the matches between us you've won...

Taylorman wrote:You could look at it this way. By 1963 Wales lead 3-2 and it wasnt until 1969 NZ lead Wales ever for the first time.

64 years it took to go ahead from the 05 loss.

Weve had the lead since- 42 years. So you could say we need to win till 2033 to match Wales tenure over NZ.

You could look at it that way...

If your're not a lawyer you missed your vocation!!

Only 5 test teams have beaten the ABs: France, England, Wales, Australia and SA. That may well be 6 with Ireland´s 3 match series next year in NZ. It´s a proud record but Wales can be proud as well to be included in the special list.

I can´t answer the question I´m afraid. If I could I´d have made a killing at the bookies and on the sharemarket by now. But I will say this. Wales are capable of beating NZ in your lifetime - you´re sickeningly young after all - and all you can hope is that you´re still sufficiently young enough to indulge yourself in one of the biggest parties in which you could ever hope to partake.

Kiaka - honest question - are you at all worried when you play Wales? Or in the WC were you worried about the possibility of facing Wales in the Final?

I think I know the answer (no) but it will give an insight into how much we're improving.

In all honesty Smirnoffpriest there is worry when playing Wales recently. You put a team with a very solid scrum and backs that can either bust through tackles like Roberts or North or find ways to slip through tackles like Williams and you´ve got problems. That said, I am generally confident we can get the job done. But that is probably more to do with the unrealistically high standards we set our rugby team. We expect to win against any team though granted we know in our hearts against some teams that the odds are against us. If I´m being truthful, Wales have rarely given me that feeling of dread that we´re probably going to lose like the Springboks of 2009 or the Eales era for Australia or any French side in the RWC!

One thing that impressed me with Wales this RWC was their ability to put in complete performances. Often when we have played up north, Wales have been in the game for 60 minutes and then let it slip in the final quarter.

If we had faced Wales in the final I would´ve been just as nervous. Indeed you had better form than France. But really the threat of losing overrode any thoughts on who was best to face. I was nervous because I had waited 24 years for that day. We could´ve faced anybody and I would´ve spent equal times in the bathroom during the week leading up to the match!

Smirnoff don't worry mate you'd have given us a hell of a game regardless. The thing is we can prepare for you lot way better than we can prepare for France-just see both of our games against them.

Wales IMO have played a similar style to the All Blacks over the years, but we've just generally played it more effectively. Luck may have something to do with the record-you may have missed playing NZ when we were playing rubbish. You've given us a couple of scares in 04 and last year, and are starting to gain a lot more belief than we've seen previously-making you guys a huge threat and equal with Ireland of the Home Union teams with view to knocking us over.

Methinks when you do win the valleys will be overflowing with yunder from the ensuing celebrations. Could be sooner-I'm really worried as an AB fan that with the WC monkey off our backs we'll drop the ball with the other impressive statistics we have. Are you guys disappointed you don't have NZ in a 3-Test series first up?

Sorry to butt in ahead of Kia if my post gets in first.

We have been very close recently, with a couple of single score games at the millennium - A few more games and surely the luck of the bounce will favour us once and will will get that score difference...

....right....right???...right!!!

LondonTiger wrote:If Wales keep playing New Zealand at the MS (the last 5 matches have been there) then eventually yes.

Looking up when Wales last beat NZ (apologies Wales fans I thought they only had the one win in 1905) I was amazed to see that Wales and New Zealand have only played once in NZ since 1988.

We played them twice in NZ last summer though?

Ruggerradge

We'll be hoping to leave that club next summer though.

Disney - cheers for a good response to my question. I think I'm glad we're playing Oz 3 times this summer because I think the way our team is set up we've got more of a chance of beating Oz, and once we get one Tri Nation scalp I feel with the youth of this team, more will flow - hopefully we'll be able to get 1 or 2 in the AI's as well...

My dad's 97, still going strong, but he was disappointed that Wales weren't in the world cup final against New Zealand.

On the other hand, as an adult he's seen Wales beat New Zealand twice, in 1935 and 1953. He's also seen Swansea (1935), Cardiff (1953) and Llanelli (1972) beat them.

That's probably more wins against the All Blacks in Wales than most of us young 'uns will ever see.

Optimist, your dad should have got himself down to Rodney Parade in 1963 and he'd have seen Newport beat the All Blacks too!

Wales do seem to be devloping a lot of young talent, but for every one talented player Wales develop, New Zealand seem to develop 3.

I wouldn't be too worried. Wales are on the rise and soon we'll be the All Blacks in all but name... and pre-game song and dance rituals... and 24 years between world cups...

Ha I've seen NZ lose a few. Thankfully none overseas yet. Wellington is a place where teams seem to do better against us, and that's my home patch. Though it was hard to concentrate fully on rugby on top of the Millard with a howling southerly.

I think Ireland could well catch us cold and steal one so Wales could have been in that position. Maybe one's all you need to get on your merry way. Either way it's a hell of a run for us and at risk of sounding arrogant about the ABs, if you knock us over it should mean you've played some bloody good rugby.

I feel a bit more optimistic about it all now, but in all honesty I still do not believe we can. And i factored living until i'm 275 into this question too, with the advances in healthcare! I hope i'm wrong!

I was there for the 2004 match in Cardiff. The best atmosphere of any game I've ever experienced. We lost by a point (as I recall, Henson hit the post and Jonesy missed a verty kickable pen). Rokoko (sp!) scored a wonderful try for NZ that day. Seeing him and player like him on tv is one thing -- seeing such raw pace for real is another. I think Wales can beat NZ with the players we have coming through, but we need all our best plauyers available and in top form to do it. And that's a credit to just how good NZ are.

On any given day two teams meet,IF that is repeated a 100 times logic says at some time.BOTH teams will win at some point.
As I unders tand it Mini-tours are being arranged on the 2012 Ireland pattern in the future.
These used to be popular 1958 onwards instead of the longer tours 10 years apart.
Look at the pattern of the time when Wales won there matches,about 7 or 8 games into a major tour [at least],add in provincial wins and see the pattern emerge.
During major tours the visiting team is softened up by provincial sides,Wales was often first or second test match up.
Often a Provincial team will catch touring teams cold before they have sorted out combinations.Midland Counties v Boks 1951 there only loss.
Newport 1963 v All Blacks 3rd game in and so on.
Your record versus the Boks is worse only a single win,circumstances have changed.
Ask why the Boks have a relatively poor record since the professional era,simple.[this applies to all major touring sides].
Instead of a 3 or 4 match home series with 28 games and strong provincial sides knocking 7 bells out of you.15 aside no substitutes for injuries,no stopping every 10 minutes for energy drinks.Open stadiums played in winter with wet muddy balls.
Instead travel halfway around the world one game,then away again home advantage in SH is nearly always a home win.
NZ has 37 losses in a 103 years only 5 sides including the Lions have won there.
IF you had a Mini Tour of Wales 3 tests ,2 provincial ,plus Barbarians instead of 5 different tests against all comers why not.?
Wales or Welsh Club sides had about 7 or 8 matches v NZ 1963-4,Wales,Newport,Swansea,LLanelli,Cardiff,Pontypool,Neath and Aberavon,Abertillery/Ebbw Vale.
ALL the big 4 had a all Black scalp at one time.

I was alive when we last beat the All Blacks, I was young and I don't remember the game, I remember peoples reaction to it though.

As time passes recently and more importantly though i was there in 2004. That was a big change in my perspective of my expectations of the Welsh teams chances for the first time they swung to optimism for the first time in a very long time.

Since then we have both failed and achieved but two teams have eluded us, though these days when we play them I am just waiting for the day it starts happening again.

luckless_pedestrian wrote:Optimist, your dad should have got himself down to Rodney Parade in 1963 and he'd have seen Newport beat the All Blacks too!

Sorry about that, my dad's already reminded me. And to think I played against John Uzzell in his earlier days, the bloke who dropped the goal that won the game for Newport.

The number of games is increasing in the professional era. There are teams, particularly at home who should have already beaten NZ like Ireland. If they´d played each other the amount of times they do against the other teams in the 6N for example, the group of teams that have beaten the ABs wouldn´t be so exclusive. Yet in saying that, it´s a proud record that serves NZ well I think against a lot of teams. There´s a big difference in terms of your mentality if you´ve never beaten a team before. Often in the crucial dying moments of a match I can´t help but feel sometimes it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy and teams find a way to let the match slip out of their grasp whereas against other teams they have a more ruthless mentality. Add the pressure from the ABs to not be the first team to lose to a particular team and it´s a powerful combination that often works to NZ´s favour.

It is a justified record too...! NZ have always produced sublime players from an intense rugby culture that personifies success at the highest. They are always the meter to which we judge our own.

By the way with regards to the last win in '53 a few of the Cardiff players like Dr Jack and the brilliant Bleddyn Williams had beaten the All Blacks less than a week before.

Two victories over the All Blacks in a week, one at club one at country.

We have some lofty personal heights to aspire too. Lets hope the ABs start doing proper tours where they play more club matches like the previous one against Munster.

I certainly hope so. It seems however every year there is a cash cow game at Twickers which makes a series less likely to occur. But the club games and Barbarians matches hold a lot more value if they´re incorporated into a series.

Definitely, though I fear it has been so long since there was a relevance to these fixtures as important as it was twenty years ago that a whole generation of fans have more sympathy for their neglected clubs than for the great and wonderful glory that is the international test series.

I know that things are changing back slowly as professional rugby realises it lost a huge part of its culture and identity with the excitement that turning a profit introduced.

Wales play a three test series in Australia next summer. Ireland same in new Zealand.

I hope when the SH tour north next autumn they look at a more varied tour too..

I'm so glad we're seeing the return of proper Test series - Ireland in New Zealand and Wales in Australia next summer. One-off Tests are fine but a series, where you get a chance the following weekend to make amends or put the series to bed, is something else. If we eventually see the return of mid-week matches between touring sides and clubs / regions, that would be even better still.

Here you go lads, have a read of this if you like Historical Rugby... I remember it from a few years back... Found it just now.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2008/nov/20/walesrugbyunionteam-newzealandrugbyunionteam

Beautiful writing that.

Yep, except "Ones that got away" could equally have been titled "Some of our more creative excuses."

We beat them at 7's recently on our way to win the WC!

Impossible Standards wrote:We beat them at 7's recently on our way to win the WC!

Different sport

Impossible Standards wrote:
We beat them at 7's recently on our way to win the WC!

Different sport

Worth a try...

How many tries have Wales scored against NZ since 1953?