Should Stephen Jones Retire From International Rugby ?

Stephen Jones will never be every rugby supporter’s cup tea but very few can argue with what the man has achieved in the game. Jones is the record cap holder for Wales and he is joint eighth on the List of rugby union Test caps leaders. Jones is sixth in the list of leading Rugby union Test point scorers, and the second-highest Wales player on the list behind Neil Jenkins. A key member of our 2 Grand Slams and will be regarded as a Welsh rugby great.

That’s why I am disappointed by Stephen’s decision not to retire from international rugby. Stephen should have retired after the World Cup after seeing how much Priestland had come of age in the world cup. I felt this would have been the right decision by Jones had he done this. It would have been so much better for Jones to end his international career on his terms. Now it seems Gatland has ended it for him as he did for Martyn Williams which is sad but as we now know with Gatland there’s no room for sentiment in international rugby.

We have a wealth of talent coming through at 10 with Priestland, Bigger, Hook, Tovey so it’s not as if we have a shortage in that department. Jones playing for Wales would only block the talent coming through.

Also what is gained by Jones continuing for Wales?

Warren Gatland has made it clear that only players who will still be around for the 2015 World Cup will be considered for the Six Nations in the new year. Jones will be 34 next month so obviously he won’t be around for the next World Cup. He’s achieved so much in the game already so what’s the point of sticking around just for a couple of more caps?

I have a lot of respect for Jones and have always thought he never really got the credit he deserved at times. However I have to say thanks for the memories Stephen but do the right thing and retire and let the youngsters have a chance to shine and achieve the same if not more than what you have.

I'm not sure that a player needs to say they have retired from international rugby if they are not good enough then obviously it's the managements fault if they keep selecting them.

Why should Jones retire, he enjoys playing for Wales and as long as he is good enough why not?

He has proved in the past month that he is still a better player than both Biggar and Tovey. He proved in the World cup that he is a better 10 than Hook. What happens if Priestland gets injured or loses form?

Why should he retire?

THe management don't have to pick him. But it's good to know that he's there to call upon if needed. He's fit, he's coming back into form, and he still has the desire to play for Wales. I think he's making the right decision for him.

wellies will be playing when he is 50. he loves it.

and what cymroglan and seagultaf said.

but its a well written article so have a

Stephen Jones has been a good player for Wales over the years, but he iis getting on a bit. Now i have no probhlem with older players playing international rugby, buit their comes a time when a player has to realise enough is enough.

Some players do more harm than good playing on past a certain age.
Every player need to realise when his time is up before some one else does.

I guess we all see a bit more dignity in retirement and a big deal of retrospective on that players career, rather than them dwindling into the shadows as they are not selected ahead of younger players.

Its a necessity of sport. I remember some real greats retiring, it was as enigmatic in Wales as when Elvis died.

Wellies has been a great servant of the Welsh rugby cause, I guess he deserve to go out in style, rather than gradually faded out.

It could be considered as being arrogant to declare one's retirement from International Rugby.It seems to say "I am good enough but cant be arsed anymore".
If Wellies is considered the best that we have available select him,if he isnt dont.

I have never considered it Arrogant for a player to retire. It usually shows some grace.

He probably should, but given how poor Hook was in the RWC, how limited Biggar is and how flakey Tovey is, as the earlier contributor asked, who would step in for Priestland if injured. Stevie hasn't got long to go so why shouldn't he make the most of his remaining time in the game. If he plays well enough and has the appetite, then if it helps Wales to another Grand Slam, then why not?

I suppose some players just don't want to formally retire, like Gareth Thomas. But hes surely and hopefully not going to be selected anytime soon unless we have major injury problems.

Assuming either Tovey/Biggar/Hook make a claim for backup 10 then i think SJ has been effectively retired bu t i think he will keep himself in contention as backup

Wales fly half pecking order:

1) Priestland
2) Steffan Jones
3) Biggar

Tovey will never be good enough. Jones has never been good enough at the biggest moments and is now painfully slow. Hook is terrible.

Harry2899 wrote:Wales fly half pecking order:

1) Priestland
2) Steffan Jones
3) Biggar

Tovey will never be good enough. Jones has never been good enough at the biggest moments and is now painfully slow. Hook is terrible.

Silly comments, Silly "Pink Cowboy Hat" Wum,
104 caps, he was the 10 who was instrumental when Wales beat Australia twice, he was the best player in France at one stage, Lions 10 in two series and around that time Dan Carter said that he was recognised as the best 10 in Europe by most in the SH, and then BOD, Wilko stated he was the best Welsh player in a decade.

fast forward.................Last weekend Jones had 100% accuracy kicking dead ball and out of hand, both Tovey and Steffan Jones missed vital kicks.....

To go back to the OP

You play your best man for that particular game at the moment to win the game not to develope the player, "form" and "horses for courses", if you want to evolve and groom players bring back your "A" team

By the way Hook has already had a MOM performance for Perpignan, he deffo is changing for the better, however he had a mare against NGD

I would say based on performances since the WC its

Priestland (just)
Biggar
Wellies

then you have a Niagra Falls drop to ....well anyone that can string two or more decent games together, that leaves out Tovey, Seffan Jones, Hook, Newton, Shingler, Morgan, Sweeney

Probably select Robinson as he is your most naturally talented 10 anyway

Henson? I have amazed myself but heck he could come straight into the top six

More than any other player, I think that Stephen Jones has never really received the credit he's deserved and I associate this with him being a long time sufferer of 'Welsh Fly Half Syndrome'.

As Wales was blessed in the 60s and 70s with Bennett and John and in the 80s and 90s with Jiffy (who was the most exciting 10 of my childhood), I honestly believe that any fly half who is not a mesmeric strike runner in his own right is regarded somewhat sniffily by Welsh rugby intelligensia. I say this with respect, believe it or not.

Jones is a superb distributor with a great long flat pass, a high percentage goal kicker and is solid in defence. He's been a solid Lions servant too. Scotland would have benefited greatly by having him instead of Good or Desparate in recent years.

But he lacks the 'x' factor for a lot of people, I feel, which as I mention above I think is unfair.

If he wants to say that he's not playing internationals any more, then that's up to him - I think that it's a dignified way of confirming why your name does not appear in the squad sheet any more. Nathan Hines and Alfie are good recent examples of doing this well.

Just an observation from an England fan (and I accept that my team were a disgrace at the World Cup, and our governing body is rancid):

He has been a great servant to Welsh rugby, but he absolutely bottled it in the semi-final. He did not want to take a drop goal that would have put you into the final. The occasion got to him, and it was that more than anything that lost you the semi-final. It was a catastrophic loss of nerve. Your team performance deserved better.

If you defend a Stephen Jones, you are part of the it's ok to lose culture that plagues Welsh rugby. If this is you, go and watch another sport like Hockey or spend some time in the Southern Hemisphere and come back educated.

tooboredtowork wrote:He has been a great servant to Welsh rugby, but he absolutely bottled it in the semi-final. He did not want to take a drop goal that would have put you into the final. The occasion got to him, and it was that more than anything that lost you the semi-final. It was a catastrophic loss of nerve.

Yes I agree. He missed a straight forward conversion and when the opportunity arose for a drop goal, Jones didn’t want to know. If Ronan O’ Gara was in that position he would have relished the opportunity and responsibility as was shown against Northampton and Castres in the Heineken Cup.

no need for him to say anything , if he's picked they want him, if hes not picked they don't.

not every game , or the whole of every game,will be a 'developmental game ' for the youngsters, so not convinced he wont be chosen at sometime in the coming year.

tooboredtowork wrote:Just an observation from an England fan (and I accept that my team were a disgrace at the World Cup, and our governing body is rancid):

He has been a great servant to Welsh rugby, but he absolutely bottled it in the semi-final. He did not want to take a drop goal that would have put you into the final. The occasion got to him, and it was that more than anything that lost you the semi-final. It was a catastrophic loss of nerve. Your team performance deserved better.

You could flip that around and say he kept his cool and played the percentages.

Exactly what percentage of drop gioals, especialy form that rabnge, got landed by anyone in the world cuup? Im guessing not that many. Kicking wasn wayward all round, and he isnt a DG specialist.
Isntead he waited ofr the perfect opportunity or a PK (easier kick) or for the players aorund him to conjure something like a try scoring chance against an abysmal France side that was dead on its feet.

Sure it didnt work out for him, but I actually thought there was a much better chance he spurned earlier than the final splurge led to.

Given how much of a slaughtering Hook took as well you wonder how wlesh rugby has got by at all for the last decade.

Fly half factory - I would say that is the worst comment I have ever read on 606. You clearly know very little.

"By the way Hook has already had a MOM performance for Perpignan, he deffo is changing for the better, however he had a mare against NGD"

Read what you have written there. It makes no sense.

I am suddenly a WUM because I don't like Stephen Jones? If i don't like butter and you do, does that make me a WUM?

I picked Priestland 1. So did you. I put Biggar 3, you put him at 2. I think Steffan Jones could become a welsh James O Connor (who's future is at ten and he will be as good as Carter there. Amazing talent.) You'd rather stick with Jones.

I don't understand why you had to write the comment you wrote.

Stephen Jones - Missed crucial kicks in a game where we could have beaten New Zealand. He missed a crucial one v Ireland when they won the in the millenium stadium. He bottled a kick and a chance for a drop goal v France in the world cup.

James Hook - Blew an overlap against New Zealand when the pressure was on two years ago. He misses vital kicks at international and club level including the world cup semi. He missed a tackle after 30 seconds v South Africa in the pool game and missed a kick because he launched the ball into space on a windy night.

We've tried these two. They don't work. Priestland has earnt his spot, Steffan Jones should have a chance as Biggar did a couple of years ago, and Biggar will be there or thereabouts.

Fly half factory - I would say that is the worst comment I have ever read on 606. You clearly know very little.

"By the way Hook has already had a MOM performance for Perpignan, he deffo is changing for the better, however he had a mare against NGD"

Read what you have written there. It makes no sense.

I am suddenly a WUM because I don't like Stephen Jones? If i don't like butter and you do, does that make me a WUM?

I picked Priestland 1. So did you. I put Biggar 3, you put him at 2. I think Steffan Jones could become a welsh James O Connor (who's future is at ten and he will be as good as Carter there. Amazing talent.) You'd rather stick with Jones.

I don't understand why you had to write the comment you wrote.

Stephen Jones - Missed crucial kicks in a game where we could have beaten New Zealand. He missed a crucial one v Ireland when they won the in the millenium stadium. He bottled a kick and a chance for a drop goal v France in the world cup.

James Hook - Blew an overlap against New Zealand when the pressure was on two years ago. He misses vital kicks at international and club level including the world cup semi. He missed a tackle after 30 seconds v South Africa in the pool game and missed a kick because he launched the ball into space on a windy night.

We've tried these two. They don't work. Priestland has earnt his spot, Steffan Jones should have a chance as Biggar did a couple of years ago, and Biggar will be there or thereabouts.

wales would be in a stronger position now with regards to the amount of experience the up and coming youngsters would have had if wales had ditched hook earier and concentrated on bringing through more talented players in the 10 position. sticking with hook has messed up the progression in the team at 12 and 10.

yep agree with gavhensonhe'sastar

if you regard Hook as a waste of space in that he still now does not own a position then all the other youngsters who could have slotted in have missed out

i compare JH with Ryan in that both make excellent supersubs, but the problem with supersubs is they take up the newcomers opportunities. By being so keen just to play, Hook's evolved as a generalist who couldn't nail down a position. I think he is done with Wales tbh. Time for Ryan to go too in my opinion.

My answer is no. Because if he retires then we have no number 2 fly-half to Priestland. Tovey, Hook and especially Biggar have each shown they aren't capable of being test standard this season.

then keep stephen until that back up evolves

Exactly, he must know it to. Hence the fact has has not announced his retirement yet. Would not like to see Biggar anywhere near centre-field unless he picks up a lot of tips from Priestland. Agree with you on Hook to, he should stay away from the national set up for a long time.

Hook can come back but not this season because he needs a season to learn to play 10 and be good at it. the only other option for me is 12 but i like JD2 and SW and i want to see Gav back in the mix

Harry2899 wrote:Fly half factory - I would say that is the worst comment I have ever read on 606. You clearly know very little.

"By the way Hook has already had a MOM performance for Perpignan, he deffo is changing for the better, however he had a mare against NGD"

Read what you have written there. It makes no sense.

I am suddenly a WUM because I don't like Stephen Jones? If i don't like butter and you do, does that make me a WUM?

I picked Priestland 1. So did you. I put Biggar 3, you put him at 2. I think Steffan Jones could become a welsh James O Connor (who's future is at ten and he will be as good as Carter there. Amazing talent.) You'd rather stick with Jones.

I don't understand why you had to write the comment you wrote.

Stephen Jones - Missed crucial kicks in a game where we could have beaten New Zealand. He missed a crucial one v Ireland when they won the in the millenium stadium. He bottled a kick and a chance for a drop goal v France in the world cup.

James Hook - Blew an overlap against New Zealand when the pressure was on two years ago. He misses vital kicks at international and club level including the world cup semi. He missed a tackle after 30 seconds v South Africa in the pool game and missed a kick because he launched the ball into space on a windy night.

We've tried these two. They don't work. Priestland has earnt his spot, Steffan Jones should have a chance as Biggar did a couple of years ago, and Biggar will be there or thereabouts.

Ruddy Irriot
I have heard some tosh in my time but I think you take the biscuit............. nothing like a TV fan to spout drivel

Hook had played pretty pretty poorly going into and during the WC............ he since joined Perpignan and has one good pre-season game and a MOM performance in his S14 debut, however he didnt play well against the NGD in the Amlin Cup, however 2 good games and one poor is deffo an improvement

And that doesn't make sense to you???............... ruddy irriot

And I didnt say you were a WUM because you dont like Wellies I called you an immature WUM as you said he has never had a good game for Wales ,,,,,,,,What Utter Garbage

If you can't understand that by saying Jones has never had a good game for Wales and has never performed during his tenure ....... Is like you tapping every rugby fan on the shoulder and saying what do you think of that comment

He actually didnt bottle the kick against France if you look at the position he was in ............. he was flatfooted I think he was looking to go for the try, its just that the pass was laboured and too high.

And nothing wrong with bleeding in new talent, I quite like Tovey and Steffan Jones but both were a county mile behind Jones last weekend, whilst Biggar has had 3 MOM performances already this season.............. On these two opinions ........Tell me do you agree or not?

Flyhalffactory - I did not say that Stephen Jones has never had a good game for Wales. I'm assuming you can read so have another look. I said at the biggest moments he's never been good enough. At the biggest moments. I've seen him have some good games, do some clever things but I don't think we should be using him now. That is my opinion.

Now, Don't call me a WUM, a tv fan, or an idiot. You've called me immature - i think you need to take a good look at your own comments! Unsubstantiated rubbish. I assume you're older than me, but probably not nearly as old as you'd have to be, to be as gnarled and angry as you seem on here.

Harry2899 wrote:Flyhalffactory - I did not say that Stephen Jones has never had a good game for Wales. I'm assuming you can read so have another look. I said at the biggest moments he's never been good enough. At the biggest moments. I've seen him have some good games, do some clever things but I don't think we should be using him now. That is my opinion.

Now, Don't call me a WUM, a tv fan, or an idiot. You've called me immature - i think you need to take a good look at your own comments! Unsubstantiated rubbish. I assume you're older than me, but probably not nearly as old as you'd have to be, to be as gnarled and angry as you seem on here.

Laddy

I gave you FACTS not opinion

You stated that at the biggest moments he hasn't been good enough........... I replied with FACTS not opinions to highlight how inaccurate that statement is

I am not Welsh but even I could wack about 10 great games that he was involved in, as I said including 2 Aussie Wins, and French Player Of The Season, some very good Lions matches that he most certainly was, and current international opponents who made have stated how good he actually was

Your reply
"Fly half factory - I would say that is the worst comment I have ever read on 606. You clearly know very little."

So I gave you "facts" and your reply is I know very little, and following that with "unsubstantiated rubbish"........................now that very mature is

Don't run down a player Stephen with "sweeping inaccurate statements" to promote another Steffan

As I said you only had to compare the most recent match to see how the two 10s compared

Anyways "peace brother"

Ah FHF, good to see you back, however Ive got to disagree about the drop goal, he was in position to take it on his correct foot but waved his players into attcking lines and told the scrum half to pass it flat. He then took teh ball into contact and turned it over.

It was the best oppurtunity we had for a dg and he certainly bottled it. That doesnt mean Im anti wellies as you know, I think hes been a great player for Wales.

I do think its time to invest in the future now though and agree with the posts praising Steffan Jones, I think he is certainly somthing special having never been convinced by Tovey. As for Biggar and Morgan well one cant run and the other cant tackle and Im not overly confident in Biggars distribution either.

Hey Tycroes........ How are you old chum?

I kinda get perplexed that people (children!! sorry..... stop it fly) come up with these one liners ............. like harry2899, and when you give instances (facts)to refute the sweeping statement, they come back with "you are talking rubbish" etc

You have a point as most people have stated he bottled it, .............. its just hard to imagine Wellies bottling it in any situation, I do believe he was carrying an injury and his confidence was shot, he thought of drawing one or two men and redistributing (albeit he did pull out of the drop)

I also agree you should invest in the future, but to be honest you will always have this problem of developing players but maybe losing the game or picking your best available team always. I have seen Steffan Jones a few times this season, and the boy has potential (but like in Hooks first season) he is an unknown at the moment and he will therefore have been given alot more space until teams get to know him. Last weekend Jones Snr (100% accuracy) was a country mile ahead of Jones Jnr, so the other side of the argument is Wales really need to get into a winning mentality so you play your most appropriate players based on Form and Experience.

Thats why you should have an A Team (not mad dog and face etc), so that you can see if the "Steffan Jones, Shinglers, Toveys" of Wales can crank it up

Hope you are well Tycroes ............... and Wales (and Shane) have a great result

I'll be rooting tooting guns ablazing cheering you on ...... Heeeee Haaaaa

It says it all that when he took a short arm smash to the jaw in the Dragons match he stayed on but the perpetrator went off with an injured arm.

I have voted yes for selfish reasons, I want to remember when he was Mr Dependable. Jonathan Davies played one test after his RL career and it was a disaster. I don't want to remember a match like that Stephen was involved in.

Jesus, this has turned into an incredibly angry thread.

Had no idea that so many Welsh fans were not fans of Jones.

At least Blues fans will see what we've had to put up with from Parks for years...

Are you saying Jones and Parks are on a par?

Ok.

(nutter )

Seriously though, Jones is the same as Neil Jenkins, we'll only really value him when he's gone. Yesterday was a classic example of Priestland shipping poor ball and putting his backs under pressure, something Jones and even Biggar don't do.

I'm afraid we're in for a rude awakening in the 6N if we drop Jones from the squad.

Glas a du wrote:Are you saying Jones and Parks are on a par?

In terms of how angry they make their national team's fans?

Sh!tting hell, yes.

Ah I see. That's fair enough. I suspect the percentage of Scots that want Parks to retire is greater than 45%

on saturdays showing, dont go yet wellies.

Why lose a good player just for the sake of it, if Wellies is good enough he will be picked, if not he won't at the moment he isn't playing well and Wales have better options.

couldn't have put it better Alyn

Smirnoffpriest wrote:couldn't have put it better Alyn

+1

He should play until he is no longer selected.

That said Priestland is the form fly half in Wales with Biggar nipping at his heels.

It will be a horrible realisation to a lot of people on here when they learn that Matthew Morgan will probably never make it at this level, hes struggling in the Robocop pro 12.

I thought Steffan Jones had a pretty poor game tonight for the Dragons, so I cant see him making the squad this season. Tovey can be good and I would like to see him play for Wales but hes a bit injury prone. James Hook has a few games to prove himself at 10 for Perpignan, hopefully he will return to some form.

gavstar wrote:on saturdays showing, dont go yet wellies.

X 2

a little for biggar, on couple of minutes , slotted not an easy pen. well done kid.

gavstar wrote:a little for biggar, on couple of minutes , slotted not an easy pen. well done kid.

seriously gav

don't know about you but i would much prefer wellies there, he is solid experienced and whilst on form should be sub

ask yourslef who do you want to come on if priestland is injured in the first 10....biggar?! tovey?

For me it is wellies and then, at a push, an on form Hook

Hope Gavin Henson gets 4 or 5 games between now and feb because in truth i would rather he come on than either biggar or tovey

my heart says wellies and henson, my head says no chance, those upstairs are looking ahead, maybe TOO FAR ahead

perhaps yes, they have mixed youth with experience and form with potential well up to now but Wales also have their hands forced by the need to deepen the strength in the squad. I really want to see Henson back but only if he has a string of good games for Cardiff. However i just cannot see it and unless he plays 2012 I think it will be a chance gone and like Nugget he will fade away

unfortunately I don't think he'll ever fade away as quietly or with the respectability that Martyn Williams is.

I have a horrid feeling that if he can't make the grade at the Blues (and it will probably involve quite a bit of Hook-esque shifting to different positions) then we'll see a celebrity version of Tool Academy coming to a Sky channel near you

yes comparisons are poor...Williams an all time great welsh player, Henson an all time great potentially but more style than substance, if he could cast off the hubris and get some luck on the injury front he is still a player i love to watch