Top 10 International Runners Ever?
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yappysnap
Red Right
jbeadlesbigrighthand
TJ1
doctor_grey
LondonTiger
aucklandlaurie
CurlyOsp
nganboy
blackcanelion
Ospreydragon
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gowales
formerly known as Sam
cabbagesandbrussels
Cymroglan
maestegmafia
Feckless Rogue
rodders
eirebilly
westisbest
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funnyExiledScot
red_stag
Turkster
Geordie
34 posters
The v2 Forum :: Sport :: Rugby Union :: International
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Top 10 International Runners Ever?
A previous thread on Shane Williams made me think about the greatest runners in our game...either through brute power and pace...or sublime side steps etc....
Some only flirted with the international game - the likes of Rupeni Caucau through his bad attitude...or the brilliant Simon Geogehan through injury....
This is not about best tacklers etc...purely on their ability with ball in hand......
Who would you include in the 10 best ever?
Cullen, Lomu, Wilson, Kirwan?
Campese?
Any of the brilliant Welsh?
Duckham, Robinson?
Habana?
Blanco?
Some only flirted with the international game - the likes of Rupeni Caucau through his bad attitude...or the brilliant Simon Geogehan through injury....
This is not about best tacklers etc...purely on their ability with ball in hand......
Who would you include in the 10 best ever?
Cullen, Lomu, Wilson, Kirwan?
Campese?
Any of the brilliant Welsh?
Duckham, Robinson?
Habana?
Blanco?
Geordie- Posts : 28483
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Location : Newcastle
Re: Top 10 International Runners Ever?
Barry John and Gerald Davies should be in the list, Christian Cullen would be top of it for me though.
Turkster- Posts : 529
Join date : 2011-05-31
Location : Burry Port
Re: Top 10 International Runners Ever?
Anyone who can do it in modern times earns extra kudos as its much harder to run through defences nowadays.
11 S.Williams
14 J.Robinson
15 C. Cullen
Thats as good a back three as you'd find.
11 S.Williams
14 J.Robinson
15 C. Cullen
Thats as good a back three as you'd find.
Re: Top 10 International Runners Ever?
I'm not going to pick players I haven't seen, but my list would be something like this (in order):
1.Christian Cullen
2.Jonah Lomu
3.Shane Williams
4.David Campese
5.Jeff Wilson
6.Jason Robinson
7. Rup Caucau
8.Jeremy Guscott
9.Doug Howlett
10.Ieuan Evans
Honourable mention to Serevi from the 7's circuit.
1.Christian Cullen
2.Jonah Lomu
3.Shane Williams
4.David Campese
5.Jeff Wilson
6.Jason Robinson
7. Rup Caucau
8.Jeremy Guscott
9.Doug Howlett
10.Ieuan Evans
Honourable mention to Serevi from the 7's circuit.
funnyExiledScot- Posts : 17065
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Re: Top 10 International Runners Ever?
Crumbs, forgot Habana.....and Gavin Hastings....
funnyExiledScot- Posts : 17065
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Location : Edinburgh
Re: Top 10 International Runners Ever?
From a biased kiwi perspective I'd go for Cullen, Wilson and Kirwan
Lomu did outrageous things running with the ball too.
Lomu did outrageous things running with the ball too.
chewed_mintie- Posts : 1225
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Location : Cheshire
Re: Top 10 International Runners Ever?
Geogehan as said above
Actually though Dennis Hickie was a great runner with ball in hand
Actually though Dennis Hickie was a great runner with ball in hand
westisbest- Posts : 7917
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Location : Bournemouth
Re: Top 10 International Runners Ever?
I loved Kirwan and Cullen running with the ball, they were a sight to be seen. Lomu was just a monster.
People often forget just how good Tim Horan was as a ball runner. He and Jason little formed one of the best centre partnerships i have ever seen.
People often forget just how good Tim Horan was as a ball runner. He and Jason little formed one of the best centre partnerships i have ever seen.
eirebilly- Posts : 24807
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Re: Top 10 International Runners Ever?
Christian Cullen was the best for me. No question.
O'Driscoll and D'arcy were electric runners in their primes.
Stephen Larkham, Ben Tune and Joe Roff were awesome too.
O'Driscoll and D'arcy were electric runners in their primes.
Stephen Larkham, Ben Tune and Joe Roff were awesome too.
rodders- Moderator
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Re: Top 10 International Runners Ever?
The best I've seen are Cullen, Lomu, Williams and Robinson.
If you put Hickie in space he was devastating. But He wouldn't be close to the above for making it himself. Still though, a great defender, super fast, one of my favourite Leinster players ever.
And now to post a link to my favourite Hickie try from my favourite ever game. You all know you want to see it again
If you put Hickie in space he was devastating. But He wouldn't be close to the above for making it himself. Still though, a great defender, super fast, one of my favourite Leinster players ever.
And now to post a link to my favourite Hickie try from my favourite ever game. You all know you want to see it again
Feckless Rogue- Posts : 3230
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Re: Top 10 International Runners Ever?
As well as the obvious Shane Williams, here are a few others that come to mind over different periods of Rugby History
Christian cullen
Jason Robinson
john bentley
Barry John
David Campese
Gerald Davies
Rupeni Caucaunibuca
Jonathon Davies
Thomas Castenede
Bleddyn Williams
Christian cullen
Jason Robinson
john bentley
Barry John
David Campese
Gerald Davies
Rupeni Caucaunibuca
Jonathon Davies
Thomas Castenede
Bleddyn Williams
maestegmafia- Posts : 23145
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Re: Top 10 International Runners Ever?
Gareth Edwards would be on my list outstanding at running, passing, kicking and reading the game.
Rubbish studio pundit though
Rubbish studio pundit though
Cymroglan- Posts : 4171
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Re: Top 10 International Runners Ever?
Easy....
1. Jason Robinson - pure electric pace from a standing start.
2.Christian Cullen - amazing turn of pace.
3. Phillipe Sella - silky.
4. Jonah Lomu - brute force and bloody quick.
5. John Kirwan - powerful and very quick.
6. David Campese - silky.
7. Jeff Wilson - silky.
8. Rory Underwood - electric pace.
9. Simon Geoghan - powerful runner with a great turn of pace
10. Jeremy Guscott - silky with a wonderful turn of pace.
1. Jason Robinson - pure electric pace from a standing start.
2.Christian Cullen - amazing turn of pace.
3. Phillipe Sella - silky.
4. Jonah Lomu - brute force and bloody quick.
5. John Kirwan - powerful and very quick.
6. David Campese - silky.
7. Jeff Wilson - silky.
8. Rory Underwood - electric pace.
9. Simon Geoghan - powerful runner with a great turn of pace
10. Jeremy Guscott - silky with a wonderful turn of pace.
Last edited by cabbagesandbrussels on Tue 29 Nov 2011, 16:21; edited 1 time in total
cabbagesandbrussels- Posts : 282
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Re: Top 10 International Runners Ever?
funnyExiledScot wrote:Crumbs, forgot Habana.....and Gavin Hastings....
cabbagesandbrussels- Posts : 282
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Re: Top 10 International Runners Ever?
In modern times Geordan Murphy has done some magical things and, although, his overall game is fairly poor Abendanon runs with ball in hand very well.
Robinson still has the best feet I've ever seen though.
Robinson still has the best feet I've ever seen though.
formerly known as Sam- Posts : 20614
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Re: Top 10 International Runners Ever?
roddersm wrote:Christian Cullen was the best for me. No question.
O'Driscoll and D'arcy were electric runners in their primes.
Stephen Larkham, Ben Tune and Joe Roff were awesome too.
hahaha D'arcy...
gowales- Posts : 2942
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Re: Top 10 International Runners Ever?
Maesteg. Can't believe I forgot about Rupeni Caucaunibuca. Didn't have the greatest career in the end. But his talent was sensational.
Link
Imagine that natural ability went with the mentality of someone like Wilkinson or O'Driscoll.
Link
Imagine that natural ability went with the mentality of someone like Wilkinson or O'Driscoll.
Feckless Rogue- Posts : 3230
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Re: Top 10 International Runners Ever?
gowales wrote:roddersm wrote:Christian Cullen was the best for me. No question.
O'Driscoll and D'arcy were electric runners in their primes.
Stephen Larkham, Ben Tune and Joe Roff were awesome too.
hahaha D'arcy...
Its true. D'arcy circa 2004 was as devestating a runner as I've seen. Better than BOD at times. In 2006 he was the same, he could make breaks from anywhere.
rodders- Moderator
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Re: Top 10 International Runners Ever?
loved watching Scott Gibbs...
bluestonevedder- Posts : 3952
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Re: Top 10 International Runners Ever?
Danie Gerber and Carel Du Plessis must definitely be considered 'best runner' candidates, especially Gerber: Fast, powerful with a mind-boggling side-step off either foot.
Mr Fishpaste- Posts : 771
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Re: Top 10 International Runners Ever?
Oh and don't forget Os Du Randt: surprisingly fast with a non-existent side-step.
Mr Fishpaste- Posts : 771
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Re: Top 10 International Runners Ever?
Phill Bennett, incredible pace, amazing side step but probably even smaller than Ickle Shane!
Seagultaf- Posts : 1404
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Re: Top 10 International Runners Ever?
Feckless Rogue wrote:Maesteg. Can't believe I forgot about Rupeni Caucaunibuca. Didn't have the greatest career in the end. But his talent was sensational.
Link
Imagine that natural ability went with the mentality of someone like Wilkinson or O'Driscoll.
The problem is Caucaus ability is generally seen in people who definately dont have the mentality of a Wilkinson or an O'Driscoll...their play is impulsive and they just go for it....as did Cullen Campese etc....
For me Caucau is just a pleasure to watch...unreal talent...such a waste.
Geordie- Posts : 28483
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Re: Top 10 International Runners Ever?
Just out of curious...was Cullen particularly fast...or was it just he ran great lines...great sidestep and was very strong....
In clips...he doesnt look absolutely fighteningly quick...but i may be mistaken...
In clips...he doesnt look absolutely fighteningly quick...but i may be mistaken...
Geordie- Posts : 28483
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Re: Top 10 International Runners Ever?
Although it means I'm agreeing with Turkster - Cullen was in a league of his own, even compared to Lomu, Campese, Caucau etc.
Normal sized and not track-sprinter fast - he remains the only rugby player who has earned his own Creed montage on Youtube;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0945lQKP7I
Normal sized and not track-sprinter fast - he remains the only rugby player who has earned his own Creed montage on Youtube;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0945lQKP7I
Casartelli- Posts : 1935
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Re: Top 10 International Runners Ever?
Geordie he was frighteningly quick. 95-99 I didn't see him get caught from behind.
His ability to sidestep both wats at that extreme pace set him apart. Timing into the backline, strength, he had it all. Best runner with the ball I've ever seen. Beat Caucau for mine.
His ability to sidestep both wats at that extreme pace set him apart. Timing into the backline, strength, he had it all. Best runner with the ball I've ever seen. Beat Caucau for mine.
disneychilly- Posts : 2156
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Re: Top 10 International Runners Ever?
Gerald Davies was a fantastic runner -- probably even quicker than Shane and just as good a sidestep.
JJ Williams was frighteningly quick (I know 'cos I ran against him a few times in sprints) and a master of the chip and chase.
JJ Williams was frighteningly quick (I know 'cos I ran against him a few times in sprints) and a master of the chip and chase.
Ospreydragon- Posts : 528
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Re: Top 10 International Runners Ever?
Cullen could shift no doubt about it!
The most amazing thing was his ability to change direction at top speed. He was deceptively strong and smart too. I've never seen a player like him.
A few have come close like Robinson and Williams but Cullen was something else. That try against NSW for the Hurricanes was unbelievable!
The most amazing thing was his ability to change direction at top speed. He was deceptively strong and smart too. I've never seen a player like him.
A few have come close like Robinson and Williams but Cullen was something else. That try against NSW for the Hurricanes was unbelievable!
rodders- Moderator
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Re: Top 10 International Runners Ever?
How about by decade
2000's 1. Rokocoko, 2. Robinson, 3. Carter
1990's 1. Lomu, 2 Caucauinbuca, 3. Cullen
1980's 1. Campese, 2. Kirwin, 3. Gerber
1970's Can't remember
1960's before my time.
2000's 1. Rokocoko, 2. Robinson, 3. Carter
1990's 1. Lomu, 2 Caucauinbuca, 3. Cullen
1980's 1. Campese, 2. Kirwin, 3. Gerber
1970's Can't remember
1960's before my time.
blackcanelion- Posts : 1989
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Re: Top 10 International Runners Ever?
I met Cullen recently. Little fellah - not much bigger than me. I smashed my shoulder playing TOUCH rugby. He broke an international locks collar bone in a tackle. Can't remember who it was though. Also one of the strongest ABs in the team at the time could bench press the same as props.
nganboy- Posts : 1868
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Re: Top 10 International Runners Ever?
For me, Williams tops the list every time. Real excitement every time he touches the ball, gave a struggling team hope in any situation.. Just look at his tries against Scotland and France in the 2010 6 nations.
As for the rest of the list, in no particular order..
Rupeni Caucaunibuca
David Campese
Christian Cullen
Jason Robinson
John Kirwan
Jonah Lomu
Joe Rokocoko
Doug Howlett
Then there's always the likes of Ngwenya, Bobo, Tuilagi and Chavhanga who can be spectacular on occasion and potential future ledgends like north and Dagg.
As for the rest of the list, in no particular order..
Rupeni Caucaunibuca
David Campese
Christian Cullen
Jason Robinson
John Kirwan
Jonah Lomu
Joe Rokocoko
Doug Howlett
Then there's always the likes of Ngwenya, Bobo, Tuilagi and Chavhanga who can be spectacular on occasion and potential future ledgends like north and Dagg.
CurlyOsp- Posts : 327
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Re: Top 10 International Runners Ever?
As disney mentioned above Cullen could step both ways because he could step off both feet. But his best displays were some of his from behind your owngoal line tries that he scored in sevens.
But here's one to have a look at some time, young guy called Corey Jane,.
But here's one to have a look at some time, young guy called Corey Jane,.
aucklandlaurie- Posts : 7561
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Re: Top 10 International Runners Ever?
cabbagesandbrussels wrote:
8. Rory Underwood - electric pace.
Rory was one of the best finishers of all time, helped by great speed, incredible acceleration from a standing start and strength (in 1984 Daley Thomson told him he should become a decathlete - he was national schools champion for 100m and the Northern Schools champion for Long Jump and Shot Putt, not competing in these two at the Nationals) plus a willingness to go where it hurts.
However as an exciting runner he is not the best in his family (and perhaps wasn't even second best).
Tony had the same speed - probably more - but also a fantastic sidestep. His broken field running was perhaps never really noticed as he strived, and failed, to get out of his brothers shadow, but time after time you would see him running the ball back towards traffic and step his way through it.
LondonTiger- Moderator
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Re: Top 10 International Runners Ever?
I can't put people in any order of who was best, but Lomu changed Rugby and was the first real global Rugby superstar.
So the top 5 that I can think of as I have my morning coffee:
Jonah Lomu
Jason Robinson
Christian Cullen
Bryan Habana
Scott Gibbs
There are a number more of real terrific runners, and certainly Shane Williams deserves to be with them. He is a deadly runner.
I also wanted to add an Aussie, David Camp.........Campe..........C-a-m-p-e......
Hands - will - not - type - that - name.
He who shall not be named.
So the top 5 that I can think of as I have my morning coffee:
Jonah Lomu
Jason Robinson
Christian Cullen
Bryan Habana
Scott Gibbs
There are a number more of real terrific runners, and certainly Shane Williams deserves to be with them. He is a deadly runner.
I also wanted to add an Aussie, David Camp.........Campe..........C-a-m-p-e......
Hands - will - not - type - that - name.
He who shall not be named.
doctor_grey- Posts : 11970
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Re: Top 10 International Runners Ever?
The best I have seen was Robinson his ability to beat a man one on one was great
TJ1- Posts : 2666
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Re: Top 10 International Runners Ever?
Having followed rugby since the mid-1950s this is hard. There have been so many exciting runners with the ability to thrill crowds for different reasons on their way to scoring tries, eg. Lomu going through/over tacklers, Habana for pick-ups and lightning dashes over 40 yards, Cliff Morgan for darting hunched-over like an electric mouse, Kirwan for striking with whirlwind pace over long distances, Blanco for cool daring in impossible situations, etc.
But the question specified 'ball in hand', so I've concentrated on runners whose possession of the ball made them great. My choices are Barry John, whom I watched many times, and David Campese, whom I watched half a dozen times. Those two didn't rely on strong physiques or big side-steps and weren't especially pacy. Yet the way they handled the ball conned normally excellent defenders into making bad decisions which led to tries.
I don't just mean that they could sell dummies. They both used subtle body movement, changes of pace, and even eye movement to deceive opponents into split-second mistakes about where the ball was going next. These, combined with awareness of other player's positions and movement, gave rise to the stories of them 'mesmerising' opponents. Self-confidence helped too!
But the question specified 'ball in hand', so I've concentrated on runners whose possession of the ball made them great. My choices are Barry John, whom I watched many times, and David Campese, whom I watched half a dozen times. Those two didn't rely on strong physiques or big side-steps and weren't especially pacy. Yet the way they handled the ball conned normally excellent defenders into making bad decisions which led to tries.
I don't just mean that they could sell dummies. They both used subtle body movement, changes of pace, and even eye movement to deceive opponents into split-second mistakes about where the ball was going next. These, combined with awareness of other player's positions and movement, gave rise to the stories of them 'mesmerising' opponents. Self-confidence helped too!
Guest- Guest
Re: Top 10 International Runners Ever?
CurlyOsp wrote:For me, Williams tops the list every time. Real excitement every time he touches the ball, gave a struggling team hope in any situation.. Just look at his tries against Scotland and France in the 2010 6 nations.
As for the rest of the list, in no particular order..
Rupeni Caucaunibuca
David Campese
Christian Cullen
Jason Robinson
John Kirwan
Jonah Lomu
Joe Rokocoko
Doug Howlett
Then there's always the likes of Ngwenya, Bobo, Tuilagi and Chavhanga who can be spectacular on occasion and potential future ledgends like north and Dagg.
Hmmm... I think there might be a little bit of bias in that opinion. Nonetheless, I can understand why any Welsh fan would put him top. I do feel, though, that part the reason he stood out as being so special was because the players around him weren't of the same calibre as those around Cullen, for instance.
I guess I always think of runners as being split between the pure pace and/ or power types, and the electric runners with a great change of direction. To me, Caucau's the real standout, because he fits so perfectly under both categories. If only he'd had the work ethic of most of the other players listed so far.
jbeadlesbigrighthand- Posts : 719
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Re: Top 10 International Runners Ever?
Personally I'd have to agree that Cullen was a step above all others. He never looked to be going that fast but he always seemed to have the ability to wrong foot anyone who was facing him. By all accounts his strenght was unreal. Apparently, even though he spent a lot of his time on the treatment table at Munster, he did bring a whole new ethos to the province regarding physical training - romour has it that when he arrived he was bench pressing more than anyone else on the squad.
Its hard to argue with any of the lists above but Phillipe Salle is one I remeber - maybe its due to France always beating Ireland and him getting on the scoresheet more often than not....thinking about it now though, that may have been more to great positional sense rather than lightening speed!
Simon Geoghan was electrifying, I think there are 2 reasons why he never really got the recognition he deserved 1) Injury did scupper his career. 2) He played on an Irish team at the time thought anyone standing out by the touchline was either a touch judge or a supporter....Irish players definitely did not hang around out there!!!
Its hard to argue with any of the lists above but Phillipe Salle is one I remeber - maybe its due to France always beating Ireland and him getting on the scoresheet more often than not....thinking about it now though, that may have been more to great positional sense rather than lightening speed!
Simon Geoghan was electrifying, I think there are 2 reasons why he never really got the recognition he deserved 1) Injury did scupper his career. 2) He played on an Irish team at the time thought anyone standing out by the touchline was either a touch judge or a supporter....Irish players definitely did not hang around out there!!!
Red Right- Posts : 231
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Re: Top 10 International Runners Ever?
Red Right wrote: he did bring a whole new ethos to the province regarding physical training - romour has it that when he arrived he was bench pressing more than anyone else on the squad.
Yeah I remember reading an article about him when he had just burst on the scene. Apparantly he could bench press double his body weight or something. He was pretty Small (5'10 and 13 ish stone) but was one of the strongest members of the AB's squad...one that included Jonah Lomu and Tana Umaga!
I think thats what helped make him so elusive. On the very rare occaisons anyone could lay a finger on him, they just slipped off him he was so strong. That 1st season he came on the scene he was averaging about 2 tries a game...he seemed to score evertime he had the ball.
He definitely lost a bit of gas towards the end but at his peak he was the closest thing I've seen to an unstoppable player.
Even Lomu used to call him a freak!
rodders- Moderator
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Re: Top 10 International Runners Ever?
I cant believe a link hasnt already been posted. This is running brilliance personified...!
https://youtu.be/rxh3utC4K_c
https://youtu.be/rxh3utC4K_c
maestegmafia- Posts : 23145
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Re: Top 10 International Runners Ever?
[quote="roddersm]Even Lomu used to call him a freak! [/quote]
Yeah, thats fair praise!
Yeah, thats fair praise!
Red Right- Posts : 231
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Re: Top 10 International Runners Ever?
jbeadles, There's no doubt that theres bias in my choice of Williams but he certainly deserves to be up there with the others mentioned.
These players should be measured against the defences they've beaten rather than the players surrounding them, as even though Williams has been in some strong teams (Wales '08, Lions etc..) the best memories for me are unlocking such defences as New Zealand in RWC '03 to set up brilliant team trys.
As for the greatest potential, completely agree with Caucau, what a waste of talent! Could have been a bigger name than Lomu had he taken the game more seriously or had someone to give him a slap on the wrist.
These players should be measured against the defences they've beaten rather than the players surrounding them, as even though Williams has been in some strong teams (Wales '08, Lions etc..) the best memories for me are unlocking such defences as New Zealand in RWC '03 to set up brilliant team trys.
As for the greatest potential, completely agree with Caucau, what a waste of talent! Could have been a bigger name than Lomu had he taken the game more seriously or had someone to give him a slap on the wrist.
CurlyOsp- Posts : 327
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Re: Top 10 International Runners Ever?
I am still amazed that Tim Horan hasnt made anyones list. He had power, pace and could step off either foot. One of the best centres i have ever seen play the game.
eirebilly- Posts : 24807
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Re: Top 10 International Runners Ever?
Don't tell him but Austin Healey was a pretty smart runner in his prime too.
Not up there with the names above though.
Not up there with the names above though.
yappysnap- Posts : 11993
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Re: Top 10 International Runners Ever?
And doing it for the frontrow Schalk Brits and in his prime Phil Vickery both have/had impressive running games. Very different styles though obviously.
yappysnap- Posts : 11993
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Re: Top 10 International Runners Ever?
If we are including forwards how about Parisse for the modern day and Mervyn Davies from days of yore. (Heck even his nickname, "Merve teh Swerve" is applicable)
LondonTiger- Moderator
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Re: Top 10 International Runners Ever?
Who was the Welsh prop who scored in the WC from about 30 metres out with a step and everything?
yappysnap- Posts : 11993
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Re: Top 10 International Runners Ever?
Serge Blanco anyone? Can't believe nobody has even mentioned him...also Andy Irvine.
mckay1402- Posts : 2512
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Re: Top 10 International Runners Ever?
Gethin Jenkinsyappysnap wrote:Who was the Welsh prop who scored in the WC from about 30 metres out with a step and everything?
mckay1402- Posts : 2512
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Re: Top 10 International Runners Ever?
Keith Wood is often ignored in this debate because he played in the front row. But that boy could move.
Michael Jones is another forward who had electric pace.
Conrad Smith is a deceptive one. It looks as though he´s half jogging and then he often gets by. Carter is another one who can be deceptively quick.
Michael Jones is another forward who had electric pace.
Conrad Smith is a deceptive one. It looks as though he´s half jogging and then he often gets by. Carter is another one who can be deceptively quick.
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