Scarlets 14 v 17 Munster

by Glas a du Fri Dec 09, 2011 8:07 am

First topic message reminder :

Parc Y Scarlets 10/12/11

In the pre match preamble I asked two questions:
1 will the injury to Howlett make any difference at all?
2 can the Scarlets pack withstand the onslaught they are bound to face and get any sort of decent ball for the Scarlets to get their running game going

They were the wrong questions. In the event Munster chucked it about with abandon (for two or three phases anyway) and Zebo looked quite at home.

The Scarlets had plenty of ball but for the main part were clueless with it.

What are your thoughts?

by ME-109 Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:30 am

BlueMuff wrote:Afternoon all,

What a weekend in Wales - great craic in "The BeefEater". Nearly want to go back there today because all pints are £1.50 for tradesmen between 6 and 9 but only if your wearing your uniform.....

Anyway here are my thoughts on the match

1. Great win for Munster against a form team. Not many were predicting a Munster win before the match moreover a bonus point was the general concensus.

2. Huge travelling Munster support but surprised that a stadium that holds 14,500 wasnt a complete sell out.

3. Zebo - dont know whether its cause I was drunk or he a had a completely mixed game but can somebody clarify did he play well or badly???

4. Niall Ronan - thought he was immense and the try was the icing on the cake.

5. POC and ROG - can we build the statues outside Thomond now....

6. BJ - what a signing. For me the single reason we failed to qaulify last year was getting hammered in the scrum in Toulon and against the Ospreys home and away.

7. The bench really really made a big impact.

All in all two great away wins that now has us in the driving seat for home quarter final when hopefully we will have Jones and earls back

3. Overall did well. Sound in defence made a couple of breaks and went looking for work and spent probably more time shoring up rucks etc than he should have.

4. Ronan very good but Coughlan was the pick of the backrows for me. Back to full fitness and form.

5. After rewatching the game it was like watching the POC and ROG show. Both lead from the front.

6. BJ - our best signing since Tipoki in terms of the difference he could make to the side if we progress.

7. Having players like DOC, TOL etc coming off the bench is a strength for us in the last quarter as the last three games have shown.

Who would you change for Jones and Earls?

by **rodders** Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:33 am

DOD wrote:
Who would you change for Jones and Earls?

Earls to 13 instead of Chambers and the outstanding Johne Murphy to the wing to make way for Jones?

When are these guys and Wallace back?

by Glas a du Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:35 am

5. POC and ROG - can we build the statues outside Thomond now....

That's right. They were both brilliant on Saturday. ROG won you the match.

(Botha) still one of the best scrummagers in the world when it comes to technique.

I'm sorry? If your technique is binding on the arm and hope you get away with it then fair enough.

by Rory_Gallagher Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:37 am

Oh dear.

Well anyways, ignoring the above post, it will be interesting when Earls especially returns. I never thought I would agree with this, but I could see Earls playing 12 for Munster.

9) Murray
10) ROG
11) Zebo
12) Earls
13) Barnes/Chambers
14) Murphy
15) Jones

I would be happy if Earls managed to adapt to 12, but I am not sure he would.

by Chunky Norwich Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:39 am

Earls won't be fit will he? Surely he'll be lining up for Munster A?

by Smirnoffpriest Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:39 am

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:
Smirnoffpriest wrote:I can't believe I read that the irish didn't feel aggrieved about the Phillips try - it's still being mentioned now and at the time and for months after the boards were full of fans berating the ref, Rees, Phillips, the Linesman, the result even Gatland came in for a lot of stick.

It's the same as happens with most teams (such as Wales and Warbs red card) but I def would love to see the irish aggrieved if (in Thomonds opinion) that was not aggrieved

I can see why you would link these 2 events in your head ok.

A situation where the one of the best refs in Rugby makes the right call (perhaps slightly harsh, but right) which is acknowledged as right by the player concerned.

Is exactly the same as.

A total clown of a assistant ref who should not be reffing the u13s gets a call abut as wrong as can be, and the ref makes a decision based on it.

Do you believe in creationism also?

Umm not sure what your getting at here. Who said I'd linked, compared or in any way stated any similarities between two different events? I can't remember claiming either decision was right or wrong in this thread either.

I did make a statement that both events - and many others involving these and other nations around the world - had created controversy that had meant fans coming on here and other forums and mentioning it quite a lot.
But I'm not sure how the above could be construed as me backing one decision over the other or saying 2 totally seperate incidents were similar.

Could you explain please?

by BlueMuff Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:43 am

DOD Coughlan was brilliant. First time he played a full match in a while and he has really gained full high intensity match fittness.

If had choice would take Jones back first as we need an out and out FB. However both back together would be even better. We are lacking creativity and both of these players can create something out of nothing. Both have pace that we are lacking at the moment.

As a mid term report and I would say things are progressing nicely. Long way to go in season but we have put ourselves exactly where we would want to be with two away wins.

by Glas a du Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:44 am

Scarlets 14 v 17 Munster - Page 8 3933776953

And another thing, this nonsense about silence for the kicker, how many Irish fans booed Dan Parks in 2010? warning

You are a bunch of hypocrites, everything to suit you raspberry

Then all sweetness and light at the full time whistle vomit

But, sure, you're good craic in the bar kiss

by Rory_Gallagher Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:44 am

Any opinions on the possibility of Earls at 12? I am certain a few years ago, for Ireland A, Earls played 12 with Cave at 13. I vaguely remember this.

by Jenifer McLadyboy Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:49 am

Smirnoffpriest wrote:
Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:
Smirnoffpriest wrote:I can't believe I read that the irish didn't feel aggrieved about the Phillips try - it's still being mentioned now and at the time and for months after the boards were full of fans berating the ref, Rees, Phillips, the Linesman, the result even Gatland came in for a lot of stick.

It's the same as happens with most teams (such as Wales and Warbs red card) but I def would love to see the irish aggrieved if (in Thomonds opinion) that was not aggrieved

I can see why you would link these 2 events in your head ok.

A situation where the one of the best refs in Rugby makes the right call (perhaps slightly harsh, but right) which is acknowledged as right by the player concerned.

Is exactly the same as.

A total clown of a assistant ref who should not be reffing the u13s gets a call abut as wrong as can be, and the ref makes a decision based on it.

Do you believe in creationism also?

Umm not sure what your getting at here. Who said I'd linked, compared or in any way stated any similarities between two different events? I can't remember claiming either decision was right or wrong in this thread either.

I did make a statement that both events - and many others involving these and other nations around the world - had created controversy that had meant fans coming on here and other forums and mentioning it quite a lot.
But I'm not sure how the above could be construed as me backing one decision over the other or saying 2 totally seperate incidents were similar.

Could you explain please?

Sorry mate. I took you up wrong. I thought you were comparing the 2 events, you were comparing the outrage. Sorry.

by **rodders** Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:53 am

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Any opinions on the possibility of Earls at 12? I am certain a few years ago, for Ireland A, Earls played 12 with Cave at 13. I vaguely remember this.

I think you're right about him playing there for Ireland A's with Cave but no I don't think he could or should play 12. IMO his best positions are 15, 14, 11 and 13 in that order and he's most effective in space and when the game breaks up. I think given that both Munster and Ireland have limited options at 13 but numerous in the back 3 he may play 13 more regularly in the short term at least.

by Rory_Gallagher Tue Dec 13, 2011 2:05 am

I would always have agreed with that Rodders, but I think Earls is going to be slotted into 12 at Munster. I think Ireland in general and Munster are doing okay at 13 - there are many potential options. At 12, Ireland have D'Arcy and McFadden, who isn't even getting game time at 12. We need some more options, and perhaps Earls could adapt. He may not however.

by **rodders** Tue Dec 13, 2011 2:09 am

I'm open minded about these things rory...I think we get too hung up over here that players can only play 1 position. IMO 12 and 13 are not that different but I don't think Earls is suited to 13 either.

That said if he play's there for Munster (I don't think he will) then he's an option of course.

by Rory_Gallagher Tue Dec 13, 2011 2:13 am

roddersm wrote:I'm open minded about these things rory...I think we get too hung up over here that players can only play 1 position. IMO 12 and 13 are not that different but I don't think Earls is suited to 13 either.

That said if he play's there for Munster (I don't think he will) then he's an option of course.

You know, I tend to agree with you about that. Same can be said for flanker, wing and second row. I think the balance must be right, rather than a certain type of 12, 13, 7 etc.

by valjester Tue Dec 13, 2011 2:46 am

Rory_Gallagher wrote:
roddersm wrote:I'm open minded about these things rory...I think we get too hung up over here that players can only play 1 position. IMO 12 and 13 are not that different but I don't think Earls is suited to 13 either.

That said if he play's there for Munster (I don't think he will) then he's an option of course.

You know, I tend to agree with you about that. Same can be said for flanker, wing and second row. I think the balance must be right, rather than a certain type of 12, 13, 7 etc.

Exactly, Earls could play 12 with Cave at 13 because of the type of player he is, I'm not sure how well it would work if he had to be the brains of the operation.

On Zebo, he looked the same as he always does, potentially excellent in attack and completely lost in defence. The Scarlets seemed to fixated with running into Rog in the second half instead of playing their natural game and going wide. Its a stupid tactic that too many teams use against Munster, there were a number of times where the Scarlets players stopped to look for Rog in the line and then ran into him, Munster know this is going to happen, they have prepared for it and will have someone there to help. The few times they tried to go wide Zebo's positioning was awful and could have been costly if not for poor Scarlets passing on three or four occassions. As has been said hes only 21 so plenty of time to work on it but he really needs to learn or he won't make it much further which would be a shame as he has a lot of potential.

by Rory_Gallagher Tue Dec 13, 2011 3:17 am

If he is liable in defence, a good defensive 13 such as Spence I think would work very well with the likes of Zebo. However, Zebo would need to work on his defensive work himself.

Possible Wolfhounds team this year?

McAllister - Sherry - Archer (?)
Nagle - Browne
Ruddock/Ryan - Henry - Faloon
P. Marshall - Madigan
L. Marshall - Spence
Zebo - Kearney Jr - Gilroy

That was quite a difficult one to pick it must be said! Any other suggestions?

by Chunky Norwich Tue Dec 13, 2011 3:18 am

Isn't this thread about Scarlets v Munster?

by Rory_Gallagher Tue Dec 13, 2011 3:20 am

Chunky Norwich wrote:Isn't this thread about Scarlets v Munster?

And since we are talking about Zebo and his potential, as well as when Earls returns, you would think it was on topic wouldn't you?

Sorry to disturb the topic police!

by ME-109 Tue Dec 13, 2011 3:26 am

BlueMuff wrote:DOD Coughlan was brilliant. First time he played a full match in a while and he has really gained full high intensity match fittness.

If had choice would take Jones back first as we need an out and out FB. However both back together would be even better. We are lacking creativity and both of these players can create something out of nothing. Both have pace that we are lacking at the moment.

As a mid term report and I would say things are progressing nicely. Long way to go in season but we have put ourselves exactly where we would want to be with two away wins.

Yeah, fair enough on Jones. Earls wont be back to the HC side until after christmas by the look of things. He will take one of the centre positions but who to put with him as Mafi had a good game. Thought Zebo did well overall. Seems to be some comments on his defensive positioning but didnt see it myself. Made a couple of good breaks. Am hopeful McGahan will stick with him as he is one of the few players we have who gains ground when he returns with ball in hand.

by Glas a du Tue Dec 13, 2011 4:12 am

Sorry to disturb the topic police!

Do they check that there's enough hazelnuts in every bar?

drumroll

by Guest Tue Dec 13, 2011 6:30 am

Blimey I go away for a couple of days and have to wade through about 5 pages of rubbish!

Twas a poor game, with two rather poor sides, with the Scarlets not playing at the level needed. In past games both Welch and Morgan carried well for us, this they failed to do on Saturday. Our backs looked very nervous whenever they got the ball. Just a disappointing performance all round, we didn't play anywhere near well enough to win, so I can't argue with it at all. A LBP is better then nothing, and well played Munster, you kept it together just that little bit more then we did.

Both sides need a massive improvement though.

by **rodders** Tue Dec 13, 2011 6:34 am

rugbydreamer wrote:Twas a poor game, with two rather poor sides

Both sides need a massive improvement though.

Away tee feck Dreamer! Laugh

Who are you trying to kid??....that was a sh*te result for Scarlets and a feckin brilliant one for Munster! guinness

by Guest Tue Dec 13, 2011 6:37 am

ha come now Rodders it was a poor game, riddled with errors from both sides, some really uninspiring stuff! Obviously not good for the Scarlets, we really needed the win, but like I said, we didn't play well enough.

and of course Munster need to improve, getting the away win or not, when Georgie's back on the weekend, he's just going to trample all over them Wink

by Glas a du Tue Dec 13, 2011 6:45 am

One day though the three point win won't happen. Would losing a QF away satisfy Munster fans?

by Thomond Tue Dec 13, 2011 6:47 am

One day the Scarlets might win something. Or a ref isn't at fault when a Welsh team lose. (that is incredibly far fetched I know)

by **rodders** Tue Dec 13, 2011 6:49 am

Glas a du wrote:One day though the three point win won't happen. Would losing a QF away satisfy Munster fans?

If its away to Ulster it it would satisfy me! Yahoo

by SecretFly Tue Dec 13, 2011 6:51 am

On the evidence of what is now needed from the pool and on the evidence of where Munster are in it...no, I think Munster have done enough - for now. And let's face it, they are a team that does the 'enough for now' better than most.

This isn't the quarters or the semis or the final...it's the journey. Some teams need to put all their cards on the table to have any hope in a pool, and some too, due to lack of savvy or experience, FEEL they have to put all their cards on the table. Munster pace, and pace and then pace themselves some more. And, yes, sometimes that comes perilously close to losing...but that's the rhythm and risks that suit them. I think it was O'Gara who has said that last year Munster made the uncharacteristic mistake of treating all games as equal (Magners and Heineken). You can see how that affected their Magners journey but you can also see how it upset their Heineken challenge. Munster try to learn from mistakes.

by Guest Tue Dec 13, 2011 6:52 am

Thomond wrote:One day the Scarlets might win something. Or a ref isn't at fault when a Welsh team lose. (that is incredibly far fetched I know)

Surely that's not possible.....is it?? Whistle

Scarlets lost this match mentally. 3 points show how close it was, neither side looked like scoring tries all that much, Munster just adapted better to the ref, like they usually do. Don't know when the Scarlets are going to learn how to do it Sad

by Glas a du Tue Dec 13, 2011 6:53 am

Oh that glorious day will be all the sweeter for the fact that not only will the Scarlets have won but the soul of rugby will have been nourished to fight another day.

Laugh

by Guest Tue Dec 13, 2011 7:58 am

Ireland have the best fans as do Munster and Leinster,
sorry correction the Irish are the best at telling you they are the best fans.

Munster have the biggest bandwagon fans who haven't a clue about rugby,
They rate John Hayes for example

by SecretFly Tue Dec 13, 2011 8:21 am

Well, for a start...Irish fans show up............

that may not be 'best' but it's a good beginning Wink

Now, the bandwagon fans who know nothing about rugby. That's a long time enjoying success and knowing nothing about why the success was coming. After more than a decade following a side, maybe those bandwagoners will finally drift away when Munster actually lose more often than they win...I think even for naive fans who know nothing, that should be a clearcut sign.

by maestegmafia Tue Dec 13, 2011 8:22 am

rugbydreamer wrote:
Thomond wrote:One day the Scarlets might win something. Or a ref isn't at fault when a Welsh team lose. (that is incredibly far fetched I know)

Surely that's not possible.....is it??

Scarlets lost this match mentally. 3 points show how close it was, neither side looked like scoring tries all that much, Munster just adapted better to the ref, like they usually do. Don't know when the Scarlets are going to learn how to do it

Not really a surprise that Munster's forwards adapted to the referee quicker than Scarlets, Saints were quicker to it as well. Scarlets have a very inexperienced pack compared with Munster and Saints.

It will come with time. Until then it would be good to keep the ball away from the ruck, as they did against Saints.

by Guest Tue Dec 13, 2011 9:14 am

Leinster only had 500 season ticket holders and average 5k attendance in the 2006-2007 season first year at the RDS by 2009 they had 9'500 season ticket holders!!
Band wagoners the lot of you i tell ya.

Ulster from 1999 up until 2003 had the best Irish region attendance after European success.

Munster avearge 3000-5000 pre 2002-2003 season

Now tell me you lot don't band wagon.

by Rory_Gallagher Tue Dec 13, 2011 9:41 am

viewtothegym wrote:Leinster only had 500 season ticket holders and average 5k attendance in the 2006-2007 season first year at the RDS by 2009 they had 9'500 season ticket holders!!
Band wagoners the lot of you i tell ya.

Ulster from 1999 up until 2003 had the best Irish region attendance after European success.

Munster avearge 3000-5000 pre 2002-2003 season

Now tell me you lot don't band wagon.

You are quite a poor wum my friend.. above one of your fellow supporters did blame the ref for poor attendances in the welsh regions, so I don't think you should make this argument thumbsup

Basically you have answered your own question.. as the game of rugby has got more popular, more and more fans attend the games. Gold star for you!

by Guest Tue Dec 13, 2011 10:06 am

Only after the Irish teams won something so hardly loyal

by Rory_Gallagher Tue Dec 13, 2011 10:09 am

viewtothegym wrote:Only after the Irish teams won something so hardly loyal

Well winning silverware tends to make the team more popular.. and brings more fans and people to the game if they know their local team is succeeding. Doesn't take a genius to figure out.. so I'm not surprised you haven't thumbsup

by Glas a du Tue Dec 13, 2011 3:36 pm

You are quite a poor wum my friend.. above one of your fellow supporters did blame the ref for poor attendances in the welsh regions, so I don't think you should make this argument

And...

Who are you to say that this is incorrect? Have you secretly conducted market research? My evidence is anecdotal granted, but at least it exists.

You should remember the future of the Irish provincial model depends on the Welsh regions staying in business. Now I don't think that you are a mover or shaker, but I hope for your sake that those who are pay a little more attention to what's actually going on over here.

by Thomond Tue Dec 13, 2011 6:52 pm

The bandwagons have been an important part of the growth of Irish Rugby. Nobody would dispute that. I think the important thing is that we have in general gotten fans to stick around after a team's success i.e. Munster still pull 20,000+ for HC games and between 10,000-15,000 for Rabo games.

by Glas a du Tue Dec 13, 2011 6:55 pm

That's right. Good grief if you won and didn't get band wagoners people would slate you for that! To get more fans you can go for a bigger share of the pie, or increase the size of the pie. The latter has been the case and relies on the old band wagon. Who cares?

by geoff998rugby Tue Dec 13, 2011 8:22 pm

A couple of facts:

Munster were successful before their crowds grew so not people jumping on the bandwagon there.

As for Ulster we have won nothing for 5 years or so but are still quite likely to be the 3rd best supported team in the Rabo12 - how is that a bandwagon

Can't speak for the Ladyboys though Laugh

by Glas a du Tue Dec 13, 2011 8:25 pm

Living off the success of the others?

Run

by munkian Tue Dec 13, 2011 8:27 pm

My leinster friends say ALOT of people go to the Leinster matches just to be seen there. You could spot them in the Bath crowd - the ones not cheering or looking like they know whats going on #D4HEADS Very Happy

You'd expect people like that at International matches but strange at club games.

by **rodders** Tue Dec 13, 2011 8:28 pm

geoff998rugby wrote:
As for Ulster we have won nothing for 5 years or so but are still quite likely to be the 3rd best supported team in the Rabo12 - how is that a bandwagon

Speak for yourself Geoff I'm still riding the 1999 bandwagon...... Whistle

by Glas a du Tue Dec 13, 2011 8:30 pm

They think they are Ireland. Ulster are Brits, Munster are Culchies and Connacht are a social side.

Whistle

(this means I'm joking ok? thumbsup

)

by BlueMuff Tue Dec 13, 2011 9:50 pm

viewtothegym wrote:

Munster have the biggest bandwagon fans who haven't a clue about rugby,
They rate John Hayes for example

I love it when these little twisted posters appear.

Munster had around 3 or 4 thousand supporters in Park Y Scarlets on Sat. It looked even more than that almost half and half.

Are these all bandwagon supporters turning up to watch a team in decline / transition with no hope of winning.

by Guest Tue Dec 13, 2011 9:52 pm

Blue Muff, no way you had 4K supporters there, 3K at most my friend. Was so nice to see so much away support at Y Parc though for a change, made for a really good atmosphere

by red_stag Tue Dec 13, 2011 9:54 pm

There looked a fair few to me dreamer. Id be surprised if only 3k v 10k Klingons

by Guest Tue Dec 13, 2011 9:58 pm

Maybe, from where I was stood, I could see the large pockets of you guys in the South and West stands. Not sure how many there were in the North. I'd be surprised if there had been that much more than 3K though. And your blydi flags always make it look like there's more of you then there really is!

(and less of the Klingon nonsense please Wink

)

by red_stag Tue Dec 13, 2011 10:01 pm

I cant speak any Klingon Diolch very much

Also Glas' pal Subsbench was heard to remark how it was.more like an away match than home match for him

by Guest Tue Dec 13, 2011 10:03 pm

Ha, that couldn't possibly have been because he was sat in amongst the away support section, no? Wink

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