Degale: A Manifestation of Ego and Denial?

He doesn't know where he is at in terms of ability. He is brash and far too out spoken. He seems to hold himself in higher regard than contender or prospect. He seems to believe that gold at the Olympics brought with it the right to speak as though he is above the level of opposition he now faces. He disregards his own promoter, talks over him in interviews and tries to dictate his own terms of activity. His excuses are like bottoms, everyone has one.

He seems to think he is the gift but doesn't understand that part of boxing and another type of gift is ring smarts. He has no plan B but talks like he doesn't need one. He cannot KO an opponent, he cannot unlock an opponent, he cannot force an opponent to fight his fight. He has a complete lack of patience and feels being on Sky and big bills is his divine right. He is completely disillusioned and feels that he is the savior of British boxing. He has a coach that is limited but believes his talent is enough as long as he has yes men around him. He is cocky and classless and seems a bit stupid. In twelve months he wants to call himself a champion but doesn't realize what one is. He doesn't understand or see the bigger picture. He thinks grooming is for dogs. Degale shows no willingness to sell his attractive style in America. He thinks under cards are for fat hags and sees no point in being humble.

Is this positive for boxing or a manifestation of what is wrong in the sport? The casual fan wants none of Degale, the casual fan wants him gone. After Audley they are especially suspicious, yet this is the type of man that is at the forefront, the heart of British boxing.

Slow train a comin' Degale. Learn those skills, learn how to walk...

You're not a fan are you? Have no real issue with the ego, will admit it leaves me cold as he has neither the wit or charm to really do it with any aplomb, just comes across as graceless, but he wouldn't be the first to display similar traits.

What concerns me more with him is the denial, remember reading interviews post Groves and all I heard was how he was robbed (he wasn't) and deserved the nod etc, there was no acknowledgement he had lacked adaptability or had been largely out thought by Groves for large portions of the fight. Others have argued this is all front and behind closed doors it will be different and I truly hope this is the case but I remain unconvinced. Like you I see indications in his interviews which suggest he is far too self absorbed so show such humility or self examination.

Jesus someone isn't a Degale fan. Talent wise I think he is fine, there doesn't seem to be too much wrong with him, he needs to slow down and have 4 or 5 fights at euro level in my opinion and learn a few things before making the step up in my opinion, take another year or so and learn your craft, he should take a few pointers from his nemesis Groves in that respect.

Degale is a Euro level fighter. Put him in with Froch, Kessler, Ward, Bute, Johnson etc he'd get ripped apart.

In 5/6 years time, if he gets some power from somewhere then he'll be among the title holders, but right now?

He's nothing above Euro. Warren is feeding him bullplop.

Not the most balanced evaluation of DeGale I've seen Davide, I have to say!

But I agree, DeGale has shown a shocking attitude at times in the past. I know others have picked up on this point, but one particular aspect which stands out to me is how often I've heard him say that he's 'told' McDonnell to do this and that in training, or 'told' him how he's going to fight his next opponent. A fighter shouldn't be 'telling' his trainer anything of the sort, really. The two of them do seem to be a little too matey at times for my liking. Nothing wrong with being friends with and close to your trainer at all, but if it's getting to the stage where your trainer lets you dictate to him and basically doesn't have the nads to show he's the boss, it becomes a problem.

But - and it's a valid but - I still believe that DeGale can learn from his errors so far. In fairness, he has acknowledged that his carry on leading up to the Groves fight was unacceptable and that he needs to show more respect in future. Based on his last performance - where he did show a fair bit of grit, like it or not - he acknowledged that he has things to work on and learn. Everyone deserves a second chance as they say. The early indications are that he's getting his head down and working to eradicate his shortcomings, though of course we won't know whether or not he's done this until a little further down the line.

I'm not a fan of him at all, but even I'm willing to wait until I pass a full judgement on him. The bloke does come across as being as thick as a brick at times, but he's hardly alone in that sense. If he gets his head down and sticks to his word of being a little more respectful and circumspect, I still think he can be a figure at the right end of the 168 lb division.

I don't really see what Warren is doing wrong in this situation JabMachine... Care to elaborate?

Great points guys. Chris i agree, the word 'told' is just another sign of this man's unflappable ego. He can compete at 168, but for now he needs to do so quietly, have people take an interest in his record as it grows. Sadly, he shouts from the rooftops and gives off all this bravado that is disgusting to listen to. He isn't there yet, this seems the general consensus.

Rowley so true, denial, utter denial. I guess when you are young and fat like he was, and people think all your talk is just that, denial of those naysayers can get you somewhere. But, when you are in the pro ranks and competing at a high level you have to listen to what everyone who has insight is saying. And everyone seems agreed that this man is flawed, Groves exposed it once, something Degale will not admit, and something that just makes him look sore and bitter.

He's what, 26? He isn't that young, he needs to progress in the next two years at a realistic pace, these are his grooming years. His body will be prime by 27-28, but will his mind? I think not. Sadly.

Warren, through experience (not personal, but I do know a couple of people he's promoted previously) has a habit of promising his prospects things that they want to hear to sign contracts and get in the ring. Warren has done this for a while, and puts people against low level opposition, pays them what he deems as fair, and then tells his fighters they're going to be big. After Paul Smith, before the Groves fight, Warren was sowing the seeds in the boxing world that within the next 3 years Degale would be a World champion. Degale genuinely believed that because of the way Warren spoke about the Paul Smith fight, that this would become a reality. He then viewed Groves as a stepping stone, and we all know how that turned out.

Warren will make a man moderately wealthy (in boxing terms) tell you that you're a champion emeritus, put you against low level opposition and tell you its world class.

He's a clever man, but look at what people say about him when they do break away from his bull.

Jabmachine, good point. But how is this relevant to the article and what people are saying? How does this impact Degale? Is Warren doing this with him? Is Warren responsible for the petty little Chunky boy?

Not clear on your angle here, is Warren just a turd,in your opinion?

Warren isn't a turd, he's a very astute businessman, and if you stick with him, you'll look like a world champion to the general public but be grumbled about in boxing circles. Warren is viewed in the gyms I've been to as somewhat "Marmite"

Personally I don't mind the guy, he comes across as a bit cutthroat but that's no biggie. I'll never get his interest cos I don't particularly want to go pro.

What I mean is he talks to his fighters as if they're World Champions, he puts them against people who they'll beat easily and brainwashes them into thinking they're fighting world level opponents. It boosts their egos. Degales was nearing silly levels anyway after Paul Smith. Imagine the man who gets you fights and pays you money then tells you you're the best he's seen since Calzaghe and that he's going to make you a world champion within 2/3 years.

Imagine what that'll do to your ego. Hence his conduct coming up to the Groves fight.

Good pints jabmachine, and for a thicky like Chunky this only serves his ego. He looks to be peddling backwards now though, in interviews he looks embarrassed when Degale speaks. Probably hoping to make some money out of him.

I thinK Frank realises that Degale won't be a Champion for at least 5 years, and is looking at ways to keep him interesting to the British public.

JabMachine wrote:Warren, through experience (not personal, but I do know a couple of people he's promoted previously) has a habit of promising his prospects things that they want to hear to sign contracts and get in the ring. Warren has done this for a while, and puts people against low level opposition, pays them what he deems as fair, and then tells his fighters they're going to be big. After Paul Smith, before the Groves fight, Warren was sowing the seeds in the boxing world that within the next 3 years Degale would be a World champion. Degale genuinely believed that because of the way Warren spoke about the Paul Smith fight, that this would become a reality. He then viewed Groves as a stepping stone, and we all know how that turned out.

Warren will make a man moderately wealthy (in boxing terms) tell you that you're a champion emeritus, put you against low level opposition and tell you its world class.

He's a clever man, but look at what people say about him when they do break away from his bull.

I understand what you're saying, and I agree that Warren isn't a particularly nice guy, but to be fair you won't get very far in boxing playing the nice guy promoter.

But I don't understand in this particular instance with Degale what he has done wrong, he has matched Degale well, his last 3 opponents in particular have been very testing indeed, couldn't ask much more from Warren in terms of the match making that he has done with him thus far.

True but he wants to throw him back in with Groves this year, and the press and general fan want Groves to win. Plus, Groves can win this fight and if he does where does that leave Degale? He has shown no improvement since then, in talk, in attitude, in ring skills. He got whacked around in his last fight and Groves can bang. Part of me thinks Warren is trying to cash in on a fighter who wont go the distance, who possibly, he doesn't care to see go the distance either... burn out or fade away?

But... on the flip side he is European champion very early in his career. He could campaign there for a year and hone and harness. But James wont will he? He will gob off and demand world fights long before he is ready. Sadly.

James will only gob off because thats what he told he deserves. Depends who you're dealing with. If Warren tries this with Groves he'll be told by Booth that he's not ready and to stop filling his head with silly ideas. He tells Degale this and suddenly Degale is Billy Big-Balls.

I'm not saying Warren is doing anything wrong - he's just creating these walls Degale is breaking through and telling Degale they're made of stone when in reality, he's ripping through paper, and when a stone wall does appear in the form of the title fight Degale thinks he deserves - it'll all be happily promoted by a happy Frank Warren, who realises his kid has hit his limit, will lose, and take the money win lose or draw, its Degale who's left on the heap. It happens more often than you realise. Just depends where the wall is. Its Degales fault for buying into Warrens sales pitch.

It depends on how fast it happens, I believe that Degale can most certainly provide a decent challenge to any of the world champions of right now, although cannot see him winning... In a year or two who knows how much he will have improved with the right kind of opposition in front of him.

Alex, usually you're so right but you honestly and truly believe Degale could stand anywhere near Froch, Ward, Bute, Kessler, Johnson, Dirrell and not get stopped within 2 rounds?

Any of them would tear him apart. He's a lanky fighter with a decent jab, his punch power is rather limited and to be honest he does have some slick skills but he'd get taken apart by the above on sheer bravado. They'd walk through his punches and spark him out of the ring. It'd be a massacre.

davidemore wrote:He doesn't know where he is at in terms of ability. He is brash and far too out spoken. He seems to hold himself in higher regard than contender or prospect. He seems to believe that gold at the Olympics brought with it the right to speak as though he is above the level of opposition he now faces. He disregards his own promoter, talks over him in interviews and tries to dictate his own terms of activity. His excuses are like bottoms, everyone has one.

He seems to think he is the gift but doesn't understand that part of boxing and another type of gift is ring smarts. He has no plan B but talks like he doesn't need one. He cannot KO an opponent, he cannot unlock an opponent, he cannot force an opponent to fight his fight. He has a complete lack of patience and feels being on Sky and big bills is his divine right. He is completely disillusioned and feels that he is the savior of British boxing. He has a coach that is limited but believes his talent is enough as long as he has yes men around him. He is cocky and classless and seems a bit stupid. In twelve months he wants to call himself a champion but doesn't realize what one is. He doesn't understand or see the bigger picture. He thinks grooming is for dogs. Degale shows no willingness to sell his attractive style in America. He thinks under cards are for fat hags and sees no point in being humble.

Is this positive for boxing or a manifestation of what is wrong in the sport? The casual fan wants none of Degale, the casual fan wants him gone. After Audley they are especially suspicious, yet this is the type of man that is at the forefront, the heart of British boxing.

Slow train a comin' Degale. Learn those skills, learn how to walk...

#

Pretty much agree with all of this, Degale is 80% hype, 20% talent. European level at best.

I dont really think you can pin the blame for Degales ego on Warren. He already had a big ego before Warren got him, its just his personality. He appears to be mentally quite fragile and probably needs people around him telling him how great he is in order to function and remain confident.

Thanks Hogey, and got to agree with Jab Machine. If Degale went in with any of the top 5 Super Middles he would get completely spanked. Utterly destroyed. Pancaked within 4 rounds. He is only just about at European level at the minute. The guy has serious limitations to deal with, the frustrating thing is he has the talent to deal with them but not the patience. Warren would be happy to slow him down i think, but Degale doesn't want it. The best bled British fighter at the minute is Kell Brook for me, coming along very nicely, developing very well. Good exposure building too, impressive by Hearn.

Will be interesting to see who is next for Brook, they have booked the Sheffield Arena for him which is a 12,000 seat venue so you have to think they need someone half decent if they are going to stand a chance of coming close to filling that.

And I'm sparring with Brook in early February.

.............

Not looking forward to it. I mean I am, it'll be nice to box someone of his class - but I think he'll pull me apart. Its only 6 rounds, I'm in with someone else, a bit stockier than me, and we're switching - I think his opponent might be a counter puncher with a hard fast jab, just by his sparring partner selection (I'm one of 5 he'll be using in the build up)

Certainly Rowley and i feel they will find someone decent. A fringe world level fighter, or someone who has in the past operated at that level. Zaveck is a real possibility and a win would set up a big fight with Mike Jones. So much out there for Brook and i feel it is going to happen for him this year in a big way. Mosley to trot over the pond for a pay day? Probably not.

Malignaggi or Judah would be a decent shout for Brook. Wouldnt be surprised to see either of those guys up next for him.

JabMachine wrote:Alex, usually you're so right but you honestly and truly believe Degale could stand anywhere near Froch, Ward, Bute, Kessler, Johnson, Dirrell and not get stopped within 2 rounds?

Any of them would tear him apart. He's a lanky fighter with a decent jab, his punch power is rather limited and to be honest he does have some slick skills but he'd get taken apart by the above on sheer bravado. They'd walk through his punches and spark him out of the ring. It'd be a massacre.

Actually, yes, I think he could provide a decent showing against most of them. Think you are underestimating Degale and overestimating the likes of Kessler. Kesslers last opponent was a Euro level opponent and I would rank degale as slightly above that, it took him 6 rounds to defeat him and had a couple of struggles along the way, I would vouch that Degale has a good enough chin and good enough speed to pose problems. Not saying he would win and not saying him being knocked out late isn't on the cards but saying that he would provide a good test to them and not just be blown away.

Have heard Mosley's name mooted Davide, not sure how I feel about that as I don't think he has anything left at this stage, but names sell and guess if he can look more impressive than either Manny or Floyd in beating him or stop him (unlikely) guess it would cause the odd ripple.

Paulie and Judah are also good shouts for Brook, although Judah is a little small for the weight.

Degale would get blasted because he would come in against the top Super Middles cocky and open and showmen like. At least Kesslers last opponent had the sense to cover up for a few rounds. Degale wouldn't, he would be dusted by Kessler in 4 rounds.

Me too Rowley, Mosely is very shot and it is time for him to retire, but in boxing they rarely know when aye. If he fought him it be good as a name builder, but sad as i like Shane and don't want to see him go into RJJ territory, although a couple more fights and he could well head that way.

manos de piedra wrote:Malignaggi or Judah would be a decent shout for Brook. Wouldnt be surprised to see either of those guys up next for him.

Would agree, don't think that Judah is going to fight at WW again however unless it's for a straight title shot, then again the IBF Welterweight title is vacant. Malignaggi would be a decent shout, wouldn't get me overly excited but would be good seeing how Brook handles someone with good speed until he would most surely get firmly ontop during the middle rounds.

Malignaggi would be decent, I suppose, as would Judah. Would prefer either of those two to Mosley I have to say. I take no pleasure in seeing a fighter once as superb as Mosley being served up as cannon fodder for an up and comer, even if it's a British one.

Were it down to me, I'd be looking at either Senchenko or the winner of Berto-Ortiz II. Genuinely believe that Brook beats them both, he's that good. I suppose Senchenko would be the more sensible option, mind you. The fight with Jones would, of course, be fantastic, but realistically the two are more likely to circle around each other until they are both champions (if Jones can stay at 147 lb, that is).

Alex, Degale hasn't fought anyone above Domestic. His Euro opponent wasn't as good as Degale was told, despite how he's been built up. He hadn't defended his title before so he's not a real champion (this could be debated, but I believe a champion proves himself by defending it at least once/twice)

If Degale defends his title a couple of times against genuine world level door knockers and goes on to World level and does well then I'll eat my words. But at the moment because he's a bit....lets say ambitious, he's trying to fast track himself, and Warren for some reason isn't putting the brakes on. He may in private, but so far from what I've seen he's trying to appease Degales thirst for big fights and importance.

Oooh, my friend has just text me and claims he's heard something about Amir Khan being a potential opponent. He's usually wrong though!

JabMachine wrote:Alex, Degale hasn't fought anyone above Domestic. His Euro opponent wasn't as good as Degale was told, despite how he's been built up. He hadn't defended his title before so he's not a real champion (this could be debated, but I believe a champion proves himself by defending it at least once/twice)

If Degale defends his title a couple of times against genuine world level door knockers and goes on to World level and does well then I'll eat my words. But at the moment because he's a bit....lets say ambitious, he's trying to fast track himself, and Warren for some reason isn't putting the brakes on. He may in private, but so far from what I've seen he's trying to appease Degales thirst for big fights and importance.

For me Degale is most certainly good enough to move onto the world stage, I think where he will fail is at the very elite level, Ward would be too much for him at any stage I would wager. I suppose this is where we just disagree, for me Degale is a 12 fight pro already fighting and beating genuine euro level opponents and in 5 or 6 fights I believe he will be world class and at this moment in time can challenge some of the big boys, but that's just my opinion.

For British Boxing Alex, I hope you're right.

I can't see it though. His ego is out of control.

http://www.boxingscene.com/degale-i-want-world-title-fight-by-olympics--44999

Oh, but there is no denyign, he seems to go out of his way to act like a clown.

"Your breath smells"

Insult of the year.

AlexHuckerby wrote:Oh, but there is no denyign, he seems to go out of his way to act like a clown.

"Your breath smells"

Insult of the year.

I prefered you're ugly and ginger but each to their own.

rowley wrote:

AlexHuckerby wrote:Oh, but there is no denyign, he seems to go out of his way to act like a clown.

"Your breath smells"

Insult of the year.

I prefered you're ugly and ginger but each to their own.

You're gassed, Rowley. Gassed bruv.

88Chris05 wrote:

rowley wrote:

AlexHuckerby wrote:Oh, but there is no denyign, he seems to go out of his way to act like a clown.

"Your breath smells"

Insult of the year.

I prefered you're ugly and ginger but each to their own.

You're gassed, Rowley. Gassed bruv.

I don't even know what that means. And I'm from da hood.

Heaven forbid that we have a boxer who has an ego the size of a small planet. I wish all boxers were humble and helped grannies across the road on sundays after giving speaches to their local boys scout camp.

The fact that you are talking about him means all his trash talking is working. You will show an interest in his next fight and probably buy boxnation to watch him lose.

Well done DeGale.

The Degale hype seems to work though in fairness to Frank Warren, i mean here we have a bloke who best wins were against an overated blown up middleweight who was destroyed in a few minutes by Groves and a plodding Pole who has been soundly beaten by even the moderately good fighters he has faced yet still managed to give Degale a real war, but still we hear how he is good enough to take on the Kessler's of this sport and fight on the world stage. Why do people accept this baseless and frankly very unlikely premise, i will tell you why its because Uncle Frank has told you its true so many times that you ignore the evidence and swallow the hype.

Degale is a proper tool. His trash talking hasn't got more people tuned in to see him lose as his show had to be cancelled recently because no-one was interested. Backfired big time 'bruv'.

azania wrote:The fact that you are talking about him means all his trash talking is working

I thought that owed more to this being a forum where boxing and boxers are discussed, but ah well, there you go.

88Chris05 wrote:

azania wrote:The fact that you are talking about him means all his trash talking is working

I thought that owed more to this being a forum where boxing and boxers are discussed, but ah well, there you go.

You do have a point

But the general gist is him shouting from the rooftops to get noticed and heard. Love him or hate him, but pay to watch him is his motive. The sad thing is that he lacks the wit, charm, charisma and intelligence to do it properly.

Audley could sell a fight. That muppet could sell prayer mats to arabs in the middle of ramadan.

To be fair Audley didn't really trash talk all that much, just talked about what could happen when he lands that big left hand.

Yes Audley something could happen, you might have to throw it first!!

Degale has very little interest from the general public due to his conduct post-Groves.

People are so annoyed by Degale that they actually don't want to see him in another big British fight. I talk to the casual fan and they want none of Degale, i ask why and they say... 'because he is a tw**' or words to that affect.

Its nonsense to brush of his world champion chances, given his positive start to a pro carer and with so many tools in his locker..

No one has given him credit for his last 3 fights being against very competitive opposition given the amount of fights he has had.. British champ in his home town with Smith, Other highly rated starlet with Groves, and a well groomed experienced and confident Euro champ in his last fight.

He beat Smith easy, The euro fight was a tough fight but he won, and the Groves fight could have gone either way (I had Degale by two rounds) ...

However I still have a question mark about JM his trainer... Degale is as fit as a fiddle but I don't know if he has a good tactician in his corner, and with the style Degale uses it should be his main strength.

The Galveston Giant wrote:Degale is a proper tool. His trash talking hasn't got more people tuned in to see him lose as his show had to be cancelled recently because no-one was interested. Backfired big time 'bruv'.

Was that not also down to Groves pulling out? as it was meant to be a double headline as neither fighter is big enough to sell places out on their own...

I can't help but think Degale is an accident waiting to happen and unless it's just that he isn't able to get himself motivated for the level of fighter he is being matched with.

He takes too many punches, seems to take them well but he hasn't really been in with anyone with power.

I feel he has a much higher opinion of his ability than he has shown.