The Wales vs England bickering thread, 2012 - PONIES ALLOWED!

[TycroesOsprey]

OK, every year we see threads that actually contain really good rugby discussion derailed by the ongoing Wales vs England bickering and WUMMING! I will name no names. I guess we have all been guilty .

Since most of the general bickering comes from the respective fans of Wales and England ; I thought I would create a thread for it in an effort to keep decent rugby discussion relatively WUM free in other threads.

So I will begin, An article in the Western Mail today pointed out how England are copying Gatlands youthful approach with a squad that has an average age of 25 and 428 caps between them.

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/rugbynation/rugby-news/2012/01/12/analysis-new-look-england-follow-youthful-wales-lead-91466-30105333/

Wales probable squad (once you have taken out Shane and Wellies from the World cup squad with their probable replacements) lines up at the same average age and about 820 caps between them. England are copying Wales' approcach but are way behind. Clearly all things point to a wales victory in HQ this year.

Discuss

post script

Please may I emphasise that this is a bickering and banter thread, whilst mild wumming and banter are allowed please try not to stray over the line of decency.

[bedfordwelsh]

Tycroes,

You said it all, we will win but then again of course it won't matter as it will have been classed as a de-valued championship by then because England are in re-build mode

[TycroesOsprey]

[Effervescing Elephant]

If you do win we'll get the 'moral' victory for some reason i'm sure. I just haven't thought of one yet!

[TycroesOsprey]

Some reasons for England fans to dismiss their upcoming losses.

Its a young squad,
were building for the future,
Who could have guessed Manu would get drunk, dive off Richmond Bridge two days before the game?
The ref had a welsh grandmother,
His foot was definitely not in touch the tmo got it wrong.
Sir Clive would have won it for us.
All our outside halfs are injured.
If only Ashton hadnt dropped the ball swallow diving.

[miteyironpaw]

Welsh Post Match Loss Reaction Script
=============================

Well, we never wanted or expected the win today. We were happy to make progress and put in a good display. We ticked those boxes and are progressing nicely, so we're very happy. The outcome of [tournament] is largely irrelevant this year in light of [next year's tournament].

I didn't think we got the rub of the green today and it's always hard to put in a consistent 80 minutes this early/this late [pick one] in the season. Although in the periods where we fired, we certainly looked the better team.

Once those out with injuries return and those just returning come up to match fitness, then we know on the strength of today's performance that on our day, we can beat anyone in the world.

Post Tournament Loss Reaction Script
=============================

Although the outcome of this tournament is largely irrelevant this year, we're disappointed not to have won it of course.

We certainly play to win, and we know we have the squad of players, and that on our day we can beat anyone in the world.

I think in the future, we have to look at the draw which certainly favours [team who won].

We're more interested in the world rankings at this stage as we build for [distant tournament], and if you think that we beat [Ireland in the world cup, who beat Australia, who are the tri-nations champions beating New Zealand who are the world champions][substitute this line for the shortest chain of A->B results showing Wales as world champions], then it's easy to see that we really are close, if not top of the world at the moment. It's a matter of backing that up with 80 minute performances on the day and not getting on the wrong side of the scoreboard.

All in all we're very happy with where we are and look forward to playing England next year.

[Effervescing Elephant]

Tycroes, Hersh has just come up with another one on his thread. Back to back away fixtures for England. Scotland then Italy so i call jet lag!

[englandglory4ever]

Oh I see the Welshmen are getting over confident again. Nothing like an arrogant Welshman to get things off on the wrong foot is there? I'm keeping fingers and toes crossed this post comes back to bite them. After-all they ain't all that are they? They lost a shedfull of games in the last RWC.

[majesticimperialman]

England have shed a lot of the old guard since the Rugby World Cup and brought in alot of younger players, but to say Wales have a better team than England is, well a joke realy.

If you want proof of this look at the World Rankins, and you will find that Wales are below England. enough said.

[beshocked]

Post match comments from Gatland after Wales lose to England:

"
Wales were the better side throughout the full 80 but let England have too many easy points.

Wales were the better side when it was XV vs XV unfortunately we were undone by that controversial sin binning.

Can't understand the ref's decision to sin bin Warburton. Warburton's a good bloke who doesn't mean any harm.

England's two tries during that 10 minute period decided the game. It was painful to watch but credit to the boys for not conceding anymore.

The performance was excellent but Twickenham is a tough place to go. I am very happy with the boys and expect them to continue to improve.

On a different day we would have beaten England convincingly but unfortunately we didn't get the rub of the green. The ball was against us, the ref was against us, even Ashton didn't swan dive which disappointed us. Well onto next week."

[Shifty]

Morally speaking I'm all in favour of provoking the English posters come the 6 Nations, but we shouldn't get ahead of ourselves, lets at least have a pop at the Irish first, after all they are our first game.

[Gatts]

Morally speaking I'm all in favour of provoking the English posters come the 6 Nations, but we shouldn't get ahead of ourselves, lets at least have a pop at the Irish first, after all they are our first game.

Would love to but they are all busy in the potato fields

[TycroesOsprey]

HOnestly Alyn it is an attempt to keep the bickering that normally infects the other threads confined to one place. Call it the Naughty corner if you will.

[Woodstock]

Oh I see the Welshmen are getting over confident again. Nothing like an arrogant Welshman to get things off on the wrong foot is there? I'm keeping fingers and toes crossed this post comes back to bite them. After-all they ain't all that are they? They lost a shedfull of games in the last RWC.

Oooooooooooooooooohhhh how biting and nasty of this horrible englishman hahaha Bless you for posting, your opinion is so important to us...honest

england just another little country in Europe, not much to go bonkers about.

[Breadvan]

Morally speaking I'm all in favour of provoking the English posters come the 6 Nations, but we shouldn't get ahead of ourselves, lets at least have a pop at the Irish first, after all they are our first game.

Yeh exactly. Eng and Wales bickering is so like 3 years ago. Your "celt" brothers across the Irish sea are the new bullies given the recent history in 6N games between yous...

[Alex_Germany]

Morally speaking I'm all in favour of provoking the English posters come the 6 Nations, but we shouldn't get ahead of ourselves, lets at least have a pop at the Irish first, after all they are our first game.

Can you lend them a fiver while you're at it. One with 9 zeros after it.

[maestegmafia]

England have shed a lot of the old guard since the Rugby World Cup and brought in alot of younger players, but to say Wales have a better team than England is, well a joke realy.

If you want proof of this look at the World Rankings, and you will find that Wales are below England. enough said.

Surely you shed the old guard, Wilkinson, Moody, Easter, Tindall, Cueto, Sheridan, Thompson, The players that got you to those rankings, then the Rankings are not a reflection of the team that England are about to put out?

You cant call on the former and the future as an example if neither exist....!

You could say that you thought that the old Guard had a better ranking, but the new Guard are even better players and you expect good things?

[bluestonevedder]

Just got into work and all this handbags is making for a very enjoyable day!

[Taffineastbourne]

As I look into my crystal ball I can hear Jonny Wilkinson getting more mentions in commentary than either 10 actually playing on the day.

[bedfordwelsh]

Taff,

You're not wrong especially as InverDull will be in studio.

[maestegmafia]

Why do the BBC insist on employing men of the calibre of Inverdale, Steve Ryder, Nigel Stammer-Smith.

Bring back Des Lynam, the man set the central commentary role bar very high in his day.

[Equo Troiano]

Why do the BBC insist on employing men of the calibre of Inverdale, Steve Ryder, Nigel Stammer-Smith.

Gosh and you wrote that without even a hint of irony.

[HERSH]

Is there a 'France vs England bickering thread, 2012'?

After all thats the one that really matters as its the one that will decide the Championship.

[bedfordwelsh]

Is there a 'France vs England bickering thread, 2012'?

After all thats the one that really matters as its the one that will decide the Championship.

One of your better comments Hersh I like.

[miteyironpaw]

Careful with the use of that word "Championship" HERSH. You'll be sued by a southern hemisphere rugby union for trademark infringement.

[Breadvan]

If farrell plays 10 and has a stormer then I expect him to become Inverdales golden boy. I would like to hear a collective nationwide ironic cheer the first time he mentions JW tho...

[bedfordwelsh]

Bread,

You would get odds it will be inside first 5 minutes.

[miteyironpaw]

There will surely be a JW career memorial service in the build up to the 6N kick off.

[Equo Troiano]

Why take the mick?

Wilkinson was the best 10 in the world for quite a few years, and probably the best England have ever had. He will obviously and rightly be missed. It is only natural that whoever is presenting the 6N coverage would refer to Wilkinson and whether his successors will be able to emulate his achievements.

[miteyironpaw]

Exactly Equo. Who was taking the Mick? We haven't had nearly enough televised testimonal services to his talent in my mind. In fact if we could organise a national holiday similar to last years royal wedding I'd be all in favour.

[HERSH]

How many forward passes or quick lineouts will Wales get away with this 6 nations?

IMO without Shane Wales will lack that spark, but at least we won't have to see anymore over the top try celebrations.

[Equo Troiano]

Exactly Equo. Who was taking the Mick? We haven't had nearly enough televised testimonal services to his talent in my mind. In fact if we could organise a national holiday similar to last years royal wedding I'd be all in favour.

Its good to see you are giving him the respect he deserves.

[bedfordwelsh]

at least we won't have to see anymore over the top try celebrations.

Why don't you expect Ashton to score many Hersh?

[HERSH]

Forward roll!

C'mon

[beshocked]

Owen Farrell is similar to Jonny Wilkinson in a quite a few ways so it's hardly surprising there will be comparisons. Both are relatively shy. Both have good mental strength. Both are known for their defence - putting in big hits. Both are excellent tactical and place kickers. Also both seem to struggle to get a backline moving.

Obviously Farrell is nowhere near Wilkinson's level or status yet but he's on the path.

I think Farrell would rather be compared to Wilkinson than Flood!

[HERSH]

Happy New Year to the Gwaun Valley

[WELL-PAST-IT]

Exactly Equo. Who was taking the Mick?

The Welsh again, obviously. Someone should tell them to stop being derogatory to the Irish and leave them in Ireland; don't take them anywhere.

[Comfort]

Welsh Post Match Loss Reaction Script
=============================

Well, we never wanted or expected the win today. We were happy to make progress and put in a good display. We ticked those boxes and are progressing nicely, so we're very happy. The outcome of [tournament] is largely irrelevant this year in light of [next year's tournament].

I didn't think we got the rub of the green today and it's always hard to put in a consistent 80 minutes this early/this late [pick one] in the season. Although in the periods where we fired, we certainly looked the better team.

Once those out with injuries return and those just returning come up to match fitness, then we know on the strength of today's performance that on our day, we can beat anyone in the world.

Post Tournament Loss Reaction Script
=============================

Although the outcome of this tournament is largely irrelevant this year, we're disappointed not to have won it of course.

We certainly play to win, and we know we have the squad of players, and that on our day we can beat anyone in the world.

I think in the future, we have to look at the draw which certainly favours [team who won].

We're more interested in the world rankings at this stage as we build for [distant tournament], and if you think that we beat [Ireland in the world cup, who beat Australia, who are the tri-nations champions beating New Zealand who are the world champions][substitute this line for the shortest chain of A->B results showing Wales as world champions], then it's easy to see that we really are close, if not top of the world at the moment. It's a matter of backing that up with 80 minute performances on the day and not getting on the wrong side of the scoreboard.

All in all we're very happy with where we are and look forward to playing England next year.

how did you get your hands on Sean Holleys post-match scripts?

[wales606]

Welsh Post Match Loss Reaction Script
=============================

Well, we never wanted or expected the win today. We were happy to make progress and put in a good display. We ticked those boxes and are progressing nicely, so we're very happy. The outcome of [tournament] is largely irrelevant this year in light of [next year's tournament].

I didn't think we got the rub of the green today and it's always hard to put in a consistent 80 minutes this early/this late [pick one] in the season. Although in the periods where we fired, we certainly looked the better team.

Once those out with injuries return and those just returning come up to match fitness, then we know on the strength of today's performance that on our day, we can beat anyone in the world.

Post Tournament Loss Reaction Script
=============================

Although the outcome of this tournament is largely irrelevant this year, we're disappointed not to have won it of course.

We certainly play to win, and we know we have the squad of players, and that on our day we can beat anyone in the world.

I think in the future, we have to look at the draw which certainly favours [team who won].

We're more interested in the world rankings at this stage as we build for [distant tournament], and if you think that we beat [Ireland in the world cup, who beat Australia, who are the tri-nations champions beating New Zealand who are the world champions][substitute this line for the shortest chain of A->B results showing Wales as world champions], then it's easy to see that we really are close, if not top of the world at the moment. It's a matter of backing that up with 80 minute performances on the day and not getting on the wrong side of the scoreboard.

All in all we're very happy with where we are and look forward to playing England next year.

how did you get your hands on Sean Holleys post-match scripts?

[maestegmafia]

Forward roll!

C'mon

I would say that the only time a player really could be allowed a little respite for an elaborate celebration is after they just scored in the last second of their last ever match in front of a home crowd.

Certainly a far more worthy occasion than any other.

What did you do when you scored your last try in your illustrious professional rugby career HERSH?

[bathmad]

Forward roll!

C'mon

I would say that the only time a player really could be allowed a little respite for an elaborate celebration is after they just scored in the last second of their last ever match in front of a home crowd.

Certainly a far more worthy occasion than any other.

What did you do when you scored your last try in your illustrious professional rugby career HERSH?

Can't speak for Hersh, but I had a heart attack. Front rower runs one in from 50 yards - shock.

[HERSH]

Can't remember, I took more pride in out scrumaging my opposite number and winning my final game.

I'd forgiven Williams if it had won Wales the game, the way he celebrated was out of order.

He was there to boost his ego not to win.

[gregortree]

Tycroes, I'm late to this thread. but this is a cracking idea.
Create a major flack magnet, to clear the way for real rugby threads to operate without the bickering - well we can all hope.

[HERSH]

Just a reminder

2011 final standings

1 England
2 France
3 Ireland
4 Wales
5 Scotland
6 Italy

I see no reason why it will be an different this year.

[miteyironpaw]

A joyous read HERSH, perhaps the RFU could turn it into a short movie.

[bluestonevedder]

A joyous read HERSH, perhaps the RFU could turn it into a short movie.

Even as an Englishman, that is damn funny.

[NeverMySoul]

I've been listening to Gatland now for a few years and I think Wales no how to win matches. If they do these they should win:

Be clinical,
Be accurate.
Play well for the first twenty minutes,
Play well for the last twenty minutes,
Play well for the middle forty minutes.
Play what’s in front of them,
Play what’s behind them,
Play what’s beside them.
Be disciplined.
Replicate the squad ethic that was there in the week.
Front up.
Execute (Courtney Lawes?)
Earn the right to go wide.
Win the contact.
Play in the right areas.
Take the sting out of the game (Remove any London Wasps players?)
Come away with points every time.
Play the percentages.
Kick well,
Run well,
Tackle well,
Not be in any way like Hugo Southwell.
Gain the hard yards.
Take the positives from the first half.
Be streetwise.

AND do not dump anyone on their head in the first twenty minutes!

[HERSH]

[Comfort]

you forgot:

Bring your own ball boy.

[munkian]

Sure fire way to spend a night in A and E - have drink EVERYTIME Johnny is mentioned, really livens up the Scotland v England drudge match

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