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what would be your 35 man squad for south Africa tour?

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stlowe
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Post by adambarney Thu 16 Feb 2012, 1:36 pm

props: corbiesro cole mullan marler doran-jones

hooker: hartley gray george

locks: lawes garvey attlewood robson

back row: croft wood robshaw kvesic morgan wallace

scrum half: dickson spencer youngs

fly half: flood farrell cipriani

centres: barritt tuilagi joseph hopper

wing: ashton sharples wade may

full back: foden homer brown

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Post by Geordie Thu 16 Feb 2012, 2:28 pm

When is the tour...june or July?

props: corbiesro, cole, mullan, marler, doran-jones - Yup agree

hooker: Hartley, George, If Lindsay has learnt to throw..then he could very well challenge for a spot...he's a big lump...Gray v Lindsay??

locks: lawes, garvey, attwood, robson - Not a fan of Robson. I'd go with Slater possibly, or Kitchener if you need a lineout man.

back row: croft wood robshaw kvesic morgan wallace - Yup can go along with this

scrum half: dickson spencer youngs - Yup

fly half: flood farrell cipriani - No Cipriani...Id take Burns

centres: barritt tuilagi joseph hopper - Purely biased but i'd take Fitzpatrick over Hopper to match those bruising SA's Wink

wing: ashton sharples wade may - Yup

full back: foden homer brown ...Is Homer the LI winger and kicker?


Last edited by GeordieFalcon on Thu 16 Feb 2012, 4:07 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Biltong Thu 16 Feb 2012, 3:41 pm

you guys can bring who ever you want, as long as you keep your relatively dire form. thumbsup
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Post by Geordie Thu 16 Feb 2012, 3:46 pm

What - 2 wins out of 2.... Hug

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Post by Effervescing Elephant Thu 16 Feb 2012, 3:47 pm

Bilt, are you not worried that we might leave with more players than we arrived with...cough...lucrative contract...cough...international career...cough...
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Post by Ozzy3213 Thu 16 Feb 2012, 3:48 pm

GeordieFalcon wrote:What - 2 wins out of 2.... Hug

Both away from home whilst playing well within the teams capabilities. I'll settle for that! Very Happy
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Post by Biltong Thu 16 Feb 2012, 3:48 pm

Carpe Diem wrote:Bilt, are you not worried that we might leave with more players than we arrived with...cough...lucrative contract...cough...international career...cough...
Crying or Very sad Yeah.
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Post by Chjw131 Thu 16 Feb 2012, 3:48 pm

Who is Attlewood?! I guess you mean Dave Attwood on that one. Also I think you're a bit light on the FH front. You have Flood, who will make it i'm sure. Then a Centre who's hardly played FH for his club let alone country so far this season. And then someone call Cipriani? Who the hell is he?

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Post by Biltong Thu 16 Feb 2012, 3:48 pm

That was very funny Carpe Diem. thumbsup
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Post by bluestonevedder Thu 16 Feb 2012, 3:50 pm

Heard a lot of accolades for this young lad Jamie George, but have to confess I've never seen him play. What's so good about him?

Lindsay looks as though his throwing had improved at the weekend, which would be great. His style reminds me of Bismarck Du Plessis.

Get rid of Robson, I think he's too lightweight and one dimensional. Bring in Parling for me. Just as good in the lineout, but offers more around the park.

Backrow looks spot on. Start developing Kvesic and Wallace.

Agree with Geordie regarding Burns for Cips! What has Cips done to deserve a recall...?

Centres good, apart from Hopper. I'd be tempted to go Lowe possibly, depending on how his form goes from now until then. Otherwise Trinder.

Wings and Fullbacks look great

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Post by Effervescing Elephant Thu 16 Feb 2012, 3:53 pm

biltongbek wrote:That was very funny Carpe Diem. thumbsup

Very Happy
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Post by Chjw131 Thu 16 Feb 2012, 3:56 pm

Lowe would be a good option, but I haven't seen him play since he's come back from injury. Joseph has looked excellent even post injury and Trinder would have to tour for me. He has pace, vision and a decent kicking game.

I think we'll get pretty beaten up front if we're not careful. Jamie George is one of those players who looks instantly class, and will be picking up a lot from Brits and Smit. He's a heavyweight hooker, good line out throw and gets about the park. For an SA test i'd want to see a pack of:

1. Corbisiero
2. George
3. Cole
4. Garvey
5. Parling
6. Lawes
7. Robshaw
8. Morgan

It's fairly heavy duty, well the best we can muster at the present anyway and I think could do well against SA. What say you Biltong?

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Post by Biltong Thu 16 Feb 2012, 3:59 pm

Chjw, anything is possible mate, at some point England will turn the tables on us and now is a good time, we have some senior players gone, so one of two things will happen

Heyneke Meyer, will pull in a lot of new guys, which in my opinion is what we should be doing, even if we do badly this year, or he will keep as many out of form seniors he can and then the series will be a hard fought grind.
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Post by formerly known as Sam Thu 16 Feb 2012, 4:00 pm

Heard a lot of accolades for this young lad Jamie George, but have to confess I've never seen him play. What's so good about him?

Built like an old school hooker (BIG) but plays like the dynamic ball carrying hookers that are currently flavour of the week. Needs to tighten up his set piece and get a bit more niggely but other than that is doing very well indeed for a young man (21?) in a tough position.

It's going to be a very long season if the likes of Youngs and Cole who played in the RWC and all through the season are dragged away from a break for another month. It might be an idea to rest en masse all those that played more than 3 games at the RWC and who appeared in the 6N otherwise there's a real chance of fatigue and injury.

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Post by killer938 Thu 16 Feb 2012, 4:04 pm

Have to agree with bluestone, Parling should be in there for me and should start the game against Wales as well, Palmer just hasn't impressed me so far. I would also take Trinder over Hopper and Burns over Cipriani. Everything else looks good

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Post by bluestonevedder Thu 16 Feb 2012, 4:32 pm

Ah cheers for the information on Jamie George-he's certainly a unit, might have to look out for him. Certainly getting good experience at Sarries with Smit and Brits there!

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Post by bathmad Thu 16 Feb 2012, 5:06 pm

Are we allowed to select a completely new EPS before the tour? Otherwise Adam's original squad is just a pipe dream...

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Post by Chjw131 Thu 16 Feb 2012, 5:08 pm

Cipriani is the one that should be the pipe dream!

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Post by Cumbrian Thu 16 Feb 2012, 8:19 pm

adambarney wrote:props: corbiesro cole mullan marler doran-jones With Corbisiero and Cole, England are developing a very good long term front row. The loosehead resources look very good with Mullan and Marler waiting in the wings. However, at the back of my mind is the worry that Cole will probably pick up a long term injury at some point. The experienced stock of tighthead props is not so impressive. I’d like to see a genuine contender; I’m not really convinced by Stevens, but he is in possession at the moment. If we have the room and he has the fitness, I wouldn’t mind seeing someone like Kieran Brookes or Henry Thomas coming along for the experience in a dirt tracker game (I’m assuming there will be a couple?).

hooker: hartley gray george

locks: lawes garvey attlewood robson I wouldn't bin Tom Palmer, he is an experienced-ish member of the squad now. If there is room in the squad, I like to include another bolter like Joe Launchbury, the lad will be an England player at some point.

back row: croft wood robshaw kvesic morgan wallace Who would be the back up no.8? A tour to S.A will be punishing, I'd like another dedicated no.8 coming along. If he is available I'd like to see Haskell back involved, if not I'd like to see Carl Fearns involved (if he is fit). Personally I'd let Kvesic stay with the U20's this summer, Luke Wallace could be a good idea though.

scrum half: dickson spencer youngs

fly half: flood farrell cipriani

centres: barritt tuilagi joseph hopper I'd like to see them take another genuine inside centre. Not exactly awash with them though I know. Maybe Twelvetrees, Allen or Turner-Hall? Actually Geordie, Fitzy might not be such a bad call, he certainly fits the bill of the hard running inside centre. Does he have the handling ability for international rugby though?

wing: ashton sharples wade may

full back: foden homer brown I'd be tempted to include Rob Miller or Alex Goode. Miller has been excellent for Sale this season and I feel that Goode has deserved a shot for a couple of years now.
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Post by Cumbrian Thu 16 Feb 2012, 8:30 pm

Are you sure the squad will be limited to 35?


Props: Alex Corbisiero, Dan Cole, Matt Mullan, Joe Marler , Matt Stevens and Kieran Brookes or Henry Thomas

Hooker: Dylan Hartley, Rob Webber, Jamie George

Second Row: Courtney Lawes, Tom Palmer, Dave Attwood, Matt Garvey and Joe Launchbury

Back Row: Tom Croft, Chris Robshaw, Tom Wood, Luke Wallace, Ben Morgan and Carl Fearns

Scrum Half: Ben Youngs, Danny Care and Lee Dickson

Fly Half: Toby Flood, Owen Farrell, Freddie Burns

Centres: Brad Barritt, Jordan Turner-Hall (another), Manu Tuilagi, Henry Trinder

Wing: Chris Ashton, Charlie Sharples, Jonny May, James Short

Full back: Ben Foden, Alex Goode, Rob Miller
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Post by niwatts Thu 16 Feb 2012, 9:43 pm

We took a 44 man squad on tour to Australia in 2010.


Corbisero, Cole, Mullan, Marler, Stevens, PDJ

Hartley, Gray, Webber, Paice

Lawes, Garvey, Parling, Attwood, Robson, Slater

Wood, Robshaw, Fearns, Crane (if fit by then), Morgan, Wallace, Croft, Guest
(big hopes for Kvesic, but I think an additional year focusing on his club rugby would be better for his development)

Youngs, Care, Dickson, Spencer

Flood, Burns, Farrell

Barritt, Twelvetrees, Tuilagi, Joseph, Trinder

Ashton, Sharples, May, Wade, Benjamin

Foden, Brown, Goode



Last edited by niwatts on Fri 17 Feb 2012, 1:34 am; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Morgannwg Thu 16 Feb 2012, 10:44 pm

This is probably going to be another tour from hell. On the tour down under did they not play Aus 'A' and NZ Maori? Which explained the 45 man squad.

Not sure I can comment on the overall squad but 6. Croft/Wood 7. Ksevic and 8. Morgan looks like it could have great potential.
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Post by fa0019 Thu 16 Feb 2012, 11:03 pm

I'm not so sure it will be a tour of hell.

The boks have a lot of re-structuring to do as they have lost a lot of experienced players.

No Smit, Steenkamp, Bakkies, Matfield, Russouw, Du Preez, Frans Steyn, Fioure. The lineout will have to be totally re-built for starters.

They will very much be in the same boat as England... but they won't have a 5 match tournament to blood young players before they play.

That to say... they should still win the series.

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Post by niwatts Fri 17 Feb 2012, 12:31 am

Morgannwg wrote:On the tour down under did they not play Aus 'A' and NZ Maori? Which explained the 45 man squad.

2010 was a 5 match tour, the 2 tests and 3 midweek games against Barbarian and Maori sides. This year will also be 5 matches, 3 tests and 2 midweek games against a Barbarian side.

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Post by ChequeredJersey Fri 17 Feb 2012, 12:48 am

Why does everybody hate Anthony Allen? Sad
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Post by ChequeredJersey Fri 17 Feb 2012, 12:53 am

bathmad wrote:Are we allowed to select a completely new EPS before the tour? Otherwise Adam's original squad is just a pipe dream...

If Lancaster doesn't get the permanent Job, presumably the new coach will be allowed to pick his own EPS?


Last edited by ChequeredJersey on Fri 17 Feb 2012, 10:06 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post by formerly known as Sam Fri 17 Feb 2012, 9:28 am

Why does everybody hate Anthony Allen?

I don't think they do, he's just not in very good form at the minute and has missed a good chunk of the season because he nearly cut his own thumb off. Maybe his form will pick up before the end of the season and he'll sneak into the squad.

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Post by stlowe Fri 17 Feb 2012, 10:47 am

If there are midweek games you effectively need two match day XXIIs, so it'll be a 44 man squad again.

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Post by niwatts Sat 18 Feb 2012, 5:46 pm

Just watched the SF v Toulon game and S.Armitage was in cracking form; excellent link play, physical running and quality floor work.

If the manager in charge by the summer reiterates Lancaster's stance that he will look at foreign based players, I'd be very happy for him to be included.

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Post by gowales Sat 18 Feb 2012, 7:12 pm

niwatts
I was just about to write that! Armitage is playing very well. I've always been impressed with him such an all round classy player. If not for injuries he would have many caps by now.

I think Lancaster or whoever is coach then should definitely consider him. Hes by far the best English open side.

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Post by Morgannwg Sat 18 Feb 2012, 7:16 pm

He's probably the only English open side. To me Ksevic looks like he has better potential.
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Post by thomh Sat 18 Feb 2012, 8:56 pm

bluestonevedder wrote:
Centres good, apart from Hopper. I'd be tempted to go Lowe possibly, depending on how his form goes from now until then. Otherwise Trinder.

He was Quins' best back today. Punches well above his weight in defence, but realistically our midfield is going to be built round Tuilagi in the near future, and given that neither he nor Lowe are the best distributors he may struggle to get in.

Incidentally Marler got MOM today with Quins' scrum winning the game. I wonder if he'll get onto the bench before the end of the tournament.

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Post by doctor_grey Sat 18 Feb 2012, 10:04 pm

formerly known as Sam wrote:It's going to be a very long season if the likes of Youngs and Cole who played in the RWC and all through the season are dragged away from a break for another month. It might be an idea to rest en masse all those that played more than 3 games at the RWC and who appeared in the 6N otherwise there's a real chance of fatigue and injury.
This is a great catch and I completely agree.

We really need to mind our players and make sure they do not play too much Rugby and get fatigue driven injuries. The RWC years are long to start with, and then another long season afterwards can be brutal.

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Post by thomh Sat 18 Feb 2012, 11:14 pm

gowales wrote:niwatts
I was just about to write that! Armitage is playing very well. I've always been impressed with him such an all round classy player. If not for injuries he would have many caps by now.

I think Lancaster or whoever is coach then should definitely consider him. Hes by far the best English open side.

He didn't show his best form in the few chances he was given either. If today is anything to go by then we've seriously missed a trick with him.

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Post by Rory_Gallagher Sat 18 Feb 2012, 11:15 pm

Will Haskell be available for the tour?

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Post by stlowe Sun 19 Feb 2012, 2:21 am

Super Rugby breaks for 3 and a bit weeks before the last 3 rounds whilst the tours are on in June, and the Highlanders are unlikely to be pushing for a play-off spot so the club may well let him turn out. The England squad will meet up and start training 3-4 weeks beforehand though, with a Barbarians game at the end of May before they leave, so they may decide he would be too late an addition to their preperations.

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Post by bluestonevedder Mon 20 Feb 2012, 9:26 am

From what I saw of Launchberry in the Wasps game, he's got a great future ahead of him. First game back from injury and he was playing like a man possessed. Excellent potential. Anybody else see his performance?

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