Cardiff Blues squad and off-field updates.

First topic message reminder :

It appears that the following players will be leaving the Blues at the end of the season


DEPARTURE

Gavin Henson - Sacked

TRThomas - Despite being given the captaincy a few times this season, Thomas is due to leave - He is one of the players who has been excellent for us, is available all year round and we should be building a team around him. But he is off to Wasps.

Gethin Jenkins - 1 of our 4 world class players is off to Toulon

Casey Laulaula - The second centre to go, he is off to Munster, despite being available all year round.

Dan Parks is off to Connacht

Ritchie Rees is going to Edinburgh

Deniol Jones is retired

Martyn Williams is retiring

Mamma Molitika is retiring

John Yapp is leaving to go to Edinburgh

Ben Blair has apparently been offered a contract in France, at Lyon and is leaving

Jamie Roberts will miss a large part of next season through injury

Paul Tito is retiring

Ryan Tyrell is returning to Australia

Xavier Rush has retired as a player due to injury

Justin Burnell has left with immediate effect

Richard Mustoe rumoured retirement



ARRIVING AND STAYING

Xavier Rush has become the next defence coach

Jason Tovey is the only new signing of any significance announced so far, from the Dragons

Robin Copeland is confirmed from Rotherham RFC - some good reports, a replacement for Molitika

Lou Reed is signing though from the Scarlets

And Gavin Evans has signed a new 2 year contract extension...woop

Benoit Bourrust a THP from Perpignan is arriving

Fijian LHP prop Campese Ma'afu has signed from Australian side West Harbour Pirates

Hooker Andi Kyriacou is being targeted from Ulster - confirmed

Ceri Sweeney is staying with the Blues with a contract extension

Fau Filise has signed a contract extension (Probably 1 year)

A new Director of Rugby Phil Davies has joined.

Alex Cuthbert has signed a 1 year extension

Rob Lewis confirmed coming at SH from London Welsh

Deniol Jones is now team manager

Lee Jarvis has been appointed skills coach


Squad for next season


Props
Sam Hobbs
Ma'afu Campese
Benoit Bourrust
Scott Andrews
Fau Filise
Ryan Hartford
Nathan Trevett
Thomas Davies

Hookers
Andy Kyricau
Kristian Dacey
Mark Breeze
Rhys Williams

Locks
Bradley Davies
Lou Reed
James Down
Cory Hill
McCauley Cook
Matthew Screech

Backrow
Michael Paterson
Robin Copeland
Sam Warburton
Josh Navidi
Andreus Pretorious
Ellis Jenkins
Thomas Young
Luke Hamilton


Scrum Halfs
Lloyd Williams
Rob Lewis
Lewis Jones

Fly Halfs
Jason Tovey
Ceri Sweeney
Rhys Patchell

Centres
Jamie Roberts
Daffydd Hewitt
Gavin Evans
Cory Allen
Owen Williams

Back 3
Alex Cuthbert
Tom James
Leigh Halfpenny
Dan Fish
Chris Czekaj
Harry Robinson

Cardiff Dave wrote:

rugbydreamer wrote:it is bonkers, dave, but surely the fans realise now that they have to start going to the games, otherwise the Blues lieterally won't survive?

Hopefully if they keep averaging 9k at the CAP, they'll be getting in a lot more money ticket wise then they have been and that can help towards covering the cost.

it is a bit of a ridiculous situation though.

Many people mention the fans, but how many fans are there?
We previously averaged say 7-8k at CAP. That's still way, way short of meeting the astronomical costs of CCS and miles away from filling the place.
Unless they can magic several thousand out of thin air, they will never be able to survive at CCS anyway whether the current lot of fans go to games or not.

The Blues have a region with greater than 600,000 people in it (after a very rough Wiki check) and avg 7,000 (though I swear it was more the season they moved to CCS and was closer to 10k) - that's around 0.01% of the total. If the Blues aren't getting the fans in or aren't interesting them then they might want to think about marketing themselves differently or appealling to people other than the old Cardiff RFC fans.

That is a woeful attendence for the size of the region....but then you look at the size of all the regions and realize it's not just the Blues

gcBlues wrote:Talk about over reacting, Wales606.

Let's have a look at the players 'leaving' (as you have no information, just rumours from thearmspark forum) :

wales606 wrote:It appears that the following players will be leaving the Blues at the end of the season

Gavin Henson - Can't afford to offer him a contract, even though he can cover 3 positions and is unlikely to be away with Wales. Possible return to the Ospreys? He was only ever on a short term contract, it's not as if we brought him in with a view to keeping him beyond this season. it was always a try it and see process.

TRThomas - Despite being given the captaincy a few times this season, Thomas is due to leave - He is one of the players who has been excellent for us, is available all year round and we should be building a team around him. But he is off to Wasps. With Bennett now out of the transfer market, the Blues will be in deeper trouble at Hooker next season. Building a team round him? Are you sure? He's a decent player but too many injuries

Gethin Jenkins - One of our 3 world class players is off to Toulon, worse yet, there will be no Rhys Gill or E.Roberts GJ would obviously go, he's getting on but still has enough years left to pull in the big money in france. Always on the cards. Rhys Gill won't come back to wales for now, he'll be at the Saracens for the next 3 years then either back to wales or somewhere else. As for ELR, he's a tub of lard THP who didn't move to a region because he wanted to be near his farm...yet moves to toulon? fat waste of space chasing money. No thanks. We have Sam Hobbs to come in at LHP anyway.

Casey Laulaula - The second centre to go, he is off to Munster, despite being available all year round. Superb before this season, hot & cold this season. Not ideal losing him, but these things happen

Dan Parks is off to Connacht And?

and Ceri Sweeney off to Ponty, leaving us very short of FHs Hasn't been first choice for the blues since SNK and rightly so, he isn't the answer

Ritchie Rees is going to Perpignan or another french teams, leaving us very short of cover when L.Williams is away. Richie has been on the wane since being dropped by wales. We've got Lloyd and also that lad who played during the world cup.

Deniol Jones is being released, possibly to the Dragons Excellent servant, but now too old to command a place on the bench, let alone starting

Martyn Williams, Tau Filise and Mamma Molitika are all likely to retire. MW & Maama are at the end of their careers and Filise is 35 as well.

Meanwhile, Jamie Roberts and Leigh Halfpenny look set to be off when their contracts run out at the end of next season. Of course they will, they'll be offered about 3 times as much as they are now.

So to sum up. Next seasons table will not look good for the Blues. :/

Even a £500,000 boost from the HC 1/4 is not helping us keep any players.

While there will be players leaving, the ones doing so are the older players. The only one i think we could have kept would have been Casey, but he got an offer from a more successful team and good luck to him.

This time was always going to come, no point getting hysterical over it. Sure we will be a bit thin in places, but then we have to play youngsters at some point.

Casey Laulaula, TRT, Filise and Gethin are the only 1st team player leaving at the moment.

But how often do we get to play our first team.

When international callups happen we wont have R.Rees to call on for example (he was brilliant on Friday), and Downes and Jones do not have the experience and have not proven themselves - both will be in the matchday 22 - 1 injury and we have no SH with even a small amount of experience left (Downes hasn't played regionally all season and Jones has only had a few games)

Depth is very important for the region to compete in the Rabbo and HC. If some quality replacements are not brought in then we will struggle next season as the few promising academy players are not ready yet.

The Blues have always introduced young talent gradually, with experienced player around them who teach them discipline - and it works incredibly well (Warburton, Roberts, 1/2p, BD etc and this season, Cuthbert). When a whole group of inexperienced young player are forced into the 1st team due to injury and internationals, we will see the same scorelines we have had in the LV cup.

So yes, Mamma, Filise, Deniol and Martyn are at the end of there careers - But the problem is - THERE ARE NO REPLACEMENTS.

At the moment, Tovey could be our only FH next season - he is injury prone, and when he manages a run of game, he gets called into the welsh squad = its lose, lose for the Blues.

Wales606 - You'll have to use your academy players, and utilise your feeder clubs better - tis the only answer

Cardiff Dave wrote:

Welshmushroom wrote:

Rhys Thomas leaving is not a massive blow. He wont ever make it back into the National setup and there is so much quality in his position. Scarlets already got 4 quality ones in Emyr Phillips. Rees, Owens and Myhill. They cant possibly need all of them.

Losing TRT is a huge blow to Cardiff Blues as he is a very good hooker and would be available throughout the season.

Yep, if Tito had not been offered a contract (he still might not be, especially with I.Evans and Reed linked) - then I think TRT would have become the club captain, he is available all year round and has become a very useful player for the Blues. Add in Gareth Williams retirement and the Blues have hardly any quality left at hooker, Tyrell is the best option, Breeze is a premiership player who shouldn't starting for the Blues and Dacey and Williams and still developing (although both look to have a lot of potential)

You mean utilizing the player from the club teams in their region - who they get on so well with

pretty much geoff!

Like I've said, tough times ahead.

Scarlets never used to be on great terms with Llandovery or Carmarthen Quins as they felt they were too Llanelli focused. They've worked hugely on that and now they get players from all their feeder clubs, instead of just the one.

rugbydreamer wrote:Wales606 - You'll have to use your academy players, and utilise your feeder clubs better - tis the only answer

Throwing them in all at once doesn't help their development though.

Patchell is the only 10 in the academy (for some reason 10 is the only position the Blues struggle to develop players in)

There is a lot of young talent, but

1. Hobbs
2. Dacey/Williams
3. Andrews
4. Hill
5. Cook
6. Jenkins
7. Navidi/Young
8. Hamilton
9. Jones/Downes
10. Patchell
11. Robinson
12. Allen
13. O.Williams
14. Cuthbert
15. Fish

Would get absolutely munched.



The Blues and Scarlets both provide 3 player each to the Welsh backline

The Blues tend to bring through 1-2 player a year into the 1st team, where they tend to stay - so it may not seem like much is changing, compared to the Scarlets who throw in players constantly (eg. Warren, Williams etc), but the Blues still make the most of their academy players.

When the team is being coached by Baber and Burnell, I don't think we will get the same results if we start throwing youngsters in - which is a pity.

Agree as an outsider I get the impression that the other 3 Regions have workled a bit on their regional identies. Without going off at a tangent how are Swansea-Neath relationships thee days ?

Maybe cutting the wage bill like this and focusing on the academy will mean short term pain for long term gain? Look at Scarlets. Actually, look at Munster and Leinster. The talent is there in the Celtic nations to produce top class teams. Surely with the population density of Cardiff and the wider region, they have a catchment area as big as Munster, if not quite as big as Leinster.

Clearly the regions haven't quite captured the imagination of the Welsh public at large yet. And the benefactors haven't seen any return on their investments I'd say. Cardiff need to get out of the expensive stadium deal, cut their cloth, and rebuild a home grown squad. The Welsh love rugby. So despite what some Welsh posters think, I believe the regions have huge potential to attract fans and succeed on the field. The fact that they haven't yet, doesn't mean they can't.

Despite the fact that I'm Irish, I'd hate the regions to permanently fall behind the provinces and for the Pro 12 to become completely Irish dominated. I love watching Welsh rugby in full flow. And I'd love the regions to match the class of their current test team.

geoff998rugby wrote: You mean utilizing the player from the club teams in their region - who they get on so well with

To be fair, some Ponty player have made their way into the Blues team in recent years, and a fair number make it to the Blues academy (who tend to send them out for CRFC for some stupid reason) - But I would certainly like more Ponty player involved (As well as 2 Ponty coaches who are a lot better than B&B)

the Chief would turn the Blues into an awsome team if he was given the chance.

LordDowlais wrote:the Chief would turn the Blues into an awsome team if he was given the chance.

I doubt he will be given a chance under this board :/

wales606 wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:the Chief would turn the Blues into an awsome team if he was given the chance.

I doubt he will be given a chance under this board :/

Yep, it's a massive shame, but as it has always been that way at Cardiff, it is always jobs for the boys. If you face does not fit, then you wont get in.

wales606 wrote:

geoff998rugby wrote: You mean utilizing the player from the club teams in their region - who they get on so well with

To be fair, some Ponty player have made their way into the Blues team in recent years, and a fair number make it to the Blues academy (who tend to send them out for CRFC for some stupid reason) - But I would certainly like more Ponty player involved (As well as 2 Ponty coaches who are a lot better than B&B)

It was decided a few years ago to concentrate the academy players in one team and farm out other players if there were too many in one position.

LordDowlais wrote:the Chief would turn the Blues into an awsome team if he was given the chance.

Dale "The Chief" Mcintosh coaches Cardiff Blues U18's. His time will come.

Feckless Rogue wrote:Maybe cutting the wage bill like this and focusing on the academy will mean short term pain for long term gain? Look at Scarlets. Actually, look at Munster and Leinster. The talent is there in the Celtic nations to produce top class teams. Surely with the population density of Cardiff and the wider region, they have a catchment area as big as Munster, if not quite as big as Leinster.

Clearly the regions haven't quite captured the imagination of the Welsh public at large yet. And the benefactors haven't seen any return on their investments I'd say. Cardiff need to get out of the expensive stadium deal, cut their cloth, and rebuild a home grown squad. The Welsh love rugby. So despite what some Welsh posters think, I believe the regions have huge potential to attract fans and succeed on the field. The fact that they haven't yet, doesn't mean they can't.

Despite the fact that I'm Irish, I'd hate the regions to permanently fall behind the provinces and for the Pro 12 to become completely Irish dominated. I love watching Welsh rugby in full flow. And I'd love the regions to match the class of their current test team.

Oh yes.
Some of the money, about half of it, loaned to the club by Peter Thomas earns interest and I believe he gets this paid monthly, so he's had some return over the years.

Cardiff Dave wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:the Chief would turn the Blues into an awsome team if he was given the chance.

Dale "The Chief" Mcintosh coaches Cardiff Blues U18's. His time will come.

Is he coaching both U18?

geoff998rugby wrote: You mean utilizing the player from the club teams in their region - who they get on so well with

Teams as in more than one?

wales606 wrote:

Cardiff Dave wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:the Chief would turn the Blues into an awsome team if he was given the chance.

Dale "The Chief" Mcintosh coaches Cardiff Blues U18's. His time will come.

Is he coaching both U18?

Both?

I had heard that his contract was ended up due to that pontypridd RFC pre season pish up and subsequent brawl last year?

Cardiff Dave wrote:

wales606 wrote:

Cardiff Dave wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:the Chief would turn the Blues into an awsome team if he was given the chance.

Dale "The Chief" Mcintosh coaches Cardiff Blues U18's. His time will come.

Is he coaching both U18?

Both?

Isn't it Blues North and South? - Or is that the U16s?

wales606 wrote:

Cardiff Dave wrote:

wales606 wrote:

Cardiff Dave wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:the Chief would turn the Blues into an awsome team if he was given the chance.

Dale "The Chief" Mcintosh coaches Cardiff Blues U18's. His time will come.

Is he coaching both U18?

Both?

Isn't it Blues North and South? - Or is that the U16s?

Yep, my bad - we have 2 U16s teams, but only 1 U18s team - All those disappointed 17yr olds at the end of the season.

gcBlues wrote:I had heard that his contract was ended up due to that pontypridd RFC pre season pish up and subsequent brawl last year?

Oh aye. I don't know actually, but he was acquitted recently.
If he did lose his role then we'll have to say he used to be Cardiff Blues U18s coach.

wales606 wrote:

Cardiff Dave wrote:

wales606 wrote:

Cardiff Dave wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:the Chief would turn the Blues into an awsome team if he was given the chance.

Dale "The Chief" Mcintosh coaches Cardiff Blues U18's. His time will come.

Is he coaching both U18?

Both?

Isn't it Blues North and South? - Or is that the U16s?

Here's the link. I think you're right about the U16s being north and south.

http://cardiffrfc.com/NewsArticle.aspx?n=18189

Cardiff Dave wrote:

gcBlues wrote:I had heard that his contract was ended up due to that pontypridd RFC pre season pish up and subsequent brawl last year?

Oh aye. I don't know actually, but he was acquitted recently.
If he did lose his role then we'll have to say he used to be Cardiff Blues U18s coach.

Yeah, I certainly thought he was out of favour after the brawl.

http://www.cardiffblues.com/development/u18_coaches.php

Looks like McIntosh is still in charge.

rugbydreamer wrote:pretty much geoff!

Like I've said, tough times ahead.

Scarlets never used to be on great terms with Llandovery or Carmarthen Quins as they felt they were too Llanelli focused. They've worked hugely on that and now they get players from all their feeder clubs, instead of just the one.

I wonder what the situation would be like way out west if Pontypridd RFC was 10mins up the road from Llanelli instead of Cardiff.

commented on tis when young went, he would instantly create a cult like following hes that type of character....

It never rains, but it pours.

"Cardiff Blues players and Wales internationals Ceri Sweeney and Tom James have been arrested on suspicion of assault after an incident in Cardiff city centre."

Read More http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/2012/02/28/cardiff-blues-players-tom-james-and-ceri-sweeney-arrested-on-suspicion-of-assault-after-wales-triple-crown-victory-91466-30426559/#ixzz1nhtknXst

Cardiff Dave wrote:It never rains, but it pours.

"Cardiff Blues players and Wales internationals Ceri Sweeney and Tom James have been arrested on suspicion of assault after an incident in Cardiff city centre."

Read More http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/2012/02/28/cardiff-blues-players-tom-james-and-ceri-sweeney-arrested-on-suspicion-of-assault-after-wales-triple-crown-victory-91466-30426559/#ixzz1nhtknXst

Great...

Idiots! It's bad enough that it happens, what makes it worse is that they are totally uninvolved with the squad as well.

hahahaha that's brilliant. Stupid, but then look at the two involved.

Anyone have a link to any info regarding Henson not staying an extra season?

When will the exodus end, reports in South Wales Argus that Cuthbert is a target for Northampton to replace Ashton

Looseheaded wrote:Anyone have a link to any info regarding Henson not staying an extra season?

Commented on from Baber in the rugby paper this week I believe

DRAGONONPARADE wrote:When will the exodus end, reports in South Wales Argus that Cuthbert is a target for Northampton to replace Ashton

Great...

Don't know about a development region in Wales, all the regions are turning into development sides for the rest of Europe

I wouldn't say all the regions are DragononParade.

I honestly think this whole 'player exodus' is being blown out of proportion and is scare mongering by the media.

Sure some big names are going but they are the senior squad members. The young guys are all staying, and they are the most important ones.

rugbydreamer wrote:I wouldn't say all the regions are DragononParade.

I honestly think this whole 'player exodus' is being blown out of proportion and is scare mongering by the media.

Sure some big names are going but they are the senior squad members. The young guys are all staying, and they are the most important ones.

I don't know, I'd term a feeder team, as 'a team that brings through young players, gives them game time and gives them experience, and the ones that shine at that level move to bigger teams'

So the young guys prob will be the ones staying but the difficulty is they MAY move on, when someone else shows an intrest in them.

Yes they MAY move on, but not all of them.

Adam Jones is staying at the O's, isn't he?

Faletau re-signed for the Dragons last season, didn't he?

I just think that it's all started to go a bit OTT about the apparent Welsh player exodus.

your not wrong rugbydreamer. Looking at the front 8 the Ospreys will still be fielding next season:-

1. P. James
2. R. Hibbard
3. A. Jones
4. A.W. Jones
5. I. Evans
6. R. Jones
7. J. Tipuric
8. J. Thomas

All of them capped internationally by Wales. Given that they also have Stowers, Gough, D. Jones, R. Bevington etc, the pack is still looking formidable.

I cant think of any English club side who are able to field a international front 8.

I think people are forgetting England are also being targeted. They have already lost the likes of Strokosch, Narraway, Sheridan

Garvey, Armitage and Kennedy are also rumoured to be going. It wont stop there either.

In truth a lot of French Club Rosters are getting on a bit. I did say it wont be long before they come looting for players. Its only going to get worse during the next 2 seasons. In fairness to them with 3 teams getting relegated each season they cant afford to take any chances so I understand the buying export policy. That said if it continues its possible it may do massive damage to their National Team.

Wales and England however will just keep developing new players which isnt a bad thing.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/17202019

Welsh regions turning into nurseries,

Gethin Jenkins, Luke Charteris, Phillips, Hook, Lee Byrne, Jenkins, Charteris, Aled Brew and Huw Bennett are all leaving.

We could argu which ones are important etc etc, but the regions were formed to keep teh best players in Wales, playing together and available for longer international training camps etc, bringing new players through, if the senior players are leaving it's a bad sign for the regions future.

As an outsider my solution would be to cut funding to the Welsh prem and have it go to the regions instead.

The saving Grace may be that France are introducing NFQ rules, meaning that there will only be a limited number of forgien players that can play in France.

Brew? never solidified his Wales place
Byrne - lucky to get in the squad these days
Bennett - coming to end of career and we have 4 other international hookers in Wales
Hook - bench cover at best for us now

Looking at that Jenkins, Charteris and Phillips are the only big losses, but even then, Phillips going has cleared a space for Webb.

So that's what 3 players that might have an impact with player release. When you consider the size of training squads etc, that's not bad at all and probably better off then a lot of other countries.

Seriously I think it's a panic about nothing.

I cant think of any English club side who are able to field a international front 8.

Tigers?

1.Ayerza - Argentina
2.Chuter - England
3.Castro - Italy
4.Deacon - England
5.Parling - England
6.Croft - England
7.Newby - NZ
8.Crane - England

Bench;
16.No other int hooker
17.Mullipola - Samoa
18.Cole - England
19.Mafi - Tonga
20.Savli - Aus

Be a fine thing for them all to be fit and available at the same time though.

The French teams are always going to be able to tempt the players in their late 20s or French nationals back to France. The budgets over there are a lot bigger and the strain on the player is less as the bigger squads in France offer more chance for rotation.

Sorry Sam. What I should have said is a English International 8. No side in the Aviva can field 8 English International Forwards.

On a side note - isnt Newby a Blindside Flanker by trade. Slipping him at Openside probably shows how short quality 7s are in England.

Fine effort though on Leicester and they probably are the best side to have come closest to this challenge. Had we gone back a decade though both Wasps and Leicester would have been able to field an English capped 8 which probably explains their dominance in Europe as well back then.

Newby made his only appearence for NZ as a 7. He can play 6,7,8 but Tigers mainly use him as a 7 with cover at 6 and 8 as required. He's good at slowing opposition ball but isn't the best turnover merchant which is why we brought in Salvi in the summer.

Tigers have always had one or two foreign internationals around the team and used to be famous for being better than the sum of their parts. We certainly aren't as strong as we were though, the days of a pack like:

Rowntree, Cockerill, Garforth
Johnson, Kay
Back, Corry, Moody

are gone. No English club would be able to sustain that level of expenditure these days, wages have been inflated massively and it's a tough balancing act as squad depth is of prime importance. To be fair we're not far off having an all England capped pack and Ayerza would walk into the England team if he was qualified but it's difficult trying to keep that many players at their peak. Younger players are cheaper and less prone to injury and call ups.

Will Leicester hold on to Ayerza? He's defnitly going to be involved with Argentina for the 4 Nations so he wont be available for Pre Season. They got rid of Agulla for that reason. Will he follow?

He's signed a new contract. Cockers pointed out that finding an international class loosehead is harder that finding an international class winger as the reason for keeping him but releasing Agulla.

The hope is that Stanko and the young props Brookes and Mullipola (who both play both sides) will hold the fort until Marcos returns. Stanko is experienced but a bit average and the two young guys are briming with potential, offer a lot in the loose and are both build like brick out houses (about 20 stone each). We should be ok.

rugbydreamer wrote:

Seriously I think it's a panic about nothing.

It's not the player drain at Cardiff Blues that particularly concerns me.
What has led to it does and a big part of it is the stadium deal which has been the biggest worry for the last 3 seasons at least. Even before we actually left the Arms Park, information began to surface that didn't add up, so the warning signs were already becoming visible. Since then, more and more details have emerged bit by bit over the years, till it got to the point where alarm bells were ringing loud and clear and bouncing off the walls in cartoon like fashion, indicating that the adventure was doomed to failure and that the reasons for moving to CCS were rather dubious to say the least.
Even so, during all this the club made out everything was fine and dandy and the local press wouldn't go near the subject.
A cover up?

Now Cardiff Blues are in a situation that all the others have to deal with in terms of the economy etc, but with an extra gigantic millstone of biblical proportions around the neck, dragging them down.
They simply have to find some way of sorting the CCS problem otherwise they're knackered.