RFU tell John Kirwan he's not experienced enough to coach England - BBC Ticker.

Interesting call. Makes you wonder whether the same applied to Lancaster!

Surely as an attack coach though....

Whether this is true or not...i wouldnt want Kirwan in charge.

Im actually not sure about Mallet either to be fair...although Biltong is shouting a good case for him...

Yeah there could well be some claims the whole proccess its a touch unfair here....

The RFU are very strict on this sort of thing.

We'd never pull some ex player who's been to one world cup and thrust him into the England coaching role.

Now can Declan Kidney employ Kirwan as attacking coach for Ireland please

Full story here:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/17235678

almost certainly won't be Lancaster judging by this.

Mawhis, Lancaster is already through to the next stage...Kirwan didnt even make the interviews.

It would comepltly fly in the face of the coments from Badger and Bodger to appoint him though.

Well when they say he´s not experienced they don´t mean coaching. He´s done his time with Italy and Japan. What they mean is that he has no experience in dealing with a plonker who wants to undermine him constantly in his role as manager. It also means he has no experience in marketing or powerpoint presentations for furthering England´s image in the commercial world. Apparently these are the two most prized qualities the recruitment company are looking for in every candidate.

Not experienced enough?

Meaning he couldn't understand the job description and was honest enough to say so?


O'Sullivan and Mallet, meanwhile, did the bullshite and coughed up pleasing philosophical words like "going forward" and "Identifying connectivity pathways from player though to the consciousness of the National identity within the strict parametres laid down in inter-divergent aspects of game management right through to intercausality on the field of play itself"

I can do that says Mallet and O'Sullivan

Brilliant mate.

Well, Mallet is an RWC winning coach and did help Italy progress, with SFA in the way of a 10. That's impressive.

As for EOS, while the last couple of years of his time with Ireland were poor and he lost the fans & media, he is a good coach. And while not quite a disiplinarian, he wont tolerate any farking about from his players or allow them to be easy pickings for Poopie media types.

I´m surprised EOS isn´t going for the Wales coaching job.

Can we have Kirwan as our backs coach please - One of my all time fav players - absolute beast

If they had any sense at all they'd get Kirwan as attack coach and steal Edwards as defence coach

If they had any sense they´d be checking Kirwan´s family history for English relatives. Ashton needs competition for places to inspire him

RubyGuby wrote:Can we have Kirwan as our backs coach please - One of my all time fav players - absolute beast

I already called him for Ireland Ruby, back off

It's a shame he's out of the running. Whilst I have favoured Nick Mallet for the job I would have seen Kirwan as an exciting appointment had it gone that way. Can't see SL beating NM for the top job but would be happy enough for him. EOS is not the man for the job for my money.

debaters1 wrote:Well, Mallett is an RWC winning coach and did help Italy progress, with SFA in the way of a 10. That's impressive.

Mallett didn't win a RWC, and it's worth noting that in Kirwan's stint at Italy (prior to Mallet) he got Italy's first ever win against Wales and a win over Scotland (with Roland de Marigny at FH).

I'd have preferred Kirwan over Mallet, I think England needs its head to come from a backs background rather than a forwards. I feel he brings a more innovative and attacking style of rugby. His Italian & Japanese sides played good styles of rugby and punched well above the abilities of their individuals.

He may not have experience of coaching a top nation like SA, but Mallett's experience there was 12 years ago. That Kirwan can be discounted but O'Sullivan remain in consideration is ridiculous to my mind.

He said last year he would be interested as head or attack coach, so hopefully Mallett will take him into his team.

Kirwan is in charge of the Barbarians this year, so their game against England in May could be interesting.

This is when, in an unpredictable move, Dean Richards gets made England coach on the basis that:

1) he has proved he believes in the "win is a win" policy at any cost
2) he is actually a good coach
3) O'Shea is on the panel
4) this is a WUM post btw

Kirwan would have done a good job, how can they say that when MJ had no coaching experiance what so ever?

I sense this is going to be another farce.

HERSH wrote:Kirwan would have done a good job, how can they say that when MJ had no coaching experiance what so ever?

I sense this is going to be another farce.

Different head of the RFU. makes a difference. Now, I know zilch about this woollyball guy but if he's saying different things to the previous bloke, that's a good thing, no?

When i read yesterday that they wanted to interview Stuart Lancaster before the end of the 6ns. I thought that Mallet had ruled himself out.

But i thought before MJ decided to rertire that Mallet would not take the job, while Rob Andrew was still in the post at the RFU?

stlowe wrote:That Kirwan can be discounted but O'Sullivan remain in consideration is ridiculous to my mind.

Particularly given that Kirwan's Japan beat EOS' USA on all three occasions that they met. What's experience without form?

I don't think Johno did as bad a job for England as many make out but my bowels consitently create things with as much coaching experience as he had when first appointed!

Kirwan would've done a very good job in my opinion! More to the point Kirwan as attack coach alongside Mallet would've been brilliant (not sure he'd have gone for it though).

The thing is that THE RFU are going to go for a big name signing as coach when Lancaster has already shown he is the man for the job and has set about creating his squad. Mallett is a great coach but I dont think he is right for England.

I've always had a lot of respect for Nick Mallett and think he will do a fine job for England. But I do feel for Stuart Lancaster, who has come in with a clear plan to go with youth and develop. We've seen game on game improvement and it's been fascinating to watch. He's done amazingly well in what could have been an awkward place.

The BBC article seemed strongly to suggest that Mallett was going to get the job, largely on experience at the top level. If previous international experience is that important (and MJ's spectacular crash and burn suggests it might be) I hope SL has done enough with England to have somewhere like Georgia or China taking an interest. I think SL has certainly shown he can do the job.

majesticimperialman wrote:When i read yesterday that they wanted to interview Stuart Lancaster before the end of the 6ns. I thought that Mallet had ruled himself out.

But i thought before MJ decided to rertire that Mallet would not take the job, while Rob Andrew was still in the post at the RFU?

Rob Andrews current post is a diagonal move down from where he was. The new head coach reports direct to the top now.



Lancaster must still be in contention otherwise they wouldnt have interviewed him. I think people are getting a bit carried away on what a good job hes done, if the fixtures had fallen differently he wouldve got a lot less slack heading to Scotland with 3 bad defeats in the bag already rather than 2 lucky wins against sides England should beat and a home defeat. people wouldve been all over Johnson at this point, and Ashton got the boot after rebuidling England to their best performance in years.
In terms of what hes done though lancaster ticks all the boxes. The RFU have stated the intyerviews are to see what concrete plans the candidates have going forward. Theres a whole load of key words ( read greyghosts pee take article) and boxes they want ticking. So far Lancaster, and his team, have demonstrated they fully understand the challenges they have with a raw squad and poor morale.
Thats very much at odds with whats been said the Kirwan though.

I've got no problem with Mallett as a coach, but I still go back to my feelings that the big Rugby nations should have their own countrymen as head coach/manager. An Englishman for England, a South African for SA, and so on. They are part of the team just as the players.

doctor_grey wrote:I've got no problem with Mallett as a coach, but I still go back to my feelings that the big Rugby nations should have their own countrymen as head coach/manager. An Englishman for England, a South African for SA, and so on. They are part of the team just as the players.

Just as well for Lancaster that Scotland didnt nominate their under 20's as their A team then....

Its a good opoint though, Wales are cheating by employing Gatland and Edwards. Moral victors.

But Lancaster IS experienced enough???

I would have thought any conversations/negotiations with the headhunters & Kirwan should have been confidential.
I'm surprised Kirwan has come out with possible reasons why he was rejected - sour grapes?

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:I would have thought any conversations/negotiations with the headhunters & Kirwan should have been confidential.
I'm surprised Kirwan has come out with possible reasons why he was rejected - sour grapes?

Kirwan is a big boy and didn't get the job for reasons I'm sure he secretly finds laughable.... He owes the RFU nothing by keeping what goes on in the boardroom in the boardroom. So you suggest it was best he kept his mouth shut about the reasons so that the RFU could use another corporate lingo lie to suggest why he wasn't chosen?

"We had a long discussion with John and he didn't feel we offered him the best platform that would coincide with his continuing career aspirations. We are disappointed he didn't feel this was the right time to become English Head coach but we wish him well in his future coaching career."

Nice and vague...but it's still lies.

I see Wayne Smith is not yet out of the mix...

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/international/6520259/England-may-rejig-date-to-secure-Wayne-Smith

Perfect man for the job being the consumate analyst and AB attack coach...plus he brings a wealth of inside information on how the AB's would have dealt with and won against most sides. Invaluable - even as a resource as it would still take almost a 'revolution' in English Rugby to accommodate the risk he'd be asking in terms of change.

SecretFly wrote:

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:I would have thought any conversations/negotiations with the headhunters & Kirwan should have been confidential.
I'm surprised Kirwan has come out with possible reasons why he was rejected - sour grapes?

Kirwan is a big boy and didn't get the job for reasons I'm sure he secretly finds laughable.... He owes the RFU nothing by keeping what goes on in the boardroom in the boardroom. So you suggest it was best he kept his mouth shut about the reasons so that the RFU could use another corporate lingo lie to suggest why he wasn't chosen?

"We had a long discussion with John and he didn't feel we offered him the best platform that would coincide with his continuing career aspirations. We are disappointed he didn't feel this was the right time to become English Head coach but we wish him well in his future coaching career."

Nice and vague...but it's still lies.

He wasnt interviewed by the RFU he was interviewed by the headhunters

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:I would have thought any conversations/negotiations with the headhunters & Kirwan should have been confidential.
I'm surprised Kirwan has come out with possible reasons why he was rejected - sour grapes?

Kirwan is a big boy and didn't get the job for reasons I'm sure he secretly finds laughable.... He owes the RFU nothing by keeping what goes on in the boardroom in the boardroom. So you suggest it was best he kept his mouth shut about the reasons so that the RFU could use another corporate lingo lie to suggest why he wasn't chosen?

"We had a long discussion with John and he didn't feel we offered him the best platform that would coincide with his continuing career aspirations. We are disappointed he didn't feel this was the right time to become English Head coach but we wish him well in his future coaching career."

Nice and vague...but it's still lies.

He wasnt interviewed by the RFU he was interviewed by the headhunters

Exactly...under the guidelines given to the headhunters by their employers, the RFU.

I just think Kirwan's comment was a swipe at the officiousness of the headhunters. Afterall, isn't that what English administrators are trying to escape, the concept of there being row upon row of trim suits with grand titles but no real practical direction that leads to success on the field? Telling a man of Kirwan's experience that he didn't have enough experience, as a young man with far less experience is already taking England through the Six Nations borders on insulting. Kirwan just has that dash of SH straightforwardness and he told it like it was delivered to him.

+1 Fly

Kirwan owes them nothing and obviously feels that the whole ordeal was a waste of time and BS basically.

Come on over to Ireland John, you can be our backs coach

Kirwans time will come. Since he set the world cup alight in 87 he's done nothing but serve the sport admirably. Has never been afraid to try something (stint with League, coach overseas etc) nor front up to anything (his coming through and dealing with depression- now a supporter an advocate for others).

Once criticized as a prima donna outside Auckland these days seems to have unianimous backing throughout the country- rare to see a harsh word against him in the sometimes unforgiving world of forums and blogs all over the net- in his endeavours.

Does tend to focus on attacking backplay which possibly restricts his chances as an international head coach.

Saw him on an informal sport show here during the world cup and good to see the fun loving side of the old Kirwan having a good old yarn as he does tend to look a little serious these days.

eirebilly wrote:+1 Fly

Kirwan owes them nothing and obviously feels that the whole ordeal was a waste of time and BS basically.

Come on over to Ireland John, you can be our backs coach

I wonder is he in experimental talks with Ireland about that backs job? I've always liked him. He certainly might add a touch of pizazz to the present ingredients, even in attitude. I can't imagine he'd settle for yawning first halves sprinkled with cups of tea and biscuits.....

John Kirwan, to me, has always been the model proffesional. Whether it be coaching or playing. Genuine guy who loves the game to bits.

He also tells the dirtiest of jokes