Clev vs Krasniqi, Albert Hall, April 28th

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Has this already been done? I'd LOVE to go to the Albert Hall but not for this. No way.

Sukhotsky would be a good fight for Cleverly as he is a step up

I don't even watch clev fights at the mo, just bet pts win and be done with it ha

Is the guys name Robin Krasniqi, that's not the same Krasniqi i was thinking about. What a Flip joke Nathan is.

Nico the gman wrote:Is it any wonder Hatton,Calzaghe and Khan all left Warren soon as they got the chance,Frankie boy ain't prepared to risk his world champion with anyone near decent.

Calzaghe was with Warren far too long. He was hardly in a hurry to get out from under Warren's iron fist and was very happy taking the money to fight nobodies

It's nice to see the WBO forcing Cleverly to fight his mandatory, even if I haven't the faintest idea who he (or the majority of the top 5) are...

It is getting embarrassing when even the WBO won't sanction a hand picked Warren opponent!! Cleverley has to wake up and smell the caffeine

Knowsit17 wrote:Sukhotsky wouldn't be bad, five times better than a Karpency or a Krasniqi at any rate. How will Frank worm his way out of this one?

Sukhotsky would be 88 times better than Karpency (ranked 89th in the World at the time)

And it would be a real struggle for Nathan too as Karpency was his toughest fight yet (his words)

http://boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=341586&cat=boxer

Lost a close decision to Braehmer but for my money has gotten better since. High end of Euro Level/Fringe World Level but WAY better than Krasniqi I would bet.

rowley wrote:

Nico the gman wrote:Is it any wonder Hatton,Calzaghe and Khan all left Warren soon as they got the chance,Frankie boy ain't prepared to risk his world champion with anyone near decent.

Not sure Calzaghe is the best example, he was with Frank for over 10 years and around 20 defences, not sure how other folk define as soon as they get chance but think you're stretching the term with Joe.

Get the chance to leave is when you are no longer contractually obligated to fight for that promoter.

Calzaghe went over to the US and fought a faded RJJ and Bhop as soon as he left Warren,many feel Calzaghe should have been taking these fights years before instead of Warren protecting his cash cow.

Not turning this into a Calzaghe thread because I rate Joe very highly and believe but for Warren Joe would have cemented his legacy in the US, he was certainly more than capable.

Sukhotsky is very good and would represent a proper world title defence, get passed such a defence and Nathan deserves to be regarded as a world champion. Fight Krasniki and he's rightly regarded as a joke. Enough is enough, time to fight someone decent.

Calzaghe was still with Warren for the Hopkins bout - one of the few meaningful bouts he delivered to Joe.

I don't for a single second believe that forty-five fights in to his forty-six fight professional career was the earlierst he could have left Warren as you claim, Nico - sorry.

What're the odds Clev/Warren will vacate rather than fight Sukhotsky? That's what I'm wondering in the face of these developments.

Won't hold my breathe until the night of the fight I think.

88Chris05 wrote:Calzaghe was still with Warren for the Hopkins bout - one of the few meaningful bouts he delivered to Joe.

I don't for a single second believe that forty-five fights in to his forty-six fight professional career was the earlierst he could have left Warren as you claim, Nico - sorry.

I believe the Hop fight was after he left Warren. But he started his career under the guidance of Mickey Duff.

Nah, I think Warren will want Clev to outdo Joe in the amount of defences.

azania wrote:

88Chris05 wrote:Calzaghe was still with Warren for the Hopkins bout - one of the few meaningful bouts he delivered to Joe.

I don't for a single second believe that forty-five fights in to his forty-six fight professional career was the earlierst he could have left Warren as you claim, Nico - sorry.

I believe the Hop fight was after he left Warren. But he started his career under the guidance of Mickey Duff.

He was with Warren through the BHop fight, also the split only came due to Joe not receiving money for ghe fight did it not?

Calzaghe split with Warren after the Hopkins fight. Basically Warren claimed he and Joe had a "verbal" agreement that Warren would promote the Jones fight but Calzaghe cut him loose. Warren withheld some of the money owed to him for the Hopkins fight as a result and it went to court.

Didnt Warren file for bankruptcy or something daft?

The court ruled that Calzaghe had been persuaded to sign contracts by Warren while under duress and dehydrated,and therefore ruled in Calzaghes favour.

In fairness to Calzaghe I don't think any one of his fights were as bad as what Cleverly is dishing up. Even Tocker Pudwill can be explained away as this was a last minute sub of a sub for Thomas Tate who was a decent fighter.

Cleverly and Warren are actually choosing these fights and that's the worrying aspect for me.

AlexHuckerby wrote:Didnt Warren file for bankruptcy or something daft?

Warren had three companies I believe Alex, when it was clear the judge looked likely to rule in Joe's favour Warren moved all the assets out of the company that owed Joe over to his other companies so as soon as the judge said Sports Network Europe or whatever they were called owed Joe £1.8 he said the company does not have it and as it had no assets there was nothing that could be sold off to pay him and the company was liquidated, with Warren not really missing a beat because he still had his other two businesses, may be wrong but think this is what happened, lovely really.

Super D Boon wrote:In fairness to Calzaghe I don't think any one of his fights were as bad as what Cleverly is dishing up. Even Tocker Pudwill can be explained away as this was a last minute sub of a sub for Thomas Tate who was a decent fighter.

Cleverly and Warren are actually choosing these fights and that's the worrying aspect for me.

I dunno, there were some really poor ones. Mrtchyian, Ashira, McIntyre, Thornberry etc

rowley wrote:

AlexHuckerby wrote:Didnt Warren file for bankruptcy or something daft?

Warren had three companies I believe Alex, when it was clear the judge looked likely to rule in Joe's favour Warren moved all the assets out of the company that owed Joe over to his other companies so as soon as the judge said Sports Network Europe or whatever they were called owed Joe £1.8 he said the company does not have it and as it had no assets there was nothing that could be sold off to pay him and the company was liquidated, with Warren not really missing a beat because he still had his other two businesses, may be wrong but think this is what happened, lovely really.

Those clever lawyers are worth every penny, talkabout finding a loophole.

I can't be arrised to look them up but I'm sure Ashira was a former middleweight world title challenger, Mrchyian was WBO number 1 mandatory , don't know about the other two but not sure they were as bad as Karpency. People forget give or take a few total cans JC actually fought some highly decent names too. Meanwhile, Clev's record is starting to look like the Light Heavyweight version of MArco Huck's.

rowley wrote:

AlexHuckerby wrote:Didnt Warren file for bankruptcy or something daft?

Warren had three companies I believe Alex, when it was clear the judge looked likely to rule in Joe's favour Warren moved all the assets out of the company that owed Joe over to his other companies so as soon as the judge said Sports Network Europe or whatever they were called owed Joe £1.8 he said the company does not have it and as it had no assets there was nothing that could be sold off to pay him and the company was liquidated, with Warren not really missing a beat because he still had his other two businesses, may be wrong but think this is what happened, lovely really.

Bloody cheapskate

Super D Boon wrote:I can't be arrised to look them up but I'm sure Ashira was a former middleweight world title challenger, Mrchyian was WBO number 1 mandatory , don't know about the other two but not sure they were as bad as Karpency. People forget give or take a few total cans JC actually fought some highly decent names too. Meanwhile, Clev's record is starting to look like the Light Heavyweight version of MArco Huck's.

For the whole round he lasted in it!

Its obvioulsy too early to compare careers between the two but just pointing out that Im not all that sure some of the names Calzaghe fought early on were all that much better than the the likes of Karpency.

Reborn-DeeMcK-Reborn wrote:

rowley wrote:

AlexHuckerby wrote:Didnt Warren file for bankruptcy or something daft?

Warren had three companies I believe Alex, when it was clear the judge looked likely to rule in Joe's favour Warren moved all the assets out of the company that owed Joe over to his other companies so as soon as the judge said Sports Network Europe or whatever they were called owed Joe £1.8 he said the company does not have it and as it had no assets there was nothing that could be sold off to pay him and the company was liquidated, with Warren not really missing a beat because he still had his other two businesses, may be wrong but think this is what happened, lovely really.

Bloody cheapskate

Bit petty suing over less than two quid but probably the principle of the matter.

Warren would have to be pretty darn bankrupt not to be able to pay under £2. Either he's got some miraculous lawyers or he's actually living on the streets nowadays.

If it's the latter maybe he can literally start organising bum fights to make up his fortune again. He's experienced is he not?

Think Warren and Arum should slug it out - Warrens got the youth but Arums got the weight.

manos de piedra wrote:

Super D Boon wrote:I can't be arrised to look them up but I'm sure Ashira was a former middleweight world title challenger, Mrchyian was WBO number 1 mandatory , don't know about the other two but not sure they were as bad as Karpency. People forget give or take a few total cans JC actually fought some highly decent names too. Meanwhile, Clev's record is starting to look like the Light Heavyweight version of MArco Huck's.

For the whole round he lasted in it!

Its obvioulsy too early to compare careers between the two but just pointing out that Im not all that sure some of the names Calzaghe fought early on were all that much better than the the likes of Karpency.

Well we'll agree to disagree. I'm not going to check Boxrec but if memory serves me correctly Calzaghe did okay in his early reign - obviously gained the title in far more impressive fashion and am I right in saying Robin Reid was an early defence, Starrie (highly underrated fighter who beat Clinton Woods and lost dubiously to Sven Ottke), Woodhall?

From the BBC


"The fight could go ahead as a non-title fight but if promoter Frank Warren wants Cleverly's fourth defence to be a WBO world title fight, the opponent will have to be changed to 30-year-old Sukhotsky."

If he doesn't face Sukhotsky he will be a ducker of biblical proportions

It would actually be as bad as Chavez Jr...

Sounds like Warren is trying to milk Cleverly as much as possible before inevitable defeat. Good on the WBO for stopping it from happening

AlexHuckerby wrote:It would actually be as bad as Chavez Jr...

Arguably worse Alex, Sergio is one of the best fighters in the world, whilst it in no way justifies it you can understand a guys reticence to share a ring with him, Clev's mandatory hardly has that kind of status.

Super D Boon wrote:

manos de piedra wrote:

Super D Boon wrote:I can't be arrised to look them up but I'm sure Ashira was a former middleweight world title challenger, Mrchyian was WBO number 1 mandatory , don't know about the other two but not sure they were as bad as Karpency. People forget give or take a few total cans JC actually fought some highly decent names too. Meanwhile, Clev's record is starting to look like the Light Heavyweight version of MArco Huck's.

For the whole round he lasted in it!

Its obvioulsy too early to compare careers between the two but just pointing out that Im not all that sure some of the names Calzaghe fought early on were all that much better than the the likes of Karpency.

Well we'll agree to disagree. I'm not going to check Boxrec but if memory serves me correctly Calzaghe did okay in his early reign - obviously gained the title in far more impressive fashion and am I right in saying Robin Reid was an early defence, Starrie (highly underrated fighter who beat Clinton Woods and lost dubiously to Sven Ottke), Woodhall?

Well if you take them at the equivalent stages in their career - Off memory I think his first 3 defences were Sobot, Thornberry and Reid. Pretty sure Reid would have been ranked as genuine world rated super middle. But Sobot and Thornberry definately were not. Calzaghe had a very poor ratio of ranked vs unranked fighters early in his career. Id say Reid and Woodhall might have been the only top rated super middles he defended against over the first 3 or 4 years of his career, and they would still be much less of a threat than the likes of Hopkins or Dawson in my view.

Ranked number 4 by the WBO?
What does he do, clean Frank Warren's windows,or summink?

manos de piedra wrote:

Super D Boon wrote:

manos de piedra wrote:

Super D Boon wrote:I can't be arrised to look them up but I'm sure Ashira was a former middleweight world title challenger, Mrchyian was WBO number 1 mandatory , don't know about the other two but not sure they were as bad as Karpency. People forget give or take a few total cans JC actually fought some highly decent names too. Meanwhile, Clev's record is starting to look like the Light Heavyweight version of MArco Huck's.

For the whole round he lasted in it!

Its obvioulsy too early to compare careers between the two but just pointing out that Im not all that sure some of the names Calzaghe fought early on were all that much better than the the likes of Karpency.

Well we'll agree to disagree. I'm not going to check Boxrec but if memory serves me correctly Calzaghe did okay in his early reign - obviously gained the title in far more impressive fashion and am I right in saying Robin Reid was an early defence, Starrie (highly underrated fighter who beat Clinton Woods and lost dubiously to Sven Ottke), Woodhall?

Well if you take them at the equivalent stages in their career - Off memory I think his first 3 defences were Sobot, Thornberry and Reid. Pretty sure Reid would have been ranked as genuine world rated super middle. But Sobot and Thornberry definately were not. Calzaghe had a very poor ratio of ranked vs unranked fighters early in his career. Id say Reid and Woodhall might have been the only top rated super middles he defended against over the first 3 or 4 years of his career, and they would still be much less of a threat than the likes of Hopkins or Dawson in my view.

I felt compelled to check Boxrec and it's clear Clazaghe's earlier work, whilst not being spectacular is far better nonetheless. Clev and the Germans really are taking title defences to a new found low that no-one before could imagine. Calzaghe beat Eubank a very durable Gimezez that Duran couldn't even stop, Starrie, Reid, both quality...Cleverly hasn't a single recognisable name other than a Commonwealth belt holder who gave him all he could handle.

It's night and day.

Super D Boon wrote:

manos de piedra wrote:

Super D Boon wrote:

manos de piedra wrote:

Super D Boon wrote:I can't be arrised to look them up but I'm sure Ashira was a former middleweight world title challenger, Mrchyian was WBO number 1 mandatory , don't know about the other two but not sure they were as bad as Karpency. People forget give or take a few total cans JC actually fought some highly decent names too. Meanwhile, Clev's record is starting to look like the Light Heavyweight version of MArco Huck's.

For the whole round he lasted in it!

Its obvioulsy too early to compare careers between the two but just pointing out that Im not all that sure some of the names Calzaghe fought early on were all that much better than the the likes of Karpency.

Well we'll agree to disagree. I'm not going to check Boxrec but if memory serves me correctly Calzaghe did okay in his early reign - obviously gained the title in far more impressive fashion and am I right in saying Robin Reid was an early defence, Starrie (highly underrated fighter who beat Clinton Woods and lost dubiously to Sven Ottke), Woodhall?

Well if you take them at the equivalent stages in their career - Off memory I think his first 3 defences were Sobot, Thornberry and Reid. Pretty sure Reid would have been ranked as genuine world rated super middle. But Sobot and Thornberry definately were not. Calzaghe had a very poor ratio of ranked vs unranked fighters early in his career. Id say Reid and Woodhall might have been the only top rated super middles he defended against over the first 3 or 4 years of his career, and they would still be much less of a threat than the likes of Hopkins or Dawson in my view.

I felt compelled to check Boxrec and it's clear Clazaghe's earlier work, whilst not being spectacular is far better nonetheless. Clev and the Germans really are taking title defences to a new found low that no-one before could imagine. Calzaghe beat Eubank a very durable Gimezez that Duran couldn't even stop, Starrie, Reid, both quality...Cleverly hasn't a single recognisable name other than a Commonwealth belt holder who gave him all he could handle.

It's night and day.

Well I think the best benchmark is whether or not these guys that Calzaghe was facing were actually top rated. They werent really. Starie was not quality. Maybe underrated, but he wasnt world class. Forgot about Giminez, but again nothing special.

Cleverly has had 2 defences of his word title. Both poor. But Calzaghe first two defences were both unrated challengers. Im not comparing their talents which are miles apart but I think the first 4/5 years of Calzaghes title reign might have seen him fight maybe two or three guys that were actually considered amongst then ten top super middleweights in the world. Thats pretty poor.

Cleverly is getting stick for not fighting world class fighters in the shape of Hopkins and Dawson which make Starie and Reid look extremelly weak by comparison.

Im not defending Cleverly per se, but I dont think his ambitions are vastly inferior to what Calzaghe was at during the same stage of his career. It was a similar set up - Calzaghe was fighting WBO guys that were not considered genuine top level fighters. Cleverly is doing the same thing.

Agree with you 100% super!

seen most of sukhotskys fights, and im pretty confident hes got the beating of cleverly. looks like warren agrees with me too. dont be surprised if he gives his belt up to 'secure a fight with one of the divisions big boys', of course only after hes dispensed of his latest no hoper. then watch the big fights pass him by, as he takes on enzo, bellew and a few more bums. i actually think frank knows the guy is limited and is protecting his 0

Cleverley hasn't improved for a long time for me, time to throw him in with the big boys to see if that will do it. He's either going stale or is not good enough.

calzaghe beat eubank for the title, cleverly beat kuzmienski, thats a massive difference.

This is absolutely shocking matchmaking if it's true, Kuziemski, Bellew, Karpency and now this are a quartet of abysmal defences.

Lance wrote:calzaghe beat eubank for the title, cleverly beat kuzmienski, thats a massive difference.

In terms of ability yes, but once Calzaghe was champion what did he do? His first few years were pretty much a case of Warren selecting WBO ranked opponents that were not top ten. He certainly wasnt put under pressure to jump in with an elite pound for pound fighter straight away.

Part of the reason I think Cleverly is being put under pressure is precisely because of what the Calzaghe/Warren blueprint was and people are fearing a repeat of this.

Calzaghe was a miles better fighter, but if anything this made the poor defences all the more unsatisfactory. I have slightly more sympathy with Cleverly because hes nowhere near as good as Calzaghe but is under far more pressure to face opponents that are frankly out of his league at the same stage of his career. His defences so far have been really poor. But I dont think the likes of Kaprency or Bellew are way worse or less ambitious that the likes of Sobot and Thornberry that Calzaghe was taking on around the equivalent stage of his career.

Im not defending Cleverly or Warren, but I se it as being not too disimliar to what Calzaghe did when he had won his title.

"Cleverly is getting stick for not fighting world class fighters in the shape of Hopkins and Dawson"

No. Clev is getting stick for not fighting ANY decent opponent. I don't expect him to fight either Dawson or Hopkins, but I do expect him to defend his world title against world class opposition who deserve a shot a the title. Time to defecate or get off the pot

Sky are reporting that Frank Warren is trying to work out a deal in order to set up this joke of a fight.

I see Steffan is posting on other threads but avoiding this one like the plague lol.

Wake up and smell the coffee Steffo, you got conned out of your money in his last fight. Dick Turpin wore a mask....Nathan wears gloves instead. Must be painful to be a fan of Cleverlys

bhb001 wrote:"Cleverly is getting stick for not fighting world class fighters in the shape of Hopkins and Dawson"

No. Clev is getting stick for not fighting ANY decent opponent. I don't expect him to fight either Dawson or Hopkins, but I do expect him to defend his world title against world class opposition who deserve a shot a the title. Time to defecate or get off the pot

Well yes, thats true to some extent, although I have read a fair bit suggesting he should be looking to fight Hopkins/Dawson/Pascal in order. I agree he should be fighting ranked contenders obviously.

But my point is that Calzaghe was doing something similar under Warren after he had won his title. Having checked, Calzaghes first 12 defences over a 5 year period were Sobot, Gimenez, Reid, Thornberry, Starie, Sheika, Woodhall, McIntyre, Veit, Brewer, Jimenez, Pudwill. Probably only Brewer, Reid and Woodhall out of those were genuine top ten rated super middlweights at the time I would think. Thats about a 25% ratio of fighting actual top ranked challengers over that period.

Calzaghe was a far better fighter than Cleverly of course, but he was being fed WBO ranked trash just like Cleverly is now.

I'm pretty sure I'm ranked top 5 with the WBO. If not then I can't be much lower than this Albanian cobbler, or whatever the hell he is.

Dear Frank Warren: is there any chance you could perhaps match Cleverly up against a boxer? That is, someone who spends more time boxing than they do delivering milk or fitting double glazing.

That said, I'm sure this bum will be Clevs toughest fight yet as he's a hungry tapir (not quite so dangerous as a lion) who has nothing to lose.

manos de piedra wrote:

Lance wrote:calzaghe beat eubank for the title, cleverly beat kuzmienski, thats a massive difference.

In terms of ability yes, but once Calzaghe was champion what did he do? His first few years were pretty much a case of Warren selecting WBO ranked opponents that were not top ten. He certainly wasnt put under pressure to jump in with an elite pound for pound fighter straight away.

Part of the reason I think Cleverly is being put under pressure is precisely because of what the Calzaghe/Warren blueprint was and people are fearing a repeat of this.

Im not defending Cleverly or Warren, but I se it as being not too disimliar to what Calzaghe did when he had won his title.

No this is not true at all. You seem to be missing the distinction between poor and plain damn well awful. Given Calzaghe gained the title in impressive circumstances, had Reid and the tough Gimenez as early defences it makes Calzaghe's early work a lot better and believe it or not I'm not actually saying Calzaghe's early work was great by any means. I am saying that Cleverly's early work is so bad, it makes Clazaghe's early reign look highly decent in comparrison.

I believe Cleverly is getting stick for fighting garbage plain and simple, don't think JC has anything to do with it.

Clev gets stick for the same reason that all protected "World Champs" do - he is not fighting decent competition and expects us to believe he is tip 4 in his division. He is not

Dawson - B Hop - Pascal - would crush him

Cloud - Diacaneau would have a v good chance of doing so and Campillo would box his ears off.

Clev - Fight someone!

Cleverlys first two defences have been rubbish, Calzaghe first two defences were rubbish. Both against unranked opponents with little threat and well outside the top ten in the division. Dont really see the massive difference myself other than Cleverly seems to be under more pressure from the off to mix it with better opponents. I still think the god-awful defences that Warren supplied Calzaghe with for large parts of his career has meant people fear a repeat with Cleverly which has exacberated the situation.