Scotland Squad for Summer Tour

First topic message reminder :

Only 75 days until the first game of the summer tour against Australia in Newcastle NSW (5 June 2012). I was thinking the other day about who’d be included in the squad and who would be left out. Robbo took 27 players on tour in 2010, so I’ve been looking at roughly 30 players for the tour given that it’s 3 games instead of 2, split 17 forwards and 13 backs.

Let’s start with the squad for the last 6N game

John Welsh
Ross Ford
Goeff Cross
Richie Gray
Jim Hamilton
John Barclay
Ross Rennie
David Denton
Scott Lawson
Euan Murray
Al Kellock
Ritchie Vernon

Mike Blair
Greig Laidlaw
Sean Lamont
Graeme Morrison
Nick De Luca
Max Evans
Stuart Hogg
Chris Cusiter
Ruaridh Jackson
Jack Cuthbert

Now this needs some revision as there are a few players who shouldn’t be taken on tour, plus a few will be returning form injury and some youngsters who should be given the chance to prove themselves. I’ve always said that we need these young guys to have 20+ caps by the time the next WC comes around.

Potential squad additions:

Forwards
Kelly Brown (injured)
Al Strokosch (injured)
Rob Harley
Chris Fusaro
Ed Kalman
Moray Low
Alan McDonald
Stuart McInally

Backs
Lee Jones (injured)
Joe Ansbro (injured)
Rory Lawson (injured)
Harry Leonard
Matt Scott
Tom Brown
Jim Thompson
Tim Visser
Duncan Weir
Alex Dunbar
Mark Bennet

So what do the Scottish supporters on 606 think about the potential squad. Who would you include? Any suggestions for players I’ve not mentioned?

I'm broadly on the same page.

I'd pick Harley ahead of McInally as back-up to Brown, and I'd pick Ford ahead of MacArthur.

In the backs I'd pick Ansbro over NDL.

I'm not a big fan of Kellock, and would never select him over Hamilton.

Yeah i'd pick Hamilton over Kellock any day. Since his move to Gloucester Hamilton has come on leaps and bounds. Kellock seems to be going backwards a bit and would say Ryder and Gilchrist are edging him at the moment.

Don't think Visser is available for the Australia game, think he qualifies a few days after that but will be available for Fiji and Samoa.

Having just watched Glasgow vs Blues i think several young players for Glasgow should be getting a go. Dunbar especially, I think him and Scott could be the fix for our centre partnership problems.

imagine a backline like this..

Blair
Laidlaw
Visser
Scott
Dunbar
Jones
Hogg

I think this should be the aim, to continue the process of blooding the newbies. I think De Luca is okay but form wise he's hot and cold, Ansbro is a bit more consistent in my opinion but I'd really like to see more newbies having a go, especially at 12 and 13.

Wee Chris Cusiter had a cracking game last night too !

21st Century Schizoid Man wrote:Wee Chris Cusiter had a cracking game last night too !

Absolutely. Take that, Johnny Beattie.

bsando wrote:Having just watched Glasgow vs Blues i think several young players for Glasgow should be getting a go. Dunbar especially, I think him and Scott could be the fix for our centre partnership problems.

imagine a backline like this..

Blair
Laidlaw
Visser
Scott
Dunbar
Jones
Hogg

I think this should be the aim, to continue the process of blooding the newbies. I think De Luca is okay but form wise he's hot and cold, Ansbro is a bit more consistent in my opinion but I'd really like to see more newbies having a go, especially at 12 and 13.

Would prefer Weir at stand-off, I don't think the Laidlaw experiment is the answer, with either Blair or wee Greig at 9. Like the rest of your backline, altho Maitland would complete it for me

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:

bsando wrote:Having just watched Glasgow vs Blues i think several young players for Glasgow should be getting a go. Dunbar especially, I think him and Scott could be the fix for our centre partnership problems.

imagine a backline like this..

Blair
Laidlaw
Visser
Scott
Dunbar
Jones
Hogg

I think this should be the aim, to continue the process of blooding the newbies. I think De Luca is okay but form wise he's hot and cold, Ansbro is a bit more consistent in my opinion but I'd really like to see more newbies having a go, especially at 12 and 13.

Would prefer Weir at stand-off, I don't think the Laidlaw experiment is the answer, with either Blair or wee Greig at 9. Like the rest of your backline, altho Maitland would complete it for me

Weirs got to play better than he did last night. He was aimless with ball in hand, and wasnt creating any space for his outside backs. I couldnt care less that he had an off night with the boot, everyone does at some point, but his open play looked so Parksish I thought Dan was on the pitch.

Imperialbigdave wrote:

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:

bsando wrote:Having just watched Glasgow vs Blues i think several young players for Glasgow should be getting a go. Dunbar especially, I think him and Scott could be the fix for our centre partnership problems.

imagine a backline like this..

Blair
Laidlaw
Visser
Scott
Dunbar
Jones
Hogg

I think this should be the aim, to continue the process of blooding the newbies. I think De Luca is okay but form wise he's hot and cold, Ansbro is a bit more consistent in my opinion but I'd really like to see more newbies having a go, especially at 12 and 13.

Would prefer Weir at stand-off, I don't think the Laidlaw experiment is the answer, with either Blair or wee Greig at 9. Like the rest of your backline, altho Maitland would complete it for me

Weirs got to play better than he did last night. He was aimless with ball in hand, and wasnt creating any space for his outside backs. I couldnt care less that he had an off night with the boot, everyone does at some point, but his open play looked so Parksish I thought Dan was on the pitch.

IBD, I know that you are no fan of Meathead, but you don't half exaggerate!

After watching the Glasgow came I thought Jackson looked good when he came on. Weirs a good player but I think he needs to work on his running / passing game. Jackson on the other hand needs to work on his kicking game.

I think Leonard at Edinburgh will be the answer at 10 for Scotland who seems to be able to do everything you need from a flyhalf.

Wee Dunkie is only 20 so cut him some slack- he can and will improve.

Also do not quite get Jim Hamilton. Merde for Edinburgh and merde for Scotland. Seems one of the stupider rugby players too (viz. yellow v Italy) - does not get it generally ie play to a plan -Big Richie rescued him a number of times. Would not get a game on the bench for Glasgow with Gray, Kellock (excellent last night), Ryder and Campbell and even the big Dutch lad. We do not need him or want him in our side but he is one of AR's faves so he has to play!

21st Century Schizoid Man wrote:Wee Dunkie is only 20 so cut him some slack- he can and will improve.

Also do not quite get Jim Hamilton. Merde for Edinburgh and merde for Scotland. Seems one of the stupider rugby players too (viz. yellow v Italy) - does not get it generally ie play to a plan -Big Richie rescued him a number of times. Would not get a game on the bench for Glasgow with Gray, Kellock (excellent last night), Ryder and Campbell and even the big Dutch lad. We do not need him or want him in our side but he is one of AR's faves so he has to play!

You do not want him in the scotland side. Big difference. His yellow card aside, Jim is by far the best lock we have after Gray atm. Kellock talks the talk, but he hasnt walked the walk for far too many games in a Scotland shirt. Ryder, Gilchrist and Mackenzie should all be in front of him.

As for Weir, please dont mistake my comments as a dislike for him, i really do want to see him be great, but i just dont feel he is complete enough to wear the 10 shirt for scotland just now. "aimless" was a harsh word ill admit, but after almost ten years of an incomplete (to say the least) flyhalf who merely shipped the ball along the line without either attacking it himself or identifying spaces in the defence for his centres, it has really pained me to see Weir doing very similar things for Glasgow this season. I just dread his development stagnating and us being left with parks v2 for the next decade because the coaches werent honest enough with him to tell him that he has to add more to his game.

It brings me to a point i raised with my old man the other night after hearing the umpteen zillionth interview with a scotland player telling us how they were so close to winning certain games but for the bounce of the ball or whatnot. DO the players genuinely beleive this? Jim Telfer famously talked about how there are two kinds of players, the ones who look to make excuses at every turn and those who get up each morning, look in the mirror and tell themselves to improve. The honest ones, the ones who understand their limitations but are determined to eliminate them. How honest are our players?

ps. im not advocating creamys return, but his points still stands.

Ibd,

aye mucker agree with you re Wee Dunkie but not re Hamilton. Tom Ryder is producing the goods week in week out for the Warriors and I believe Gilchrist and Mackenzie are too over in the East. Al Kellock was tremendous of Friday -as a captain and a lock - the difference is if he had played the previous Friday we would have got a BP v Aironi. Hamilton is a lazy player who when he is not with it drags the team down viz RWC (Bath Buffoon's inexplicable decision to replace the team Captain sorted morale out for the Argie tie tbh ! ) and 6Ns.
Anyway Buffoon will take his favourites, out of form and others, on this tour because he is, apart from a total incompetent, a liar -'I will pick on form' indeed !

Don't bunch Hamilton into the "Robinson's favourites" category. He has been dropped several times under Robinson for the Borthwikian Al Kellock. Kellock is a fine trier, but Hamilton gets picked ahead of him on merit. He has been excellent for Glaws this season and was pretty decent for Scotland until the last game.

We need to stop being silly about these yellow cards. Yes, Hamilton and De Luca were silly, but sometimes good players make silly mistakes (Rennie got one on Friday, do we drop him?), it doesn't stop them from being good players.

If we are to focus on who we could call "Robinson's favourites" (i.e. players who seem to be automatic picks regardless of form), then for me it is Euan Murray, Jacobsen (this season), John Barclay, Cusiter, Parks, Jackson, Morrison, R Lamont and S Danielli. These are the players he seems keen to pick.

New word of the day is "Borthwikian".

A character that Dickens should have used, but didn't.

Borthwick would have been too boring, even for Dickens!

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:After watching the Glasgow came I thought Jackson looked good when he came on. Weirs a good player but I think he needs to work on his running / passing game. Jackson on the other hand needs to work on his kicking game.

I think Leonard at Edinburgh will be the answer at 10 for Scotland who seems to be able to do everything you need from a flyhalf.

Agreed! With Laidlaw at 9 maybe?

I think Schitz has been harsh on Hamilton. He has been pretty good the last few times for Scotland. He was fantastic in the RWC and has been consistantly good for Glaws all season.

Kellock has never let anyone down for Scotland but I feel he can sometimes be weaker at Scrum time. Granted Glasgow's Scrum hammerd Cardiff but to be fair Cardiff were in disarray at best come scrum time.

The issue with Kellock is really his ball carrying for me. He always ends up crabbing sideways and getting isolated, and he's far more comfortable letting others do the ball carrying whilst he monitors the ruck area. For a man his size he doesn't really put it about enough.

He's very good at pointing and shouting, and particularly strong at standing around the ruck, but in terms of raw aggression and influence I prefer Hamilton. The opposition always know it when's he's about. More powerful in the set piece and whilst he may not his as many rucks as Kellock, when he's there he brings more to the party.

It's about to be quite a hotly contested shirt I think. Ryder and Swinson will put in solid claims next season, and Gilchrist and Campbell both look to have something about them. Then there's Fraser MacKenzie as well, a good player in open play.

funnyExiledScot wrote:The issue with Kellock is really his ball carrying for me. He always ends up crabbing sideways and getting isolated, and he's far more comfortable letting others do the ball carrying whilst he monitors the ruck area. For a man his size he doesn't really put it about enough.

He's very good at pointing and shouting, and particularly strong at standing around the ruck, but in terms of raw aggression and influence I prefer Hamilton. The opposition always know it when's he's about. More powerful in the set piece and whilst he may not his as many rucks as Kellock, when he's there he brings more to the party.

It's about to be quite a hotly contested shirt I think. Ryder and Swinson will put in solid claims next season, and Gilchrist and Campbell both look to have something about them. Then there's Fraser MacKenzie as well, a good player in open play.

+1

He's not known as the Ruck Inspector for nothing!

To be fair to Kellock, he actually carried very well against Cardiff on Friday night. Ryan Wilson did extremely well also albeit at No 8.