Sarries vs Quins

An absolutely massive game for both teams this weekend- first vs second in the league at what is basically a neutral venue in front of a massive crowd. Both teams have very different gameplans, though in their most recent matches these seemed to be reversed with Sarries playing some fast-paced rugby to win by a big margin and Quins winning ugly against Bath by taking their chances in a match where Evans' unfortunate drop-off in form and Wayne Barnes' pernickety refereeing counteracted the fine weather to lead to torrid display from both sides. Both sides suffered some poor games during the 6 N but have gotten back to winning ways. Now they will both have all their England players back and very strong squads out. This will lead to some very interesting battles all across the park- as the teams are not yet finalised, some of this is conjecture

15- A Goode vs M Brown

Both good fullbacks with solid defence and good attacking instincts and capable kicking games, all-round fullbacks if you like, Brown with 6 tries this season and unlucky to be behind the classy Foden at 15 for England, Goode one of Saracens more attacking-minded players. Both are definitely possibilities to tour SA, and with Goode arguably winning the head to head against Brown in their last encounter, I am sure that we will see some good rugby from both men

wings- Strettle vs Monye. Both men have played together in the Quins team of a few years ago, both men have represented England. Both looked like being "yesterday's men" not long ago, with Strettle struggling with injuries and form and playing at a club where wingers are not utilised as often as they might and Monye being played out of position and also out of form. Both have looked better of late, both have made some telling defensive contributions and both are capable of making great breaks and tries. On the other wing, presumably Williams will face off against Short (though with Wyles' good match last week I am sure he will contribute somewhere).

Inside Centre- Barritt vs JTH. Frankly Brad Barritt has been a revelation for England, acting as the defensive glue in the midfield. JTH plays a very similar game for Quins, probably worse at general passing but a bit quicker and better at (or more likely to use) "offloads". He looked out of sorts in January but hopefully that is better now and he can press for his England starting place. With Lowe probably starting outside him against either Farrell or Wyles, both centre pairings are defensively sound (less so if either Hopper or Casson plays) but Quins have more to offer, for me, in attack. The question is will Sarries let Quins get the ball and space to do so?

Flyhalf- Farrell/Hodgson vs Evans. Evans' form has dropped off of late, but I am desperately hoping that this big game is the one where he gets it back. Some people feel his talents have been over-exaggerated. They are welcome to their opinion, but having watched the man at the Blues, in his few games for the ABs and at Quins, I feel he is one of the most complete Flyhalves in the game at the moment, with beautiful kicking out of hand, for goal, decision making, game dictation, passing and running as a individual threat. He is a proven game winner and leader, though since that loss to Saracens in December something has been wrong, both with his boot and his ability to control the game (see Connaught). Farrell on the other hand is on the up and is a nerveless goal kicker, with great temperament (though not necessarily decision-making) in big games and equally deft as Evans as kicking out of hand. He lacks a running threat or the ability to fire up attacking moves but Saracens play to their strengths so this may not be necessary. He has also had a good debut International tournament and a brave defence. As does Hodgson, so no plans of sending Maurie and the other forwards down the 10 channel. Hodgson's nerve is a little more suspect as is his kicking under pressure, but he CAN get a backline flowing so he covers the fly-half skills that Farrell does not. If Evans is on form, I feel he is a better 10 than either but, unless something has changed this week, he is not so this will be a great battle to watch.

The back-row- Quins have Robshaw back and his work-rate, utter consistency in the tackle and leading by example are hard to overvalue. Together with big Mo, Wallace and Easter (still with a huge point to prove) the Harlequins back-row covers all bases, has a strong balance and is very competitive at the breakdown, especially as Robshaw has somewhat improved his breakdown game playing out of position for England. Saracens have lost two huge presences in the back row- Kelly Brown and Burger. Most other teams could not cover for this, but Sarries still look very strong with Saull (an out and out 7 who could be competing with Wallace for future England honours) and Joubert in the mix. I expect, but am not convinced, Quins to win in this area.

The front row- The second row looks to be Sarries' to me, but the front row and the scrum looks fascinating- Sarries' have Brits, Smit and George at Hooker, all class acts, one a likely England candidate at some point, one is one of the AP's standout players and a threat across the whole park, probably his team's most important player for me and the other has captained SA to a World Cup and covers prop to boot. Quins have Grey, pressing for an England tour place, very mobile in the loose but seen by many to be too small he will want to put in a big show against players of his opposition's calibre. Nieto and Gill are good scrummagers but Johnston's scrummaging has come on leaps and bounds as has Marler's (our scrum has looked to be a strength rather than a weakness since he has been trained by Rowntree) and the latter is an important player in the loose for Quins. He may also face up against Stevens, who currently holds the final matchday prop place for England but has looked less than convincing in the loose or the set piece and whose spot Marler will fancy.



The weather for Saturday is overcast but dry, with some moderate wind, with warmish temperatures of about 14 degrees, which will neither particularly aid nor detract from either team's style. I feel Quins will need to keep the ball tight in hand until an opportunity for quick ball comes, then pile the flankers into the rucks to let Care run it or get it the backs at real pace. Then they should aim to keep the ball alive with proper support and offloads for as long as possible (as we did back in Autumn) until a mismatch inevitably presents. Sarries won't miss upfront tackles often, their defence is too strong, but gaps can still be manipulated and once we are through I would hope we can finish our chances better than we did at HQ 3 months ago. Brown will have to be on it at FB to stop Farrell and Hodgson playing the territory game and if the real Nick Evans turns up, I think this is completely doable. Sarries cannot afford to shut the game down as they have done with so much success prior to the last couple of months.


I have my fingers crossed for Quins to win by 7 but my heart will be in my mouth as I watch this (bizarrely with a contingent of mostly Wasps fans) at Wembley. I cannot wait

Fair summary Jersey - unfortunately I am playing when this is on so will have to watch a recording on delay.
Looking forward to it though.

I'm going and I'm another Wasps supporter. Really looking forward to the game having never been to the New Wembley.

Lots of England fringe players on show. Too close to call for me but Evans needs to regain his form.

Smashing write up mate. Very enjoyable read.

What with the unfortunate news fro Sarries fans that Saul is out with a dislocated knee - we can really hope that Quins push on and dominate at the breakdown and at scrum time. That'll be odd won't it...! A Quins pack dominating a Sarries pack!

Hopefully I haven't mockered it....!

Wyddy

Please can it be a draw?

You wouldn't want 90000 people go home either elated or depressed would you?

Good summary.


Surely the title should say Saracens vs Harlequins? I know it's pedantic but it's more accurate.

People might be mistaken in thinking that it is a Harlequins home game. It's obviously confused one other poster on another thread already. Poor guy.

In my opinion I can see Quins doing well in the backrow but will struggle in the front five.

Is Maurie Fa'Savula not banned?

Wydnej I wouldn't understimate Will Fraser. His battle with Wallace will be interesting.

Will give more thoughts when both sides are announced.

Please can it be a draw?

You wouldn't want 90000 people go home either elated or depressed would you?

I'm with you Portnoy, end to end and three try a piece draw please.

Not so sure Beshocked, Wallace has been one of the few who hasn't dropped off in our team. I would have high hopes that he'll be able to come out on top of that little match up.

Front row I think will be fine as long as the ref is as lenient on Johnstons binding as Barnes was last weekend. Only worry I have is when they have Smit to bring on from the bench we have noone near that level to bring on if we get put in a bind.

Anyone know if Mo is banned or not before his hearing?

Waiting for the teams eagerly...

Wyddy

Saracens team vs Harlequins

15 Alex Goode
14 David Strettle
13 Chris Wyles
12 Owen Farrell
11 James Short
10 Charlie Hodgson
9 Neil de Kock
1 Matt Stevens
2 Schalk Brits
3 Carlos Nieto
4 Steve Borthwick (c)
5 Mouritz Botha
6 Justin Melck
7 Will Fraser
8 Ernst Joubert

16 Jamie George
17 Mako Vunipola
18 Petrus du Plessis
19 George Kruis
20 Jackson Wray
21 Richard Wigglesworth
22 Adam Powell
23 Michael Tagicakibau

Harlequins team to face Saracens

15. Mike Brown
14. Tom Williams
13. George Lowe
12. Jordan Turner-Hall
11. Ugo Monye
10. Nick Evans
9 Danny Care


1. Joe Marler
2. Rob Buchanan
3. James Johnston
4. Ollie Kohn
5. George Robson
6. Maurie Fa’asavalu
7. Chris Robshaw (C)
8. Nick Easter

Replacements

16. Aston Croall
17. Mark Lambert
18. Will Collier
19. Tomas Vallejos
20. Tom Guest
21. Karl Dickson
22. Rory Clegg
23. Ross Chisholm

I take it back, we may be in a bit of trouble up front...

Wyddy

Good to see Wigglesworth back after injury for Sarries.

Quins - well, they just cant match that bench.
Where is Grey and Hopper and Wallace - those 3 would have definately been in the 23, presumably out with injury.
Need a big game from the tight 5 and the backs simply have to click or we are in big trouble.

This is a very good write up ahead of what should be an ethralling game, however, there is a glaring omission which I am surprised no one has commented on. Who are the X-Factor rejects going to be singing at the concert, sorry game?!

Seriously though, this should be a real cracker and a dress rehearsal for late in May...

Ah - Grey was injured in training yesterday aparently.

Is Right Said Fred making another appearance?

Some big asks for young players. Farrell is going to have to display a lot of leadership in running the defence from 12 in the way that Barritt has been so brilliant at. Rob Buchanan being thrown in at the deep end against a very experienced Sarries pack with lineout leader Borthwick no doubt wanting to make it known that he is still one of the top lineout captains by putting upstart Robson in his place.

Stevens at loosehead is a potential weakness (can't believe Sarries didn't bid higher for Mullan) that Quins might be able to exploit but they will need to do that quickly as there's a lot of bulk in the Sarries pack to push with a very experienced tighthead in Nieto who will ask a lot of questions of Marler. I'd expect Sarries to go to town on the Quins lineout because denying Quins quick ball there will seriously hurt their backs.

This should be a close one, come on 3 try a piece draw!

Crap! Croall, Lambert and Collier on the bench?! That is a seriously week replacement frontrow. I hope we wont need to bring them on and can just play the starters for the full 80.

Good write up Chequered!

We need to target their midfield, the Farrell/Wyles combo can't be as watertight as Barritt/Powell and if we get the props, backrow and JTH running running running in to them thenwe could get some good yardage.

Can't afford to kick the ball too much to them either as I can't see us winning a kicking battle.

Can not wait for match, just a shame I no longer have sky so will have to try to find a pub in Guildford to watch it...

MCFly are the headliners and not a bad one to be honest.

Sam you might not like Stevens but he is experienced.

It's a very experienced Saracens front five and nice to have Botha added bulk back in there to push.

Is Hopper injured? If not then I am a bit gutted he's not in there, and where is Wallace??

Quins need to get the hit in the scrums, when Johnston gets that hit he's unstoppable but if he's a bit slow then all his lack of technique gets highlighted.

In my opinion Saracens have superiority in the front five and half backs.

I say halfbacks simply because De Kock and Hodgson have been in excellent form recently whereas Evan's form has been patchy and Care's form is hardly going to be helped by his ongoing woes.

Harlequins have the advantage in the backrow and centres. Both because they have more experience and familiarity.

Possibly slight edge to Saracens in back three.

Just shows it going to be a tough game.

beshocked wrote:Good summary.


Surely the title should say Saracens vs Harlequins? I know it's pedantic but it's more accurate.

I have changed the title to properly reflect the home and away teams

Sam you might not like Stevens but he is experienced

He is experienced, but he is still an average scrummager on both sides of the scrum. Good choice to utilise him in this game as he is good in the loose and should nick a couple of turnovers for Sarries. I can see him giving away a couple of penalties when man mountain Johnston hits in the scrum as Stevens is pretty poor technically and in terms of brute force will lose out, if he can hold Johnston then Sarries will be fine as Nieto is technically very good and will pressure Marler.

ChequeredJersey wrote:

beshocked wrote:Good summary.


Surely the title should say Saracens vs Harlequins? I know it's pedantic but it's more accurate.

I have changed the title to properly reflect the home and away teams

Thanks Chequered Jersey

A surprising number of empty seats for a 92000 sellout.

JTH try against the initial play. Evans con. 7-0 4.30mins

Good try but a suggestion of being a final forward pass.

More than a suggestion I think but they're let go several times in most games. No more forward than most little pop offloads. That's even if you get an agreement of what 'forward' is.

Portnoy wrote:A surprising number of empty seats for a 92000 sellout.

People are getting drinks in time for McFly at half time...

You have to say that there is only one side playing rugby.

And that's not the one that Barnes is supporting.

9-14 to Quins.

How can Melck turn over the ball legally if he's on his knees? Given how pedantic the ref has been on offsides I'm surprised he let it go.

Portnoy wrote:You have to say that there is only one side playing rugby.
And that's not the one that Barnes is supporting.

9-14 to Quins.

That's just not true, both sides have been attacking and creating chances from the off.

Lovely 2nd try for Quins. Made strides with every phase, simple rugby.

de Kock has been terrible.

Evans off and Clegg on. I though Evans was limping a little when he walked off at half time

Well it's a good job Johnson is such a good scrummager (even though he's the top penalised prop) to compensate for Marler's poor scrummaging.

HongKongCherry wrote:

Portnoy wrote:A surprising number of empty seats for a 92000 sellout.

People are getting drinks in time for McFly at half time...

Have all the McFly fans gone home HKC?

Second half seems to have even more empty seats.

83700 attendance (or something like that)

Quins pack showing they aren't all about flashy backs.

Good game Quins did very well to hold on .

Cracking finish to the game. Superb defence by Quins. Felt Sarries suffered from their backrow injuries throughout, Quins were on top in the forwards, particularly at the breakdown.

ref spoilt that game in places. Also did anyone see Brits punch at 55 mins, he also kept popping up a few times which the ref didnt notice.

Cracking game though and well done to sarries for making what looked like a good day out.

nathan wrote:ref spoilt that game in places. Also did anyone see Brits punch at 55 mins, he also kept popping up a few times which the ref didnt notice.

Cracking game though and well done to sarries for making what looked like a good day out.

'Popping up' itself isn't an offence (it only requires a reset), driving up or losing your bind in 'popping up' is.

niwatts wrote:

nathan wrote:ref spoilt that game in places. Also did anyone see Brits punch at 55 mins, he also kept popping up a few times which the ref didnt notice.

Cracking game though and well done to sarries for making what looked like a good day out.

'Popping up' itself isn't an offence (it only requires a reset), driving up or losing your bind in 'popping up' is.

ah right, didnt know that. thanks!

niwatts wrote:

nathan wrote:ref spoilt that game in places. Also did anyone see Brits punch at 55 mins, he also kept popping up a few times which the ref didnt notice.

Cracking game though and well done to sarries for making what looked like a good day out.

'Popping up' itself isn't an offence (it only requires a reset), driving up or losing your bind in 'popping up' is.

At last someone else who knows the laws, and doesn't think that popping up is a penalty every time!!

Also Brown maybe in trouble as it looked like he tipped strettle, this was when strettle was off balance and threw the forward pass, only caught it in the corner of the screen.

Would also like to have another look at the possible deliberate knock on

Knackeredknees wrote:

niwatts wrote:

nathan wrote:ref spoilt that game in places. Also did anyone see Brits punch at 55 mins, he also kept popping up a few times which the ref didnt notice.

Cracking game though and well done to sarries for making what looked like a good day out.

'Popping up' itself isn't an offence (it only requires a reset), driving up or losing your bind in 'popping up' is.

At last someone else who knows the laws, and doesn't think that popping up is a penalty every time!!

Also Brown maybe in trouble as it looked like he tipped strettle, this was when strettle was off balance and threw the forward pass, only caught it in the corner of the screen.

Would also like to have another look at the possible deliberate knock on

i know which one you mean but i'm fairly certain it wasn't a tip tackle, his body came down level. (i.e his hips were below his head)

Well deserved win, well done Quins. Ref did his best to spoilt

Have to take my hat of to Quins, they knew we were going for the try and would turn down a kick at goal, so rather than concede the try would happily take the yellow card to stop it

niwatts wrote:

nathan wrote:ref spoilt that game in places. Also did anyone see Brits punch at 55 mins, he also kept popping up a few times which the ref didnt notice.

Cracking game though and well done to sarries for making what looked like a good day out.

'Popping up' itself isn't an offence (it only requires a reset), driving up or losing your bind in 'popping up' is.

Indeed, and quite often the side that pops up is as a result of being driven up, so they should be awarded the penalty opportunity.

In general, if there hasn't been a penalty offence and the scrum is all but over the ref just lets the pop up slide to avoid wasting time resetting.

The AR was staring at Brown's tackle on Strettle at the time and I think he would have flagged it up if there was anything in it.

EDIT in bold: you know what I mean

Good game, with lots of good performances. I've not always been Lowe's biggest fan, but he was excellent today. Marler impressed too - his scrummaging (which was never that bad), was very good today. Buchanan is worth keeping an eye on.

Garner is still relatively new to reffing Premiership rugby, but he had one of his better days today, even though he tended to favour Sarries imo.

Quins were offside a lot in the first 25 mins, but they got the message and stopped giving away easy penalties. They took their chances well and only conceded when down to 13.

A deserved win.