SAF-Please spend in the summer

Following united's poor performance in the derby last night, results against Wigan and Everton almost handing City the title, added to with the embarressment of exiting the champions league in the group stages to Basel, its clear, like last season United need to reinvest in their squad. Its a squad that is aging in key areas which is being exposed like it was to Barcelona. United cannot beat teams like City with a 38 year old Giggs, a 37 year old Scholes and quite frankly average players like Carrick and Park. So, here's my ideas as to what United can do in the summer.

Transfers-Out:

Berbatov
Park
Macheda
Owen
Scholes-retire
Giggs-Retire


Transfers-In:

M'villa (sp?) or Lass Diarra (Holding midfielder)
Gaitan-Playmaker, either as CAM or wide out on the right
Llorente-Big striker, good technical ability, gives an added dimension to our game and something to aim for for our wingers who enjoy crossing
Baines-LB for an ageing Evra
clyne-promising right back for future

It going to cost but its what united need to do imo to catch up with the best in Europe, otherwise we face a real possibility of slipping further and further away from Europe's best. People will say United should not panic buy in the summer. I don't agree with this panic buying. Its obvious to everyone United need investment, if it wasn't clear last summer it sure is clear this summer. With added players, the pressure won't be as much on promising talent like Smalling, Jones, Cleverly and Pogba to deliver suddenly when the old heads eventually leave. Oh and why on earth didn't SAF play Valencia against Citeh??.

We don't have the money and if we are honest the players you are suggesting are no better than what we have (aside from Llorente).

We need a dominant centre midfielder and have done for years and to decide who is playing at right back.

The squad also needs clearing out, the likes of Anderson, Owen, Park, Berbatov are just taking up space.

We won't be putting in a serious challenge for the CL for some time, but with a few additions we could win the PL back next year.

Can't be asking Fergy to spend it if the Glazers don't give him it. He would spend it in a FLASH if he had it. Smalling, Jones and Young have been expensive considering their limited talent. Glazers will tell Fergy to sell some first.

Personally I would be going for Martinez over M'Vila who is probably Arsenal bound of anywhere, if not Martinez then Vidal of Juventus who's had a fantastic season.

I would go for the following:

Martinez (25m) if not then Vidal (20m)
Hazard (25m) if not then Kagawa (15m)
Bas Dost (10m), Worth a punt, yes from the risky Dutch league but his height could add a different option up front especially with the wingers and wouldn't cost as much as others.

if not Martinez then Vidal of Juventus who's had a fantastic season.

Didn't Vidal only join Juventus in August?

Kagawa has refused to sign a contract for Dortmund so that looks in the bag..

Yernited should target someone who is of their current players calibre: Joey Barton.

Who do you support btw Josiah? I haven't been able to discern it from the drivel you've posted the last few days.

TopHat24/7 wrote:Who do you support btw Josiah? I haven't been able to discern it from the drivel you've posted the last few days.

ABU.

This thread is all a bit football manager.

I mean e.g.Hazard looks quite a good player, but will cost the guts of £30million, is unproven and where would we actually play him given we have some decent wide players already and I can't see us going long term to 433.

Josiah Maiestas wrote:

if not Martinez then Vidal of Juventus who's had a fantastic season.

Didn't Vidal only join Juventus in August?

Kagawa has refused to sign a contract for Dortmund so that looks in the bag..

Yernited should target someone who is of their current players calibre: Joey Barton.

Vidal did only join them last summer but already other clubs are reportedly sniffing around him after he's be a lynchpin in Juve's unbeaten season in Serie A.

Barton I actually wouldn't mind within the squad nowadays, certainly add a player with 'testicular fortitude' to the mix.

Ent wrote:

TopHat24/7 wrote:Who do you support btw Josiah? I haven't been able to discern it from the drivel you've posted the last few days.

ABU.

This thread is all a bit football manager.

I mean e.g.Hazard looks quite a good player, but will cost the guts of £30million, is unproven and where would we actually play him given we have some decent wide players already and I can't see us going long term to 433.

He's hardly unproven just because he plays in a league that isn't the Premier League, he was Player of the Year in France last year and Young Player of the Year the two years previous.

Who cares about Football Manager!!!!? What the hell have Man City spent the last 2/3 seasons doing?

Ive never seen Juventus as a club who sells one of their main assets.. they are the most successful Serie A clubs with 27 scudetto's.

Hazard to me is the invisible man.. ive only heard about him and never actually seen him play. I don't count youtube as "seeing someone play".

Hero wrote:

Ent wrote:

TopHat24/7 wrote:Who do you support btw Josiah? I haven't been able to discern it from the drivel you've posted the last few days.

ABU.

This thread is all a bit football manager.

I mean e.g.Hazard looks quite a good player, but will cost the guts of £30million, is unproven and where would we actually play him given we have some decent wide players already and I can't see us going long term to 433.

He's hardly unproven just because he plays in a league that isn't the Premier League, he was Player of the Year in France last year and Young Player of the Year the two years previous.

No need for pedantry, he is unproven in the PL - something Fergie has looked for in recent signings.

Ent wrote:

Hero wrote:

Ent wrote:

TopHat24/7 wrote:Who do you support btw Josiah? I haven't been able to discern it from the drivel you've posted the last few days.

ABU.

This thread is all a bit football manager.

I mean e.g.Hazard looks quite a good player, but will cost the guts of £30million, is unproven and where would we actually play him given we have some decent wide players already and I can't see us going long term to 433.

He's hardly unproven just because he plays in a league that isn't the Premier League, he was Player of the Year in France last year and Young Player of the Year the two years previous.

No need for pedantry, he is unproven in the PL - something Fergie has looked for in recent signings.

De Gea & Hernandez?

Hero wrote:

Ent wrote:

Hero wrote:

Ent wrote:

TopHat24/7 wrote:Who do you support btw Josiah? I haven't been able to discern it from the drivel you've posted the last few days.

ABU.

This thread is all a bit football manager.

I mean e.g.Hazard looks quite a good player, but will cost the guts of £30million, is unproven and where would we actually play him given we have some decent wide players already and I can't see us going long term to 433.

He's hardly unproven just because he plays in a league that isn't the Premier League, he was Player of the Year in France last year and Young Player of the Year the two years previous.

No need for pedantry, he is unproven in the PL - something Fergie has looked for in recent signings.

De Gea & Hernandez?

There are always exceptions and Hernandez in particular was a low risk signing.

If you look at our signings over 10million in the last 5/6 years they have mostly played in the PL previously:
Young
Jones
Smalling
Valencia
Berbatov
Tevez
Carrick

Nani, Anderson, De Gea (as you pointed out) being notable exceptions - though all cost under £20million.

You could also argue Hargreaves but he was a CL winner and very experienced.

Ferguson was burnt by Veron badly and I can't see him going towards £30million for a guy who, whilst is a talent, isn't guaranteed to be a success.

So, pedantry aside, do we think Fergie is going to go big on this guy and either boot out a pretty good player or change formation to accomodate him whilst we have gaping holes in centre midfield?

*coughBerbatovcough£30millioncough*

TSC wrote:*coughBerbatovcough£30millioncough*

What about him?

Well Fergie himself has admitted looking at him as well as Rene Meulensteen has talked up the possible transfer so it looks like there is something hopefully in the works.

Personally I would look to play him in the AM position, he's played there increasingly for Lille in recent months and have two deep midfielders behind him in a 4-2-3-1 formation which would still allow Valencia and Young on the wings.

He had PL experience and has flopped horrifically at Man Utd. Yes he was joint top scorer last season but 5 of them were against Blackburn...

*coughBerbatovcough£30millioncough*

Bargain he was (rofl), Spurs are hoping to do the same with Modric to Man U...

TSC wrote:He had PL experience and has flopped horrifically at Man Utd. Yes he was joint top scorer last season but 5 of them were against Blackburn...

You will not see me denying this, I think he was a terrible signing and couldn't believe it at the time.

The point is you take out the factor of not adapting to the league/needing a season to adapt if you buy players already experienced in the PL.

Hero I have seen those quotes, but I am not convinced Fergie will go to the money required.

As for going 4231 I don't think we have the midfielders for it, there is also the Rooney problem - I don't rate him up front alone and an AM in the role you are describing would get in his way. In much the same way he Gerrard and Lampard all get in eachothers way for England.

We have got to build round what we have and to me (I could be wrong) signing Hazard with our limited funds to play him on the wing ahead of some already quite good players whilst leaving a hole in centre midfield seems inappropriate.

Also I don't think he would be interested in joining us but that is another story.

Josiah Maiestas wrote:

*coughBerbatovcough£30millioncough*

Bargain he was (rofl), Spurs are hoping to do the same with Modric to Man U...

Please god no, £30-40 million for an attacking midfielder who doesn't assist or score goals...

Please god no, £30-40 million for an attacking midfielder who doesn't assist or score goals...

He is the Croatian Lampard...

Croatian Lampard he wishes, would that be the same Lampard who has scored 150 career goals?

Anyways, onto Hazard I'm with the camp that he isn't that great. Out wide he doesn't look to beat his man and get a cross in but rather tries to go inside. I don't think he would particularly suit how United play.

You don't need PL experience to succeed, but it helps... Papiss Cisse is testament to that this season.

TSC wrote:You don't need PL experience to succeed, but it helps... Papiss Cisse is testament to that this season.

Good point TSC, going further players such as Drogba and Essien were a success almost immediately in the prem. Does this show that players from certain leagues (In this case Ligue 1 and the Bundesliga) are better suited to the prem and thus adapt quicker. Or is it due to the type of player? Cisse, Drogba and Essien are all large blokes who are built like tanks. From that is it possible to predict who will be a success straight away, who will take time to adapt but will then be a big success and who will never quite adapt.

It did take Drogba 3 years to get over 20 goals in a season for Chelsea.

The majority of players take a while to settle in, there will always be exceptions.

The problem for United is that we only have Rooney as a top player at a good age.

The other senior pros in the team don't have 2-3 years for a young player to turn into a world beater.

True Ent, but Drogba did cause big problems for opposing defenders from day 1!

I think players from the Spanish leagues might struggle (David Silva did for a couple of months but Yaya Toure is massive so it didn't affect him too much). Depends on the build of players IMO. If you're solid then it helps to adapt quicker but again Vidic struggled a bit. And De Gea too.

Bundesliga + Ligue 1 are more like the PL than La Liga + Serie A. The thing is, until you sign the player you just dont knpw.

@TSC, agree there mate. Do you think a thread on that with every player signed from outside of the prem this summer on it. Make predictions based on how they play, the team they've joined etc on how we think they'll adapt?

Could be fun

Gregers wrote:True Ent, but Drogba did cause big problems for opposing defenders from day 1!

True, but so did Emile Heskey.

Drogba is a strange player, for all his obvious ability he has only managed to score over 20 goals in a season twice for Chelsea.

I think its partly due to how Chelsea play, with Lampard chipping in the pressure on the strikers is a lot less.

Whilst currently not having the midfielders I do think that is also the area that Utd will look to strengthen and that's why I put forward the likes of Martinez or Vidal (or the probably cheaper option of Javi Garcia), bringing in one of those would give Utd more grit in the centre which would allow a player such as Hazard to link up across the wings and through to Rooney.

Hero wrote:Whilst currently not having the midfielders I do think that is also the area that Utd will look to strengthen and that's why I put forward the likes of Martinez or Vidal (or the probably cheaper option of Javi Garcia), bringing in one of those would give Utd more grit in the centre which would allow a player such as Hazard to link up across the wings and through to Rooney.

I don't think we have the cash for that and you also still have the issue of Rooney not being a spearhead penetrating striker like a Drogba or Torres at their best.

surely a RB is a priority?

Mad for Chelsea wrote:surely a RB is a priority?

And LB. Evra's been ok but has looked really vulnerable against pace.

Would you say that Rafael/Fabio will never be good enough then?

Gregers wrote:Would you say that Rafael/Fabio will never be good enough then?

Either Manchester United can't coach or these 2 kids are idiots, never seen poorer positioning or less defensive nous from anybody.

Fair enough

Rafael is useful going forward but can't defend or tackle to save himself. Terrible in big games. I haven't seen much of Fabio but maybe a years loan would help him. Phil Jones for RB!

I would love to see Javi Garcia at United. Wouldn't be too expensive I would imagine and can be industries, gritty and tackle well, but, key for me is that he has a good technique, which all good holding midfielders should have for they themselves are under pressure from strikers tracking back. Also fingers crossed Darren Fletcher will be back good as new. We have really missed him this season, the sooner he's back the better, get well soon Darren .

We need a passing midfielder. This role of just behind the striker, dropping into the hole is Rooney's. He hasn't got the right type of game to play up front on his own, he likes to have the ball whenever possible, then make late runs into the box. We need a midfielder like an Alonso or Schweinstiger, someone who can dictate the speed of the game and spread the ball out to the wings, where people like Valencia and Nani will thrive. I have no idea or this man could be I don't know. I would love Bastien Schweinstiger but there's zero to no chance of getting him, it would be like us selling Scholes during the early 2000's, unless we offer them 60-70m, not going to happen. If we can get a passing creative midfielder and a holding midfielder then people like Cleverly and Pogba can be brought in gradually and then in the long term be the future of United.

We desperately need full backs however. The Da Silva twins for all their positive forward runs, have no concept of what defence and positioning is, truly shocking.

Unfortunately think Fletcher is done as a guy we can rely on to play the majority of games in a full season.

Agree with your other points though.

From what was doing the rounds last night Fletcher is about to retire unfortunately

Hero wrote:From what was doing the rounds last night Fletcher is about to retire unfortunately

Not surprised.

What a shame that is, I wouldn't be too surprised sounds like a nasty illness he has anyway.

Hero wrote:Personally I would be going for Martinez over M'Vila who is probably Arsenal bound of anywhere, if not Martinez then Vidal of Juventus who's had a fantastic season.

I would go for the following:

Martinez (25m) if not then Vidal (20m)
Hazard (25m) if not then Kagawa (15m)
Bas Dost (10m), Worth a punt, yes from the risky Dutch league but his height could add a different option up front especially with the wingers and wouldn't cost as much as others.

It appears you play far too much football manager, it's almost ridiculous and irresponsible to spend £60m on three massive punts. Vidal has only just recently joined Juventus so I don't think there is any chance of him becoming available.

Regardless, disagree with comments like this, Fergie isn't stupid and won't spend £XM when we don't have the funds available.

United do need a CM, but maybe he will look at home first with Cleverly and Pogba coming through the ranks. Only Hazzard is someone he's openly admitted to being interested in, but he certaintly won't spend £30M on him.

All Time Great wrote:

Hero wrote:Personally I would be going for Martinez over M'Vila who is probably Arsenal bound of anywhere, if not Martinez then Vidal of Juventus who's had a fantastic season.

I would go for the following:

Martinez (25m) if not then Vidal (20m)
Hazard (25m) if not then Kagawa (15m)
Bas Dost (10m), Worth a punt, yes from the risky Dutch league but his height could add a different option up front especially with the wingers and wouldn't cost as much as others.

It appears you play far too much football manager, it's almost ridiculous and irresponsible to spend £60m on three massive punts. Vidal has only just recently joined Juventus so I don't think there is any chance of him becoming available.

Regardless, disagree with comments like this, Fergie isn't stupid and won't spend £XM when we don't have the funds available.

United do need a CM, but maybe he will look at home first with Cleverly and Pogba coming through the ranks. Only Hazzard is someone he's openly admitted to being interested in, but he certaintly won't spend £30M on him.

Last season spent: 53m
07/08 spent: 62m
03/04 spent: 54m
01/02 spent: 57m

Utd have spent that level of cash when it has been needed, last year the 53m was spent on 3 players.

Funds wise it's been constantly stipulated that funds will be provided if they are needed.
Vidal has already stated that talk of a transfer to Madrid is flattering so it appears hes already looking elsewhere.
And as shown several times Fergie will spend 30m on a player if he believes he is worth it, Rooney, Veron, Ferdinand and Berbatov were all at the 30m mark.

Rooney and Jones are also two fairly big 'punts' he has taken, spending big money on both.

And of the players I've mentioned only Dost is a punt player IMO. Hazard has been consistently fantastic for the past 4 seasons in France, Martinez is regarded as the best player in La Liga outside of the big two teams, Vidal was fantastic in Germany and has continued that form in Italy where he's been essential in Juve being unbeaten in Serie A. Kagawa probably won't cost as much now as he's refused contract talks and Gotze is now approaching full fitness again.

problem is what can you do to get players when we have unlimited spending at barca and real!

something needs to be done and quick- I am all for a free market place under normal circumstances - however when barcelona is allowed to run loss after loss year after year , this loss is actually paid for by the rest of europe!!!!

Spain are being proped up by europe and we pay 40 mill quid a year. Barca get free money from banks(that is then paid back by state- which is being propped up by the EU)

is that right?

It is a bit fanciful all these suggestions for players who are unproven both in the PL and in CL football.

We have spent money in the past but let us be realistic, the outlay for the players mentioned will be closer to £100 million than £50million - with the likes of city and Chelsea also in the hunt for players like Hazard and Martinez should they be available.

You have also got to bear in mind the pressure on Fergies net spend, if he culls the squad a bit to raise some cash he will have to reinvest it appropriately i.e. not on just 1 or 2 big names.