PGA Tour: The Players: 17 Holes and an Island: Notes from the Ballwasher

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1).Well done Rickie Fowler; an adjustment in your putting grip has transformed your season. A T10 in New Orleans should have served as a warning that the change was working. Normally your superb driving and iron play would have been rewarded with, perhaps, a top ten at Quail Hollow, but you brought your short game as well and congratulations on your first win.
Are you now ready to step it up and truly become a rival to Rory McIlroy (a big head-to-head win must be a boost?), or are you destined to being a Jason Day for a couple of years? Lots of high finishes, no visits to the winners enclosure. As a partisan Englishman, I'd say a young American who can contend week in, week out, would elevate the PGA Tour in a way that wave after wave of bright young things have failed to do.
1a).Fowler's reward is tee-time with Tiger (and Mahan) on Thursday - Rory is with Phil and Stricker.

2).A word about DA Points. I've always liked Points' engagement with, and appreciation of, the galleries and even in the bitter disappointment of Sunday's defeat he found time to applaud the crowd surrounding #18. Driving for show (almost as good as Fowler and led the field in greens hit) was let down by the putting for dough department, 65th in the Tour's "strokes gained - putting" stat; don't think he made anything longer than about eight feet on the weekend until his par putt in the play-off.
And tragic that his only bogey for forty holes was on the 72nd.

3).Quail Hollow is apparently destined for a re-do of some of its greens in preparation for the 2017 PGA. And a redesign of the very funky (and not in a good way) short par-4 eighth hole. Phil has long been a critic of the QH greens but this is some of what he had to say Sunday about the overall Course design:
"Tee to green it's a wonderful challenge. It's just the way the holes are shaped, they're beautifully done. I think the bunkering here is some of the best I've ever seen too. It's not over-bunkered. It's not bunkers everywhere you look, it's really well done here."

4).Quail Hollow is a different challenge than this week's examination at TPC Sawgrass. I see Rory McIlroy is replacing his 5-wood with a 2-iron in an effort to hit more fairways, not to mention the right part of the fairway. Seems to me that neutralises his power, not necessarily his biggest asset, but certainly not one to be dispensed with lightly.

5).Look for golfers who fare well on Pete Dye courses to have an edge this week. Els has been vocal in his support for Dye's TPC, which led one to imagine some symmetry remembering his last two wins. They were achieved at Doral (a Dick Wilson course), week off, then Bay Hill (another Wilson design). Obviously Els played well in losing that play-off to Dufner at New Orleans - then a week off. Who knows, but I'm not suggesting he should lose another play-off!

6).England's Brian Davis crossed the $10M mark in official Tour earnings with his 9th place finish last weekend. Davis has had some success at the TPC, but also missed three cuts. Nevertheless, it's his time of year - 9 of his 19 Tour top tens, and a disproportionate amount of his loot, has been earned in April and May and it wouldn't be a surprise to see him have another good tournament. Congratulations to Brian for a fine career, almost invariably under the radar!

7).Back to TPC Sawgrass. I really enjoy watching "The Players" on the box, a terrific mix of holes with one of the best quartet of par-5's anywhere. But I just can't accept that the 17th hole, as fickle as it is and beyond the meaning of risk/reward, fits anywhere on the course in general, and as the 17th hole in particular. Of course, as Woods has said in the past, if it was on the front nine no-one would notice it. And it certainly shouldn't be the opening play-off hole.
If the hole is not blown up, I'd like to see a 3-hole aggregate play-off, the par-5 16th, the fart-at-a-wedding 17th and the always challenging 18th.

8).Logic would suggest Luke Donald should have a "Players" win in his career, and many of the Europeans have enjoyed good tournaments here.
But the same cannot be said about young Americans; apart from Woods, whose dislike of the course seems to grow year on year, there's no American on Tour under the age of 39 (the soon-to-be-forty Justin Leonard) who has won or finished runner up here. Blimey, even the English at The Open have a better record than that. Just.

9).All our yesterdays, Part 1: Loved watching the golfing greats' 3-man scramble from the Houston Champions Tour event last Saturday, the Big Three of Arnie, Jack and Gary Player "winning" from two teams from Trevino, Barber, Graham, January, Stockton and Littler.

10).All our yesterdays, Part 2: Hall of Fame induction ceremonies last night for Mickelson, Lyle, Alliss, Hollis Stacy and Dan Jenkins (arguably, but not to him, the best American golf writer, good mate of Hogan) offered a reminder of just how good a golfer - though clearly not public speaker - Sandy Lyle was.
Renton Laidlaw did the induction presentation honours for Sandy and reminded all of Seve's tribute when asked who he thought was the most talented European golfer:
"If we all play our best, Sandy wins every time."
Which made one think about John Jacobs' opinion about Ian Woosnam that, "De Vicenzo and Woosnam" were "the two most correct swingers I've ever seen."
It doesn't necessarily justify an annual Masters tee-time, but worth remembering just what talent these two close childhood neighbours brought to the sport.

I don't think you need to be fully fit to play golf Mac, Sounds like an excuse to me.

super_realist wrote:Whereas Woods is a prat who still thinks he's as good as he was.

I'm sure he would have reacted like Poulter, if he didn't have a team of people who tell him what to say in the media and who take proxy care of his twitter outages.

Id rather be a has been than a never was who thinks he is something special.

Mac,
Agree he'd be daft to play unless he's fully fit.
Don't know what the chicken was yesterday, and what was the egg.
Given his string of over-par holes, one wonders what the symptom was.
But he tried to play through injury last year, with no success - he certainly doesn't want to do the same again.
Having said that, his owgr safety net is disappearing fast - certain to leave the top 50 this week.
No longer an elite player by any definition.

That's it though Diggers, Poulter, like many people has had his quotes taken out of context before, and people think it's what he actually thinks all the time.

I'm sure he's supremely confident in his own ability just as all sportsmen are and have to be, even choppers like Jeff Overton, but I don't think he actually thinks he is better than he is and he certainly never says as much. He's bold, brash and opinionated, sometimes to an almost vulgar degree when talking about wealth, but his soundbites are more interesting or at least colourful/controversial than the wooden paint by numbers pre prepared soundbites of Woods/Donald etc. which they might as well not even bother with.

I'll give 10k to the first commentator that walks away from such a boring interview.

Incidently, if Poulter wins this, it isn't looking good for your prediction he'll be outside the top 50 by Christmas.

I dont think his quote was taken out of context, he genuinely thought he was going to be the second best player to Tiger. He made himself look a complete prat and his twitter outbursts dont do him any favours.
What you dont seem to understand is Woods would be quite happy if the interviewer walked away, he wouldnt care less because unlike Poulter he'd rather do his talking on the course and thinks all the chat is a waste of oxygen. He knows full well what a waste of time they are whereas Poulter likes nothing better than talking about his houses, his cars and himself. He is all about self promotion, look at me, buy my clothes, if he was any good I wouldnt mind so much but he is always being talked about for all the wrong reasons.
He wont win this week, Id be suprised if he made top 10.

Super

What dont you get about accepting the endorsement cheques?

These guys are hardly going to jeopardise millions of dollars so some numpty like you can hear them say something you qualify as interesting. They talk about their round of golf and that’s it. It is a pretty simple and pretty fair formula for golf coverage.

Why would you be surprised if he finished top 10? He finished 3rd (Bay Hill) and 7th (The Masters) his last two PGA events whilst he has finished 2nd @ TPC in 2009 and has finished top 30 in 4/5 TPC's, Clearly he likes the place.
Seems for once, he's actually playing well in America in Strokeplay events.

Mac, Westwood and Poulter are frequently candid in interviews, doesn't seem to do their endorsements any harm?
Woods in particular might actually gain more warmth from the public (and subsequently regain some of his endorsements) towards him if he didn't suck all the joy out of the room with his turgid, cold and humourless interviews.

Id be suprised becasue I dont thik he is good enough to consistently place in big events with strong fields. He has had his good finsh for a year, 7th in the Masters is a career highlight for Poulter.

super_realist wrote:That's it though Diggers, Poulter, like many people has had his quotes taken out of context before, and people think it's what he actually thinks all the time.

I'm sure he's supremely confident in his own ability just as all sportsmen are and have to be, even choppers like Jeff Overton, but I don't think he actually thinks he is better than he is and he certainly never says as much. He's bold, brash and opinionated, sometimes to an almost vulgar degree when talking about wealth, but his soundbites are more interesting or at least colourful/controversial than the wooden paint by numbers pre prepared soundbites of Woods/Donald etc. which they might as well not even bother with.

I'll give 10k to the first commentator that walks away from such a boring interview.

Incidently, if Poulter wins this, it isn't looking good for your prediction he'll be outside the top 50 by Christmas.

Agree completely

I don't like Poulter's obsession with his own wealth, but on certain courses, and this is one, there are not many better golfers in the world.

He'll have a tougher time this afternoon as the course dries out, but those seven strokes under par will be worth their weight in gold. Very interesting player to follow on the course, love watching him drive the ball.

kwinigolfer wrote:I don't like Poulter's obsession with his own wealth, but on certain courses, and this is one, there are not many better golfers in the world.

He'll have a tougher time this afternoon as the course dries out, but those seven strokes under par will be worth their weight in gold. Very interesting player to follow on the course, love watching him drive the ball.

I can totally understand why people don't like him, but if anyone is struggling with their short game they could do worse than look at the videos on his website. Very informative and interesting as he's a short game maestro. Something he rarely gets credit for.

Except his short game is the secret behind his match play successes. When he's in the mood, he never gives up.

Super, given that in your own words "there is nothing sadder than a grown man in a football shirt" how do you so readily accept Poulter?

I agree Hibbz, Grown men in football shirts are incredibly sad, and Poulter can be a complete pillock/chav/classless etc, however although I'm no fan of any particular golfer, he's one I have admiration for because A) I appreciate his game, B) Think he's under-rated and C) isn't a wooden media led robot.

I don't like all he does, but he does have a character and personality, something very rare in Golf.

He isnt under rated. He gets far more press than his strokeplay record merits, I think he is by a country mile the most over rated player in the game.

No chance, based on the last three years, Woods is undoubedtly the most over-rated, closely followed by Rickie Fowler.
Poulter has won more strokeplay events than Luke Donald remember.

I think he's utterly media led. Everything he says seems to be for effect. I doubt very much he has a personality of his own just says/does what he thinks will garner most publicity.

I probably agree that he's under-rated but again that's pretty much down to him because the substance will never match the "style".

Certainly can't argue with you appreciating his game though, different strokes for different folks and all that.

Poulter to win this thing? Not likely, but stranger things have happened.

I remember following his group for a short period at Oakmont in 2007. On one of the back 9 holes on Friday he was in very thick, ankle-deep rough. The only way you could see the ball is if you were standing right on top of it. He didn't just get it out of the rough, he put it just in front of the green, at least a 140 yard shot. Just amazing how precise these players can be.

Oakmont may be the most difficult course I've ever been on. Silly fast greens (all the time) and the rough is always up. I don't know how the members enjoy it.

I fully agree with you Diggers. Like Fowler, Poulter gets a lot more attention than most with similar achievements (from my observation). And while a fine professional, hardly an upper-tier sort of guy.

Agreed, he's not top notch in all aspects of his game, just better than Diggers gives him credit for.

super_realist wrote:No chance, based on the last three years, Woods is undoubedtly the most over-rated, closely followed by Rickie Fowler.
Poulter has won more strokeplay events than Luke Donald remember.

Rickie Fowler has done more on the PGA tour at the age of 23 than Poulter has done in his whole career. Poulter is just a European Tour flat track second division bully. Cant cut it in the big boys league Im afraid.
And Hibbz is right, Poulter creams his pants over the media, he is probably the most artificial creation out there in any sport. You'd have to be a complete sucker to not realise that him having his own clothing line and wanting to stay in the public limelight dont go hand in hand.
All fur coat no knickers. I like his shanks though.

Jesus, you really hate him don't you Diggers? I thought my hatred for Woods was pathological, your hatred for Poulter is much deeper.

Has Fowler done more? No.

Well Ive never wished him dead so I doubt my hatred is deeper, I dont even hate him, Id not hate someone I dont know. What I dont like about Poulter is there is nothing there to back up the chat...nothing. And suckers like you fall for it. More fool you.

super_realist wrote:Jesus, you really hate him don't you Diggers? I thought my hatred for Woods was pathological, your hatred for Poulter is much deeper.

Ah but given that it's painful to see those we hate being successful your pain must have been leagues deeper Super.

If Poulter would just organize his schedule and focus on the PGA Tour, I think he could easily become a frequent tournament winner.
But he's never going to be better than an also-ran on some of the more "muscular" tracks.
Wouldn't be at all surprised to see him contending this Sunday, this place suits him; wouldn't really be surprised to see him win.

Diggers,
I'm no sucker, I just think you are overly harsh on Poulter. It's not like he's a Jeff Overton with no tournament wins. He's won 11 times in Europe, once in America, was Rookie of the Year, has some credible major finishes (not many granted), has maintained a consistently high ranking throughout his career and a Ryder Cup record the envy of virtually every other player who has played in the event.

Yes, he's a loud mouth, loves himself, looks stupid and has a dodgy taste in clothes and is materialistic in a vulgar and fairly classless way, but strip it back, and 99% of golf pro's have had a far worse career than him.


Like I say, I'm not even what you would call a fan (it's a bit sad to be a "fan" of anyone when you are an adult) but certain aspects of his game, career and character are in my opinion, admirable and underplayed.

Must admit the comments about the Ferrari and his super flash house and the rank hypocricy of his comments regarding having a clear head now have wound me up about him. Undoubtably shot one of his best ever rounds yesterday, maybe he will prove me wrong but I cant see it personally.
I agree that he has had a better career than 99% of golfers, probably more, but he gets talked about (and talks) way more than the other 1% of which plenty have achieved way more than him.
I dont like Woods as a person, he is clearly not a particularly pleasant bloke and I cant say Id want to spen any time in his company. But I do admire excellence in sport and he has done some special things which mean I cut him some slack for the rest of his behaviour. I dont think Poulter merits the same slack being cut personally.

Really, Manners, etiquette and good grace cost nothing and you shouldn't be exempt simply because you have had a good career. That's a bit like a rowdy celebrity turning up at a nightclub and declaring to the bouncer "Don't you know who I am?"

Poulter and Woods have at times shown very little class, more often from Woods. there is no excuse or reason for either of them to behave like that. Success, or relative lack of, shouldn't define whether you behave like a gentleman or not.
I've never seen the likes of Ernie or Tom Watson behave poorly.
Look at Nadal, Federer and Djokovic, all highly successful, one more than Woods and they are far better behaved.

I didn't say I liked it, I said I could live with it because of Woods achievements. Poulter is a conparitive nobody.

Surely that shouldn't make a difference whether you are Bob from Arbroath or the Sultan of Brunai Diggers.

I am a fan of a few players. I don't see how that makes me sad.

No he should have better manners, what part of the bit where I said I didnt think Woods was a nice person didn't you get ?
I'm not defending Woods personality, him and Poutry are both prats. But for me Poulter is a prat who adds nothing to the game.

Super

You are nobody and have poor manners?

What does that say about you?

You said that you could turn a blind eye or at least "cut him some slack" to Woods behaviour because of his distant achievements in the game, even although he adds precious little to the game now. I don't see why anyone should have an excuse.

McLaren wrote:Super

You are nobody and have poor manners?

What does that say about you?

Mac, I have exquisite manners, whilst I'm certainly less of a nobody than you.

Back to the golf..... Great round in progress by Justin Rose. After a stinker yesterday he is 5 under thru 7 holes (started on back 9) 1 under & inside the cut at the moment.

Super if the world number 7 and winner on tour this season offers nothing to the game are you suggesting 6 man fields every week?

No, i'm simply saying he offers no more than anyone else in the top 50, it's hard to argue he just isn't another tour pro these days, in fact for three years compared to most of the rest of the top 50 he's offered less, except for those of a sycophantic nature who have posters of him on their ceiling above the bed and still think he is the "real" number one.

Luuuuke! Great Eagle!!

I'm a real fan of Luke's...Great guy.

princedracula wrote:Didn't start a Euro thread this week as I doubt there would be too much interest, so we'll give it a shout here...

I have lessons from one of the younger guys who have managed to get an invite to Madeira this weekend so have followed it a little more than I would. Tyrell Hatton won the EuroPro Q school and got some playing rights on the Challenge Tour from getting to the final part of European Q School (if not last two rounds). He has missed the cut having shot +5 but it does show just how hard it is out there. +5 is not awful but it puts him pretty much at the tail of the field. Hopefully all good learning for him. He seems to have had a reasonable start to his pro career.

Also interesting to see his clubs. His Dad showed me the 2 iron that he carries. Slight cavity and tiny head. All I could think when I saw it was how tough it would be to hit and how painful a miss hit would be!!

I also had a look at his stats for the rounds on the tour website. I assume that they don't keep everyone's as it says 0 fairways, 0 GIR and every round his scrambles were out of 18! I know they weren't his best rounds but...

Good to see Ollie Wilson at the top.

Good round by Chris Lloyd (67) after a bad finish to his first round (74). Hoping he makes the cut at 3 under. Currently in 4th on the CT & looking to get on the main tour next year. Claim to fame is me & my mate beat him in his dad in the semi's of the winter foursomes one year....although he was only 8 at the time!

super_realist wrote:No, i'm simply saying he offers no more than anyone else in the top 50, it's hard to argue he just isn't another tour pro these days, in fact for three years compared to most of the rest of the top 50 he's offered less, except for those of a sycophantic nature who have posters of him on their ceiling above the bed and still think he is the "real" number one.

Though he's had more top 5 finishes in majors in his 3 useless years than Poulter has had in his whole career. If Poulter was world number 7 now you'd be the first to bang on about it Super.

Probably because for a man of Poulters talent, number 7 would be a very good achievement, number 7 for someone like Woods who spent the best part of ten years at number one, is pretty miserable by his standards. So should we "cut him some slack" for his rubbish behaviour when he is so dreadfully underperforming or let him dine off his distant achievements and turn a blind eye to his poor on course examples of petulant child behaviour?

What you mean the way you cut slack to Poulter despise the fact that he would apparently represent a stack of things you profess to despise. He's a bundle of flash, crass, arrogant, football shirt wearing, media loving bleached hair chavness.
You let him off all these things because he makes the odd tweet. Bizarre.

Davis going nicely again today, Donald, Davis, Westwood and Rose about ten under par so far, Martin Laird a bit erratic but still ahead, Rory and Graeme struggling.

Faldo,
Rose was a very popular pick over here for this week; interesting to see Lee, Luke and Justin all so highly rated, yet Poulter leading and Davis on his heels!

What do you think the cut will be Kwini?

To me it looks like +1 maybe.

Diggers, I don't cut Poulter slack, if he's badly behaved then he gets stick, however, the issue is, that I think he's better than you give him credit for.
It's not a Poulter V Woods moral debate, both can be as bad as one another and can be equally unlikeable, I just don't see how you can turn the other cheek for one based on very distant career achievements. I don't cut either slack for anything.
I actually despise twitter, I've never used it, never read a tweet, not interested in anyone enough to follow them either.

Kwini,

Davis seems to do quite well around this course. Would be good if they were paired together (Davis with Poulter) with a late tee time tomorrow. I think they would relish that.

super_realist wrote:Diggers, I don't cut Poulter slack, if he's badly behaved then he gets stick, however, the issue is, that I think he's better than you give him credit for.
It's not a Poulter V Woods moral debate, both can be as bad as one another and can be equally unlikeable, I just don't see how you can turn the other cheek for one based on very distant career achievements. I don't cut either slack for anything.
I actually despise twitter, I've never used it, never read a tweet, not interested in anyone enough to follow them either.

You also say you like parts of his charachter and personality, its not just his golf you defend, which are basically the same sorts of charachter and personality you get with your basic flash Harry chav, the very type of person you slate all the time. Doesnt make sense to me really.
If he wins a few PGA strokeplay events Ill give him credit. Anyone else with his sort of rankings over the years should have managed that at the very least, especially as he supposedly prizes winning above all else.
I just dont see this great, fearless golfer with cojones of steel that people seem to imagine him to be. Not in strokeplay anyway.