Is the HC the pinnacle of European club rugby?

I only ask as I’ve just turned down 4 tickets for the HC final, being a passionate rugby fan and the fact that I will be at my Richmond home that weekend I surprised myself by taking this decision but in truth it just doesn’t do anything for me anymore, the competition has lost its sparkle maybe it was too much of a good thing but the HC needs to be freshened up before it destroys itself, give me real club rugby any day of the week instead of this over hyped Competition.

Is it because there are no english teams involved?

No, being a Bath fan I don't support other English teams in the HC apart from Exeter!

82000 clearly think differently as do the prices on Ebay/gumtree for the scum bags selling tickets for a profit.

Hope that get caught and banned from their teams grounds

There is one thread talking about the final and there are about 4 talking about how the HC isn’t as good as it used to be, or how to change it going forward.
Love it.

If you want my personal opinion - well I'll give it anyway.

When a tournament has a beginning and an end (geez sounds like something from the MATRIX), it is much easier to get really stuck into it.

You can see the season building toward a crechendo and ultimately the final comes around and you are excited and looking forward to the conclusion of the thing.

But when a tournamnet is start, stop, intervened by some Aviva/Amlin/Pro 12/top 14 or six Nations, and then it kickstarts again with a few rounds and then stopped again, eventually the climax is just an anticlimax.

I feel the same way about the Super XV these days, when it is interrupted the lustre is lost.

What I do find with myself seeing that I don't support a specific team (although I do have some more favoured) is my interest is much stronger, as I assess the whole compeition and not only from the perspective of one team.

It does bring more enjoyment and satisfaction to me anyway.

Thats an interesting view Bek. I often find the opposite. Because the most you ever play is 2 games in a row before going off to do internationals or domestic leauges it raises the anticipation.

You spend weeks itching for the next match. You get time to savour the memories of the last game and to build up the next game in your head.

Maybe the HC should be turned into a summer competition and then the players could have a winter break?

Summer tours are a waste of time anyway.

Hear, hear BB! Me too.

If it is the pinnacle of European Rugby, then someone should tell those baastards at Fox to grab the live feed of the Final instead of the college lacrosse we get on here at the same time. So phoking annoying!!!!

LB, are you guys not getting the final live?

I suppose we are very fortunate here in SA, Supersport does reseasrch every year to see what sport is the most watched on their pay channel, hence for years now we see most of it live.

Yes the HC is the pinnacle.

First aim is to pick up the domestic title - once you have that the aim is the HC.

Hersh that's quite a poor attitude to have in my opinion. I support all English sides in the HC. I want them all to do well.

Plus nice to see the smaller clubs like Treviso and Edinburgh to shine too.

It's good to challenge one's self against the best the Rabo can offer and that of the French.

red_stag wrote:Thats an interesting view Bek. I often find the opposite. Because the most you ever play is 2 games in a row before going off to do internationals or domestic leauges it raises the anticipation.

You spend weeks itching for the next match. You get time to savour the memories of the last game and to build up the next game in your head.

Stag maybe it is because I analyse a lot of it, I set up my own excell spread sheet which allows me to do season predictor calculations etc.

I find my focus is better suited to one tournamnet at a time, than spreading it around.

This year for example i did it with the six nations, as soon as that was over, I got stuck into the super XV.

Linebreaker wrote:Hear, hear BB! Me too.

If it is the pinnacle of European Rugby, then someone should tell those baastards at Fox to grab the live feed of the Final instead of the college lacrosse we get on here at the same time. So phoking annoying!!!!

Just make a phone call.
They have already hacked your phone.
This is the easiest way to communicate with them.

"Hersh that's quite a poor attitude to have in my opinion. I support all English sides in the HC. I want them all to do well."


Why, most of the English clubs are full of average overseas players (who only care about the money not the club) who take the space and opportunity away from a British player.

HERSH wrote:"Hersh that's quite a poor attitude to have in my opinion. I support all English sides in the HC. I want them all to do well."


Why, most of the English clubs are full of average overseas players (who only care about the money not the club) who take the space and opportunity away from a British player.

And yet all of the English clubs (even Sale) managed to average at least 65% (15 out of 23) English representation in their playing squads over the season

Bored at work HERSH?

Personally, even as an Ulster fan I don't believe the HC is necessarily an accurate representation of ability. You only play like 7 teams to win. Some groups easier than others. Bad luck with injuries for one week can end your chances.

I believe Ulsters standing in the HC is an adequate reflection of their 1st XV ability, and their standing in the Pro12 is an adequate reflection of their squad.

Ulster were lucky with injuries. If one or two key players were injured we mightn't have got out of our group.

That being said, the Irish rivalry will ensure this Final will be an excellent showcase of rugby! A must watch for any rugby fan!

clivemcl wrote:Personally, even as an Ulster fan I don't believe the HC is necessarily an accurate representation of ability. You only play like 7 teams to win. Some groups easier than others. Bad luck with injuries for one week can end your chances.

I believe Ulsters standing in the HC is an adequate reflection of their 1st XV ability, and their standing in the Pro12 is an adequate reflection of their squad.

Ulster were lucky with injuries. If one or two key players were injured we mightn't have got out of our group.

That being said, the Irish rivalry will ensure this Final will be an excellent showcase of rugby! A must watch for any rugby fan!

I disagree Clive, nobody wins a handy HC, Ulster had a pig of a group and had to play Munster away in the QF, Leinster had a handy group but arguably the hardest semifinal possible. Whichever of them wins, they'll most definitely deserve the win.

A good example would be Saints last year, they had a handy run to the final and paid the price.

I really think we need a smiley for "gone fishing"

hongkongcherry, just for you.

HERSH wrote:"Hersh that's quite a poor attitude to have in my opinion. I support all English sides in the HC. I want them all to do well."


Why, most of the English clubs are full of average overseas players (who only care about the money not the club) who take the space and opportunity away from a British player.

Average overseas players? I suppose being a Bath fan I can understand why you think that! I wouldn't call the likes of Castro and Ayerza of Tigers, Brits and Joubert of Saracens,Tongauiha, Mujati of Saints, Evans of Quins as average.

We had a hard road to the Final and if we win, we'll be worthy champions.

But it still not an examination of consistency and depth- no Cup competition ever is. But Cups are better than Leagues- more chance of drama, upsets, underdogs getting unanticipated glory. 'The magic of the Cup'- that hoary old phrase the BBC trot out every round of the FA Cup is just as applicable here.

HERSH, there are plenty of Ulster fans looking for tickets. Maybe your good deed for the day should be take your 4 and sell them on face value

HKC how did Glaws finish lower than Bath?

Notch they were corporate tickets so I don't think I could have done that, enjoy the game

Fairy nuff!

Mickado wrote:

clivemcl wrote:Personally, even as an Ulster fan I don't believe the HC is necessarily an accurate representation of ability. You only play like 7 teams to win. Some groups easier than others. Bad luck with injuries for one week can end your chances.

I believe Ulsters standing in the HC is an adequate reflection of their 1st XV ability, and their standing in the Pro12 is an adequate reflection of their squad.

Ulster were lucky with injuries. If one or two key players were injured we mightn't have got out of our group.

That being said, the Irish rivalry will ensure this Final will be an excellent showcase of rugby! A must watch for any rugby fan!

I disagree Clive, nobody wins a handy HC, Ulster had a pig of a group and had to play Munster away in the QF, Leinster had a handy group but arguably the hardest semifinal possible. Whichever of them wins, they'll most definitely deserve the win.

A good example would be Saints last year, they had a handy run to the final and paid the price.

Yea i agree, that our 1st XV deserve to be in the final. But say for example Pienaar had been injured in the semi and Jackson/humph was kicking with a drop in accuracy, we might have lost. There has no doubt been worthy teams who have slipped up in the groups, QFs etc... due to bad luck with injuries.

To say we are the top two in Europe simply because we played 6/7 of those teams is a bit much. We are certainly up there though, and will provide plenty of quality to entertain neutrals at the final!

HERSH wrote:I only ask as I’ve just turned down 4 tickets for the HC final

In fairness if I was a Bath fan I wouldn't be too interested in the HEC either..... maybe they should bring back the Pilkington cup to give fans of smaller clubs like Hersh something to get excited about.....

Mickado wrote:..........I disagree Clive, nobody wins a handy HC, Ulster had a pig of a group and had to play Munster away in the QF, Leinster had a handy group but arguably the hardest semifinal possible. Whichever of them wins, they'll most definitely deserve the win.

A good example would be Saints last year, they had a handy run to the final and paid the price.

Are you saying you think Saints would not be deserving Euro Champs if they had beaten Leinster? It took a great second half by a great team playing to the best of their ability to beat Saints. At halftime, it was no foregone conclusion that Saints would lose, at least to me.

HERSH, there are plenty of Ulster fans looking for tickets. Maybe your good deed for the day should be take your 4 and sell them on face value OK

I wouldn't hold my breath.

biltongbek wrote:LB, are you guys not getting the final live?

I suppose we are very fortunate here in SA, Supersport does reseasrch every year to see what sport is the most watched on their pay channel, hence for years now we see most of it live.

It has been on in the past but I haven't seen any of it so far this year. Maybe it will just appear on Sunday morning here on ESPN but it's very poorly covered here. Plain, lazy ignorance if you ask me.

clivemcl wrote:

Mickado wrote:

clivemcl wrote:Personally, even as an Ulster fan I don't believe the HC is necessarily an accurate representation of ability. You only play like 7 teams to win. Some groups easier than others. Bad luck with injuries for one week can end your chances.

I believe Ulsters standing in the HC is an adequate reflection of their 1st XV ability, and their standing in the Pro12 is an adequate reflection of their squad.

Ulster were lucky with injuries. If one or two key players were injured we mightn't have got out of our group.

That being said, the Irish rivalry will ensure this Final will be an excellent showcase of rugby! A must watch for any rugby fan!

I disagree Clive, nobody wins a handy HC, Ulster had a pig of a group and had to play Munster away in the QF, Leinster had a handy group but arguably the hardest semifinal possible. Whichever of them wins, they'll most definitely deserve the win.

A good example would be Saints last year, they had a handy run to the final and paid the price.

Yea i agree, that our 1st XV deserve to be in the final. But say for example Pienaar had been injured in the semi and Jackson/humph was kicking with a drop in accuracy, we might have lost. There has no doubt been worthy teams who have slipped up in the groups, QFs etc... due to bad luck with injuries.

To say we are the top two in Europe simply because we played 6/7 of those teams is a bit much. We are certainly up there though, and will provide plenty of quality to entertain neutrals at the final!

I take your point, luck is important in any cup competition (Thank you Wesley Fofana), but you've got to make your own luck.

rodders wrote:

HERSH wrote:I only ask as I’ve just turned down 4 tickets for the HC final

In fairness if I was a Bath fan I wouldn't be too interested in the HEC either..... maybe they should bring back the Pilkington cup to give fans of smaller clubs like Hersh something to get excited about.....

The good old days

Mickado wrote:
A good example would be Saints last year, they had a handy run to the final and paid the price.

Hey hang on they beat us ya bollix!

doctor_grey wrote:

Mickado wrote:..........I disagree Clive, nobody wins a handy HC, Ulster had a pig of a group and had to play Munster away in the QF, Leinster had a handy group but arguably the hardest semifinal possible. Whichever of them wins, they'll most definitely deserve the win.

A good example would be Saints last year, they had a handy run to the final and paid the price.

Are you saying you think Saints would not be deserving Euro Champs if they had beaten Leinster? It took a great second half by a great team playing to the best of their ability to beat Saints. At halftime, it was no foregone conclusion that Saints would lose, at least to me.

I remember sayign at half time that the Leinster v Saints game was not over yet. All those around me thought I was mad, including the one obnoxious Saints fan I meet all day, who was giving it large about ' stupid paddies'.
Needless to say I made sure he knew the change in score as the points rolled in - by the end he was head in hands not even watching the game.

I hasten to add the Saints fans at Milton Keynes and at Ravenhill were top draw - this was just one rotten apple.

rodders wrote:

Mickado wrote:
A good example would be Saints last year, they had a handy run to the final and paid the price.

Hey hang on they beat us ya bollix!

I think we would have had an Ulster-Leinster final last year too if we had managed to do the job in MK:Stadium. Both sides fancied a home draw against Perpignan, Ulster were very confident if they got the away win in the QF they could advance further.

Totally moot point though; history doesn't remember 'if onlys'. And theres several sides this year with 'if-onlys' of their own. Clermont and Edinburgh especially, both unlucky in the semis.

We were over-powered by Saints, so were Perpignan. In the final, they nearly did the same thing again; but Saints met a team who could respond to their power game with some fine rugby and they had no answer when Leinster turned it on in the second half.

Swings and roundabouts.

In the 2010-11 HC - Leinster probably had the toughest ever run to the final.

They had the pool of death - Leinster,Clermont,Saracens,Racing Metro. 3 of those teams were pool winners this season.

Leicester in the quarter finals, Toulouse in the semis,Saints in the final.

So that's 3 of the strongest English sides, the best 2 French sides and the 4th tier team was wealthy French side Racing Metro.

I think Saint, Tigers and Sarries were in the AP playoffs and Toulouse, Clermont and Racing were in the T14 playoffs last year. So 3 of the top 4 in both leagues.
It was a pretty epic run alright.

Mickado in the last 3 seasons - Saints,Sarries and Tigers have all been in the AP playoffs each time.

Saracens were 2010-11 AP champions. Leicester - 2009-10 AP champions. Toulouse - 2010-11 Top 14 champions, Clermont - 2009-10 top 14 champions.

That's a pretty impressive hit list.

biltongbek wrote:

hongkongcherry, just for you.

You are a legend!!

HERSH wrote:HKC how did Glaws finish lower than Bath?

I have absolutely no idea, we just fell apart in the last 6 games so both your sides finished above us!

beshocked wrote:Yes the HC is the pinnacle.

First aim is to pick up the domestic title - once you have that the aim is the HC.

Hersh that's quite a poor attitude to have in my opinion. I support all English sides in the HC. I want them all to do well.

Plus nice to see the smaller clubs like Treviso and Edinburgh to shine too.

It's good to challenge one's self against the best the Rabo can offer and that of the French.

Do you not mean the best, the middle and a lot of the worst thrown in as well?

robbo277 wrote:

beshocked wrote:Yes the HC is the pinnacle.

First aim is to pick up the domestic title - once you have that the aim is the HC.

Hersh that's quite a poor attitude to have in my opinion. I support all English sides in the HC. I want them all to do well.

Plus nice to see the smaller clubs like Treviso and Edinburgh to shine too.

It's good to challenge one's self against the best the Rabo can offer and that of the French.

Do you not mean the best, the middle and a lot of the worst thrown in as well?

No I mean we are challenged by the best the Rabo can offer. The middle and a lot of the worst thrown in aren't much of a challenge.

Well you be hard pressed to described Bath or London Irish as the best the Aviva can offer either. What is true for the Pro12 is true for the Aviva as well

Geoff not when every man and his dog qualifies for the HC in the Rabo.

geoff998rugby wrote:Well you be hard pressed to described Bath or London Irish as the best the Aviva can offer either. What is true for the Pro12 is true for the Aviva as well

And they won't be in the HC next year.

I was only having a laugh though, I don't really want to start this debate back up!

beshocked wrote:Geoff not when every man and his dog qualifies for the HC in the Rabo.

.... or just Bristol?

You can see where this is going, something along the lines of:

"English teams didn't do well in the Heineken Cup because they were always concentrating on the Premiership which is the true pinnacle of European Rugby. We are now rebuilding for next year whilst our national team keeps losing in the 6 Nations to build for the world cup,"

robbo277 wrote:

geoff998rugby wrote:Well you be hard pressed to described Bath or London Irish as the best the Aviva can offer either. What is true for the Pro12 is true for the Aviva as well

And they won't be in the HC next year.

I was only having a laugh though, I don't really want to start this debate back up!

np

Well, listening to Dean Richards on Radio 5 just now he seems to think it is.

yes the HC is the pinnacle of european club rugby...

LeinsterFan4life wrote:yes the HC is the pinnacle of european club rugby...

Money wise, Japanese club rugby is

Kiwireddevil wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:yes the HC is the pinnacle of european club rugby...

Money wise, Japanese club rugby is

... it must therefore be the pinnacle in World rugby.