Murray Really Did Shout "I Hate This Game, I Really Hate It"

During yesterdays loss to Gasquet did Murray shout "I hate this game"? If he didn't apologies as I've got it totally wrong and put words in his mouth. If he did then it's just really, really sad...

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Have just updated this as it is no longer a question. Murray did shout "I hate this game, I really hate it". This is from todays Times (sorry it's PPV so can't provide link)

After two hours and 57 minutes of running, scrapping, grimacing, swearing — “I hate this game, I really hate it,” he screamed — he was undone by the artistry of Gasquet and his own culpability.

Sorry but you are going to far. By your own admittance you don't really know what he said and so you decide to start up your 20+ topic to berate Murray. What's up? Are your usual sources dry so you must have your daily fix somehow?

Think he shouted: "I hate hawkeye". lol

In reference to Gasquets drugs bust:

Gasquet: Got any cocaine on your lips big boy?

Murray: I hate cocaine.

I think he shouted "I ate bad game" - possibly a small dose of food was poisoning was affecting his performance.

Not only was I not there in the stadium, I didn't watch the match on TV either so I can say with some confidence that Murray was shouting "I met Chris Cairns!".

It is well known in tennis circles that Richard Gasquet has a remarkable enthusiasm for the exploits of the controversial Kiwi cricketer and keeps a little doll in his likeness (made entirely out of dried comte cheese) in his hotel room for luck.

I hope this key fact sheds some light on Murray's attempt to break his opponent's focus!

Whats with Hawkeye and Murray/Lendl? Did Murray refuse to date you or what? You have an unimaginable hate for him.

Chill out and get over it.

Jahu wrote:Whats with Hawkeye and Murray/Lendl? Did Murray refuse to date you or what? You have an unimaginable hate for him.

Chill out and get over it.

Actually, having just not watched it again on youtube, I can 120% confirm he shouted "I'm Hawkeye's mate".

aargh 120% again - JHM you are writing unbelievable!

According to the Times he did say I hate this game.

For all the 'concern' expressed about him by fans and detractors alike, I don't think Murray has that bad a time of it on this earth.

he - I'd like to think you are a genuine 'fan' of the sport, and that's why you are here on a tennis forum.

However I simply cannot imagine - if by some chance I had the same near-pathological dislike of a particular player as you seem to have for Andy Murray - that I would find the time & inclination to produce such a plethora of negative articles/posts about him .....

hawkeye is one of the best thread writers in tennis history, Simon Reed looks up to him, this thread on the whole was rated 9.7/10 by rotten tomatoes, flawlessly compiled.

Hahaha, JM never ceases to entertain us.

Hawkeye would do us all a favor and stop right this moment posting any Anti-Murray/Lendl threads. Not a big fan of Murray, but I like him more with every thread of hers about him.

Why did so many choose to disbelieve that Murray said what he said?

Of course you may believe it is not newsworthy (Neil Harman for one would disagree with this) and you may think it is somehow "anti Murray" to mention it, and you may believe he didn't mean to say it but he did say it.

I have never heard a sports star say such a thing whilst competing. Sad if it is true.

You obviously haven't been to many top level golf tournaments !

Yes but we all say "ohhhh I hate this.....xxxx" when we have moments of failing at something, but do we really mean it an hour later, a day later, etc?

He's always been a bit that way, a bit Napoleon Dynamite (How was your day at school Napoleon?", "Worst day of my life, what do you think??") so I wouldn't read too much into it. He was having a very bad day, he may be feeling a bit low right now (especially if he's been struggling with injury for some time.

I criticise him plenty but I wouldn't dive in on this one.

bogbrush

Murray is under no obligation to love tennis. So it is impossible to criticise him if he doesn't. It would just be sad. Maybe like you say it was because he was "having a very bad day". However sometimes people do say what they mean...

I always wonder a bit about tennis players in particular because they start so early it is usually a career that is chosen for them rather than one they choose themselves.

On the flipside it does have to be said that Murray never strikes me as someone who "loves their tennis". Not like say Federer.
Sometimes I wonder how much time he's had to sit back over his career to date and think to himself - "do I even like this sport?". After all what if his mother pushed him into Tennis as SHE liked the game, then when the young Murray shows ability his mother pushes him even more onwards? She seems a steely character to do so. I'm not saying this is the case but you can imagine a scenario where a young player is pushed blindly on with the parents assuming their son/daughter loves the sport when in reality that may be indifferent...an indifference that could turn to lack of desire or even hatred after a few more years? Ala Agassi?
Murray is now a multimillionaire, etc...you have to really love tennis after a few years on circuit with success to keep pushing yourself forwards as others have done. Maybe Murray gets to a point where he feels he's pushed himself hard enough. Anyway, just conjecture, no firm expression thats whats actually happening.

lydian and bb are spot on here in that many top sports stars (as well as mere mortals such as ourselves) proclaim how we might hate a certain activity or hobby, even when we spend years pursuing it.

It would be wrong to read too much into Murray's comment if indeed that's what he said.

But on the other hand there are cases of VERY high achievers who can be very successful whilst also being troubled by all sorts of demons and underlying stress.

No better example in the world of tennis than Andre Agassi.

Interesting stuff about him (and others) in this Guardian piece

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2009/oct/29/andre-agassi-hate-tennis

ps lydian you beat me to it re Agassi but hope you enjoy (if that's the right word !) the linked article all the same

duplicated post

Didnt see that before lags, so thanks for posting it, a very interesting read and links well with this article

Loved two bits from that:
1."In Boardman's case," says William Fotheringham, the Guardian's cycling correspondent, "he liked the winning not the cycling itself, and he drove himself to win."

2. In his autobiography, Agassi describes the sheer difficulty of getting out bed one morning towards the end of his tennis career. "I'm a young man, relatively speaking. Thirty-six. But I wake as if 96. After two decades of sprinting, stopping on a dime, jumping high and landing hard, my body no longer feels like my body. Consequently, my mind no longer feels like my mind."

I would say Murray looks like he's driven to win (like all the top guys) but does he love his sport, or is tennis a means to an end....winning, a sense of affirming oneself, validating oneself. We dont know...but it wouldnt surprise me neither if Andy was to write a book like Andre expressing how much he actually hated tennis.

I am sure he said "I ate Citizen Kane"

Anyhow who gives a sh!t what he says.

HE do you hate Bill Murray?

lags72 wrote:... It would be wrong to read too much into Murray's comment if indeed that's what he said. ...

Except it would form part of a narrative that explains a) his post AO slumps b) his inability to analyse why he loses and to work on them in training c) his inability to play each point on its own merits d) his gloomy demeanour on court e) his resistance / stubbornness to listen to coaches etc.

Hopefully Lendl can reset Murray's attitude (to that shown at the AO 2012 tournament), but Murray does tend to switch to his default psychology.

But can you reset an attitude if the player doesnt enjoy what they do, or have a default negative/cynical mental stance?

lydian wrote:
Loved two bits from that:
1."In Boardman's case," says William Fotheringham, the Guardian's cycling correspondent, "he liked the winning not the cycling itself, and he drove himself to win." ...

Boardman had a creative and thoughtful approach - always thinking how he could go faster. He had a very active mind - technical and not based on superstition and emotion.

Graeme Obree, was one of the greatest characters in British cycling (invented the superman position etc).

And he has certainly made good use of that technical knowledge in launching his own bikes to good success. I've been after one of his carbon-fibre "Pro" bikes for a while now...
Didnt know Obree did that

lydian wrote:But can you reset an attitude if the player doesnt enjoy what they do, or have a default negative/cynical mental stance?

I don't think so, but Murray did show a much more positive attitude at AO 2012. He showed fantastic attitude in Rome 2011. I think some of the best play I have seen from Murray has been at Queens, where sometimes he looked invincible. It's a question of improving the serve and stringing together seven matches in a positive attitude.

The whole Agassi situation is quite complex, and dates back to his childhood days of course, as I remember him discussing during a radio interview about his autobiog (which I can't claim to have read in full)

Whilst not wishing to over-simplify things I'm wondering if - for Agassi at least - it was very much a case of having sufficient talent, focus and motivation to do the business (and with huge success of course) when actually on court but to hate all the other 'stuff' associated with, and pervading, every aspect of the life of a top pro.

Yes he's a bit of a conundrum. Lendl has he work cut out to get into Murray's mind...he wouldnt let Brad in, and only let McLagan work on his body. But its his mind that needs the work...Murray needs to be unafraid to open himself up to Lendl if he wants to push to the summit. At the moment he's kind of stuck at Hilary's Step - can see the summit clearly but is seemingly afraid of taking the steps needed to get there.

Maybe lags...after all for someone who HATED the sport, Agassi sure did achieve alot! You wonder what he could have done had he loved the game!
I always think he should have had at least 4-5 more slams from his early years when he just messed about to be honest. He really could have been right up there in GOAT discussions...after all this is the guy who at 35 yo was pushing prime Fed at USO like no other could do. 35!!!!

I've always believed that nobody (no, not even the Fed in my book) will achieve what Agassi did at such an age. His longevity was truly remarkable, not least the famous comeback from a ranking close to 150 all the way back to Number One again

Sure, for his last Slam title at the AO he had a totally charmed draw in which the highest guy he met was ranked 16 (with none of his other opponents even inside the 30's IIRC) but who's to say that he might not have beaten a top tenner had he been required to ....

After two hours and 57 minutes of running, scrapping, grimacing, swearing — “I hate this game, I really hate it,” he screamed — he was undone by the artistry of Gasquet and his own culpability..

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So what. There's another tournament around the corner.

I suppose one thing is to contrast his attitude to Federer, who seems to truly love playing.

Is it the attitude or the game that causes the other? What I do see is that one guy plays a miserable game that he doesn't seem to enjoy while the other plays a joyful one that he appears to want to do forever.

Yep, pretty much sums it up SuperDB !

(and as the legendary Bill Shankly once said, albeit in a different sporting context : "Football is hardly a matter of life & death ; it's much more important than that")

Murray played really w@nk yesterday especially on break points. I don't see the need to kick him while he's down, especially losing to such a poor player.

I see an awful lot of people reading something deep and meaningful into something that's really not.

Anyone that's focuses their entire life into succeeding at a sport (or anything else really) has days when it doesn't go well, and it's pretty natural to express frustration in this way.

The fact that Murray decides to audibly express it on the court is the only way he's different to a lot of the other robot type players, despite the fact that when things are going badly they no doubt think the exact same thing.

lags72 wrote: ... Agassi ... the famous comeback from a ranking close to 150 all the way back to Number One again ...

Interestingly put - sounds like a Hollywood film waiting to be made.

DJ: with regard to Murray - he has become a multi-millionnaire precisely because tennis as a sport is of interest to "us" - and it is "us" as a collective that pay for it either directly or indirectly. Hence, I cannot be too critical in those interested in analysing Murray and other tennis players, in terms of their psychology and their technical abilities. Some analyse Murray in order to work out why he hasn't already won a slam after his earlier promise and what the likelihood of him winning a slam in future is. Of course, fair enough, to criticise those who post for non-analytical reasons. Anyway this this is just my opinion.

lags72 wrote:You obviously haven't been to many top level golf tournaments !

you make it seem as if that is an enjoyable or normal ting to do....

But there isn't anything in the slightest to analyse about shouting 'I hate this game' on the tennis court.

It's an expression of obvious frustration about the way he's playing. Anyone in any right mind can see that he doesn't literally hate the game.

I have no problem with people looking deeply into his mind when it comes to these things as long as they don't mind people telling them they are completely wrong.

Very fair comment dj.

But perhaps you'd agree that it's also sometimes a matter of exactly when such frustrations are actually expressed. If it's mid-match and in easy earshot of the opponent then it can be counter-productive. Best not let it show - IF you can help it. But very easy for me to say, I admit.

Step forward Mr Inscrutable himself, Bjorn Borg. If you happened to switch on your TV halfway through one of his matches and didn't catch sight of the scoreboard ..... he could be 2 sets up OR 2 sets down. But, looking at his face/mannerisms you'd have absolutely no idea which of the two it was .....

bogbrush wrote:I suppose one thing is to contrast his attitude to Federer, who seems to truly love playing.

Hey - feel Fed's love for the game https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9X48FqmoJI

We none of us know, but I suspect it's Murray's frustration with himself that gets him boiling over.

Other players tend to think it's best to keep an unruffled exterior, Murray seems to really get down on himself and everything when it's not going well, and to do it publicly. I'm a bit self-critical and get down on my self noisily and angrily too so I perhaps have an angle. I can see my son learning those bad habits from me and I hate it and see only a self-destructive aspect to it - it's the first time in my life I've really tried to stop what is really a self-indulgent and unhelpful habit in my view.

It can't be helped by the fact that the weakness of his serve means that his game is on a knife-edge much of the time.

Tsonga is constantly berating himself, in clear Murray fashion, why doesn't hawkeye inclue this in his report?

Bit biased bro

Murray has played over 450+ matches on the ATP tour. He is at #4. Venting due to a match gone bad from his perspective after being a set up, IMVHO, is not an excuse, but a clear statement of frustration with himself.

He will get over it.

Re IceBorg, Lags, wonderful control to push himself beyond limits. Winning W brought a release of pent up emotions.

Josiah Maiestas wrote:... especially losing to such a poor player.

The same player who beat Federer last year, after Federer was up a set, at the same tourney. Poor Gasquet being unnecessarily being maligned.

@BarryStar... Djokovic has broken quite a few racquets, as have many others.

There is a difference between getting mad at yourself for not playing well and saying that you really hate the game. But I admit we have no way of knowing if someone says in a heated moment that they hate the game if they really mean it. Conversley sometimes it takes a heated moment to make people say what they really mean...

laverfan wrote:@BarryStar... Djokovic has broken quite a few racquets, as have many others.

I know that, this is more like it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1BIe35skSU

hawkeye wrote:There is a difference between getting mad at yourself for not playing well and saying that you really hate the game. But I admit we have no way of knowing if someone says in a heated moment that they hate the game if they really mean it. Conversley sometimes it takes a heated moment to make people say what they really mean...

We do know. He doesn't hate the game. He was just incredibly frustrated.

Keep kidding yourself if you want, but it's simply not true.

I remember training for about 5 months through the winter, got myself in the absolute shape of my life and tore a calf muscle which after seeing the physio straight after was told I would run throughout the whole summer season. At that point I swore I hated running and I would never do it again, got home, went to bed in a strop and sulked for a while.

24 hours later you feel differently. It's just frustration, I didn't and I never have hated running. I actually enjoy it.

So what if he did :P I am no fan of Murray, but the heat of the moment can get to you. I shout the same when I lose at Snooker or Tennis.

hawkeye wrote:There is a difference between getting mad at yourself for not playing well and saying that you really hate the game. But I admit we have no way of knowing if someone says in a heated moment that they hate the game if they really mean it. Conversley sometimes it takes a heated moment to make people say what they really mean...

... and you are leaning towards the highlighted part. Does the word 'bias' mean anything, HE? You clearly are speculating!