Football racism

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Walcott#s family are not attending. Oxlade-Chamberlain's family are not attending, Lescott's family also not attending. The foreign office has issued warnings for black and asian fans should take care when going theere. If the bigot's throw out racist insults atthe French, English. Portuguese and other black players, would they be justified in walking and refusing to play?

What is it about football that attracts the lowest common denominator within society?

the day blatter dies will be the day football will change for the better

i mean no offence to football in that statement

Its a tricky one to overcome though in footballing terms. The best you could do to punish a side is really whollop them, with a huge fine, not just £250,000 but more like into the millions, whether that is legal or not i'm not sure. You could also dock a team points or in international terms ban the national side from competitions for a few tournaments or one. That would probably make them think twice about hurling racist abuse, but, unfortunately are they real fans?.

The trouble is it arises in football due to the upbrining and education on the matter. In this country, racism is being stamped out, perhaps not at a rate of nots, but compared to the 70's its been a big step forward. I'm pretty sure that the teaching children get in this country on racism is probably non-existent in certain eastern europeans countries and Spain and Italy also (Tried not to generalise there but couldn't help it). It needs to be tackled from the ground up, the old saying of prevent something rather than finding a cure, it is certainly applicable when related to problems of racism.

So imo in football you can only do so much to limit the effect, whereas if you really want to make a difference, it needs to be tackled by governments in schools so children are not exposed to this dreadful act. When you see these hooligans on the tv you really want to give them a good smack across the face, they're like a different breed of humans, but allot of it is due to upbrining imo.

Why the Euro's are taken to countries with human rights problems and discriminatory offences is beyond me, but the powers in FIFA just love having they're pockets lined don't they. Russia still has racist tendencies but not as bad as the Ukraine or Poland, but then the fact its in Qatar, where women are treated like dirt, massive disparities in wealth and where people are treated like crap is amazing. But, ironically there's quite a bit of wealth in Qatar, more money for the FIFA boys. Blatter talks about bringing the game to nations who have yet to experience it, but it completely over looks the conditions that these people live in and the massive problems in some of these countries with racism and prejudices. I'm not saying the UK is perfect, far from it, but you get the message.

JamesLincs wrote:the day blatter dies will be the day football will change for the better

i mean no offence to football in that statement

will platinni be any better- platini doesnt want any tech coming to the game

Martyr i would suggest that parts of russia are way worse than poland or ukraine.

Black players probably need to make a decision whether or not to play in these tournaments that are hosted by nations who a prone to racism. If they can condition themselves to expect it then it may not be too much of a problem but if not and their self respect comes ahead of the prestige of playing in these tournaments then they should boycott it until the authorities do something about it. If all the black players boycotted the tournaments, it would be interesting what the reactions would be from sponsors and the like.

Guys I honestly think that a big deal is being made before we have a chance to see how bad or not so bad it really is. I would never tell black dudes to not go to ukraine or poland. Why is this coming out just before the event, rather than at the time the countries were given the tourny?

I do think they are years behind, and i do think all nations in UEFA should be making strides to combat racism. Basically if nations arnt following a certain anti racism plan they shouldnt get to host. But point is isnt all this media hulla bullo just to sell papers just before the event.

We dont have the terrys doing this, or england will win, or coles doing that, or rooneys banging that great gran, so we are getting this instead!!

The authorities have probably just accepted that it is part of the game especially in Europe. What esle can they do? If the chucked all the nations out who have racially abused players, there would hardly be any teams left. It is the players that have to make a stand, if they are really offended by the racism that they will receive in these countries.

mystiroakey wrote:I am sure it will be quite safe

However i agree , places like that should be given an anti racism plan if they are given these events and they should have to abide by them

quite safe isnt good enough though......

would you go somewhere if it was only QUITE safe....

Well yeah i would and i do. i would suggest all fans get into groups though and dont instigate anything. most will have a great time out there

martyr_94 wrote:Its a tricky one to overcome though in footballing terms. The best you could do to punish a side is really whollop them, with a huge fine, not just £250,000 but more like into the millions, whether that is legal or not i'm not sure. You could also dock a team points or in international terms ban the national side from competitions for a few tournaments or one. That would probably make them think twice about hurling racist abuse, but, unfortunately are they real fans?.

Ban them from competitions. It happened to English football thanks to the actions of Liverpool fans and set us back about 10+ yrs as a result (possibly causing permanent damage to English football).

Three strikes and you're out (over a defined period, whether that's 1, 3 or 5 yrs I'm not sure), three convictions of permitting racism and you're banned from European competition.

Agree with everything else you said.

mystiroakey wrote:Guys I honestly think that a big deal is being made before we have a chance to see how bad or not so bad it really is. I would never tell black dudes to not go to ukraine or poland. Why is this coming out just before the event, rather than at the time the countries were given the tourny?

Because there's a proven recent history, in both football and society, of racism and bigotry in those countries. I don't think this is being 'blown up' particularly by the media, it's reporting on a serious, genuine and substantiated issue.

I agree, I was aware that there have been reports from these sorts of countries but thanks to more in depth look at the problems from various media outlets, it highlighted how bad the problem really is. Hopefully these people won't actually reach the grounds and that certain people have been 'tagged' so to speak.

Hopefully we will see stadiums full of signing football supporters rather than a group of thugs hurling racist abuse.

mystiroakey wrote:Well yeah i would and i do. i would suggest all fans get into groups though and dont instigate anything. most will have a great time out there

As long as there is no ethnic fans about then there won't be any trouble physical attacks, the most there will be is usual racist chanting that you expect from the poeple in these countries.

Guys, There is a line were these talks become xenaphobic themselves

The UK isnt a very racist country anymore- but if did a report on racism in certain pockets- you could quite easily blow it out of proportion.

If this event was being held in spain- none of these comments would be coming out- even though we know they have more public shows of racism than we are used to,.

We still have this slightly xenophobic feeling towards the eastern block. It doesnt allways help to just say there are different and target them- that in itself can be racist.


By the way i am happy with the warnings,and I would have much rather them coming out with press statements that there will do everything they can to combat racism. But sometimes these talks are more about trying to make us feel superior

I think the Ukraine is quite a racist country.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-18162443

"Millions of people who will be watching will see that Ukraine is represented by a person who does not belong to our race," said Yuri Syrotyuk, whose party is preparing to contest the parliamentary elections later this year.

The vision of Ukraine as a country located somewhere in remote Africa will take root,"


lol- what a retarded statement and yes he is certainly racist. However the simple fact that they picked a black representative shows they are turning the tide


"But his comments were widely condemned in Ukraine by all the mainstream political parties, and celebrities including the boxers Vitaly and Volodymyr Klitschko, and the winner of 2004's Eurovision, Ruslana. "

133 race hate crimes at Ukranian/Polish stadiums in 2010.

Source: Panorama documentary on NOW!

133 race hate crimes at Ukranian/Polish stadiums in 2010.

Source: Panorama documentary on NOW!

tophat that was only poland

Just watched Panorama, great place to send the Euros to Sepp. So England fans going to Ukraine have to deal with police brutality, possible terrorist incidents, white supremacists and high hotel prices. Still could be worse, could be Poland.

If there's one shred of comfort, I have never heard of fan trouble happening at any international games in Ukraine or Poland recently at friendlies or qualifiers. At least that's something. I just hope the security and stewarding is up to scratch which, judging by Panorama, it isn't.

Something eirey about them hitler signaling. It sort of looked cool tho- from an artistic viewpoint, it looked so clean and so regimented in such filth. So ironic that the victim countries next to germany are the ones still affected. The way that they think jews are weak because the population of them died in there country, they look at the old germany as a promisedland.

However they are BNP nuts and neonzi dudes over here. Thing is you go to jail for showing extremist behaviour ...

In these countries that are so poor and so victimised over the years , there seem to have no hope do they. They dont know any better. Being part of this world (as did many from the 70's/80's uk) gives them a sort of peace, a sort of harmony in the violence.

However

When we watch shows like that its hard to work out of its that bad all over- I very much doubt it is. however there are obviously big issues in poland and ukraine.

poor asian dudes that got battered at the end mind, ridiculas scenes . POLICE SHOULD HAVE DEALT WITH IT.

Education, Education, Education. Sorry to use the Bliar phrase but that's the only way to solve or at least tackle the problem. These men are clearly un-educated and schools should be tackling the issue face on, something that clearly looks non-existent to me.

UK schools are tackling the problems of islamaphobia in RS studies, as well as racism and predjudices, that's what is needed in these countries suffering as you say from the effect of Germany.

maybe just maybe(playing the devils advocate) germany should help em out abit!

But anyway the police are obviously still from the same stock, so it has to come from eductaion as you say. Get the new generation thinking differently. The thing is these footy fans dont like football, they like the tribal eliment of it- being part of something when the alternatyive is so mundane.

You would hope having a footy tourny there of high calibre would teach them the joys of multicultural sport!

I am amazed them black footy players still play in the league. But then if they all left they would only be in a worse place.

top hat its exactly what I proposed in a post here earlier today, then they will hopefully think twice when the country they are 'supporting' won't be able to attend the major tournaments.

mystiroakey wrote:tophat that was only poland

Scary, and Ukraine's much worse from experience.

While I'm not a fan of Blatter, the Euros are a UEFA tournament, not FIFA

This issue is a sympton of a wider problem which does involve FIFA though and of which Blatter is a primary orchestrator.

Duty281 wrote:Just watched Panorama, great place to send the Euros to Sepp. So England fans going to Ukraine have to deal with police brutality, possible terrorist incidents, white supremacists and high hotel prices. Still could be worse, could be Poland.

If there's one shred of comfort, I have never heard of fan trouble happening at any international games in Ukraine or Poland recently at friendlies or qualifiers. At least that's something. I just hope the security and stewarding is up to scratch which, judging by Panorama, it isn't.

The thing is that the authorities in places like Poland and Ukraine have the same attitude as Monsieur Platini and even Uncle Sepp, they don't see the racism as a problem. So that is why they have no reservations about handing the likes of Poland and Ukraine tournaments like Euro 2012. for e.g In the Panorama programme one of the officials was asked about the nazi salutes made by the crowds, he said they were not nazi salutes but they were just pointing to the opposition, this is evidence that racism is not a problem in these places.

If ethnic fans don't want end up like those asian fans who were beaten up by their own supporters, then they had better take Sol's Campbell's advice and don't go anywhere near places like Poland and Ukraine at any time.

In terms of stamping out racism in this country in relation to football, the main thing that has happened is that there are laws in place to force people to behave differently for eg racist chanting is not permitted in this country and a person can be removed from the ground if they are caught. It does not necessarily mean that poeple's attitudes have changed at all because more than likely in a different setting that racist behaviour would still happen but in a different way.

In countries like Poland and Ukraine, racism is at the very core of their socieity, people identify and sympathise with the racists cause, so it is unlikely that it will ever change in places such as this. This is why they should never be forced to have to come in contact with people of other races via tournaments such as Euro 2012, they should be left alone.

However the most alarming thing in Panorama last night was that there were even black players playing over there even though their fans were embarrassed by the fact that they had black players in their team. The fans even aim racist chants at these players who play for their teams. Why oh why as a black player would you put yourself through that? Crazy.

Dond it will change and i am very certain of that. Ukraine and poland are on the up- i am sure over 50% of the population will be very embarrased by the 'ultras'.

Your views on this topic are kinda xenophobic dude. They are just people, our country was in the same position in the 80's. Change can and will happen

mystiroakey wrote:Dond it will change and i am very certain of that. Ukraine and poland are on the up- i am sure over 50% of the population will be very embarrased by the 'ultras'.

Your views on this topic are kinda xenophobic dude. They are just people, our country was in the same position in the 80's. Change can and will happen

So we can't criticise racists for fear of being racist ourselves? That's the height of ridiculousness.

you cant critize a nation because of there racist element- you cant and shouldnt generalize and say things like these countries will never change and should be left alone. This is quite clear dude.


"This is why they should never be forced to have to come in contact with people of other races via tournaments such as Euro 2012, they should be left alone."

mystiroakey wrote:you cant critize a nation because of there racist element- you cant and shouldnt generalize and say things like these countries will never change and should be left alone. This is quite clear dude.


"This is why they should never be forced to have to come in contact with people of other races via tournaments such as Euro 2012, they should be left alone."

You can if that nation doe snothing about their large racist element. You either act against racism or you condone it. No middle ground.

Sorry Az life isnt and racism isnt that simple. The countries need help and many within those countries are trying to do there upmost to combat racism. My suggestion was that no country should get a multicultural tourny unless there have clear guidlines to combat racism. Uefa and fifa are not doing enough. And they should be critized, and so should the racists within the eastern block countries. But nothing is gonna change if we just isolate these countries

mystiroakey wrote:Dond it will change and i am very certain of that. Ukraine and poland are on the up- i am sure over 50% of the population will be very embarrased by the 'ultras'.

Your views on this topic are kinda xenophobic dude. They are just people, our country was in the same position in the 80's. Change can and will happen

Mr Oakey. In fairness your positivity on this matter is welcomed but we have to be realistic. In this country ethnic people came over here to live after being invited by the government, The NF etc were not happy at all and it was a dangerous time for ethnics but the natives in time realised the ethnics were not the animals that they thought initially and in general different races get on with each other in ths country now. However in places like Poland and Ukraine, they will never live with people of differnent races, so they will always hold their blinkered views. They will continue to instantly hate someone who happens not to be from what they view as a master race, this is why it is not the enviromnent for a tournament like Euro 2012.

mystiroakey wrote:Sorry Az life isnt and racism isnt that simple. The countries need help and many within those countries are trying to do there upmost to combat racism. My suggestion was that no country should get a multicultural tourny unless there have clear guidlines to combat racism. Uefa and fifa are not doing enough. And they should be critized, and so should the racists within the eastern block countries. But nothing is gonna change if we just isolate these countries

The country has elected leaders who are well aware how racism is viewed in most civilised countries. That they choose to sit on their hands is telling. Of course FIFA and UEFA have questions to answer for staging such a tournament in an obviously backward and uncivilised country. No wonder they were so quick to hand over their jewish population in the 1940s.

They should be isolated until they learn and accept civilised behaviour.

What really annoys me Dond, is that Uefa has missed a trick.

The problems should have been highlighted before they won the bid- Uefa should state all nations hosting tournies need to strike up a mandate to combat racism at least within 'football' as part of the bid.

Why are we getting all this coming out just before the tourny- its to create a media frenzy and to sell papers!

Its so sad that football is the one thing that can bring us all together and yet we get blatters comments on the subject like 'dont be gay then' or just shake hands- its beyond belief

You saw the link I posted here (or on the other topic) aout the Eurovision. Those views were said by a politician who was elected, therefore a lot of people share his views.

TSC wrote:You saw the link I posted here (or on the other topic) aout the Eurovision. Those views were said by a politician who was elected, therefore a lot of people share his views.

TSC did you read my reply- i think you should read the link again.

The said politician came out with that ridiculas statemen/sentimentt- but all the opposing parties said it was nonsense, and so did many other top ukraine sportsmen. The racist party is not in power at present either, and hiopefully never will be. The fact that they picked a multicultural representative prooves that the country is trying to move forward

mystiroakey wrote:What really annoys me Dond, is that Uefa has missed a trick.

The problems should have been highlighted before they won the bid- Uefa should state all nations hosting tournies need to strike up a mandate to combat racism at least within 'football' as part of the bid.

Why are we getting all this coming out just before the tourny- its to create a media frenzy and to sell papers!

Its so sad that football is the one thing that can bring us all together and yet we get blatters comments on the subject like 'dont be gay then' or just shake hands- its beyond belief

Can't disagree with anything you say here Mr Oakey. The telling thing is Uefa don't really see the racism as a problem, which is probably why no concerns were raised at the time of them wining the bid. Panorama in particular do have a habit of coming out with stuff just before a major event and yes some of it is just to get viewers and sell papers. But in this instance what has been highlighted is a real concern. Maybe if the police over there were more proactive in stopping the chants and attacks, people may feel a bit more safe, but from what has been highlighted even the police will be a problem as well. What do we do? just hope no one is killed I suppose.

mystiroakey wrote:

TSC wrote:You saw the link I posted here (or on the other topic) aout the Eurovision. Those views were said by a politician who was elected, therefore a lot of people share his views.

TSC did you read my reply- i think you should read the link again.

The said politician came out with that ridiculas statemen/sentimentt- but all the opposing parties said it was nonsense, and so did many other top ukraine sportsmen. The racist party is not in power at present either, and hiopefully never will be. The fact that they picked a multicultural representative prooves that the country is trying to move forward

I did and I really don't care how many top sportsmen say it, the fact is the public voted for this guy. He was voted in by people who support his views. And it was obviously racist; he can't say it wasn't.

TSC you are concentrating on the negatives. maybe you should think about what the oppsoing parties said on the subject.


I am happy for you to bring the problems of racism in ukranie and it is clearly highlighted with what the spokesman from the far right freedom party said however the major mainstream parties condemed his statements.

mystiroakey wrote:TSC you are concentrating on the negatives. maybe you should think about what the oppsoing parties said on the subject.


I am happy for you to bring the problems of racism in ukranie and it is clearly highlighted with what the spokesman from the far right freedom party said however the major mainstream parties condemed his statements.

Yeah, I suppose so. There will always be a racist "minority" in every country (even we've got a party); it seems to be a hard thing to get rid of. The thing is, there are positives for the Ukraine and Poland, but after what was shown last night (and said) I can see there being trouble (I never saw Panorama last night but I saw what was on the News). They do appear to be doing something about it (how much is debatable) although it is questionable whether they should have allowed a Euro's to go there.

I hope it goes well though.

watch the panorma on the iplayer- it was a great watch. Obviously it concentrates on the worst of it. But it is somewhat eye opening.

mystiroakey wrote:you cant critize a nation because of there racist element- you cant and shouldnt generalize and say things like these countries will never change and should be left alone. This is quite clear dude.


"This is why they should never be forced to have to come in contact with people of other races via tournaments such as Euro 2012, they should be left alone."

So the western world was wrong to boycott SA during/because of apartheid?

Problem is Oakey, you're making it sound like an unfair portrayal of a tiny minority of Ukranians that we're drawing conclusions from. That isn't the case.

The reporter on Panorama visited multiple stadiums, all had large far right racist groups dominating the stadium - so straightaway that's a country wide indicator. Then, do demonstrate that this isn't a social/economic issue (i.e. just the poor and uneducated classes) a very senior spokesman then came on and defended it with that ludicrous statement about them not being Nazi salutes put simply pointing at the other supporters. Furthermore, the face of authority and the law - the police, stand by and watch because they don't care.

Never could you have a clearer indication that racism is ingrained, and permitted, throughout the society of the countries features and that nobody (whether the elite or the masses) sees it as a problem or has any interest in solving it.

We boycott and embargo countries all the time whose actions are considered an afront to our values, this is no different.

Nope i am not at all. I am questioning peoples comments that we should just disclude nations for being a certain way- that in its self is racism.


The sad truth and irony of your aparthied comments is that it is still worse in SA than it is in ukraine.

The black population are still massively underpaid and undervalued on the whole. They live a completly different life to there white neighbours

This is all about understanding and as i have mentioned before UEFA have missed a trick, this racism problem should have been highlighted during the bid for the cup

mystiroakey wrote:Nope i am not at all. I am questioning peoples comments that we should just disclude nations for being a certain way- that in its self is racism.


The sad truth and irony of your aparthied comments is that it is still worse in SA than it is in ukraine.

The black population are still massively underpaid and undervalued on the whole. They live a completly different life to there white neighbours

This is all about understanding and as i have mentioned before UEFA have missed a trick, this racism problem should have been highlighted during the bid for the cup

In fairness Mr Oakey, its not racism when it said that these countries such as Poland and Ukraine should not be permitted to host events like Euro 2012 and should be disengaged. It is not based on their race, it is based on their behaviour towards other races. This is the crucial point. The intolerance that they show towards other races is what should have disqualified them from hosting these tournaments.

Maybe UEFA should have rejected their bid outright because of the racism they have in their countries, then this would not have been an issue today. Once they see they are being left out, it may encourage the authorities in those countries to make a better effort to educate their people about other races, which may lessen the hatred they have for them.

mystiroakey wrote:TSC you are concentrating on the negatives. maybe you should think about what the oppsoing parties said on the subject.


I am happy for you to bring the problems of racism in ukranie and it is clearly highlighted with what the spokesman from the far right freedom party said however the major mainstream parties condemed his statements.

oakey

You sound just like Pik Botha did circa 1985 in Pretoria.